frustrating usage of sammy watkins

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

same game plan that had us going 7 quarters without a TD against the Chiefs and Dolphins, buddy.

the game plans do vary according to the team you are playing.... So not the same

[thewildrabbit]

Calm your Va JJ

 

The reason why were in a 6-5 right now and not in playoff position is because we continue to not feed Watkins enough. Hes our best player, he needs the ball more than hes gotten the last 3 games. We have a lot invested in him and we need to utilize that investment. 2 of the last 3 games we've lost and hes had only 30 yards receiving each time. When he gets the ball we win. Thats all im saying.

Good point when you look at the targets, and catches for the season

 

Chicago 4 targets, 3 rec, 31 yards

Miami 11 targets, 8 rec...117 yards 1 TD

San Diego 8 targets, 2 rec, 19 yards

Houston 9 targets, 4 rec, 30 yards

Detroit 12 targets, 7 rec, 87 yards

New England 3 targets, 2 rec, 27 yards...a decoy

Minnesota 14 targets, 9 rec, 122 yards, 2 TD's

NY Jets, 6 targets, 3 rec 157 yards

KC, 10 targets, 4 rec 27 yards. KC had the #1 pass defense in the league

Miami, 7 targets 3 rec 32 yards --one rushing attempt for 3 yards. Miami had the #2 pass defense in the league

NY Jets, 5 targets 3 rec 35 yards

 

As we can see the more Sammy is targeted the more he catches, and the better chance the Bills have to win.

 

On one hand Sammy is ranked 23rd in the NFL, and has more yards then Vincent Jackson & Jimmy Graham. On the other hand the Bills gave up 3 draft picks / 3 players for this kid, and they really should be force feeding him the ball every game to justify spending that many picks on any player. After 12 games Sammy isn't even ranked as the best rookie WR in this years draft, as that honor goes to #11 ranked Mike Evans. Evans has had 2 100 yard games and a 200 yard game. Next up after that is #18 Kelvin Benjamin with #37 Odell Beckham quickly catching up.

 

What we don't know is how many times the Bills OC calls for Sammy to be the primary target, and how many times Orton sees him covered and goes to another receiver. What I do know is that Sammy should be seeing at the very least 10 targets a game. From the looks of things the current OC has only tried once all season to put Watkins in a run the ball situation, and he could be seeing one to two looks in that aspect a game. End around's, reverses etc.

 

When you have such an explosive a weapon on offense, and the teams best offensive weapon. It just makes common sense to try and feed him the ball as much as you can. JMHO

[Billsfan1972]

In the KC game forget the targets, as many as I remember were just throwaways. I see the alignments and it is almost always the same with Sammy on the outside and usually on the sidelines. I want to see him in the slot at times and hidden coming over the middle. I want to see him used more like Golden Tate.

 

Interesting how lousy Detroit's offense has looked the last two weeks vs. Arizona & NE and Stafford not looking to Golden Tate (most passes second half vs. NE were uncatchable) and with megatron back.

[MDH]

My favorite play of the game was the WR screen to Gragg while Sammy blocks for him. If this isn't a OC outsmarting himself I don't know what is.

 

Then again, after watching Gragg blow the easy block that would have gotten Freddie into the endzone earlier in the game I suppose they did use the better of the two blockers.

 

All that being said overall it was a solid game plan by the Bills and while they certainly weren't perfect it's hard to fault much in a blow out win.

[TallskiWallski83]

here we are again. Another anemic putrid showing by the offense. Another game where Sammy is targeted under 10 times in a game.

 

 

Am I the only one here who understands that our offense plays our best when Sammy is playing his best?

[FireChan]

here we are again. Another anemic putrid showing by the offense. Another game where Sammy is targeted under 10 times in a game.

 

 

Am I the only one here who understands that our offense plays our best when Sammy is playing his best?

 

I think after you target a guy 9 times, and only get 3 completions out of it, it's okay to not target him again.

