Article: Quit Sleeping on EJ Manuel

[scribo]

 

I'm hoping EJ wins the job in camp as it would be the best outcome for the organization as a whole. This should be a real competition in camp as the article points out, the job won't be given to him. Rex and Roman will have the final say in a few months and I trust them to make the best call for the offense. It wouldn't be shocking to see him win the job, nor would it be shocking to see him finish third.

Why is EJ winning the job better for the franchise than Taylor winning the job? Finding which one is best and putting him in a position to succeed is what's best for the Bills.

[OCinBuffalo]

Are you so insecure about EJ that nobody can have anything but a positive opinion of him? Goodness some of you are so sensitive over this kid.

Yeah, asking for specific, objective standards == me being insecure?

 

I now doubt you know what the words "objective", or "standard" or "sample size" mean. Your post above is the reason for my doubt.

 

Opinion? Opinion doesn't enter into it unless we all of the same opinion, which, just happens to be the defintion of the word "standard". Hooray! When we all agree on the distance of a foot, it's a standard. Congratulations, you've just accessed feature #1 of TBD: you've learned something you didn't know!

 

I am asking for the objective standards that were used to put EJ at the bottom of 3 QBs.

 

That's not even in the same zip code as insecurity, or bravdo, or despair, or elation, or sensitivity, or callousness. Do you know why?

Edited April 2, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[BuffaloFan68]

All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year.

[scribo]

All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year.

True story. Bets on how far Derek Carr's stock drops this coming season under Downing's tutelage?

[OCinBuffalo]

All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year.

Oh my, is that the beginnings of an objective measure? Or, perhaps a dependent variable you've identifed?

 

Stop being insecure! Or, since we are apparently speaking retard in this thread: stop being elated!

[Bangarang]

Yeah, asking for specific, objective standards == me being insecure?

 

I now doubt you know what the words "objective", or "standard" or "sample size" mean. Your post above is the reason for my doubt.

 

Opinion? Opinion doesn't enter into it unless we all of the same opinion, which, just happens to be the defintion of the word "standard". Hooray! When we all agree on the distance of a foot, it's a standard. Congratulations, you've just accessed feature #1 of TBD: you've learned something you didn't know!

 

I am asking for the objective standards that were used to put EJ at the bottom of 3 QBs.

 

That's not even in the same zip code as insecurity, or bravdo, or despair, or elation, or sensitivity, or callousness. Do you know why?

Are we going to pretend like you weren't going to just tell him how wrong his opinion was anyway?

 

I can post all the metrics and advanced metrics that could back up such an opinion. Or I could refer to the game film and use that. In the end it's always shot down and the same "it's only been 14 games yada yada yada" gets thrown around.

 

The guy thinks EJ is the 3rd best QB and you want him to break it down and explain why as if he owes you an explanation. Get over yourself.

 

People think he sucks. Others think he's going

To be good. Others are reserving judgement. Everyone is going to have an opinion and in the end we're all doing the same thing and that's waiting to see what happens.

[Deranged Rhino]

Why is EJ winning the job better for the franchise than Taylor winning the job? Finding which one is best and putting him in a position to succeed is what's best for the Bills.

 

There's no question you're correct. The most important thing for the team is to find a QB who can get the job done, whether it be EJ or Meh or Taylor. I'm excited for camp because I do think it'll be an honest to god competition at the position. The coaches aren't married to any of these guys, and the way the team is built, they're going to pick the guy that helps them win games now regardless of anything else. But that said, there's not really a question in my mind that EJ being that guy would ultimately be the best thing for the organization (not that I think it's the likely outcome, just that it's the best).

 

My reasoning behind that is because the only way EJ wins the job is if he takes a major step forward in his development from what we've seen in 14 games. I don't think he played all that poorly in those 14 games, but he didn't win me over either. He played like a young QB playing behind a terrible line in a questionable scheme. From a physical standpoint he has everything you'd want in a QB, and for moments he has put them all together (handful of comeback wins and almost-wins spring to mind) but he hasn't ever done so consistently.

