YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Again, the Eagles had the best run blocking oline in the NFL last year. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/ The Bills were ranked 29th in run blocking. This year, we're 27th in run blocking. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol It is so easy to blame the rbs but it's the oline and the unimagnitive playcalling. I like to go by what smart teams are doing. Well, the Eagles traded Brown for a 4th and were trying to get Spiller. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24526531/report-eagles-tried-to-trade-for-cj-spiller Why do you think that is? the eagles apparently valued him pretty highly to get a 4th rd pick (that could become a third but won't) for a devalued position who didn't even start. The saints only got a 5th for Sproles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Again, the Eagles had the best run blocking oline in the NFL last year. https://www.profootb...ine-rankings/4/ The Bills were ranked 29th in run blocking. This year, we're 27th in run blocking. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol It is so easy to blame the rbs but it's the oline and the unimagnitive playcalling. I like to go by what smart teams are doing. Well, the Eagles traded Brown for a 4th and were trying to get Spiller. http://www.cbssports...-for-cj-spiller Why do you think that is? Seeing as they are one of "smart teams" maybe they should work on their OL, now ranked 32nd. They better get more creative with their playcalls so LeSean McCoy can be a little higher then 15th in YPC as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The front office and coaching staff aren't in the same book in terms of personnel. Whaley gave up a 2015 4th which can become a 3rd (that is if Brown plays) for a player who doesn't play. And then there's the Mike Williams trade. Not to mention that Kouandjio is deemed not even good enough to dress as a 2nd round pick. And then there's the disagreement between the front office and coaching staff regarding the trainers from February. It seems like the relationship between the personnel and coaching departments is pretty toxic and disorganized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It was a dumb trade. You can find a Brown in every draft, probably with a lower draft pick. He didn't play in Philly either or really in college. He is the 2nd biggest myth going next to Kirk Cousins is an awesome QB who needs to play. And even if he plays, do we think this offense will get the most out of him? Except that he produced when he did actually play You make fair points Yolo, but here's a draft history of rbs. http://www.drafthist...hp/positions/rb Zac Stacy in the 5th, Andre Ellington in the 6th, Alfred Morris in the 6th, James Stark in the 6th, Oliver undrafted. Is Brown's talent level really that much better than those guys that we needed to invest a 4th round pick when we have 3 other rbs? I don't think it is. I generally like our FA moves and trades. I just feel like this was a waste we didn't need to do. Its only a waste because we are not using him....the sad fact of the matter is he fits Hackett's offense better then CJ does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 The front office and coaching staff aren't in the same book in terms of personnel. Whaley gave up a 2015 4th which can become a 3rd (that is if Brown plays) for a player who doesn't play. And then there's the Mike Williams trade. Not to mention that Kouandjio is deemed not even good enough to dress as a 2nd round pick. And then there's the disagreement between the front office and coaching staff regarding the trainers from February. It seems like the relationship between the personnel and coaching departments is pretty toxic and disorganized. actually I think Marrone isn't playing brown because Whaley never wanted him to play this year unless there was an injury. How is that not on the same page? Except that he produced when he did actually play Its only a waste because we are not using him....the sad fact of the matter is he fits Hackett's offense better then CJ does. yes, that is why they traded for him. They are not the ones who drafted CJ. Brown fits this offense very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I agree with Bryce Brown. Maybe he can ignite this inept running game? I see no reason for him to be inactive to dress some of the stiffs that are dressing each week (see Dean, Larry & Smith, Lee). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) actually I think Marrone isn't playing brown because Whaley never wanted him to play this year unless there was an injury. How is that not on the same page? Who trades a 4th round pick for a player you don't plan on playing an entire season? If stands to reason if they liked Brown enough to deal for him, he'd dress. Well, at least there's precedent in Buffalo. Nix traded a 7th for Tarvaris Jackson, and Gailey refused to play him the entire (EDIT: 2012). Edited October 17, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 actually I think Marrone isn't playing brown because Whaley never wanted him to play this year unless there was an injury. How is that not on the same page? but if they are all on the same page, it wouldve been nice to make sure the player was atleast reading from the same book. additionally, im not sure why you think whaley is making this decision and marrone is just following orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Who