frustrating usage of sammy watkins

[Wayne Cubed]

I'll take Sammy stats and win over Odell Beckhams crazy catch and a loss all day long.

[YoloinOhio]

I think we know that Pettine will put Haden on an island with Sammy next week, so we will see what he can do with that. Let's hope it isn't a repeat of Sammy vs. Revis. I don't think Haden is as good as Revis, but he's better than a lot of corners he's faced this season.

[BackInDaDay]

I think we know that Pettine will put Haden on an island with Sammy next week, so we will see what he can do with that. Let's hope it isn't a repeat of Sammy vs. Revis. I don't think Haden is as good as Revis, but he's better than a lot of corners he's faced this season.

good point. Watkins has to beat single coverage there. remember who Pettine coached defense for. it's all about freeing men up to bring pressure, and shutdown corners are the key

[thebandit27]

I think we know that Pettine will put Haden on an island with Sammy next week, so we will see what he can do with that. Let's hope it isn't a repeat of Sammy vs. Revis. I don't think Haden is as good as Revis, but he's better than a lot of corners he's faced this season.

 

It's all going to start with the OC and QB being willing to challenge Haden. They should be, just as they should've been willing to challenge Revis.

 

We shall see...

[YoloinOhio]

It's all going to start with the OC and QB being willing to challenge Haden. They should be, just as they should've been willing to challenge Revis.

 

We shall see...

If the watch the film they will see that Haden has been beaten a lot this year though he will pick you off at times and is still one of the better corners in the league. However Skrine, Gilbert and Williams are considerably worse than Haden so they may pick on them.

[CountDorkula]

If the watch the film they will see that Haden has been beaten a lot this year though he will pick you off at times and is still one of the better corners in the league. However Skrine, Gilbert and Williams are considerably worse than Haden so they may pick on them.

 

Bunch formations so Sammy can get a free release.

[thebandit27]

If the watch the film they will see that Haden has been beaten a lot this year though he will pick you off at times and is still one of the better corners in the league. However Skrine, Gilbert and Williams are considerably worse than Haden so they may pick on them.

 

I've never been a huge Haden guy...always felt he was overrated. This year is kind of supporting that view...I think Sammy can have his way with him if Pettine does indeed choose to man up.

 

I would run the ball like crazy and work the short passing game early on...force Pettine to walk Whitner down into the box and then hit Sammy on a few deep routes off PA.

[YoloinOhio]

I've never been a huge Haden guy...always felt he was overrated. This year is kind of supporting that view...I think Sammy can have his way with him if Pettine does indeed choose to man up.

 

I would run the ball like crazy and work the short passing game early on...force Pettine to walk Whitner down into the box and then hit Sammy on a few deep routes off PA.

They should be able to run it... Browns run D is worse than KC.

[Billsfan1972]

A win is a win, but 5 targets just is not enough. After watching Odell Beckham and a # of easy catches he made (and a catch for all time), says it should not be hard to have formations that get him the ball. The first drop was actually a badly times pass by Orton. Watkins had no time to react.

 

Get it to him in space and not just on the sidelines.

[thebandit27]

They should be able to run it... Browns run D is worse than KC.

 

Shocking considering who their HC is

 

In all seriousness though, you are right. The KC game plan should be in full effect; with the one caveat that they need to target Sammy, to the tune of a dozen times or more.

[Wayne Cubed]

A win is a win, but 5 targets just is not enough. After watching Odell Beckham and a # of easy catches he made (and a catch for all time), says it should not be hard to have formations that get him the ball. The first drop was actually a badly times pass by Orton. Watkins had no time to react.

 

Get it to him in space and not just on the sidelines.

 

And yet the Giants lost.

[thebandit27]

A win is a win, but 5 targets just is not enough. After watching Odell Beckham and a # of easy catches he made (and a catch for all time), says it should not be hard to have formations that get him the ball. The first drop was actually a badly times pass by Orton. Watkins had no time to react.

 

Get it to him in space and not just on the sidelines.

 

Agreed--I would prefer to see a concerted effort to get him the ball. The games in which they've done it: Miami and Minnesota, they've been successful.

[The Big Cat]

And yet the Giants lost.

 

...8 times already this year.

 

Jesus, they're 3-8. But at least that guy made that one catch that one time in a losing game.

[YoloinOhio]

I do want to see the all-22 because I think there were times Sammy was open and Orton went elsewhere.

 

...8 times already this year.

 

Jesus, they're 3-8. But at least that guy made that one catch that one time in a losing game.

GOAT! lol. Let's see him make a GW TD catch too. Edited November 25, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

And yet the Giants lost.