 

I don't think Cassel is a great QB by any means, but he's as good (if not better) than Orton. The coaches know he's the safest choice to play the role of distributor/game manager for this team which is why I believe it'll take a strong performance from EJ to win the job. I don't think Roman will give him the job if he looks anywhere close to how he looked in camp last year. This team wants to win now, and they're looking for the lowest risk guy at the position. If EJ can prove to be that, he has far better tools than Matt and has a much bigger upside. For the franchise, considering the investment made by taking him in the first round, and his contract, that's the best case scenario. He'd become a young and relatively cheap QB who can help the team win for the next three year window they have with the D and McCoy (not to mention Watkins on a rookie deal). If he can take that step, the Bills have a young and cheap (cap wise, for a little while longer at least) answer at the position that's plagued them the most over the past 15 years.

 

Of course everything I said (barring the investment by the club) about EJ is true of Taylor. Only Taylor is even more of an unknown. It's certainly possible he took advantage of his time behind Flacco and rounded out his game. He's had what, four passes in the NFL? If he were to win the job in camp it would take a huge effort (and be fun to watch) where he absolutely leaves no doubt in the coaches mind that he's the best guy they have. He's fairly cheap as well, even with the escalators built in should he become the starter. If that were to happen it'd be fantastic for the Bills. I wouldn't complain.

[Buffwagonscircled]

Haha, so true.

I'd also add, every though I think he sucks, I'd love to wrong.

 

Alex Smith had a season of 48 % and a few years ago had a season of 70%.

Why do we have to make snap judgments on young Qbs?

 

You might want to do some research first. Flacco's rookie year stats are almost identical to EJ's rookie year.

There was a time when fans and media questioned if the Ravens could even go far with Flacco. But hindsight allows everyone to act like they thought he was a franchise qb right from the start.

Stats don't mean anything. Joe Flacco's rookie year wasn't spectacular but he again showed glimpses of being a franchise QB and at least didn't have accuracy issues and had decent footwork. EJ has accuracy problems and has not shown anything in 14 starts Edited April 2, 2015 by Buffwagonscircled

[HamSandwhich]

 

I'm hoping EJ wins the job in camp as it would be the best outcome for the organization as a whole. This should be a real competition in camp as the article points out, the job won't be given to him. Rex and Roman will have the final say in a few months and I trust them to make the best call for the offense. It wouldn't be shocking to see him win the job, nor would it be shocking to see him finish third.

Who is "the Bill?"

[BackInDaDay]

i think EJ's accuracy issues were related to his hesitation to throw receivers open, instead of scanning for a receiver who had gotten enough seperation to.gave him the confidence to throw the ball. by the time he commits to his throw, he tends to hurry his delivery to make up for the split second he needed to decide to throw or move on. he needs to gain confidence in throwing to 'covered' men.. then his timing will improve, and so will his accuracy. they have to move him around.. get him into the game.. and he has to challenge himself to try things he's not comfortable doing. he'll either develop a feel for this, or he won't.. but if they try to hide his deficiencies, rather than let him work through them, he won't improve.

[OCinBuffalo]

Are we going to pretend like you weren't going to just tell him how wrong his opinion was anyway?

 

I can post all the metrics and advanced metrics that could back up such an opinion. Or I could refer to the game film and use that. In the end it's always shot down and the same "it's only been 14 games yada yada yada" gets thrown around.

 

The guy thinks EJ is the 3rd best QB and you want him to break it down and explain why as if he owes you an explanation. Get over yourself.

 

People think he sucks. Others think he's going

To be good. Others are reserving judgement. Everyone is going to have an opinion and in the end we're all doing the same thing and that's waiting to see what happens.

Get over myself...for what? Being objective, and patient, in the face of staggering idiocy, like telling me asking for objective standards = insecurity?

