Conflict Between Bills' Front Office and Marrone?

[Fan in Chicago]

 

 

He was also "involved" with drafting CJ Spiller in the first round.

By no means does it mean he agreed with it.

 

Simon - appears to be shocking to me. Whaley was given the keys but someone else chose the car for him? At what point did/does he get the authority to make this his team top to bottom? History has shown Nix to be a nice man but incompetent at team building. Whose choice was EJ??

Good to see you chime in, BTW. However infrequently

Edited December 11, 2014 by Fan in Chicago

[bigK14094]

"The strength of a good organization is a difference of opinion. When two men think alike, one is unnecessary. " WC Wrigley

[K-9]

Agree in fact as well as theory. He was a main player. But all four of those guys did all of that: Nix, Whaley, Russ and Overdorf. Whaley has a different perspective than the other three (although close to Nix). But remember, they wanted Chip Kelly. There were clear reports both in front of and behind the scenes that they liked Wisenhunt. Whaley said all four of those guys got together and had an idea of what kind of coach they wanted and Marrone fit them all. I always assumed that Whaley was all in favor of it but I'm not so sure anymore. It's impossible to be sure about any of this.

 

It's easy to believe Whaley favored Wisenhunt given their Steelers connection.

 

Regardless, it's always been reported as a consensus decision which is what you'd expect any good PR person to advise anyone to say about it. This will all come out in the wash eventually. If Whaley fires Marrone after the season, we'll know. Given Marrone's often incoherent dealings with the media on certain subjects, I can see the writing on the wall. But right now, it's a futile exercise in fan psychology: fans like Whaley, fans hate Marrone, therefore Whaley must have a problem with Marrone.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[bigK14094]

On this we agree completely. Should we drop this Sunday then inexplicably drop one in Oakland, I would expect EJ to start in Foxboro. But not until then,

Actually, that would have a positive, as I think that would settle the EJ dialog....don't think EJ can do it.......sooner that shows, the better. I wish the receiving corp could go public and vent their view. As a Season Ticket holder, I saw the games where the receivers were giving their gestures of frustration when EJ missed them time after time........Marrone had help in making the decision to bench EJ, he was getting an insurection out of the wr corp.

[NoSaint]

Actually, that would have a positive, as I think that would settle the EJ dialog....don't think EJ can do it.......sooner that shows, the better. I wish the receiving corp could go public and vent their view. As a Season Ticket holder, I saw the games where the receivers were giving their gestures of frustration when EJ missed them time after time........Marrone had help in making the decision to bench EJ, he was getting an insurection out of the wr corp.

 

they were very much seen on tv too.... thing is, they are already starting to do it to orton too. so.....

 

like i said in the other thread, woods would likely be well served to keep below the radar with his comments and public frustrations (though theyve certainly be informative for a fan). i wouldnt be terribly shocked if some of the frustration is not just at the qbs though. throwing that possibility out there.

[doro]

The problem with this team was not a rookie QB. It is rookie HC and OC. They still have no clue how to ran NFL offense.

[GG]

 

I was actually serious with that response. It's been the totality of the sequence of events since he started, and an evolving perspective and position on him. I like him to some degree, and think he has done well in a lot of ways. I used to like him more. I used to think it was impossible for him to be that petty, then I thought it was improbable, then I thought well, maybe, and now I think it's entirely possible.

 

It comes from the MW situation, the arguments with Whaley, watching his press conferences, my conversation with Whaley, the St Doug stuff I didn't used to believe. The Urbik and Pears situation. The stubbornness (or my perceived stubbornness) of this offense. The stuff the players say. And a few texts and blurbs from reliable sources.

 

That's why these pages are usually humorous. People get up in arms over perceived minor slights by the Sainted one. When, in reality it is a culmination of little things over time.

[26CornerBlitz]

Again more misinformation since when is 38 pass attempts per game not asking a qb to do much ? Thats how many pass attempts Orton has averaged through 9 games but all we needed from him was to manage the game and make a few timely passes ? The design of theoffense cause for nearly 40 attempts per game ?

