Does the front office have a clue?

[Kelly the Dog]

All we can do is look at history. 14 years of history. Evidently they do not know what they are doing. This team can't even catch lightning in a bottle. Even other teams on the low end of the spectrum make the playoffs once or twice in a 14 year period ... not the Bills. Those who are evaluating talent can't seem to find a franchise or even serviceable QB and because we somehow win 6-8 games each year, we never bottom out and get the 1 or 2 pick to get that 'that guy'. The only conclusion is that YES, the FO is F'd up.

Except this front office has one or two years of history. The OP, I believe, is talking about Brandon without Ralph, Whaley without Nix, and Marrone.

[Coach Tuesday]

The FO may have a clue, but I'm not so sure about the coaching staff.

 

Specifically, I can't think of a single player on offense who has improved under Marrone. The only one who remotely fits into that category is Cordy Glenn, but he showed flashes of what he is now under Gailey. Lots of guys appear to have stagnated (EJ, Chandler), and many have outright regressed (Spiller, Urbik, Wood). For a coach whose specialty is offensive line and tight ends, he has little to show for his efforts to date. Methinks that if the FO really does have a clue, Marrone is on a short leash.

[BillsVet]

10 Front Office sane moves:

 

Why stop there?

 

Whaley and company should get credit for signing Kolb to be their starter in 2013 and deciding he should start over a 1st round pick And, when Kolb inexplicably was injured they recovered and brought in Thad Lewis, he of 1 NFL start in 3 NFL seasons to backup Manuel.

 

This is a completely different front office, despite having many of the same senior management, personnel directors, and scouts, They're changing the culture. If only they'd been in place since 2010.

[bowery4]

This topic should have a simple poll.

 

Yes

I lean towards yes

Maybe

I lean towards no

No

 

I lean towards yes. Seem to have plans that make sense but until the on paper version and the real version light it up together, I am not totally sold, yet.

[PlayoffsPlease]

It is easy to see how all of the top organizations bring in a new QB coach, and then cut 4 QBs right before the season begins (Palmer, Dixon, Tuel and Lewis), and then spend $5 million per on a guy who has hardly thrown a pass for three seasons, who is deemed to somehow be the savior of the franchise as a back up QB.

 

Russ Brandon is a miracle worker to keep so much of the fanbase in a constant state of delusion. Kudos to Russ.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

I personally like DW's handling of the Kiko situation. http://www.wgr550.com/Bills-plce-Alonso-on-Reserve-NFI-list/9034669?pid=423610

 

I also like that he is constantly trying to upgrade the roster.

[Kelly the Dog]

It is easy to see how all of the top organizations bring in a new QB coach, and then cut 4 QBs right before the season begins (Palmer, Dixon, Tuel and Lewis), and then spend $5 million per on a guy who has hardly thrown a pass for three seasons, who is deemed to somehow be the savior of the franchise as a back up QB.

 

Russ Brandon is a miracle worker to keep so much of the fanbase in a constant state of delusion. Kudos to Russ.

The geniuses in Seattle signed Charlie Whitehurst to a good FA contract, signed Tarvaris Jackson twice like we did twice, signed Matt Flynn to a 25 m FA contract to be their starter, and then used a 3rd round pick on Russell Wilson they hoped would be a decent backup they could develop.

 

They lucked out. I have been abusing them for their backup QB decisions for a year and a half but they finally got it right. Before their second season.

[Ramius]

I have a difficult time understanding how people who are not professional sports GMs or coaches believe that they know when someone has no clue what they're doing.

 

I'm guilty of it - mostly questioning Marrone's ability to lead an NFL team. I shouldn't do it. Not only because he's only in his second year, but mostly because I have no friggin' clue what makes him come to the decisions he ends up making.

 

From where I sit, I think Whaley has had a solid reputation pre-dating his tenure in Buffalo. He's also done some great things whilst the GM of our beloved Bills. He's made some ballsy moves. He's addressed the defense by making bold moves with coaching and players.

 

People like to say, "well he hasn't gotten our franchise QB." How do you know? EJ has played in 9.5 games. Total. Ever. Would you like a stranger - who has no real idea what you do for a living - decide your future based on the first 6 months of your job? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

I see a lot of "I would have ..." "He should have ..." statements regarding Whaley. Based on what? On what happened AFTER the decisions were made? Yeah ... hindsight.