trades a 4th round pick for a player you don't plan on playing an entire season? If stands to reason if they liked Brown enough to deal for him, he'd dress. Well, at least there's precedent in Buffalo. Nix traded a 7th for Tarvaris Jackson, and Gailey refused to play him the entire (EDIT: 2012). i assume that as it was next year's 4th, it's because he doesn't see an RB he thinks he can get in the 4th or later next year as talented as he thinks Brown is, or that fits this system as well as he does. With as little tread on his tires, at age 23. Whether or not we all agree is different, depending on one's knowledge of the 2015 eligible RBs. Edited October 17, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 i assume that as it was next year's 4th, it's because he doesn't see an RB he think he can in the 4th it later next year as good as he thinks Brown is, or that fits this system as well as he does. With as little tread on his tires, at age 23. the downside being that sure he would be insurance for this year but next year is the final year of his contract... which further diminishes the value compared to a guy we might be able to hold 4 years if we drafted him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 i assume that as it was next year's 4th, it's because he doesn't see an RB he think he can in the 4th it later next year as good as he thinks Brown is, or that fits this system as well as he does. With as little tread on his tires, at age 23. Actually, the Bills have dealt both of their 4th round picks in 2014 (the other is a conditional acquired from SF for Stevie). And how the heck does the Bills college scouting department know that far in May 2014 that the 2015 RB class would not have a better player available? But the issue is whether there is poor coordination between the front office and coaching staff. I'd say there's an issue when you trade for a guy (the front office) and then he doesn't dress (coaching decision). I don't understand how people quibble about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Seeing as they are one of "smart teams" maybe they should work on their OL, now ranked 32nd. They better get more creative with their playcalls so LeSean McCoy can be a little higher then 15th in YPC as well. They are getting murdered with injuries on their oline. And they are still 5-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davspo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Our running game is so strong why would we even try him? (insert sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 the eagles apparently valued him pretty highly to get a 4th rd pick (that could become a third but won't) for a devalued position who didn't even start. The saints only got a 5th for Sproles. Basically, the Eagles made 2 great trades. I'd rather have Sproles for a 5th than Brown for a 4th. I'd rather have Stevie than a 4th round pick. Good teams make good trades. OVerall, I like most of our moves. I'm just not a fan of this one because I really don't think Brown is as special as some of you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The value of the trade will be apparent when Spiller and/or Jackson are out due to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Except that he produced when he did actually play Its only a waste because we are not using him....the sad fact of the matter is he fits Hackett's offense better then CJ does. The fact we are trying to make players fit Hackett's offense is a major fail then. Good coaches adjust to talent. If Hackett had a track record like Chip Kelly or Sean Payton, it's one thing. But he's been a coordinator for an average Cuse team and a video guy in the NFL. I have no reason to believe in his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Basically, the Eagles made 2 great trades. I'd rather have Sproles for a 5th than Brown for a 4th. I'd rather have Stevie than a 4th round pick. Good teams make good trades. OVerall, I like most of our moves. I'm just not a fan of this one because I really don't think Brown is as special as some of you do. Stevie has right around the same number of receiving yards this year as Woods, Jackson, Watkins, and Chandler. With a better QB and a "winning culture." So no thanks for Stevie. Edited October 17, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The value of the trade will be apparent when Spiller and/or Jackson are out due to injury. which usually would have happened 3 weeks ago. Except CJ is so bad this year he doesn't get any carries and Fred just refused to go down to Injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Stevie has right around the same number of yards this as Woods, Jackson, Watkins, and Chandler. With a better QB and a "winning culture." So no thanks for Stevie. I'm not saying Stevie would be our best receiver. But I'd rather have him be a mentor to the young wrs than Mike Williams. He also would be tied for the team led in tds. IMO, this team would be better off with Stevie. But even if they traded him, they better off with a 4th round pick they traded for Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Stevie has right around the same number of receiving yards this year as Woods, Jackson, Watkins, and Chandler. With a better QB and a "winning culture." So no thanks for Stevie. Considering he's behind Boldin, Davis, & Crabtree on Kaep's progression list, that's not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Considering he's