BBills14 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Forgive me for starting a new thread around a similar topic, but with ALL the signings this offseason (Kyle Williams included) I just don't see how there is enough resource to go around to retaining Dareus next year. I'd rather NO Clay and NO extension to Kyle Williams to keep Mr. BIG Stuff. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think you are just saying "big numbers?!? Plus more big numbers?!? No way that could work!" instead of actually looking at the nuts and bolts of the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Pegula used to own the agency that reps Dareus. don't you think he has some "inside info" on the situation? i'm not worried about Dareus. i am worried about ever getting a franchise QB though. you have to sign Dareus and Gilmore and restructure and extend Mario. no money for a big franchise QB contract that's for sure. their plan is going to have to be to win without one for a long time or hope that someone on the roster turns into one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills14 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think you are just saying "big numbers?!? Plus more big numbers?!? No way that could work!" instead of actually looking at the nuts and bolts of the situation Thats exactly what I'm saying. If Dareus gets anything like Suh, it feels like he is as good as gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Pegula used to own the agency that reps Dareus. don't you think he has some "inside info" on the situation? i'm not worried about Dareus. i am worried about ever getting a franchise QB though. you have to sign Dareus and Gilmore and restructure and extend Mario. no money for a big franchise QB contract that's for sure. their plan is going to have to be to win without one for a long time or hope that someone on the roster turns into oneimo if it's not EJ, they need to draft one in Rd 1 next year. The stat I saw of the number of SB winning QBs that joined their team in FA is only something like 10. A bridge QB or vet backup is ok in FA but franchise QBs are drafted and developed. They tried with EJ, we will see what happens there, but if he doesn't show he's the guy this year then they try again next year. Thats exactly what I'm saying. If Dareus gets anything like Suh, it feels like he is as good as gone... i don't think Dareus will hit FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Forgive me for starting a new thread around a similar topic, but with ALL the signings this offseason (Kyle Williams included) I just don't see how there is enough resource to go around to retaining Dareus next year. I'd rather NO Clay and NO extension to Kyle Williams to keep Mr. BIG Stuff. Thoughts? The Bills currently have $33 million in cap room (before Clay) next year, assuming the cap doesn't go up at all. We all know it's going up at least $10 million, with some claiming it could be as high as $160 million. This leaves the Bills with ample room to re-sign their own players, including Dareus. Especially since their commitments for the 2017 and beyond drop down to $80 million, which means they can minimize the cap hit next year and increase it in the following years with no problem. Dareus getting a Suh deal next year would actually help our chances of of retaining him because that would mean his cap hit would only be $6 million next year. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/07/cap-could-hit-160-million-in-2016/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2016/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2017/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Thats exactly what I'm saying. If Dareus gets anything like Suh, it feels like he is as good as gone... I think that what NoSaint is saying is that isn't how it works. Contract structure is what matters not just contract numbers. The Bills will have no issues in getting Dareus signed to a mega deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thats exactly what I'm saying. If Dareus gets anything like Suh, it feels like he is as good as gone... Why does it feel like he is as good as gone? Dareus counts over 8 mil on this years cap so lets say his cap hit for 2016 is 16 mil that would only increase his cap hit another 8 mil which if needed could be freed up easily. Dareus is also the one player I think the Bills would use the Franchuse tag on so with all that plus the way the cap continues to rise do you still think he is as good as gone? Edited March 18, 2015 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Dareus will be a Bill for life. Not on Rex's watch will you lose a top DL in his absolute prime. Edited March 18, 2015 by filthymcnasty08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Dareus will be a Bill for life. Not on Rex's watch will you lose a top DL in his absolute prime.agreed. I think he will be extended in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think that what NoSaint is saying is that isn't how it works. Contract structure is what matters not just contract numbers. The Bills will have no issues in getting Dareus signed to a mega deal. thats a big part of my point. the other piece being that the cap has risen so damn fast the last decade that a lot of fans see 100m and think its CRAZY money to spend. truth is, its becoming much more commonplace. so a lot of fans hear numbers that used to be RIDICULOUS and dont take into