 

Has he erred. In many of our eyes, absolutely. That's part of being human. It's not like he's Matt Millen and we've been waiting 8 years for him to stop drafting WRs in the first round.

 

Whaley's drafts, although too early to tell, seem to have been very good. His FA pickups have been nothing short of stellar. The Schwartz pick up to replace Pettine was seemingly excellent.

 

The questionable moves? Marrone and EJ. I think it's incredibly premature to say those moves were bad ones.

 

So ... to answer the OPs question: Does the front office have a clue? --> I like to think so, but I don't know, for sure. Nor does anyone posting on TBD.

 

Good post. Too many on here cry out how they knew this player that we didnt draft would be great and knew this play we did draft would suck. But i find it funny that there types, like large segment of posters who want wanted Stephen Hill a few years ago, are extremely quiet when Hill gets cut. Too many fling poo and then don't own it when they're wrong. In their mind they're never wrong but the Bills FO always is.

 

The FO may have a clue, but I'm not so sure about the coaching staff.

 

Specifically, I can't think of a single player on offense who has improved under Marrone. The only one who remotely fits into that category is Cordy Glenn, but he showed flashes of what he is now under Gailey. Lots of guys appear to have stagnated (EJ, Chandler), and many have outright regressed (Spiller, Urbik, Wood). For a coach whose specialty is offensive line and tight ends, he has little to show for his efforts to date. Methinks that if the FO really does have a clue, Marrone is on a short leash.

 

Another great post. Marrone has done a piss poor job of developing talent, and many have regressed, like you stated. How does Urbik go from a decent starter to someone who is barely hanging on? He's never been great, but he was decent until Marrone got here.

[CardinalScotts]

i think most guys like the Buffalo Bills roster with the exception of EJ, and not that they give it a thumbs down just a i don't know yet. The rest of the roster is solid and Orton in my opinion is a great get - no I don't want him starting over EJ. Now play for keeps and win - no more playing the card of "not enough talent" or "we don't have that guy". I love yes love the coaching staff I think they know weakness in particuliar along the o-line, Urbik is a dime a dozen guy as an example. Aaron Williams, Nigel Bradham, Derius, Hughes, McKelvin and Searcy all coming on as good, legit NFL players to go with solid proven NFL guys like Kyle and Mario Williams, Bradon Spikes and others. Offensively they have built a physical smash mouth running attack with extremely dangerous speed at running back and wide reciever and not one or two guys. I great combination set up for success with descent quarterback play, if we get exceptional quarterback play look out on the other hand poor qb play and were stuck. But I think the coachig staff is bright, and very smart NFL minds - now win, who understand the difference between a young team in the preseason and a veteran team.

Edited August 31, 2014 by CardinalScotts

[Proteus]

The geniuses in Seattle signed Charlie Whitehurst to a good FA contract, signed Tarvaris Jackson twice like we did twice, signed Matt Flynn to a 25 m FA contract to be their starter, and then used a 3rd round pick on Russell Wilson they hoped would be a decent backup they could develop.

 

They lucked out. I have been abusing them for their backup QB decisions for a year and a half but they finally got it right. Before their second season.

 

Give me a freaking break! Seattle went all out for a QB. They signed every guy they could who showed promise and still used a high pick on a QB. If Wilson had not panned out they would have probably taken a QB high the next season. It is what you are supposed to do when you don't have a QB. Keep drafting and signing guys until you find one.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Give me a freaking break! Seattle went all out for a QB. They signed every guy they could who showed promise and still used a high pick on a QB. If Wilson had not panned out they would have probably taken a QB high the next season. It is what you are supposed to do when you don't have a QB. Keep drafting and signing guys until you find one.

You dont draft QB's with a high pick EVERY year. thats just stupid

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Give me a freaking break! Seattle went all out for a QB. They signed every guy they could who showed promise and still used a high pick on a QB. If Wilson had not panned out they would have probably taken a QB high the next season. It is what you are supposed to do when you don't have a QB. Keep drafting and signing guys until you find one.

That I totally agree with, except a third isn't a high pick for a QB. Very few make it. But you are absolutely right that it's the way to go until you do find one, from anywhere.

 

The Bills were targeting the wrong guys and not pulling the trigger often enough. My point was the Seahawks didn't have any great ability to spot talent or make the right choices either. They lucked out with Wilson.