behind Boldin, Davis, & Crabtree on Kaep's progression list, that's not too shabby. True, but it's not like he's outproducing all our guys. He'd be a borderline #2-#3 here who doesn't play ST. That's hard to go to after being the undisputed #1 for awhile. It was over for him in Buffalo. In fact, we probably helped his career by getting him out of here. I'm not saying Stevie would be our best receiver. But I'd rather have him be a mentor to the young wrs than Mike Williams. He also would be tied for the team led in tds. IMO, this team would be better off with Stevie. But even if they traded him, they better off with a 4th round pick they traded for Brown. Fair on Stevie I suppose. Do you know who was our 4th round pick in 2013. Our boy Duke Williams. Bryce Brown ain't worth more than him? Edited October 17, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Did it take him 7 weeks to realize that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 True, but it's not like he's outproducing all our guys. He'd be a borderline #2-#3 here who doesn't play ST. That's hard to go to after being the undisputed #1 for awhile. It was over for him in Buffalo. In fact, we probably helped his career by getting him out of here. I don't totally disagree with this. But when a good team wants one of our players, it gives me pause. Apparently he isn't good enough for Buffalo, but he is good enough for one of the best teams in the NFL. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Did it take him 7 weeks to realize that? It took 7 weeks for someone from the press to ask him the question, which he answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I don't totally disagree with this. But when a good team wants one of our players, it gives me pause. Apparently he isn't good enough for Buffalo, but he is good enough for one of the best teams in the NFL. Weird. Keep in mind that SF isn't trying to build a young team. They don't value draft picks nearly as much as a rebuild like Buffalo does. They wanted a new weapon for Kaep who they know could play decently, not a guy who may be able to play in 3 years. They're on the edge of a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Actually, the Bills have dealt both of their 4th round picks in 2014 (the other is a conditional acquired from SF for Stevie). And how the heck does the Bills college scouting department know that far in May 2014 that the 2015 RB class would not have a better player available? But the issue is whether there is poor coordination between the front office and coaching staff. I'd say there's an issue when you trade for a guy (the front office) and then he doesn't dress (coaching decision). I don't understand how people quibble about this. that far in advance? Scouting. It doesn't start the year a player becomes eligible. Edited October 17, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Much controversy about the use of Brown so far seems to me to miss the point in terms of what Brown does to help the Bills. My sense of this based on a few decades of paying too much attention to the NFL (at least according to my wife) is that Brown's role for our running gam was pretty clear. 1. His production during his brief NFL career showed good POTENTIAL for him to be a solid if not very good NFL RB. He is clearly a good back-up RB now and even shown the POTENTIAL to be starter with good eyesight and breakaway speed. 2. Nevertheless, he is not at the level of either Fred Jackson or a scary threat any time he touches the ballot go all the way like Spiller. Also, while he clearly has good ST return POTENTAL his highest and bet use is not seen to be as a ST cover guy, wedge buster or any of the suicide jobs a solid ST guy is assigned to do. This being noted the Bills clearly have productive RBs to operate the 1-2 punch popular in the NFL these days and the Bills ran last year with great productivity.However, as tough and productive a runner as Jax is and as scary a dynamic as Spiller can be, it is reasonable to figure one these two is gonna get dinged and miss some games this season. Jax is the oldest RB In the league and Spiller has had history of high ankle sprains that generally have not ended his season but clearly have hobbled him. Further CJ is gonna be an FA likely in demand if only for his potential. The FO made a god move in extending ax's contract so they did not have to negotiate with CJ/Jax at the same time Further, by signing Brown they now have the leverage to let CJ walk if need be. The even better news for us s that it has turned out that Booby Dixon who was signed for his likely contributions on ST also showed a lot of grit that made him a reasonable #3 RB. The intelligent ills football move would seem to be A. Run CJ and Jax without fear. B. Use Booby in his area of demonstrated success on ST. C. Use Booby as your #3 RB when needed and praise his grit and toughness. D. Save Brown until you need him and if you and if you are luckyyou do not need him at all to play in 14, but he really gives you a lot of contract leverage in the off-season. Brown strikes me as saying just the right thing. I want a layer who at least is surprised not to play, but I not want someone who pulls what Mike Williams did of when I sit him he sends out word of demanding a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Considering he's behind Boldin, Davis, & Crabtree on Kaep's progression list, that's not too shabby. yea but thats on the 49ers..... on our roster, he wouldnt even be guaranteed to dress - competing with the likes of chris hogan and lee smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 To add insult to injury, he's behind a guy named Boobie on the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 To add insult to injury, he's behind a guy named Boobie on the depth chart. lol Much controversy about the use of Brown so far seems to me to miss the point in terms of what Brown does to help the Bills. My sense of this based on a few decades of paying too much attention to the NFL (at least according to my wife) is that Brown's role for our running gam was pretty clear. 