 

 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

And yet the Giants lost.

So? Not the point at all. Forget too the targets, they just are not throwing catchable balls to Watkins. Hope it is that he is not 100%.

[Wayne Cubed]

So? Not the point at all. Forget too the targets, they just are not throwing catchable balls to Watkins. Hope it is that he is not 100%.

 

They aren't throwing to Watkins because the Jets were rolling a safety over to his side. He absolutely torched the Jets in the first game, no way Rex was going to let that happen. Enter Bob Woods. Why force it to Watkins if Woods is open and being productive. I get that he's the shiny new toy, but if your game plan is working no need to force things. Watkins still has the most targets on the team.

[PolishDave]

So? Not the point at all. Forget too the targets, they just are not throwing catchable balls to Watkins. Hope it is that he is not 100%.

Balls that hit you in the hands are "by definition" catchable. And if a receiver is supposed to be a "great" receiver, then he should be able to catch a ball that he gets two hands on.

 

I don't expect him to catch every single one. But I do expect my number one guy to catch 9 out of 10 he gets 2 hands on.

[Billsfan1972]

Yes a few drops, but targets include many that were thrown away (looking particularly at KC & Miami games) and uncatchable. Look at the # of easy catches and routes many top receivers get.

[PolishDave]

I have no doubt that on some of those plays after the first quarter or so, Orton probably didn't even look to Sammy. Put yourself in Orton's shoes for a moment.

 

Earlier in the game he threw a few passes to Sammy into coverage and those passes went incomplete. He threw a few passes to Robert Woods into single coverage and moved the chains.

 

Throwing into heavy coverage trying to get the ball to Sammy isn't working. Throwing into lighter coverage with Woods is working because Woods is catching everything you throw at him.

 

Why in hell wouldn't you keep targeting Woods? You would be stupid not to.

 

Orton did what a smart veteran quarterback would do. He found something that was working and he kept doing it because the defense showed they couldn't beat it. People are making way too much out of this "not throwing enough to Sammy" idea. What Orton did in this game is exactly what he should have done and I commend him for it fully.

[chris heff]

 

 

He was in the backfield for a 4th and 1.

This was the most ridiculous formation of the season. You have to set that up by actually having used that formation previously and having pitched the ball to Watkins running wide. Then maybe you spread out the D. Calling that play then is just unbelievable.

[The Big Cat]

This was the most ridiculous formation of the season. You have to set that up by actually having used that formation previously and having pitched the ball to Watkins running wide. Then maybe you spread out the D. Calling that play then is just unbelievable.

 

Yeah, I can't believe they called the play that had two lineman double teaming the defender who still made it into the backfield. Why is THAT play in the playbook?

[TallskiWallski83]

How many bubble screens have they run to sammy? How about fades in the endzone? What about reverses?

 

The guy is our stud #1 WR. Stud #1 Wr's get targeted 10+ a game no matter what the opposition is doing. In the NFL you get the ball into the hands of your best players, regardless of opposition scheme.

 

First and goal? Line up sammy out wide and throw a fade or backshoulder throw and let him make a play. The majority of the time he will. Were dead last in red zone offense for a reason and its because Hackett doesnt make a concerted effort to get Sammy involved.

 

38-3, Ill take it. But Sammy was only targeted 5 times this game and that makes 3 games in a row where hes not the focal point of our offense. Its becoming a pattern and I dont like it.

[Security]

Sammy has to make catches when the ball is near his, Woods did, I saw many guys make catches he dropped yesterday.

[section122]

A win is a win, but 5 targets just is not enough.

 

38-3, Ill take it. But

 

I said it yesterday and I will say it again today.... Where in the world do Bills fans get this sense of entitlement? A win is a win but and 38-3 I'll take it but?!?!?!!?!?! Are you serious? The Bills lost a home game, played a division rival with short rest, and blew their doors off. You want to complain about how they got 38 points?!?!?! Did it not happen how you wanted it to?!?!?! They ran a lot of successful plays last night and there is zero to B word about. You know what else a #1 WR does for a team? Open up other players to be successful. That is what happened last night. The Jets were so concerned with stopping Sammy they failed at pretty much every other aspect of the game. The Jets were succesful doing what they wanted to do and they lost 38-3!

 

Agreed--I would prefer to see a concerted effort to get him the ball. The games in which they've done it: Miami and Minnesota, they've been successful.

 

They were awful successful last night as well without doing it. Are you saying they should have forced the ball to him even though it wasn't there and avoid open players to do so? I don't think you are but that is what it sounds like....