[TallskiWallski83]

I think after you target a guy 9 times, and only get 3 completions out of it, it's okay to not target him again.

 

Only half of those "targets" were even catchable balls. Once again, our offense failed to figure out ways to get him open in space. Once again, Orton missed Sammy wide open on a crossing out that set us up with 4th and short in the opponents territory.

 

This stuff keeps repeating itself for a reason. We are DEAD last in red zone TD % and our offense continues to fail at getting the ball in the hands of its best player.

 

Our defense is NOT going to be able to bail us out like this vs GB, NE or DEN

Edited December 1, 2014 by TallskiWallski83

[FireChan]

Only half of those "targets" were even catchable balls. Once again, our offense failed to figure out ways to get him open in space. Once again, Orton missed Sammy wide open on a crossing out that set us up with 4th and short in the opponents territory.

 

This stuff keeps repeating itself for a reason. We are DEAD last in red zone TD % and our offense continues to fail at getting the ball in the hands of its best player.

 

Our defense is NOT going to be able to bail us out like this vs GB, NE or DEN

 

Sure. But you're complaining about his usage, right? It's not like we're not trying to get him the ball, we just aren't succeeding.

Edited December 1, 2014 by FireChan

[TallskiWallski83]

Sure. But you're complaining about his usage, right? It's not like we're not trying to get him the ball, we just aren't succeeding.

 

were doing both depending on which game you look at. Either way its a failure of our offense and if we dont right the ship this week, we are going to be sad panda fans.

[thebandit27]

Sure. But you're complaining about his usage, right? It's not like we're not trying to get him the ball, we just aren't succeeding.

 

Agreed. Yesterday it was a simple function of the QB being unable to hit an open WR. Short stuff, deep stuff, inside, outside; didn't matter. Orton was off the mark again, repeatedly.

 

Frustrating to watch really.

[The Big Cat]

Agreed. Yesterday it was a simple function of the QB being unable to hit an open WR. Short stuff, deep stuff, inside, outside; didn't matter. Orton was off the mark again, repeatedly.

 

Frustrating to watch really.

 

Orton was terrible yesterday. And right on cue, the Hacket-sucks threads spread like wildfire! Incredible how that always happens.

[FireChan]

were doing both depending on which game you look at. Either way its a failure of our offense and if we dont right the ship this week, we are going to be sad panda fans.

 

Apparently, you were looking at this game though.

 

Another anemic putrid showing by the offense. Another game where Sammy is targeted under 10 times in a game.

[QCity]

Agreed. Yesterday it was a simple function of the QB being unable to hit an open WR. Short stuff, deep stuff, inside, outside; didn't matter. Orton was off the mark again, repeatedly.

 

Frustrating to watch really.

 

I think when the A-22 comes out this week people are going to see that he was rarely open. That 2nd INT was entirely on Sammy -- he has to make that cut and fight Haden for the ball. After that play I can understand why they started targeting Woods more.

[thebandit27]

Orton was terrible yesterday. And right on cue, the Hacket-sucks threads spread like wildfire! Incredible how that always happens.

 

I do wonder how good Hackett might be if he had competent QB play...I have my doubts though. Situationally he's very hit-and-miss.

 

I think when the A-22 comes out this week people are going to see that he was rarely open. That 2nd INT was entirely on Sammy -- he has to make that cut and fight Haden for the ball. After that play I can understand why they started targeting Woods more.

 

That may be...being at the game it looked like there were more than a handful of times he was open. The problem with defining "open" is that it has a different meaning for different QBs. I say Sammy was open on the deep ball that Orton overthrew him on; others may say that's a tough throw for a guy like Orton (I believe an NFL QB needs to hit that throw). I did think that Haden beat Sammy to the INT; not sure if they were on the same page there, as that's typically a catch that Sammy fights for inside.

