NFL Live Bills over cap?

[NoSaint]

Great... I only ask one question... Do you get paid for posting here and providing accurate information? Numbers and facts can be checked before words come out of mouth.

for sure, and its a key part of his job.

 

but its a job hes not had long and is likely brought in for color commentary and personal anecdotes more than talking cap. like i said, id imagine its easy to say the wrong team, or cross up a number by accident going live.

 

if they run the piece recorded its a much bigger mistake, or if it was intended to be that commentary.

[dezertbill]

The site I'm looking at has us at ~$24 mil, with a $7 mil committment to Orton, so closer to $30 mil.

 

Plus cut Chris Williams after June 1 frees up another $2.5 mil

Spotrac has the Bills at $30.3 million available cap space. Cutting Urbik, Williams, and Rivers would free up an additional $7.2 million. Not to mention Mario's restructuring the Bills could easily be playing with $40+ mill on the Free Agent Market.

Edited February 3, 2015 by dezertbill

[Kirby Jackson]

How about when people STILL say that the Bills have a top running attack? Lol. No, we were top 3 the league in rushing ATTEMPTS. In 2013.

I bet this stuff happens to other teams all of the time too though. We just aren't close enough to realize it unless it is something extreme like, "Atlanta's relentless defense" or "Jacksonville's explosive offense." You really just need to have played football and be able to speak (they added this prerequisite thanks to Emmitt Smith) to score a TV gig.

[peterpan]

Bills better go get some players with all that cap space. AND resign our own dang guys. Dareus Glenn Gilmore Hughes etc.

James Carpenter is a very good G from Seattle that I would LOVE to see and imiagine will be available. I like Boling and Iupati too of course.

[Fadingpain]

Bills better go get some players with all that cap space. AND resign our own dang guys. Dareus Glenn Gilmore Hughes etc.

James Carpenter is a very good G from Seattle that I would LOVE to see and imiagine will be available. I like Boling and Iupati too of course.

http://www.pixyland.org/mp3/cd/TheCastleSample.mp3

[BuffalothruMyVeins]

Geez I didn't realize it was QUITE so much money that we had to work with... I'm all for cutting Urbik, Williams and Rivers and saving that approx 7 million ONLY IF it means we go after Iupati or Carpenter. I wasn't interested in getting one of those 2 guys if we had the approx 20-22 million that I was anticipating. Now if we're looking at a possible $35 million of space, I could see giving 6-7 million for a top guard, retaining Hughes for around $10 million, and Revis for what... $13 million? If we have to, give that Hughes money to J. Thomas, if they aren't interested in drafting a TE in the 2nd or 3rd round. Either direction I could get behind.

[billsfan1959]

Cutting Keith rivers and Urbik gets you 6 more they can do some good stuff .

Rivers, yes. Urbik, no.

[jaybee]

Watching NFL Live today Jeff Saturday says Bills 2 million over cap. What's up with that's? I thought we were well under.

 

I heard the same thing. In fact, they even repeated it twice. Then they also said Rex really has his work cut out for him with the cap situation being way over. They also said (of course as they will) that the hire of Rex made no sense for Buffalo. Screw ESPN. They suck. Except Berman !!

[Beerball]

Who outside of Buffalo notices?

I'm in Ohio.

Great... I only ask one question... Do you get paid for posting here and providing accurate information? Numbers and facts can be checked before words come out of mouth.

No Saint is, in fact, the highest paid professional poster we have.

His cap hit would blow your mind.

[PromoTheRobot]

Does it matter?

My point was that if they get us wrong, who knows what else they get wrong? We don't know because we only follow the Bills.

[Dibs]

I don't understand all of the talk about Mario restructuring. Has there been any legitimate rumour to this.....or is it just a bunch of fans speculating?

 

Unless people mean that Mario will agree to a pay cut(which I can't see happening), restructuring Mario would mean freeing up extra cap dollars today....but tightening our cap for tomorrow(when we will want to be re-signing Dareus, Glenn, Kiko, Bradham, Gilmore, Watkins, Brown etc).

 

Restructuring Mario would make sense if we had a legitimate shot at the SB(meaning that we had a top QB).....but doing it at this point in time would be unnecessarily hurting our roster of the future.

[Deranged Rhino]

I don't understand all of the talk about Mario restructuring. Has there been any legitimate rumour to this.....or is it just a bunch of fans speculating?