 

But the Bills could have and obviously should have taken him in the third. He was the guy I wanted in that spot.

[Captain Hindsight]

It is easy to see how all of the top organizations bring in a new QB coach, and then cut 4 QBs right before the season begins (Palmer, Dixon, Tuel and Lewis), and then spend $5 million per on a guy who has hardly thrown a pass for three seasons, who is deemed to somehow be the savior of the franchise as a back up QB.

 

Russ Brandon is a miracle worker to keep so much of the fanbase in a constant state of delusion. Kudos to Russ.

 

The packers before last season signed Vince Young, Seneca Wallace, and Scott Tolzien within a 3 week period. The signed Matt Flynn during the season.

 

They really suck

[Kelly the Dog]

 

You dont draft QB's with a high pick EVERY year. thats just stupid

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant you keep acquiring QBs in all different ways until you find one, even if you have to use a third rounder after you signed free agents.

[Captain Hindsight]

Give me a freaking break! Seattle went all out for a QB. They signed every guy they could who showed promise and still used a high pick on a QB. If Wilson had not panned out they would have probably taken a QB high the next season. It is what you are supposed to do when you don't have a QB. Keep drafting and signing guys until you find one.

So a late third round pick is a "high pick" Thats news to me

[CountryCletus]

The move for Orton was a good one, the issue is why did they wait until a week before the season ? Why not make that move 2 weeks ago when they knew their backup QB's were having an issue, or why not make it instead of adding Jordan Palmer and give Orton some snaps in the last preseason game ?

 

Again, I like the move, but don't understand why they waited so long to make it.

 

As for this FO, they've done some good things and some bad things, in the end they'll be judged on the team's record this year. That's the only truly objective measuring stick.

 

I wonder if the Bills were talking with Orton all along and he just played it slow as to not have to endure a preseason....

[Proteus]

So a late third round pick is a "high pick" Thats news to me

 

It was the 12 pick in the 3rd round so let's stop trying to skew it to make the BIlls look better. Seattle went hard to find a QB. Something that Buddy never did despite saying it was the most important position to him. He drafted one QB high in a bad QB draft after letting 2 great QB drafts pass right by him. That is not taking care of the most important position in the game. We had freaking Fitz and Thigpen as 1 and 2 and he felt no need to sign anyone else or draft anyone until he had a foot out the door and he had to.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

I wonder if the Bills were talking with Orton all along and he just played it slow as to not have to endure a preseason....

 

If they did then Orton won because he got a fat contract

[CountryCletus]

 

 

If they did then Orton won because he got a fat contract

 

I haven't seen the contract yet, but by you saying he got a fat contract- It gives me a little hope that this team will pull the trigger on using him if EJ doesn't step up...

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

I haven't seen the contract yet, but by you saying he got a fat contract- It gives me a little hope that this team will pull the trigger on using him if EJ doesn't step up...

He got $5m. I think he simply waited out the preseason to see if there were any injuries like Sam Bradford so he could walk in and have a chance to start. When the preseason was over he weighed his options and the Bills were the best combination of money, opportunity and talent.

[3rdand12]

The FO may have a clue, but I'm not so sure about the coaching staff.

 

Specifically, I can't think of a single player on offense who has improved under Marrone. The only one who remotely fits into that category is Cordy Glenn, but he showed flashes of what he is now under Gailey. Lots of guys appear to have stagnated (EJ, Chandler), and many have outright regressed (Spiller, Urbik, Wood). For a coach whose specialty is offensive line and tight ends, he has little to show for his efforts to date. Methinks that if the FO really does have a clue, Marrone is on a short leash.

I will concede this to you. I have no rebuttal at this time . Edited August 31, 2014 by 3rdand12

[eball]

 

Except this front office has one or two years of history. The OP, I believe, is talking about Brandon without Ralph, Whaley without Nix, and Marrone.

 

Thank you. Unfortunately, I often overestimate my audience. They are good intentioned (I think) but much is lost.

[Mr. WEO]

That I totally agree with, except a third isn't a high pick for a QB. Very few make it. But you are absolutely right that it's the way to go until you do find one, from anywhere.

 

The Bills were targeting the wrong guys and not pulling the trigger often enough. My point was the Seahawks didn't have any great ability to spot talent or make the right choices either. They lucked out with Wilson.