 

One thing that I haven't noticed anyone mentioning is that the Browns took two very smart defensive holding calls against Sammy. On both, he pulled nasty double-moves (one on Haden, one on Skrine) that would've had him running free in the secondary for a TD (provided that Orton didn't massively over or under throw him).

 

Smart penalties both times.

[TallskiWallski83]

Orton predetermines where hes going with the ball prior to the snap the majority of the time and yesterday he couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with some of the throws he was making. Also, everytime we are in a 3rd and long situation and you know the blitz is coming orton either A. Chucks the ball out as fast as possible to a pre-determined WR or B. Gets sacked.

 

 

Its pathetic.

[PromoTheRobot]

Watkins is still nursing the groin. That is all.

[QCity]

That may be...being at the game it looked like there were more than a handful of times he was open. The problem with defining "open" is that it has a different meaning for different QBs. I say Sammy was open on the deep ball that Orton overthrew him on; others may say that's a tough throw for a guy like Orton (I believe an NFL QB needs to hit that throw). I did think that Haden beat Sammy to the INT; not sure if they were on the same page there, as that's typically a catch that Sammy fights for inside.

 

One thing that I haven't noticed anyone mentioning is that the Browns took two very smart defensive holding calls against Sammy. On both, he pulled nasty double-moves (one on Haden, one on Skrine) that would've had him running free in the secondary for a TD (provided that Orton didn't massively over or under throw him).

 

Certainly some plays where he was open and KO couldn't get him the ball, but I think there's far more where Haden completely snuffed him out and KO was forced to go to his 2nd or 3rd option. He's definitely playing hurt and doesn't have the same burst out of his breaks, he was riding the bike on the sidelines and looked lost.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

He was targeted 9 times. Had a couple drops and was covered the other times. Geesh.

[birdog1960]

maybe if we stopped trying to justify the trade, we could judge his play more objectively. from that prospective he looks like a promising rookie receiver. unfortunately, we do need to consider his cost from the trade...

[Jauronimo]

maybe if we stopped trying to justify the trade, we could judge his play more objectively. from that prospective he looks like a promising rookie receiver. unfortunately, we do need to consider his cost from the trade...

Refuting your own posts now? I guess your PPP therapy is working. Or failing. Not sure. Either way I think this is the first confirmed case of PPPTSD.

[2003Contenders]

I actually think Hackett tried to come up with some plays to get the ball in Sammy's hands on multiple occasions, including some rarely seen screens yesterday. I think Sammy's lack of success yesterday was multi-fold:

 

1. Joe Hayden is a genuine shutdown corner

2. Sammy is not fully healed from the groin injury. Has he had a big game since?

3. Orton was particularly awful yesterday.

[dave mcbride]

I do not think Watkins is healthy. I wish a reporter would look into that.

[Luxy312]

Healthy or not healthy, I would rather have Orton throwing to someone else in single coverage than Sammy in double coverage. That's what it comes down to for me. You take what the defense is giving you instead of drawing up a game plan to "force" getting the ball to someone that the other team was hell bent on keeping out of the action. See Jimmy Graham against the Steelers this weekend. Same thing.

[K-9]

I actually think Hackett tried to come up with some plays to get the ball in Sammy's hands on multiple occasions, including some rarely seen screens yesterday. I think Sammy's lack of success yesterday was multi-fold:

 

1. Joe Hayden is a genuine shutdown corner

2. Sammy is not fully healed from the groin injury. Has he had a big game since?

3. Orton was particularly awful yesterday.

 