 

Unless people mean that Mario will agree to a pay cut(which I can't see happening), restructuring Mario would mean freeing up extra cap dollars today....but tightening our cap for tomorrow(when we will want to be re-signing Dareus, Glenn, Kiko, Bradham, Gilmore, Watkins, Brown etc).

 

Restructuring Mario would make sense if we had a legitimate shot at the SB(meaning that we had a top QB).....but doing it at this point in time would be unnecessarily hurting our roster of the future.

 

Restructuring doesn't equal a pay cut, it's just a way to work the cap and shift "future" money into guaranteed money. When they talk about restructuring a deal as big as Mario's it's pretty easy to do if you have cash... which the Pegulas have plenty of. It doesn't hurt the roster at all to do it, and Mario certainly won't complain. I'm not sure they'll restructure Mario this off season, but I think they will have to restructure him next season to keep the young guys around into their second contract.

[Dibs]

 

.....it's just a way to work the cap and shift "future" money into guaranteed money. When they talk about restructuring a deal as big as Mario's it's pretty easy to do if you have cash... which the Pegulas have plenty of. It doesn't hurt the roster at all to do it, and Mario certainly won't complain. I'm not sure they'll restructure Mario this off season, but I think they will have to restructure him next season to keep the young guys around into their second contract.

 

 

It hurts the future roster. Effectively if you restructure Mario so that it frees up more cap dollars now, those saved cap dollars in today's cap will reduce the cap space in later years. One has to assume that the extra cap dollars gained from the restructure would be used in this cap. This means that that money would not be rolled over into future caps......and also means that the players whom the monies were spent on are most likely additional cap hits into future years(given a contract longer than 1 year). It also means that Mario's cap hits are moved into future years. This would then mean that in future years when we want to re-sign all of the excellent talent that we have drafted in recent years, there will be fewer cap dollars to be able to retain them.

 

This is the method teams use when they are making a run at the Superbowl. You spend tomorrow's money today when you believe you have a legitimate shot. The longer you push the envelope in deferring cap dollars, the worse cap situation you will be in down the road. The Saints are the latest example of this.

 

As the Bills have so much young talent on the roster whom they would likely wish to re-sign down the road, it makes no sense to spend tomorrow's cap dollars today and weaken our future team unless we believe that we have a legitimate shot at winning the SB.

[NewEra]

That 30 mill extra......Dareus, Gilmore, Bradham and Glenn. All free agents in 2016. Get it done Doug. Those are pieces we can't afford to lose IMO. 4 building blocks of 4 different units. All drafted by us.

[ganesh]

When talking 32 teams, on live air, I imagine it's pretty easy to get crossed up and say something dumb. Happens to me casually posting with no pressure and with the ability to double check stuff before submitting

That is not acceptable as that is their full-time job. Do your research and ensure the data is correct.

 

 

It hurts the future roster. Effectively if you restructure Mario so that it frees up more cap dollars now, those saved cap dollars in today's cap will reduce the cap space in later years. One has to assume that the extra cap dollars gained from the restructure would be used in this cap. This means that that money would not be rolled over into future caps......and also means that the players whom the monies were spent on are most likely additional cap hits into future years(given a contract longer than 1 year). It also means that Mario's cap hits are moved into future years. This would then mean that in future years when we want to re-sign all of the excellent talent that we have drafted in recent years, there will be fewer cap dollars to be able to retain them.

 

This is the method teams use when they are making a run at the Superbowl. You spend tomorrow's money today when you believe you have a legitimate shot. The longer you push the envelope in deferring cap dollars, the worse cap situation you will be in down the road. The Saints are the latest example of this.

 

As the Bills have so much young talent on the roster whom they would likely wish to re-sign down the road, it makes no sense to spend tomorrow's cap dollars today and weaken our future team unless we believe that we have a legitimate shot at winning the SB.

Completely agree. Worth noting two points though in how successful teams have used the cap

When you restructure you are also hoping for two things to offset this future debt (to say).

1. The annual increase in the salary cap for the teams keep going up.

2. The player never sees that last year or two of their contract when they can get washed up. The team is then willing to take the cap hit for the upfront bonus. (For example, if Mario's cap was $20M in 2017 and 10M of that was from the upfront bonus and 10M was salary, then by cutting him, the cap hit for the team would still only be $10M).