account the value of the deal as a percentage of cap space or various options to structure the deal flexibly agreed. I think he will be extended in 2015. i still wouldnt be shocked if he is tagged as a final "prove it" to hold his rights with minimal risk through the 2016 offseason (as much as we love him, hes had some offseason adventures both legally, and the year he looked to come in out of shape), and he gets his big deal in July, or right at the close of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreezeMafia Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Pegula used to own the agency that reps Dareus. don't you think he has some "inside info" on the situation? i'm not worried about Dareus. i am worried about ever getting a franchise QB though. you have to sign Dareus and Gilmore and restructure and extend Mario. no money for a big franchise QB contract that's for sure. their plan is going to have to be to win without one for a long time or hope that someone on the roster turns into one Agreed. To that end, I am interetsed to see EJ without the two knuckleheads - Marrone and Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I like Suh and Dareus but they aren't worth QB money. Miami made a big mistake. Edited March 18, 2015 by kota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 We'll have enough room to do what we need to do to retain our players next year. Having said that, the $50 M (pre Clay, probably closer to $40M now including the projected increase in cap) that is available next year is a bit misleading though. That doesn't take into account Dareus, Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, Bradham and possibly Harvin. And there are others as well, and just these five alone will receive contracts totaling an aggregate amount of around $50M per year. But as some others have suggested, a lot of it depends on how you structure the contracts, but make no bones about it, if we retain (which I would certainly hope we would) all these players they will take up the lions share of what is available next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Forgive me for starting a new thread around a similar topic, but with ALL the signings this offseason (Kyle Williams included) I just don't see how there is enough resource to go around to retaining Dareus next year. I'd rather NO Clay and NO extension to Kyle Williams to keep Mr. BIG Stuff. Thoughts? My thoughts are that its a bit ridiculous for fans to worry about something that none of us can come close to fully understanding (the inner working of the salary cap). From what the new Bills have shown so far, it seems like they have an overall plan on how to sign and structure guys. I think Overdorff being hampered by Ralph's... frugality for years gives him good insight on how to keep the team safe, while now having Pegula's checkbook gives him the room to really make the deals he needs to. Beyond that, we are getting into details and numbers which are impossible for fans to truly know, so there is not a lot of sense worrying about it. From looking at data that is accessible, the rough numbers, we should be in a decent position to re-sign our guys without putting the team in a bad spot down the line. We'll have enough room to do what we need to do to retain our players next year. Having said that, the $50 M (pre Clay, probably closer to $40M now including the projected increase in cap) that is available next year is a bit misleading though. That doesn't take into account Dareus, Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, Bradham and possibly Harvin. And there are others as well, and just these five alone will receive contracts totaling an aggregate amount of around $50M per year. But as some others have suggested, a lot of it depends on how you structure the contracts, but make no bones about it, if we retain (which I would certainly hope we would) all these players they will take up the lions share of what is available next year. For sure. We are set to have a lot of cap space next year, but that's because we are also set to have a lot of FAs. 25 total, and some pretty big names in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Dareus will be a Bill for life. Not on Rex's watch will you lose a top DL in his absolute prime. Agreed. I'm betting it won't cost Duh money either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Agreed. I'm betting it won't cost Duh money either. itll be pretty darn close. mccoy and suh set the market pretty strongly for dareus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 if he doesnt sign before FA breaks, he will be f-tagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Pegula used to own the agency that reps Dareus. don't you think he has some "inside info" on the situation? i'm not worried about Dareus. i am worried about ever getting a franchise QB though. you have to sign Dareus and Gilmore and restructure and extend Mario. no money for a big franchise QB contract that's for sure. their plan is going to have to be to win without one for a long time or hope that someone on the roster turns into one Sadly, the chances of any team letting their franchise qb hit the open market is pretty much zero. There are less than a dozen in the world, and everyone knows its the key to a championship. All we can do it hope we find one in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCOHEN13 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Forgive