Edited November 25, 2014 by section122

[Lofton80]

I think Orton just wont throw to a double covered receiver. Ryan said in his post game they planned to take him out of the game and Woods killed them. A 35 point win is a good trade off for not utulizing him more.

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

How often was Beckham targeted in the second half last night once Dallas started doubling him?

 

I hear what ur saying but Rex simply wasnt going to let Sammy beat them again. In saying that there is no reason why they can't run some screens with him like he ran in college.

That is a good idea, but this team is awful at executing screens. Even when blockers get out in front of the receiver, they usually miss their blocks. That has been frustratingly true of OL, TEs and other WRs attempting to block on screen plays.

[TallskiWallski83]

I said it yesterday and I will say it again today.... Where in the world do Bills fans get this sense of entitlement? A win is a win but and 38-3 I'll take it but?!?!?!!?!?! Are you serious? The Bills lost a home game, played a division rival with short rest, and blew their doors off. You want to complain about how they got 38 points?!?!?! Did it not happen how you wanted it to?!?!?! They ran a lot of successful plays last night and there is zero to B word about. You know what else a #1 WR does for a team? Open up other players to be successful. That is what happened last night. The Jets were so concerned with stopping Sammy they failed at pretty much every other aspect of the game. The Jets were succesful doing what they wanted to do and they lost 38-3!

 

 

 

They were awful successful last night as well without doing it. Are you saying they should have forced the ball to him even though it wasn't there and avoid open players to do so? I don't think you are but that is what it sounds like....

 

Calm your Va JJ

 

The reason why were in a 6-5 right now and not in playoff position is because we continue to not feed Watkins enough. Hes our best player, he needs the ball more than hes gotten the last 3 games. We have a lot invested in him and we need to utilize that investment. 2 of the last 3 games we've lost and hes had only 30 yards receiving each time. When he gets the ball we win. Thats all im saying.

Edited November 25, 2014 by TallskiWallski83

[BuffaloBillsForever]

The reason they are 6-5 right now and not in a playoff position is due to questionable offensive coaching and inconsistent QB play.

 

With how well the other two units have played this year, it really boils down to the deficiencies in their red zone offense with the o-line, qb play and coaching (HC, OC) all being important variables.

Edited November 25, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever

[thebandit27]

 

They were awful successful last night as well without doing it. Are you saying they should have forced the ball to him even though it wasn't there and avoid open players to do so? I don't think you are but that is what it sounds like....

 

No. I am saying that 3 consecutive games without your best offensive player being the focus of the offensive game plan is misguided. I fully understand that there will be some games that teams sell out to stop Sammy, and in those games the other targets should flourish. Those games should not be common, and definitely shouldn't occur consecutively.

 

That's all...definitely not complaining with a huge win.

[TallskiWallski83]

The reason they are 6-5 right now and not in a playoff position is due to questionable offensive coaching and inconsistent QB play.

 

Orton pre-determines where hes going with the football a lot. Hackett needs to make sure Watkins is the primary read on enough plays to get him 10+ targets a game. Its really that simple

 

Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, Jordy Nelson, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Demarius Thomas, ODB, Kelv Benj, Watkins.....all these guys need to be fed the football

 

Watkins getting 5 shots a game to make an impact play is just a terrible offensive strategy.

[The Big Cat]

Watkins getting 5 shots a game to make an impact play is just a terrible offensive strategy.

 

Even when you score 38 points against a division rival?

 

 

The Jets give up an average of 24 points per game...when they're not playing against the Bills. This year we hung 43 and 38 on them. But please, let's critique the game plan.

[TallskiWallski83]

Even when you score 38 points against a division rival?

 

 

The Jets give up an average of 24 points per game...when they're not playing against the Bills. This year we hung 43 and 38 on them. But please, let's critique the game plan.

 

 

14 of those points we hung up on them were from TWO catches from Watkins.

 

If you dont feed your best player, you are going to lose more often than you will win over the long run. The Bills usage of Watkins the last 3 weeks IS CONCERNING, and it has nothing to do with us winning.

 

We are not going to be playing the goddamn Jets (possibly the worst team in the NFL) every weekend.

[The Big Cat]

14 of those points we hung up on them were from TWO catches from Watkins.

 

If you dont feed your best player, you are going to lose more often than you will win over the long run. The Bills usage of Watkins the last 3 weeks IS CONCERNING, and it has nothing to do with us winning.

 

We are not going to be playing the goddamn Jets (possibly the worst team in the NFL) every weekend.

 

So you're pissed about an offensive game plan that got us 38 points. Okay. Cool.

[TallskiWallski83]

So you're pissed about an offensive game plan that got us 38 points. Okay. Cool.