1. His production during his brief NFL career showed good POTENTIAL for him to be a solid if not very good NFL RB. He is clearly a good back-up RB now and even shown the POTENTIAL to be starter with good eyesight and breakaway speed. 2. Nevertheless, he is not at the level of either Fred Jackson or a scary threat any time he touches the ballot go all the way like Spiller. Also, while he clearly has good ST return POTENTAL his highest and bet use is not seen to be as a ST cover guy, wedge buster or any of the suicide jobs a solid ST guy is assigned to do. This being noted the Bills clearly have productive RBs to operate the 1-2 punch popular in the NFL these days and the Bills ran last year with great productivity.However, as tough and productive a runner as Jax is and as scary a dynamic as Spiller can be, it is reasonable to figure one these two is gonna get dinged and miss some games this season. Jax is the oldest RB In the league and Spiller has had history of high ankle sprains that generally have not ended his season but clearly have hobbled him. Further CJ is gonna be an FA likely in demand if only for his potential. The FO made a god move in extending ax's contract so they did not have to negotiate with CJ/Jax at the same time Further, by signing Brown they now have the leverage to let CJ walk if need be. The even better news for us s that it has turned out that Booby Dixon who was signed for his likely contributions on ST also showed a lot of grit that made him a reasonable #3 RB. The intelligent ills football move would seem to be A. Run CJ and Jax without fear. B. Use Booby in his area of demonstrated success on ST. C. Use Booby as your #3 RB when needed and praise his grit and toughness. D. Save Brown until you need him and if you and if you are luckyyou do not need him at all to play in 14, but he really gives you a lot of contract leverage in the off-season. Brown strikes me as saying just the right thing. I want a layer who at least is surprised not to play, but I not want someone who pulls what Mike Williams did of when I sit him he sends out word of demanding a trade. i think this is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well he did have one good game last year. Other than that he was terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'd rather have Sproles for a 5th than Brown for a 4th. Or the Bills could have gotten Chris Ivory for a 4th, like the supposedly incompetent Idzik did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Or the Bills could have gotten Chris Ivory for a 4th, like the supposedly incompetent Idzik did. he doesnt play special teams either, so theres apparently that problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 he doesnt play special teams either, so theres apparently that problem Yeah, Bryce Brown has been tearing it up on special teams this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just pointing out that this story started from Mike Rodhack, if no one noticed. It is incredibly strange how this guy is getting all of this **** stirred. Sammy Watkins/EJ Manuel and now this? Me thinks this kid is trying too hard to be a big boy reporter and stirring another pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 @ProFootballTalk: Bryce Brown surprised Bills have kept him on the bench http://t.co/5rp4RZlST9 It's hard to PLAY in the nfl. To add insult to injury, he's behind a guy named Boobie on the depth chart. You cant go wrong with a Boobie or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yeah, Bryce Brown has been tearing it up on special teams this year. my point, very clearly being, that i dont think it matters whether its brown or ivory sitting on the bench here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Me too. Maybe he was with Urbik when they ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I get that. But couldn't Brown do what Dixon is doing? I dont think he is ever gonna attempt to leap over numerous players a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) It was a dumb trade. You can find a Brown in every draft, probably with a lower draft pick. He didn't play in Philly either or really in college. He is the 2nd biggest myth going next to Kirk Cousins is an awesome QB who needs to play. And even if he plays, do we think this offense will get the most out of him? Bryce Brown has a tremendous amount of talent. he was drafted late, with no real investment by the eagles and shined. He's still VERY young, and will be the bell cow next year while spiller is tearing up defenses on a team that has a clue. Bryce Brown isn't dressing because Dixon is a special teams guy. If Spiller or Fred gut hurt, Bryce dresses and immediately gets a ton of touches. Edited October 18, 2014 by Endless Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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