 

People thinking EJ sucks, or going to be good: provide objective standards, how you applied them to EJ, and falsify them by showing how applying them to other QBs produce expected results, or STFU, because nobody here gains anything from anally extracted opinions.

 

The people who are reserving judgement, if they are actually reserving it, and not simply incapable of forming it, are: wise. We don't have the raw data required for sound analysis, period.

 

Metrics? You? I highly doubt it. You are already struggling with the concept of obective standard. As a metric cannot be created without first understanding that concept? No chance. And, what is an "advanced metric", exactly? Is that like next year's sales projections? They are "advanced" because they come after this year's, or is it the other way around? Um, no. A metric:

....is a metric, is a metric.

 

You would know this, if you could in fact post some, "advanced" , or otherwise.

 

Um, this is a message board, and unlike other team's garbage boards, we actually, yes, do in fact expect you to defend your argument here. We expect posters to respect our time, and not waste it, with poorly, or not, thought out posts. Look: I wasn't kidding when I said I wanted to know his methodology. I've been working on one for quite some time(and if you haven't noticed yet, I am an expert in this stuff). If this guy's beaten me to it: by all means, then let's hear it.

 

That is why we come to TBD. Why would we come here if all we wanted was to hear our own opinion? You can do that in your room, all by yourself, or on youtube. No. Feature #1 of TBD is hearing things you don't know, or didn't consider, or are just flat wrong about, and refining your thinking. That can only be accommplished by other posters reading your posts, and responding.

 

QED

My response = how did you arrive at that conclusion? Because I'd love to know if there is a real methodology behind his answer.

 

EDIT: and, I'm quite pleased that was my 7,777th post. My 6,666th was trivial.

Edited April 2, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[Bills Fan888]

Cue the "yeah but we knew he was going to be a project" posts.

 

If you're a top 20 pick and after 2 years you're still a bottom tier player, what does that tell us?

It tells us that he needs to show something his third year.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2580/drew-brees

 

Look at Drew Brees his first two years. The third year is where the excuses run out.

[GunnerBill]

Even if the defense holds onto those leads, EJ doesn't make the playoffs, therefore does not win two playoff games.

Comparing him to Flacco just by using the stat sheet is not accurate.

Actually if we hold those 3 leads we do make the play-offs in 2013. 6-10 becomes 9-7 and we would have beaten the 9-7 Chargers out on conference play as they gorged on a weak NFC East.

 

I don't think it actually detracts from your fundamental point and we would almost certainly have been 1 and done but still...

[FireChan]

Actually if we hold those 3 leads we do make the play-offs in 2013. 6-10 becomes 9-7 and we would have beaten the 9-7 Chargers out on conference play as they gorged on a weak NFC East.

 

I don't think it actually detracts from your fundamental point and we would almost certainly have been 1 and done but still...

What were the 3 games? I only remember Atlanta.

[Dorkington]

So is Tyrod this year's Tuel?

[scribo]

So is Tyrod this year's Tuel?

I get where you're going with that. But how could anyone logically justify excitement over Tuel? He went undrafted for a reason. Tyrod had at least three teams seriously wanting him a month ago. Ravens fans knew they had a legit option if Flacco went down. Kubiak knew it, too, and he wanted to bring Tyrod with him to Denver.

Edited April 2, 2015 by scribo

[Dorkington]

I get where you're going with that. But how could anyone logically justify excitement over Tuel? He went undrafted for a reason. Tyrod had at least three teams seriously wanting him a month ago. Ravens fans knew they had a legit option if Flacco went down. Kubiak knew it, too, and he wanted to bring Tyrod with him to Denver.

Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Dorkington

[BuffaloHokie13]

Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something.

Here's an endorsement from a Ravens legend

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5a6qHLhBE

[Gordio]

I'd be fine with it. I want the Bills to win. I don't give a crap who the QB is. I just think giving up on EJ is premature.

 

 

Noone is giving up on Manuel but this year he needs to earn it. There is no excuses for him anymore. This is his third year in the league & this team is ready to win now. If he can't beat out Matt cassel & Tyron Taylor, he probably doesn't have much of a future in the NFL.