 

Again I am not advocating this is the right thing to do, but teams have done that.

[Mark Vader]

Rivers, yes. Urbik, no.

Agreed. Why are some of you so eager to cut Urbik?

 

Even if he is not a starter, he's a veteran and is good depth.

 

Do you really think Cyril Richardson is going to turn his game around that quickly?

[Gasjuggler]

Great... I only ask one question... Do you get paid for posting here and providing accurate information? Numbers and facts can be checked before words come out of mouth.

If your talking to me, dosnt every one get paid to post? I just repeated what he said. Whaley says 16M under, ESPN says 2m over. Somebody is wrong.

[eball]

According to Spotrac the Bills are projected at 27.6M without any restructures. That puts us 8th, behind the following teams:

 

Jags 57.3

Raiders 50.1

Browns 43.3

Jets 42.9

Titans 34.8

Bengals 31.4

Colts 30.7

[GunnerBill]

Agreed. Why are some of you so eager to cut Urbik?

 

Even if he is not a starter, he's a veteran and is good depth.

 

Do you really think Cyril Richardson is going to turn his game around that quickly?

 

 

Because Urbik has not played well for the last season and a half. My take on it is this - you have to keep one of Urbik or Chris Williams for depth even if you bring in two guards. Williams can potentially be a swing guy that could play tackle in a pinch (as your 4th option) and Urbik can play as a backup guard.

 

I know a lot of people here hate Chris Williams, they hated him as soon as we signed him before he played a snap. I know that they also shout about his poor PFF grades... but what they probably don't know is the guy who runs PFF (a British guy) is a huge Bears fan who hates Chris Williams as a famous Bears 1st round bust, so I do question the objectivity of some of those grades. The truth is he is a slightly below average guard who played pretty well those two games he played for us before the back injury... the run game was certainly not as productive once he went down.

 

I don't think there is much between him and Urbik. They have similar cap numbers as well. If I do not think there is any chance of Williams getting over the back issue then I cut him. If I think he is going to be healthy I cut whichever one of them makes more sense based on freeing up cap space and dead money etc.

 

Cut Rivers, cut Urbik OR Williams, let Spiller walk add that to the Orton saving and Mike Williams saving and then re-sign Hughes and Searcy and extend Dareus. I would then make sure I am carrying a little space because I want to extend Glenn and Gilmore next year.

 

That should still leave room for at least one FA guard (maybe not Iupati because I think he will get a mega contract) and a TE.

 

Carpenter and Jordan Cameron would be nice.

Edited February 4, 2015 by GunnerBill

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

It hurts the future roster. Effectively if you restructure Mario so that it frees up more cap dollars now, those saved cap dollars in today's cap will reduce the cap space in later years. One has to assume that the extra cap dollars gained from the restructure would be used in this cap. This means that that money would not be rolled over into future caps......and also means that the players whom the monies were spent on are most likely additional cap hits into future years(given a contract longer than 1 year). It also means that Mario's cap hits are moved into future years. This would then mean that in future years when we want to re-sign all of the excellent talent that we have drafted in recent years, there will be fewer cap dollars to be able to retain them.

 

This is the method teams use when they are making a run at the Superbowl. You spend tomorrow's money today when you believe you have a legitimate shot. The longer you push the envelope in deferring cap dollars, the worse cap situation you will be in down the road. The Saints are the latest example of this.

 

As the Bills have so much young talent on the roster whom they would likely wish to re-sign down the road, it makes no sense to spend tomorrow's cap dollars today and weaken our future team unless we believe that we have a legitimate shot at winning the SB.

restructuring contracts only becomes an issue if a team is consistently doing it every year with multiple players. Those teams will always have cap issues. Steelers, Cowboys, Saints. Restructuring the contract of one long term contributor and using the method of converting to bonus money (there are other ways too) is fairly common regardless of whether you think you are going to a SB that year. Unless the team is rebuilding, they are trying to win and aren't sandbagging the roster because they don't think they are good enough anyway.

 

The Bills only have 5 contracts over 5 mill/yr on the entire team. I doubt they will restructure Mario this year because they really don't need to with the space they have. They may consider it next year, depending on the situation as Marcel will be getting a 100 mill deal.

Edited February 4, 2015 by YoloinOhio