BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 general question for those imagining a trade including EJ. If the Bills "don't want" EJ..... who does? And WHY? The only thing I could rationalize would be that both Washington and Buffalo think the same things about the QB's. Haven't lived up to potential yet, but due to difficult circumstances on the current team, they could benefit from a change in scenery. However, I do not know if Washington's investment in RG3 would drive the price up or down. Are they invested to the point that they expect unjust compensation? Or are they so invested that they feel they need to deal him to get something for him before he walks for free next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Why does Gruden not want him ? And why is the owner willing to go with that decision ? Remember when Vince Young came to town for the preseason.....he played ok until he lost discipline...........and threw a couple of picks into coverage. He was gone, then over the weekend. (It was Chan who cut him, I think) Same thing here with RG.....he wants to do it his way, not the coaches....maybe because he is headstrong, or maybe he lacks the skills , don't know, don't care. We don't need a head case QB here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The only thing I could rationalize would be that both Washington and Buffalo think the same things about the QB's. Haven't lived up to potential yet, but due to difficult circumstances on the current team, they could benefit from a change in scenery. However, I do not know if Washington's investment in RG3 would drive the price up or down. Are they invested to the point that they expect unjust compensation? Or are they so invested that they feel they need to deal him to get something for him before he walks for free next year? Good point. One difference ... RGIII wants to play "his" way (and if what I hear every day on DC radio is true) and not the way coaches want him to. I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard that about EJ - an unwillingness to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchiseneedsme Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I don't think Manuel has to be part of the deal. I hope Mariota falls to 5, the skins draft him, we offer a 3rd straight up for him. He could be dynamic. if we draft a starter on the online with the 2nd rounder, we would be a decent qb away from a full roster. Get this done!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Then why do you keep repeating that RG had the best rookie season in history? Just because numbers are inflated doesn't mean when people have great seasons, they're not still great seasons. Would Aaron Rodgers put up 40+ TD's with like 5 INT's in 1986? No. Are his numbers still very impressive and is he a great QB regardless of era? Of course. All you can do is go relative to era and in 2012, RGIII was one of the best QB's in the whole league. He won the freaking rookie of the year over Andrew Luck. Trust me, he was really good that year. Edited March 23, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Good point. One difference ... RGIII wants to play "his" way (and if what I hear every day on DC radio is true) and not the way coaches want him to. I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard that about EJ - an unwillingness to learn. I think "his" way fits pretty well with the scheme Roman likes, so I think with their philosophies being closer that issue diminishes. But, all things considered, I don't really feel different whether the competition is EJ/Tyrod/Cassel or RG3/Tyrod/Cassel. This hypothetical would be entirely about the cost of the trade. If it's EJ for RG3 straight up, or EJ and our 6th/7th for RG3 I'd take it personally because I believe the change in scenery could do both of them a lot of good, but anything more than that would be too much of a concession for what I see as a wash in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I don't think Manuel has to be part of the deal. I hope Mariota falls to 5, the skins draft him, we offer a 3rd straight up for him. He could be dynamic. if we draft a starter on the online with the 2nd rounder, we would be a decent qb away from a full roster. Get this done!!!! Ha very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in DC Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Good point. One difference ... RGIII wants to play "his" way (and if what I hear every day on DC radio is true) and not the way coaches want him to. I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard that about EJ - an unwillingness to learn. This ^^^^^ I am in the DC area and this is spot on. This has been a coach killer. RGIII thinks he is better than what he is. He is no longer what he use to be in his first year in the league, especially physically. Watching Mike Shanahan with RGIII was a circus. Keeping RGIII in a playoff game with him hurt was crazy to watch on tv as it unfolded. Change of scenery is NOT going to change RGIII. The Redskins are trying to get what they can from all the picks they gave up to get RGIII. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Because there new coach Gruden does not want him. He has a offense that he likes and he does not think RG3 fits what he is trying to do. So he is going to get moved This should not be a debate about if Manuel is better than RG III. It should only be about RG III, lets not forget two offensive coaches have now deemed him as not being worth it(Gruden and Shanahan). My problem with saying good coaching will fix any issues he has is that alone. How can one look at his RG III and not wonder what the real issue is when those two coaches chose to play inferior talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Good point. One difference ... RGIII wants to play "his" way (and if what I hear every day on DC radio is true) and not the way coaches want him to. I may be wrong, but I don't think I have heard that about EJ - an unwillingness to learn. If Buffalo sports radio is any indication, I wouldn't put much credence on what DC radio says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 it's really not that difficult. It's MANUEL, not MANUAL When the light bulb comes on for EJ this season because there's an innovative O in place, and he takes the Bills to the playoffs, all these guys will be spelling his name correctly. Guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 MxanUeeLL. + 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 LOL mmkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninMyrtleBeach Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Let's wait and see EJ2.0 before we **** can him for RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroi Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Let's wait and see EJ2.0 before we **** can him for RGIII. What and See?? Your post portrays as being really, really patient or just ignorant. We know what we have in KneEJ, we have seen his full potential. Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 What and See?? Your post portrays as being really, really patient or just ignorant. We know what we have in KneEJ, we have seen his full potential. Imo Leroi, see if your crystal ball looks into the past a little better than it looks into the future. Then pick, who you believe are, the five best QBs in the history of the NFL. Then look at their stats for their first 14 games. Then wonder to yourself, "gee, I guess it's a good thing for those guys that their teams were really patient or just ignorant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The emotional spin is so out of control on this board... Rg3 had a great rookie year statistically amongst the history of the NFL. You know who else did? EJ manual. Look it up. At this point there are pros and cons to both that come closer to washing even than most will admit. The contrast: Incredibly athletically talented, with more isolated success (amongst equivalent failure), more injuries and an ego problem, vs a locker room saint with a much better prototypical build, but accuracy/timing issues, and a history of Knee problems. Both have questionable ability to read defenses. There is no way either is an "obvious" upgrade over the other. This is one of the most debatable topics on board and easy odds are both will be out of the league in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 What and See?? Your post portrays as being really, really patient or just ignorant. We know what we have in KneEJ, we have seen his full potential. Imo The funny thing part is you don't even realize how ridiculous your post is. Criticizing a poster for suggesting the Bills shouldn't be too quick to rid themsevles EJ for a player like RG3 while mocking EJ for his knee injury. Yeah, cause RG3's knees are juuuuuuuuust fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The funny thing part is you don't even realize how ridiculous your post is. Criticizing a poster for suggesting the Bills shouldn't be too quick to rid themsevles EJ for a player like RG3 while mocking EJ for his knee injury. Yeah, cause RG3's knees are juuuuuuuuust fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 This thread has been amazing, if for nothing other than all the RG3 images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Leroi, see if your crystal ball looks into the past a little better than it looks into the future. Then pick, who you believe are, the five best QBs in the history of the NFL. Then look at their stats for their first 14 games. Then wonder to yourself, "gee, I guess it's a good thing for those guys that their teams were really patient or just ignorant." Stats in the 80s have just about as much bearing on the NFL as a con flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I was reading this at work today (dont log in )and WOW.pretty strong opinions being tossed about ! I would want to take a look at RJ3 if i was Whaley. a hard look. Not from a fans viewpoint.If the kids is trashed already then so be it. But i would want to know that for sure. and then compare that to EJ Manuel. I think this might be the surprise pick up honestly.But the QB trade doesn't make sense to me. Interested to see what Washington thinks they can get for him at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Stats in the 80s have just about as much bearing on the NFL as a con flip. Bull. And you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Bull. And you know it. I don't. I really really don't. Look at Matt Ryan's rookie stats. How do they compare to stats from the 80s? Or Cam Newton's? Or Jay Cutler's first full season? I can go on and on and on. There will be your Ben Roethlisbergers, who don't put up gaudy stats as rookies, but win, but it's clear the trend of a franchise or at least above average QB is having better, young seasons than the older greats. That's