Haha, so true.

 

I'd also add, every though I think he sucks, I'd love to wrong.

 

Alex Smith had a season of 48 % and a few years ago had a season of 70%.

 

Why do we have to make snap judgments on young Qbs?

 

You might want to do some research first. Flacco's rookie year stats are almost identical to EJ's rookie year.

 

There was a time when fans and media questioned if the Ravens could even go far with Flacco. But hindsight allows everyone to act like they thought he was a franchise qb right from the start.

 

 

True but in His second year in the league he threw for 63% completion %, $3,600 yards & 21 tds against 10 ints. Where EJ played 4 games in his 2nd year & was then benched for Kyle Orton. I am pretty sure the Ravens knew they had their franchise QB by the end of year 2.

[scribo]

Hm, there was practically no news/talk of Tyrod locally while he was on the team, and not even a blip when he left. Guess local media/fans here suck or something.

Well, I also work in Maryland, and I saw plenty from fans and local media. Here is a sampling:

 

- Ravens backup QB Tyrod Taylor ready if needed

- Tyrod Taylor Impressing In Training Camp

- Flacco appears unhappy with the Ravens use of Taylor

- Will Taylor be Ravens backup QB next season?

- Taylor understands he'll face competition in final year of contract (note he won that competition)

- Taylor ready to make the most of final preseason start

- Tyrod Taylor visiting Buffalo Bills, Ravens remain interested, sources say

- Quarterback Tyrod Taylor Chooses Bills Over Broncos

 

 

Here's an endorsement from a Ravens legend

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5a6qHLhBE

Yes, this created a lot of buzz throughout Ravens fans. When your team's captain, head coach and OC all sing one guy's praises...

Edited April 2, 2015 by scribo

[Beerball]

The reason why people have given up on EJ when he hasn't even started a whole season of games yet is because he hasn't shown anything that even resembles a franchise QB. There have been no glimpses of anything that says that he is the guy. Other QB's that have turned into franchise QBs have at least shown glimpses in less time than it has taken EJ. Not every Qb but a lot of them of them show signs that they have what it takes. This is not the case with EJ. Everything that we have seen from EJ at this point tells me that we have already seen his ceiling. There is nothing in his game that says he could even be the next Joe Flacco much less a guy like Aaron Rodgers

As with most absolute declarations you're incorrect IMO. Manuel has shown flashes, not enough for sure, but they were there for most to see.

[Doc]

Tyrod Taylor has literally shown nothing in the NFL over his 4 years. Why anyone would think he's above EJ is beyond comprehension, other than he was a backup on the Ravens and the Ravens won a SB a couple years ago, and he's a shiny new toy. Hell I'd even say that Cassel isn't even the clear #1 as he's had just 2 good seasons out of his 10.

[stevewin]

All of our QBs regressed last year thanks to Todd Downing. Look back at what Todd Downing (TD) did with Matt Stafford in 2013 - worst year ever. Our QBs are automatically better with TD gone. Orton was absolutely terrible by the end of the year.

I remember EJ's first year there were articles about how Hackett was intent on changing these details in EJ's footwork, and it was so obvious EJ wasn't comfortable at all in what they were asking him to do - and it was obvious Hackett was being obstinate that it be done his way. I kept thinking that Hackett should be more concerned initially with coaching the position at a high level and less about obsessing about minutiae like which half step should be taken where. All I ever wanted to see from EJ was for him to just rip the ball, he always seemed like he was overthinking everything.

 

I think EJs biggest challenge to winning the job back this year could be winning back guys like Woods and Watkins. They really seemed like they quit on him last year and no longer had any faith in him - he's going to have to come in and win them over and convince them that they can now trust and believe in him as being 'the guy'.