Taking nothing away from Hayden, but Sammy beat him on several occasions yesterday and right off of Hayden's press coverage, which is the strength of his game. And I don't think Sammy was singled covered all day, either, (I'll have to see the all 22 to confirm that). But on the 4th down conversion to Woods, Sammy was TRIPLE COVERED. It's obvious that DCs have decided that Sammy Watkins is not going to beat them. Period. But he's getting open by NFL standards and it's a shame we don't have a QB that can get him the ball.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Taking nothing away from Hayden, but Sammy beat him on several occasions yesterday and right off of Hayden's press coverage, which is the strength of his game. And I don't think Sammy was singled covered all day, either, (I'll have to see the all 22 to confirm that). But on the 4th down conversion to Woods, Sammy was TRIPLE COVERED. It's obvious that DCs have decided that Sammy Watkins is not going to beat them. Period. But he's getting open by NFL standards and it's a shame we don't have a QB that can get him the ball.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm glad (almost relieved) to hear you say this, as it's been my opinion as well the last 3-4 weeks. I was worried that my "NFL open" meter wasn't calibrated properly, but clearly, that appears not to be the case.

 

I like to believe that I have a trained eye based on experience; I happen to believe you do as well.

[Gray Beard]

Healthy or not healthy, I would rather have Orton throwing to someone else in single coverage than Sammy in double coverage. That's what it comes down to for me. You take what the defense is giving you instead of drawing up a game plan to "force" getting the ball to someone that the other team was hell bent on keeping out of the action. See Jimmy Graham against the Steelers this weekend. Same thing.

See EJ forcing the ball to SJ13 last year. I think EJ actually played better when SJ13 was injured.

I agree, take what the defense gives you. I think it makes Orton look better for not forcing the ball to the anointed #1.

 

In another thread, somebody said ability is no good without availability. The "Sammy is injured" stuff makes me scared that it could be something that dogs him in the future. Time will tell.

[All_Pro_Bills]

Healthy or not healthy, I would rather have Orton throwing to someone else in single coverage than Sammy in double coverage. That's what it comes down to for me. You take what the defense is giving you instead of drawing up a game plan to "force" getting the ball to someone that the other team was hell bent on keeping out of the action. See Jimmy Graham against the Steelers this weekend. Same thing.

The big difference between the Saints and Bills in your example is the Saints put up 5 TD's with Graham getting lots of attention and the Bills 1 and a lot of FG's with Watkins being the focus of attention. Until they 'hurt' the defense and force them out of their coverage schemes of keying on Watkins with some significant points on the board from mulitple TD's they'll continue to face this strategy. Along with the other obvious difference being the OC dialing up the right calls and the QB executing on them.

Edited December 1, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills

[birdog1960]

Refuting your own posts now? I guess your PPP therapy is working. Or failing. Not sure. Either way I think this is the first confirmed case of PPPTSD.

let me break it down for you mono- syl-ab-ic-ly: he's just a rook-ie and should be con-sid-ered such. Too bad so much was paid for him and so much needs to be ex-pect-ed from him.

 

O-K?

[Jauronimo]

let me break it down for you mono- syl-ab-ic-ly: he's just a rook-ie and should be con-sid-ered such. Too bad so much was paid for him and so much needs to be ex-pect-ed from him.

 

O-K?

May-be if you c-ould go one sen-tence with-out con-tra-dict-ing your-self you would-n't sound so dumb?

[Max997]

granted, he dropped two very catchable balls. But after watching the way the Giants target ODB, the panthers with Benjamin and the Bucs with Evans, it frustrates the heck out of me that Watkins continues to be targeted anything less than 10x per game

 

 

With all that said, way to go Robert Woods

 

Same can be said about Spiller, absolutely amazing how Hackett and Marrone have not been able to utilize these guys as much as he should be...unacceptable

 

this is not on the QB or the offensive line, this is clearly on the guys running the offense

Edited December 1, 2014 by Max997

[dave mcbride]

Turns out he is hurt, as per the stories on the front page.

[CardinalScotts]

very few rookie wide outs put up great numbers....with the exception of the ones on crappy teams who throw it 50 times a game always behind......they roll the coverage his way and Woods has to take advantage and Hogan as well.....If your a d coor and you want to take a player away you can...the other guys have to make you pay

[Deranged Rhino]

Turns out he is hurt, as per the stories on the front page.