 

As I said before some of you are in flat out denial . We even have people talking about 2 occasions where Orton missed an opportunity deep out nearly 60 attempts .

 

Has Orton been involved in a shootout where the defense was falling down and the team needed him to out duel the opposing QB? Outside of maybe the NE game, the answer is no? So what are you even arguing about with your misinformation silliness?

 

What kind of throws have they been asking him to make? What were the game situations (as in leading or trailing on the scoreboard) where they were asking him to throw? Any idiot can look at numbers and come to a false conclusion like you're doing. You can talk about denial all you want, but they have been giving him primarily short to intermediate passes within the pocket with good protection most of the time. If he can't make good decisions and accurate throws with what they're giving him, then why the hell does he represent the best chance to win? One TD vs. KC, None at MIA, one TD vs CLE, and two garbage TDs at DEN with the D giving up 17, 22, 10, and 24 points in those respective games. He's not holding up his end of the bargain with the offense's pathetic output and a lot of the failing is squarely on the shoulders of Kyle Orton with substandard QB play. You're the one who's in denial.

Edited December 11, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Freddie's Dead]

Dude, I have NO IDEA what to expect this offseason...at any level.

 

And the Barnwell piece posted in the other thread points to what a lot of folks in the national media have been forecasting these past couple weeks: an unprecedented, leaguewide QB shuffling.

 

If that comes to fruition, even to a small degree, it will have an impact on the Bills, even if we don't directly participate.

 

So I don't know. But I'm certain we'll head into TC with a straight up QB competition on our hands.

 

We'll have to directly participate, we have no choice. EJ, Orton, and Tuel going in to next season won't get it done.

[FireChan]

Has Orton been involved in a shootout where the defense was falling down and the team needed him to out duel the opposing QB? Outside of maybe the NE game, the answer is no? So what are you even arguing about with your misinformation silliness?

 

What kind of throws have they been asking him to make? What were the game situations (as in leading or trailing on the scoreboard) where they were asking him to throw? Any idiot can look at numbers and come to a false conclusion like you're doing. You can talk about denial all you want, but they have been giving him primarily short to intermediate passes within the pocket with good protection most of the time. If he can't make good decisions and accurate throws with what they're giving him, then why the hell does he represent the best chance to win? One TD vs. KC, None at MIA, one TD vs CLE, and two garbage TDs at DEN with the D giving up 17, 22, 10, and 24 points in those respective games. He's not holding up his send of the bargain with the offenses pathetic output and a lot of the failing is squarely on the shoulders of Kyle Orton with substandard QB play. You're the one who's in denial.

 

Gotta agree here. Even EJ would win games if he only had to throw 20 something times.

 

Orton's still the best chance on the roster.

[CardinalScotts]

If Whaley survives the off-season and stays as GM I think he fires Marrone.

 

there both back

[Rico]

Fwiw, Doug had virtually zero input on the hire of Marrone and his cronies and as a result currently has no emotional attachment to them whatsoever.

 

 

 

I would also add that a coach with an enormous ego unaccompanied by an enormous brain will never field a team that plays to its talent level.

Thank you. You are FAR more credible than the voice-of-authority insider wanna-bes that post in here. Edited December 12, 2014 by Rico

[Simon]

Simon - appears to be shocking to me. Whaley was given the keys but someone else chose the car for him? At what point did/does he get the authority to make this his team top to bottom?

 

If we want to go with a car analogy I'd say that Doug has been driving for the last year or two. But don't believe for a second that Mama Russ and the rest of the Brandon clan isn't crowded into the backseat trying to yell directions in his ear. I think addressing that situation is the single most productive thing the Pegulas could do in the near term.

 

 

By saying Whaley didn't agree with the hiring of Marrone, I have visions of Brandon, Buddy, and Whaley sitting in that Arizona hotel room and Whaley pounding his shoe on the table in defiance.

While nobody is likely to come out and say it, I think that Whaley's ill-considered promotion of the Wannstedt hiring cost him some credibility (as well as some self-confidence), negating any ability for him to go Krushchev on anybody during that search.