me for starting a new thread around a similar topic, but with ALL the signings this offseason (Kyle Williams included) I just don't see how there is enough resource to go around to retaining Dareus next year. I'd rather NO Clay and NO extension to Kyle Williams to keep Mr. BIG Stuff. Thoughts? I got RIPPED for starting a thread about re-signing Hughes potentially hurting chances of extending Dareus next yr! With Clay contract its gonna be even harder. My point was, re-signing Hughes was not a mistake. BUT... considering the style of D Rex will employ, Hughes be will on field less than last yr and is typically a position for a LB who can rush the passer yet still be effective in coverage, which Lawson was solid in Pettine's (Rex D) 2 yrs ago. They split times depending on situation. With looking at how Bills offseason was going, it was blatant they will continue spending money and at time, i didnt think Harvin would be a target but hes only on 1 yr rental deal anyway. Clay's contract is huge, and i dont think we are done. I have a feeling we will sign another vet OL either via a later team cut, or someone who's still out there. We do have alot of space for "other" positions cuz Whaley is very correct is saying its easiest to spend when u dont have like 20 mil tied up in a QB, AND as others have pointed out in other threads, our #1 WR is just in his 2nd yr and wont require huge contract for few yrs... With FO's these days, and ours seems to not be a minor league one anymore and cap going up every yr, Dareus will surely get Suh type money and we MUST not even considering letting him go. He's more key to this DL than anyone, even Mario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Glenn, Gilmore, Bradham, and Dareus are due for big extensions (Well Gilmore and Glenn are much much more dependent on what they do this upcoming season). The cap is projected to be between 150-160 and the Bills currently sit with 113 committed (Even if you factor in dead money). Chris Williams and Manny Lawson are also possible cuts that could free up more significant space. Also Mario's deal could be restructured/extended to free up some more cap space. I would like them to extend Bradham to a modest deal 4-5 million get him set. Then extend Dareus as the anchor for 15+ million. I think you could then franchise Gilmore or Glenn depending on how they do. Its a given that the team is going to let one of those players walk. 1 player who will command a mega deal in Dareus, 2 players who depending on how they do could command big deals in Glenn and Gilmore, and another player in Bradham who is commanding a sizable extension. In all likelihood you are going to have to see one of those players walk. My best case is to grab 3 out of the 4 extend two of them during the season and pick one of them to possibly franchise. Good news is that the team has an owner willing to spend. Although it would be good to save some money on the cap and try to make a play for Phillip Rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 @hsimon62: if you are worried about the cap w/report that Clay's 2016 cap # will be around 12 million. don't worry. even w/dareus coming up (1/2) @hsimon62: as per http://t.co/TfHg2CvTtL, #Bills top 51 contracts in 2016 take up $109 million in space. some are projecting 2016 cap to be around 160m @hsimon62: Bills would have room to cover Dareus and Gilmore. Bills have till May 3rd to exercise a 2016 option on Gilmore which would cost 10M plus @hsimon62: they haven't touched mario williams contract yet and he has cap # of 19m plus. they can re-structure to clear more room if they want @hsimon62: great to have filthy rich owners who will spend whatever it takes including bonus money that lowers cap #'s to sign/keep key players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Plus that site hasn't updated the cost savings of Urbik's restructure, freeing up another 1.5 million Edited March 18, 2015 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If the cap jumps to 160mil like it's been rumored to I have no doubt he'll have a contract quite similar to Suh & McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Whatakes us sure Mario restructures? He doesn't have to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Whatakes us sure Mario restructures? He doesn't have to What makes you think he doesn't want more cash in hand sooner? He won't play forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Whatakes us sure Mario restructures? He doesn't have to theres literally no reason for a player to say no typically. problem is unless hes re-signing with an extension, its so late in his deal that its not a great option to use him at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Whatakes us sure Mario restructures? He doesn't have to that will depend on what makes him happy and how the team fares. If the D stays solid and the O improves and the Bills make it to and wins a playoff game I could envision him pulling a Jerry and staying to complete unfinished work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 theres literally no reason for a player to say no typically. problem is unless hes re-signing with an extension, its so late in his deal that its not a great option to use him at that point.we will have to give him many more years otherwise he knows he will have good money on the table in 3 yrs. He has shown no signs of slowing down and is too good to fall off enough