just the new NFL. Joe Montana's 1981 season, his first almost full one in his third year in the NFL, is nothing special compared to this day and age. It's just not. We can look at two QB's that give us the best view of that, and not even all the way back to the 80s. Compare Peyton Manning's first year stats to Andrew Luck's. Peyton is a Hall of Famer. And his rookie year wasn't even nearly close to Luck's. It's not as though Luck was ten times the prospect either. Would you argue that 23 year old Luck was better than 23 year old Peyton? I wouldn't. But still, blew him out of the water, numbers wise. In finality, you're incorrect. You really are. Comparing EJ's stats to the 80s or 90s is less than meaningless. Even if you wanna compare him to the greats still playing, right now, somewhere, there's a Jets fan claiming that Geno's rookie year "was a lot like Peyton's," and he's not wrong. But he's wrong that it means anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 "We can look at two QB's that give us the best view of that, and not even all the way back to the 80s. Compare Peyton Manning's first year stats to Andrew Luck's. Peyton is a Hall of Famer. And his rookie year wasn't even nearly close to Luck's. It's not as though Luck was ten times the prospect either. Would you argue that 23 year old Luck was better than 23 year old Peyton? I wouldn't. But still, blew him out of the water, numbers wise." You make my point for me with this. Manning's rookie year ... like most QBs .... was horrible. Yet he's a hall of famer. Had the Colts said after 14 games, "!@#$ this, this kid's a bust," that would have been pretty stupid; wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) "We can look at two QB's that give us the best view of that, and not even all the way back to the 80s. Compare Peyton Manning's first year stats to Andrew Luck's. Peyton is a Hall of Famer. And his rookie year wasn't even nearly close to Luck's. It's not as though Luck was ten times the prospect either. Would you argue that 23 year old Luck was better than 23 year old Peyton? I wouldn't. But still, blew him out of the water, numbers wise." You make my point for me with this. Manning's rookie year ... like most QBs .... was horrible. Yet he's a hall of famer. Had the Colts said after 14 games, "!@#$ this, this kid's a bust," that would have been pretty stupid; wouldn't you agree? Except Peyton Manning was a rookie 20 years ago dude. That's why it's ridiculous to compare his rookie season to EJ's, it was a different game. The NFL 20 years ago is almost as different from the modern NFL as college. Answer me this. Why was Luck's rookie year so much better than Peyton's? I'll wait. Edited March 24, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Maybe i'm just overreacting but Buffalo doesn't need to pursue every mediocre QB. The concept of replacing mediocrity with mediocrity is just a completely dumbfounding concept. We already traded for Matt Cassel, we picked up Kyle Orton last year. Idk who does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Except Peyton Manning was a rookie 20 years ago dude. That's why it's ridiculous to compare his rookie season to EJ's, it was a different game. The NFL 20 years ago is almost as different from the modern NFL as college. Answer me this. Why was Luck's rookie year so much better than Peyton's? I'll wait. Because the Luck Colts weren't nearly as bad as the Peyton Colts their rookie years. Everything went wrong the year before Luck was drafted. Luck came to basically an 8-8 roster, not a 1-15 roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Except Peyton Manning was a rookie 20 years ago dude. That's why it's ridiculous to compare his rookie season to EJ's, it was a different game. The NFL 20 years ago is almost as different from the modern NFL as college. Answer me this. Why was Luck's rookie year so much better than Peyton's? I'll wait. So what you're saying is that 20 years ago, it was acceptable for a QB to suck for 1-2 years; but in today's NFL, if a QB sucks before his first complete season is over, it's proper to give up on him. Funny how ... oh, I don't know ... no !@#$ing team in the league ever does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) So what you're saying is that 20 years ago, it was acceptable for a QB to suck for 1-2 years; but in today's NFL, if a QB sucks before his first complete season is over, it's proper to give up on him. Funny how ... oh, I don't know ... no !@#$ing team in the league ever does that. I'm saying what qualified as "suck" 20 years ago is not what qualifies as "suck" today. The standards have changed. So comparing EJ's rookie season to Montana's is bananas. Indy had the sixth highest passing yard total in the NFL when Peyton was a rookie. SIXTH! They would've been 18th in 2013. Are we gonna pretend like that means nothing still? Or, can we agree, that a top 6th passer in the NFL is a lot different that the bottom 14th? Edited March 24, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Interesting comments on RG3, although the Bills are my team I have had Redskins seasons tickets for the last 8 years. RG3 has two big problems, I don't think anyone has picked up on, first the offensive line has deteriorated since his first season. Arguably on of the worst in the league. Second he has a coach that is not good and doesn't like him. Shanahan had a zone blocking scheme which worked pretty good in the first