 

Poppycock! JTSP assures us he's healthy.

[enlightener]

Orton predetermines where hes going with the ball prior to the snap the majority of the time and yesterday he couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with some of the throws he was making. Also, everytime we are in a 3rd and long situation and you know the blitz is coming orton either A. Chucks the ball out as fast as possible to a pre-determined WR or B. Gets sacked.

 

 

Its pathetic.

dear mrs watkins, i think you are talking about trent edwards, who hasnt played here in years. Please ask your son to catch the balls hes thrown and not go down instantly in fear of contact. He will then get thrown the ball more than 10 times a game to make 3 catches.

[FireChan]

Let's be more like Tampa, the Giants, and Carolina with their rookie WR's. Those teams are pretty successful this year.

[Agent 91]

 

 

Even when you score 38 points against a division rival?

 

 

The Jets give up an average of 24 points per game...when they're not playing against the Bills. This year we hung 43 and 38 on them. But please, let's critique the game plan.

 

To be fair. Watkins ate lunch in the first Jets game. He took over that one.

[thebandit27]

Poppycock! JTSP assures us he's healthy.

 

JTSP also said that Sammy's lack of success was because teams stopped playing him in press coverage--which is 100% the opposite of what happened on Sunday. Haden was in press man all-day, and got toasted on two different double-moves by Sammy that resulted in defensive holding penalties (because otherwise it was Sammy all alone downfield for a TD).

 

dear mrs watkins, i think you are talking about trent edwards, who hasnt played here in years. Please ask your son to catch the balls hes thrown and not go down instantly in fear of contact. He will then get thrown the ball more than 10 times a game to make 3 catches.

 

Cute, but reeks of a guy that doesn't watch the game. Sammy was targeted 9 times, not thrown to...massive difference. Targeted means the QB meant to throw it to him...if Sammy is targeted with a pass that lands 9 feet away from him on a back shoulder throw, I'm going to blame the QB, not the WR.

 

Right now, the QB play is awful, and it's diminishing the impact of our best WR. It's not hard to see at all.

[Maury Ballstein]

you could have just posted "hi, i dont understand football, I like one guy, and i want him to make every play no matter what."

 

Why cant woods be the focal point? he can actually catch. Why should a double covered guy get the ball "no matter what" especially when he drops passes and goes down like a little girl before he gets tackled?

 

dont play then...if you cant play hard, dont play at all. or are you part of the little-girl-excuse-making-club?

 

Yea! the next round of players less tough then "the enlightener" are here.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

JTSP also said that Sammy's lack of success was because teams stopped playing him in press coverage--which is 100% the opposite of what happened on Sunday. Haden was in press man all-day, and got toasted on two different double-moves by Sammy that resulted in defensive holding penalties (because otherwise it was Sammy all alone downfield for a TD).

 

Cute, but reeks of a guy that doesn't watch the game. Sammy was targeted 9 times, not thrown to...massive difference. Targeted means the QB meant to throw it to him...if Sammy is targeted with a pass that lands 9 feet away from him on a back shoulder throw, I'm going to blame the QB, not the WR.

 

Right now, the QB play is awful, and it's diminishing the impact of our best WR. It's not hard to see at all.

 

Absolutely. EJ and Orton have cost Sammy as much as his bum wheel and broken rib ever has. For the life of me I cannot fathom how there are still pass plays in the offense where Sammy isn't even a part of the progression... I'm going to the Packers game and I'm most excited to be able to watch the game down field live for once to see what's going on beyond the all 22s.

[C.Biscuit97]

Absolutely. EJ and Orton have cost Sammy as much as his bum wheel and broken rib ever has. For the life of me I cannot fathom how there are still pass plays in the offense where Sammy isn't even a part of the progression... I'm going to the Packers game and I'm most excited to be able to watch the game down field live for once to see what's going on beyond the all 22s.

 

Watkins murdered my fantasy teams.