 

But the Bills could have and obviously should have taken him in the third. He was the guy I wanted in that spot.

 

You might want to check some of the other talent on the Seahawks roster......

[Kelly the Dog]

You might want to check some of the other talent on the Seahawks roster......

I was talking quarterbacks which was the topic.

[birdog1960]

I think the criteria for being eligible to be the Bills HC has been set too low. If there has even been any.

 

If you don't hire retreads who have not been successful you don't later have to explain why you hired an unsuccessful retread to the job.

 

Organizations need systems in place to succeed. The Bills have long acted like they were just being run by some mercurial old man.

this.

 

are they clueless? no.

 

are they among the best fo's? no way.

 

in the bottom half? yes.

 

among the worst? possibly.

[Gugny]

this.

 

are they clueless? no.

 

are they among the best fo's? no way.

 

in the bottom half? yes.

 

among the worst? possibly.

But you're basing this on what, exactly?

 

What makes a good front office? I'll tell you what I think ... smart decisions and a couple lucky breaks. The Bills just haven't had lucky breaks. You can't fault Whaley and co. for not picking up HOF players from Kutztown, or backups from Michigan. Sometimes you strike gold; usually you don't. The Bills have sucked for the last 5 years, primarily, due to defense. Whaley has addressed it and addressed it well. He took a shot on Manuel and the fanbase should give him more than half a season to determine whether or not it was a good move.

 

But he took a shot. He has my respect for that.

[T master]

I was about to let pessimism get the better of me Thursday night, but the events of the past two days have restored my faith (somewhat) that this FO does in fact have a clue.

 

We now have a legitimate short term answer at QB if EJ starts slow or gets hurt. Under-talented backups like Lewis and Tuel are finally gone and the message has been sent to EJ that the coddling is over.

 

Similarly, releasing under performers like Graham and Legursky is a sign that the organization is done accepting mediocrity. Graham is a guy who just tantalized with his ability to get open in this league, but when you play WR and can't catch you're a liability.

 

This roster has the pieces in place at every position. Of course, it's all about whether the QB shows up, but at least I feel like Whaley and Marrone have an idea of what they're doing.

 

I believe it's more Whaley than Marrone , just have & always will think it was a homer hire unless & i hope he does prove me terribly wrong in my judgement of him ...

 

And to add i think the EJ pick was more Buddy & Marrone than Whaley . Just saying ...

Edited August 31, 2014 by T master

[birdog1960]

But you're basing this on what, exactly?

 

What makes a good front office? I'll tell you what I think ... smart decisions and a couple lucky breaks. The Bills just haven't had lucky breaks. You can't fault Whaley and co. for not picking up HOF players from Kutztown, or backups from Michigan. Sometimes you strike gold; usually you don't. The Bills have sucked for the last 5 years, primarily, due to defense. Whaley has addressed it and addressed it well. He took a shot on Manuel and the fanbase should give him more than half a season to determine whether or not it was a good move.

 

But he took a shot. He has my respect for that.

i'm basing it on 2 years experience. plenty of teams go from bad to good or vice versa in that time. the laws of probability demand that luck even out over time, at least to a degree. granted, two years isn't long for luck to run it's course but i don't see where their luck has been all that bad. they've taken big chances (ej and watkins the biggest) and it doesn't look to me that dividends are coming soon. if you bet long shots, you more often lose than win. denver, sf and seattle don't have analogous stars to those you mentioned. seems to me that much of their luck is by design. i sincerely hope i'm wrong about the bills and you can ridicule me over it. Edited August 31, 2014 by birdog1960

[Gugny]

i'm basing it on 2 years experience. plenty of teams go from bad to good or vice versa in that time. the laws of probability demand that luck even out over time, at least to a degree. granted, two years isn't long for luck to run it's course but i don't see where their luck has been all that bad. they've taken big chances (ej and watkins the biggest) and it doesn't look to me that dividends are coming soon. if you bet long shots, you more often lose than win. denver, sf and seattle don't have analogous stars to those you mentioned. seems to me that much of their luck is by design. i sincerely hope i'm wrong about the bills and you can ridicule me over it.

It's not my style to ridicule, as long as one isn't a dick about it - which you're not being.