[Beerball]

Tyrod Taylor has literally shown nothing in the NFL over his 4 years. Why anyone would think he's above EJ is beyond comprehension, other than he was a backup on the Ravens and the Ravens won a SB a couple years ago, and he's a shiny new toy. Hell I'd even say that Cassel isn't even the clear #1 as he's had just 2 good seasons out of his 10.

Your first sentence is the answer to your question in the second.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Cue the "yeah but we knew he was going to be a project" posts.

 

If you're a top 20 pick and after 2 years you're still a bottom tier player, what does that tell us?

 

1)that >50% of draft picks in the 2nd half of the 1st round don't work out, and maybe you're one of them

2)that QB who do work out, including QB drafted in the bottom half of the first round, sometimes take 2-5 years to develop and you haven't had those years yet

3)that your team should immediately throw you in the trash after 14 games because impatient fans say so

 

One of those choices is positive.

 

Why are people so determined to tout outcomes that are negative outcomes for the Bills? It's not as if the team (this year) did nothing to acquire other choices at QB in a timely way prior to preseason.

[Gugny]

 

 

Noone is giving up on Manuel but this year he needs to earn it. There is no excuses for him anymore. This is his third year in the league & this team is ready to win now. If he can't beat out Matt cassel & Tyron Taylor, he probably doesn't have much of a future in the NFL.

 

 

I am 100% onboard with saying that he needs to earn it and that there are no excuses. I do, however, think he has a future in the NFL, whether or not he seals the deal with Buffalo.

[What a Tuel]

Joe Flacco went to the AFCCG his rookie year and lead his team to win 8 of their last 10 games to clinch a playoff berth. He was also the first rookie in NFL history to win two playoff games.

 

Research!

 

If you are going to claim research, you should probably include stats in his rookie playoff run.

 

Joe Flacco had a combined 437 yds 2 td (1 passing, 1 rushing) and 3 ints in that playoff run. (3 games)

 

Completion %? 39.1 50.0 and 43.3 respectively

 

While I agree playoff runs boost people's perception of a QB's abilities, 4 straight playoff eliminations will also cast doubt. That's why there were always questions about Flacco and whether he was an elite QB. All the way up to after he won the Super Bowl, and people even then criticized his huge payday. I can't imagine people were throwing around "Franchise QB" during these first couple years, but he eventually proved he could be a legitimate NFL QB, and EJ will have to do the same. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. As long as our GM has his head clear and keeps his eyes open for our next QB, we have no incentive to run anyone out of town.

 

Wish NFL Rewind went back that far. I'd love to check out his rookie season again.

 

I booted up the first game in 2009 Baltimore against Kansas City, and a couple things stood out.

 

He has a big arm, and guns it in there.

 

The Baltimore o-line seems to be outstanding, I wonder what they were ranked that year, the Chiefs D seemed to be pretty bad this game.

 

He has a couple throws that would have people yelling that he is trying to kill his WR's

 

He had a couple throws that were behind the WR, or 2 feet above their heads

 

He had a nice TD pass that was dropped by the WR

 

Overall, I don't think EJ was playing at Flaccos 2009 level in 2014, and probably 2013, but I think Flacco had some help. He had all day sometimes. Bottom line is, who ever is under center, we need to set them up to succeed.

Edited April 2, 2015 by What a Tuel

[BuffaloHokie13]

Tyrod Taylor has literally shown nothing in the NFL over his 4 years. Why anyone would think he's above EJ is beyond comprehension, other than he was a backup on the Ravens and the Ravens won a SB a couple years ago, and he's a shiny new toy. Hell I'd even say that Cassel isn't even the clear #1 as he's had just 2 good seasons out of his 10.

If EJ is on the Ravens for the past 4 years, does he see the field? There are people who are optimistic about Tyrod because he is an exceptional athlete with a decent arm who came out as a project and was given 4 years to learn without being tossed to the wolves. It also says something to me that he has the confidence to bet on himself and take less money for an opportunity to start instead of taking more money to follow his OC to Denver and back up Peyton Manning. Does that mean he is definitively better than anyone else on the team? No. But to say that the organization is better off if EJ wins than Tyrod is funny given they're practically the same age. And to hold the fact that he was a backup to Flacco for his entire rookie contract against him is just silly.