Perhaps saying he had little input was poorly stated; I think saying he had little influence would be more accurate.

[K-9]

Thank you. You are FAR more credible than the voice-of-authority insider wanna-bes that post in here.

 

I take that as a shot at my post. The thing is, regardless of my or anyone else's past affiliation with the organization and various employees within it, you don't have to be an insider to know that Whaley played an integral role in the hire. It was reported on ad nauseam the entire week they were there.

 

Normally I'd be kind enough to provide links to the various media reports I refer to but, given your particular level of snark, I've decided you don't warrant the consideration.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

While nobody is likely to come out and say it, I think that Whaley's ill-considered promotion of the Wannstedt hiring cost him some credibility (as well as some self-confidence), negating any ability for him to go Krushchev on anybody during that search.

Perhaps saying he had little input was poorly stated; I think saying he had little influence would be more accurate.

 

Ah, those Pittsburgh ties that bind. Must be the ferrous shavings in the Iron City beer.

 

If his advocacy of the Wanny promotion, which was really a coaching hire by Gailey and one which Gailey had free reign to exercise, is a mark against Whaley, then his advocacy for both Pettine and Scwhartz cancels that out in spades.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 12, 2014 by K-9

[Kelly the Dog]

 

If we want to go with a car analogy I'd say that Doug has been driving for the last year or two. But don't believe for a second that Mama Russ and the rest of the Brandon clan isn't crowded into the backseat trying to yell directions in his ear. I think addressing that situation is the single most productive thing the Pegulas could do in the near term.

 

 

While nobody is likely to come out and say it, I think that Whaley's ill-considered promotion of the Wannstedt hiring cost him some credibility (as well as some self-confidence), negating any ability for him to go Krushchev on anybody during that search.

Perhaps saying he had little input was poorly stated; I think saying he had little influence would be more accurate.

Hide less. Re-appear more. That's an order.

[Ted William's frozen head]

 

 

It's be one of the worst moves in team history to get rid of Whaley. He's made his mistakes but for a first time GM, he's been damn good. He'd get hired in a second.

 

 

 

Agreed. No one can touch Orton's ability to fall to the ground to avoid hits; turn the ball over; and struggle to score a td.

........Except EJ.

[Utah John]

If Marrone won't fire Hackett, then Whaley fires Marrone.

 

Whaley is a smart guy who understands what the team needs. Trading for Brown seemed like a stretch but he's intended as Spiller's replacement. Trading for Mike Williams looked OK but then Chris Hogan outplayed him and won the game day slot from his special teams experience. Chris Williams was a swing and a miss. Jerry Hughes for whatshisname...are you kidding me? Whaley should be brought up on charges. Preston Brown and Nigel Bradham, and Kiko coming back, along maybe with Spikes although Spikes seems to have tailed off -- great D line, great LBs -- just need another CB and maybe a backup safety. Concentrate on the O line in this year's draft and get lucky with a FA QB, and suddenly Whaley will look like a genius and even Marrone will look smart. IF they replace Hackett.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Utah John

[KOKBILLS]

I would also add that a coach with an enormous ego unaccompanied by an enormous brain will never field a team that plays to its talent level.

 

Seriously good statement...

 

Could not have said it better myself...And God knows I've tried over these past two years...

[Gugny]

Seriously good statement...

 

Could not have said it better myself...And God knows I've tried over these past two years...

That holds true in every field of work. From a ditch digger to the President of the United States. It's not a revelation.

[BADOLBILZ]

Great thread.

 

Lot's of good takes from good posters.

 

Some inside-type takes, including an appreciated Simon sighting.

 

Two of the kings of stubborn, cocamame takes...CBiscuit and Cat...arguing and Biscuit finishing it by accusing Cat of being a Jauron sympathizer. You couldn't make it up.

 

All I will add is this.

 

Coaches are judged by wins and losses......and GM's are judged by their QB choices.

 

There are no winners here.....just a question of which loser is more directly accountable.

 

Whaley has been the GM for only one full offseason but he was very instrumental in personnel dept here that has failed to get a QB of any quality since he was hired.