not to earn a 3-4 yr $40-50mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 we will have to give him many more years otherwise he knows he will have good money on the table in 3 yrs. He has shown no signs of slowing down and is too good to fall off enough not to earn a 3-4 yr $40-50mm He may not be slowing down yet, but at the end of his current contract he'll be 34. I dont know there will be many teams out there looking to pay him $10+mil/yr until he's close to 40. He will slow down, there will be new, younger DEs around the league. Look at Vince Wolfork's new contract compared to the young guys like McCoy and Suh. Day and night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 He may not be slowing down yet, but at the end of his current contract he'll be 34. I dont know there will be many teams out there looking to pay him $10+mil/yr until he's close to 40. He will slow down, there will be new, younger DEs around the league. Look at Vince Wolfork's new contract compared to the young guys like McCoy and Suh. Day and night. look at guys like Cliff Avril and jPP. Look at some of the older guys recently of the last 5 yrs. Wilfork got less and slowed due to multiple injuries. Kyle Williams is better to compare to Bianca then Mario. Mario will go somewhere with a much higher cap by 2017 and sign a $8-10mm/yr deal if he can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Whatakes us sure Mario restructures? He doesn't have to What player wouldn't want more guaranteed money which is all a restructure really is...more guaranteed money with a lower cap it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 look at guys like Cliff Avril and jPP. Look at some of the older guys recently of the last 5 yrs. Wilfork got less and slowed due to multiple injuries. Kyle Williams is better to compare to Bianca then Mario. Mario will go somewhere with a much higher cap by 2017 and sign a $8-10mm/yr deal if he can Cliff Avril is 28 and JPP is 26. They're in a completely different NFL generation, considered prime years for DL, than a 34 year old guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Cliff Avril is 28 and JPP is 26. They're in a completely different NFL generation, considered prime years for DL, than a 34 year old guy. football years jpp is mid 30's. Avril, too. Both have had drop offs. Mario has been healthy and playing very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I like Suh and Dareus but they aren't worth QB money. Miami made a big mistake. Losing Dareus vs the Raiders was the reason we lost that game. The ran the ball right down our throats where Dareus would have been. We stopped the run the rest of the season for the most part. I see a player that when not on the field leads to us losing the the freaking Raiders as valuable as a QB. He's a flat out game changer and there a few of them at any position in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 It is difficult to image that after re-signing Hughes and extending Kyle, that the FO's plan isn't to also re-sign Dareus and keep the strength of this team, the front four, together for the foreseeable future. We can easily afford it, though keeping Glenn, Gilmore, Bradham and Harvin as well might be stretching things somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's in My Blood Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If the cap jumps to 160mil like it's been rumored to I have no doubt he'll have a contract quite similar to Suh & McCoy And he deserves a contract that size more than those two. I think Dareus could be a potential hall of famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No problem! Thank God we don't have a Quarterback, huh? Oh... wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchiseneedsme Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 We'll have enough room to do what we need to do to retain our players next year. Having said that, the $50 M (pre Clay, probably closer to $40M now including the projected increase in cap) that is available next year is a bit misleading though. That doesn't take into account Dareus, Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, Bradham and possibly Harvin. And there are others as well, and just these five alone will receive contracts totaling an aggregate amount of around $50M per year. But as some others have suggested, a lot of it depends on how you structure the contracts, but make no bones about it, if we retain (which I would certainly hope we would) all these players they will take up the lions share of what is available next year.I'm cool with that, if we make the playoffs. That will mean we are a good team. We can sign our own and let Whaley keep having good drafts to keep us going long term. If any of the qbs are half way decent, we could be a dynasty. Also is it possible we get a home playoff game? If we over take the Pats for the division, I think the Colts are the only team around to give us a run . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I like Suh and Dareus but they aren't worth QB money. Miami made a big mistake. They are two of the top 5 defenders in the entire league. They deserve to get paid. Do you think Orton deserved QB money? He was grossly overpaid for what he produced. Miami will surely screw up and give big money to Tannehill. That will be their mistake. He is below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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