 

I have been consistent in saying I will be happy if either young guy steps up and makes strides towards being a solid starter, and I maintain that, but I don't think it's right to write either off before we see them in the same system on the same field with the same players.

[Gugny]

 

If you are going to claim research, you should probably include stats in his rookie playoff run.

 

Joe Flacco had a combined 437 yds 2 td (1 passing, 1 rushing) and 3 ints in that playoff run.

 

Completion %? 39.1 50.0 and 43.3 respectively

 

While I agree playoff runs boost people's perception of a QB's abilities, 4 straight playoff eliminations will also cast doubt. That's why there were always questions about Flacco and whether he was an elite QB. All the way up to after he won the Super Bowl, and people even then criticized his huge payday. I can't imagine people were throwing around "Franchise QB" during these first couple years, but he eventually proved he could be a legitimate NFL QB, and EJ will have to do the same. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. As long as our GM has his head clear and keeps his eyes open for our next QB, we have no incentive to run anyone out of town.

 

Wish NFL Rewind went back that far. I'd love to check out his rookie season again.

 

I booted up the first game in 2009 Baltimore against Kansas City, and a couple things stood out.

 

He has a big arm, and guns it in there.

 

The Baltimore o-line seems to be outstanding, I wonder what they were ranked that year, the Chiefs D seemed to be pretty bad this game.

 

 

Overall, I don't think EJ was playing at Flaccos 2009 level in 2014, and probably 2013, but I think Flacco had some help. He had all day sometimes. Bottom line is, who ever is under center, we need to set them up to succeed.

I've always thought that comparing EJ to Flacco was pretty accurate. Mostly because they've both shown that CAN be very good, but neither has shown that he can be very good CONSISTENTLY. The biggest difference is that Flacco has had a hell of a lot more time to prove/disprove himself.

[ProcessAccepted]

How great would it be to see Taylor win the competition and light it up this season? I love the overlooked, forgotten and the damned! Bills fan forever!

Personally I don't care which qb it is. I just want that key positions to be our biggest weakness anymore.

EJ seems to be really trying and putting in the effort. I hope it works out for him. That being said I just want a qb that can effectively do his job in Romans offense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I believe that EJ Manuel is currently the third best QB on the Bills.

Beware Tyrod Taylor.

The article was good though.

 

Curious about the factual basis for your belief, if any

 

Cassel is a career mediocre QB who has had 2 successful years with playoff-quality teams. If you look at game logs, he is inconsistent - one game >70% completions, another <40%. Overall he averages 58.9% completions in his 10 year career, even with two seasons >60%.

Taylor has thrown 35 passes in the NFL for 54% completion. You might think being kept as a backup to Flacco for 4 years says something, but then again, how long did we keep Hamdan?

 

I'm not saying EJ is great, just wondering how someone looks at the roster and concludes EJ is 3rd.

[GunnerBill]

What were the 3 games? I only remember Atlanta.

 

The three games the post you responded to put forward were opening day vs New England, at Cleveland and Atlanta in Toronto. I wasn't arguing that he was right - just pointing out that if you turn those 3 into wins actually we would have made the play-offs. Personally I think we the Atlanta game away and the coach and GM were to blame for losing the Cleveland game by virtue of the omly Quarterback they had backing up EJ on the roster was Jeff Tuel.

[CodeMonkey]

I can understand how people can have doubt. What I cannot understand is how anyone can give up on a QB with less than a full season of playing time under his belt. I'm not the "I told you so," type, but when EJ wins the job and kicks ass this season, I might become one, temporarily.

Lets hope you get that chance!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I can understand how people can have doubt. What I cannot understand is how anyone can give up on a QB with less than a full season of playing time under his belt. I'm not the "I told you so," type, but when EJ wins the job and kicks ass this season, I might become one, temporarily.