 

 

same game plan that had us going 7 quarters without a TD against the Chiefs and Dolphins, buddy.

Edited November 25, 2014 by TallskiWallski83

[Rockinon]

Calm your Va JJ

 

The reason why were in a 6-5 right now and not in playoff position is because we continue to not feed Watkins enough. Hes our best player, he needs the ball more than hes gotten the last 3 games. We have a lot invested in him and we need to utilize that investment. 2 of the last 3 games we've lost and hes had only 30 yards receiving each time. When he gets the ball we win. Thats all im saying.

BTW Watkins was still listed on the injury report early in the week as a limited participant. I also did notice some balls going in his direction, though limited due to double coverage. As far as I'm concerned, the Jets effed up by doubling Sammy. I can see it if he was 100%. I just don't believe that he is. Maybe next week.

 

So you're pissed about an offensive game plan that got us 38 points. Okay. Cool.

No, he's probably pissed because he had Sammy in his fantasy league.

[3rdand12]

good point. Watkins has to beat single coverage there. remember who Pettine coached defense for. it's all about freeing men up to bring pressure, and shutdown corners are the key

Don't forget. Its not just Sammy who needs to beat the defender . Orton has a major role in anything Watkins accomplishes , or doesnt. if he draws a safety and then Woods Hogan Williams Goodwin get the ball and move the chains i am fine with that. Watkins is still very young to the NFL playing under two QBs already with very different style and method. and playcalling changes to boot.

At some point in the future Orton will have to throw to Sammy and let him make the play on these here "shutdown" corners. That why we have him here.

I think they will

 

Orton throws to who he wants to. regardless of draft pick or fans concerns.

Those early drops did two things . Kept the Jets thinking Watkins is a favorite target and opened up other players to win one on ones while Sammy gets the attention.

I think QBs do this all the time.

Edited November 26, 2014 by 3rdand12

[OldNMBillsFan]

James Lofton and Andre Reed were fun to watch. The defense could not double both, they had to pick their poison. We have a rookie, and a 2nd year receiver that are better than any #1 receiver we have had in a long time. The future is bright. Quit bellyaching on who got the yards, Sammy will get his share. Go Bills!!!!

Edited November 26, 2014 by OldNMBillsFan

[enlightener]

Calm your Va JJ

 

The reason why were in a 6-5 right now and not in playoff position is because we continue to not feed Watkins enough. Hes our best player, he needs the ball more than hes gotten the last 3 games. We have a lot invested in him and we need to utilize that investment. 2 of the last 3 games we've lost and hes had only 30 yards receiving each time. When he gets the ball we win. Thats all im saying.

you could have just posted "hi, i dont understand football, I like one guy, and i want him to make every play no matter what."

 

Why cant woods be the focal point? he can actually catch. Why should a double covered guy get the ball "no matter what" especially when he drops passes and goes down like a little girl before he gets tackled?

 

Sammy's a softy. What a pu$$y for playing through broken ribs and a groin pull. Freakin' wuss.

dont play then...if you cant play hard, dont play at all. or are you part of the little-girl-excuse-making-club?

[JC2002]

Orton pre-determines where hes going with the football a lot. Hackett needs to make sure Watkins is the primary read on enough plays to get him 10+ targets a game. Its really that simple

 

Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, Jordy Nelson, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Demarius Thomas, ODB, Kelv Benj, Watkins.....all these guys need to be fed the football

 

Watkins getting 5 shots a game to make an impact play is just a terrible offensive strategy.

This reads like some Im mad because my fantasy team is screwed BS .

 

We threw the ball 32 times and you are saying we should've made sure to throw to sammy a 3rd of the time REGARDLESS of what the defense is doing ?

 

Thats stupid

 

You know it ...I know it and everyone reading this thread knows that that is simply stupid from any type of real football strategy.

 

We are trying to develop an entire offense NOT JUST ONE PLAYER.

 

Sammie's presence opened things up for Woods who made plays and as such that will help free Sammie up from being doubled down the line ....again its about building an ENTIRE offense not just one play for one receiver like the 2009 Lions and megatron .

 

This attitude amongst some that sammy is the only player that counts and so we should not develop any of our other young players is ridiculous.

 

We play the brown this weekend and Joe haden and they just lost there starting safety . They will put Haden on sammie and we will need a confident Woods to make plays to beat the browns . We will need sammie too but Woods performance will make the browns feel they will have to put haden on Sammie with no help giving Sammie some 1 on 1 matchups which we can go after .

 

This offense is 8 weeks old and some of the things people are expect from it is ridiculous