season. His second year he was hurt. Enter Gruden who needed to make an example of someone to show his authority like any rookie coach would do. Keep in mind RG3 didn't become a head case and a bad guy until Gruden came in deploying tough love. RG3 is the easily the best QB on the team. Cousin has never played a good game when game planned against. His best games are when he came in after the starter was hurt. Colt McCoy... well is Colt McCoy. Gruden is possessed with doing things his way. He will be gone after this year and I don't think the upper management will pull the plug on RG3 until another QB is in place. Side note Brian Orakpo is a beast he let walk for a 4 year 27 million dollar deal. For that money he would have looked real good in a Bills uniform. I'm a Hughes fan but Orakpo is better and cheaper. Edited March 24, 2015 by VADC Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I'm saying what qualified as "suck" 20 years ago is not what qualifies as "suck" today. The standards have changed. So comparing EJ's rookie season to Montana's is bananas. Indy had the sixth highest passing yard total in the NFL when Peyton was a rookie. SIXTH! They would've been 18th in 2013. Are we gonna pretend like that means nothing still? Or, can we agree, that a top 6th passer in the NFL is a lot different that the bottom 14th? No, they likely would have been sixth again if it were now. It's relative to other teams and changes in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) No, they likely would have been sixth again if it were now. It's relative to other teams and changes in the game. No. Stop that. Edited March 24, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) "We can look at two QB's that give us the best view of that, and not even all the way back to the 80s. Compare Peyton Manning's first year stats to Andrew Luck's. Peyton is a Hall of Famer. And his rookie year wasn't even nearly close to Luck's. It's not as though Luck was ten times the prospect either. Would you argue that 23 year old Luck was better than 23 year old Peyton? I wouldn't. But still, blew him out of the water, numbers wise." You make my point for me with this. Manning's rookie year ... like most QBs .... was horrible. Yet he's a hall of famer. Had the Colts said after 14 games, "!@#$ this, this kid's a bust," that would have been pretty stupid; wouldn't you agree? Actually, Luck was a better prospect than Manning - hands down. Your basic point is OK - but it's tiring listening to people not grasp what sort of prospect Luck was. He was universally regarded as the greatest draft prospect since Elway - Manning was not close. Luck had NO WEAKNESSES coming out of college - he's as fast as Cam Newton with a cannon arm that Manning never had. Edited March 24, 2015 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually, Luck was a better prospect than Manning - hands down. Your basic point is OK - but it's tiring listening to people not grasp what sort of prospect Luck was. He was universally regarded as the greatest draft prospect since Elway - Manning was not close. Luck had NO WEAKNESSES coming out of college - he's as fast as Cam Newton with a cannon arm that Manning never had. Yup. Luck was a better prospect than Manning was, and more prepared to play, even though Manning was a great prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gestes72 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 RGIII = Michael Vick and that isn't a compliment on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 "We can look at two QB's that give us the best view of that, and not even all the way back to the 80s. Compare Peyton Manning's first year stats to Andrew Luck's. Peyton is a Hall of Famer. And his rookie year wasn't even nearly close to Luck's. It's not as though Luck was ten times the prospect either. Would you argue that 23 year old Luck was better than 23 year old Peyton? I wouldn't. But still, blew him out of the water, numbers wise." You make my point for me with this. Manning's rookie year ... like most QBs .... was horrible. Yet he's a hall of famer. Had the Colts said after 14 games, "!@#$ this, this kid's a bust," that would have been pretty stupid; wouldn't you agree? Gug, I hate to pile on, but this business that Manning sucked as a rookie is total utter horse ****. He was amazing as a rookie. The only column of his stat sheet that was negative was INTs, which is the kind of thing you expect to improve with experience. His yds and TDs were off the charts good for a rookie. They were on par with the better veteran QBs of the time. Back then throwing for 4k yds was a really big deal. Now it's just pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Gug, I hate to pile on, but this business that Manning sucked as a rookie is total utter horse ****. He was amazing as a rookie. The only column of his stat sheet that was negative was INTs, which is the kind of thing you expect to improve with experience. His yds and TDs were off the charts good for a rookie. They were on par with the better veteran QBs of the time. Back then throwing for 4k yds was a really big deal. Now it's just pretty good. All I've been trying to say. EJ would be regarded as the second coming if he came out his rookie year and threw 2800 yards, 20 TD's and 15 INT's in '98 or '81. Now, that's just adequate. Edited March 24, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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