 

We live in the Youtube era of instant gratification, plus recent rookie success QB like Luck and Wilson skew perception of the other 13 QB drafted in the 1st 3 rounds over the last 3 years.

 

Are you so insecure about EJ that nobody can have anything but a positive opinion of him? Goodness some of you are so sensitive over this kid.

 

Are you so challenged in reading comprehension that when a guy (sarcastically, I believe) wonders how someone looks at the data around the 4 QB currently on the Bills roster and concludes, with any factual basis, that EJ is #3, you honestly believe it amounts to extreme sensitivity and a demand for only positive opinions of EJ?

 

Or do you actually understand that someone could have a skeptical or negative opinion of EJ and still question how the "3rd best on our roster" conclusion got reached, and you're just inserting a straw man into the field?

[Doc]

Your first sentence is the answer to your question in the second.

I know. Doesn't make it a good answer.

If EJ is on the Ravens for the past 4 years, does he see the field? There are people who are optimistic about Tyrod because he is an exceptional athlete with a decent arm who came out as a project and was given 4 years to learn without being tossed to the wolves. It also says something to me that he has the confidence to bet on himself and take less money for an opportunity to start instead of taking more money to follow his OC to Denver and back up Peyton Manning. Does that mean he is definitively better than anyone else on the team? No. But to say that the organization is better off if EJ wins than Tyrod is funny given they're practically the same age. And to hold the fact that he was a backup to Flacco for his entire rookie contract against him is just silly.

 

I have been consistent in saying I will be happy if either young guy steps up and makes strides towards being a solid starter, and I maintain that, but I don't think it's right to write either off before we see them in the same system on the same field with the same players.

If EJ was on the Ravens, he also wouldn't have seen the field much. But in Taylor's opps, especially pre-season, he's done nothing noteworthy and his stats aren't even as good as EJ's, despite a far better coaching staff. Which is why talk of him being the 2nd best QB on the team is curious.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If EJ is on the Ravens for the past 4 years, does he see the field? There are people who are optimistic about Tyrod because he is an exceptional athlete with a decent arm who came out as a project and was given 4 years to learn without being tossed to the wolves. It also says something to me that he has the confidence to bet on himself and take less money for an opportunity to start instead of taking more money to follow his OC to Denver and back up Peyton Manning. Does that mean he is definitively better than anyone else on the team? No. But to say that the organization is better off if EJ wins than Tyrod is funny given they're practically the same age. And to hold the fact that he was a backup to Flacco for his entire rookie contract against him is just silly.

 

I understand the optimism. I myself would like to see what he's got - since his completion % improved every year in college it says to me he's a guy who can learn and wants to learn, so who knows what's there if he's availed himself well of the chance to work with NFL players on the scout team every week and watch film alongside good coaches in a winning organization for the last 4 years. I assume that's what intrigued the Bills as well and led them to acquire him (I was worried they saw him as a gimmick player but now I don't think so).

 

What I don't understand is how people can look at the roster and Taylor's record as a pro (all 35 passes of it) and conclude EJ is the 3rd QB on our roster. He may be, he may not be, there just doesn't seem to be any data.

 

The main thing I wonder about with Taylor is his size, but Brees and Wilson prove you can't measure the heart it takes to succeed in the NFL.

[Dorkington]

Well, I also work in Maryland, and I saw plenty from fans and local media. Here is a sampling:

 

- Ravens backup QB Tyrod Taylor ready if needed

- Tyrod Taylor Impressing In Training Camp

- Flacco appears unhappy with the Ravens use of Taylor

- Will Taylor be Ravens backup QB next season?

- Taylor understands he'll face competition in final year of contract (note he won that competition)

- Taylor ready to make the most of final preseason start

- Tyrod Taylor visiting Buffalo Bills, Ravens remain interested, sources say

- Quarterback Tyrod Taylor Chooses Bills Over Broncos

 

 

Yes, this created a lot of buzz throughout Ravens fans. When your team's captain, head coach and OC all sing one guy's praises...

Fair enough. I'm in DC, and there hasn't been much about him around here, so I guess we only get the "bigger" Ravens news 40 minutes away

[LB3]

Cue the "yeah but we knew he was going to be a project" posts.

 

If you're a top 20 pick and after 2 years you're still a bottom tier player, what does that tell us?

That's you're Ryan Tannehill?

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

I understand the optimism. I myself would like to see what he's got - since his completion % improved every year in college it says to me he's a guy who can learn and wants to learn, so who knows what's there if he's availed himself well of the chance to work with NFL players on the scout team every week and watch film alongside good coaches in a winning organization for the last 4 years. I assume that's what intrigued the Bills as well and led them to acquire him (I was worried they saw him as a gimmick player but now I don't think so).

 

What I don't understand is how people can look at the roster and Taylor's record as a pro (all 35 passes of it) and conclude EJ is the 3rd QB on our roster. He may be, he may not be, there just doesn't seem to be any data.

 

The main thing I wonder about with Taylor is his size, but Brees and Wilson prove you can't measure the heart it takes to succeed in the NFL.

 

Well, I think you know I'm not one of those people even though my homer factor makes me expect more from Taylor than most. I see a lot of the opposite here as well too. Taylor is just here to compete with Tuel, is a nobody, and hasn't done anything. It seems there a lot of the people here who think 14 games is too few to judge EJ, but 35 pass attempts (which came at the end of games where he came in cold) are enough to relegate Taylor to the practice squad (not picking on you here, just a general observation). Again, I think at least one of the young guys will step up, and Cassel is a last resort insurance policy.

[FireChan]

 

If you are going to claim research, you should probably include stats in his rookie playoff run.

 

Joe Flacco had a combined 437 yds 2 td (1 passing, 1 rushing) and 3 ints in that playoff run. (3 games)

 

Completion %? 39.1 50.0 and 43.3 respectively

 

While I agree playoff runs boost people's perception of a QB's abilities, 4 straight playoff eliminations will also cast doubt. That's why there were always questions about Flacco and whether he was an elite QB. All the way up to after he won the Super Bowl, and people even then criticized his huge payday. I can't imagine people were throwing around "Franchise QB" during these first couple years, but he eventually proved he could be a legitimate NFL QB, and EJ will have to do the same. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. As long as our GM has his head clear and keeps his eyes open for our next QB, we have no incentive to run anyone out of town.

 

Wish NFL Rewind went back that far. I'd love to check out his rookie season again.

 

I booted up the first game in 2009 Baltimore against Kansas City, and a couple things stood out.

 

He has a big arm, and guns it in there.

 

The Baltimore o-line seems to be outstanding, I wonder what they were ranked that year, the Chiefs D seemed to be pretty bad this game.

 

He has a couple throws that would have people yelling that he is trying to kill his WR's

 

He had a couple throws that were behind the WR, or 2 feet above their heads

 

He had a nice TD pass that was dropped by the WR

 

Overall, I don't think EJ was playing at Flaccos 2009 level in 2014, and probably 2013, but I think Flacco had some help. He had all day sometimes. Bottom line is, who ever is under center, we need to set them up to succeed.

I think that Flacco threw two of those picks in their AFCCG loss. I disagree that 4 playoff eliminations cast any doubt your first four years in the league. Are you going to "doubt" Luck if they don't win the SB next year? Brady got eliminated a bunch of times before winning his 4th Superbowl. Same with Brees etc etc.

 

Joe had an above average to really good second year, and won another playoff game. He (and the Ravens) kicked the crap out of the Pats who were only 2 years removed from the almost undefeated team. Flacco has had some lows, no doubt, but he was above average from day one. He has the best playoff record in the NFL since his rookie year. He has only missed the post season once, which appears to be an anomaly. He deserved that contract. I would be calling EJ our franchise guy if he had a year one and year two like Flacco, and 99% of Bills fans would agree.