 

You say EJ and Watkins do not look like they'll be paying dividends soon. Based on EJ's 9.5 games and Sammy's zero games? That's harsh, man. As far as betting long shots, EJ was kind of a long shot, but Watkins was nothing of the sort. He was likely the best WR in the draft.

 

If you're wrong, we'll both be happy because the Bills will win. And that's good enough for me.

[Mr. WEO]

I was talking quarterbacks which was the topic.

 

Still not right. The Seahawks made several simultaneous moves to identify a starting QB. Mainly, they signed (overspent on) Flynn figuring he was their guy---yet they still spent a 3rd on Wilson, just in case They quickly figured out he should be their starter. Wilson didn't come in for an injured #1, nor did he come in for a poorly playing #1 midseason.

 

That's pretty astute judge of talent. At QB....

[eball]

 

 

Still not right. The Seahawks made several simultaneous moves to identify a starting QB. Mainly, they signed (overspent on) Flynn figuring he was their guy---yet they still spent a 3rd on Wilson, just in case They quickly figured out he should be their starter. Wilson didn't come in for an injured #1, nor did he come in for a poorly playing #1 midseason.

 

That's pretty astute judge of talent. At QB....

 

Which part was astute -- Whitehurst or Flynn? The Wilson draft pick was obviously smart (and lucky).

[Rockinon]

I will concede this to you. I have no rebuttal at this time .

Chandler? Glenn? Edited August 31, 2014 by Rockinon

[Mr. WEO]

Which part was astute -- Whitehurst or Flynn? The Wilson draft pick was obviously smart (and lucky).

 

Flynn was the top guy available. They had a desperate need for a QB. He was a hot comodity at the time. Whitehurst was never considered to be the starter, so I don;t know what your point is there.

 

They signed Flynn. Many figured it was a logical move. Yet they still picked Wilson (who was hardly an unkown comodity at the time). Contrast that with the Bills, who were also depserate for improved QB play. They did....nothing.

[Coach Tuesday]

Chandler? Glenn?

 

Chandler has regressed. Glenn is the only possibility but as I stated, he showed well under Gailey.

[bananathumb]

have we been in the p-layoffs since Polian? yes, we're clueless

[Kelly the Dog]

Still not right. The Seahawks made several simultaneous moves to identify a starting QB. Mainly, they signed (overspent on) Flynn figuring he was their guy---yet they still spent a 3rd on Wilson, just in case They quickly figured out he should be their starter. Wilson didn't come in for an injured #1, nor did he come in for a poorly playing #1 midseason.

 

That's pretty astute judge of talent. At QB....

He absolutely did come in for an injured #1, that is how he got the job. Flynn hurt his shoulder or elbow, and Wilson played game #3 in preseason, and that's when they realized his height wasn't going to affect him. In fact, it was an amazing call by Carroll to just start him in the regular season opener. I bet 90% of the coaches would have gone back to their 25m FA starter.

[Gugny]

He absolutely did come in for an injured #1, that is how he got the job. Flynn hurt his shoulder or elbow, and Wilson played game #3 in preseason, and that's when they realized his height wasn't going to affect him. In fact, it was an amazing call by Carroll to just start him in the regular season opener. I bet 90% of the coaches would have gone back to their 25m FA starter.

After nearly 27,000 posts, surely you realize that facts, statistics, examples and logic have no place here whilst proving one's point.

[BADOLBILZ]

After nearly 27,000 posts, surely you realize that facts, statistics, examples and logic have no place here whilst proving one's point.

 

If only the facts, statistics, examples and logic that actually proved points around here were for the positive.

 

Today the apologist crowd takes solace every time other team makes ONE of the mistakes that the Bills make on a regular basis.

 

Like EBall with the "so the way to be a good organization is to draft Ryan Mallet in round 3 and trade him for a 6th rounder?".

 

Yeah forget about great QB play and great coaching and operating systematically......it's all about trying to find company in their misery and push that off as optimism.

 

Looking foward to a new organizational directive in 2015.

[GG]

Are we talking about the entire front office or are we separating the coaching staff from the rest of the front office.

 

There's clearly a change at OBD, but doesn't look like it was a quantum leap that many of us hoped for.

 

Whaley deserves credit for moving to improve the QB position, but he's also the guy who felt comfortable with EJ, Tuel, Lewis and Dixon as the camp bodies. He was also part of the staff that felt that Fitz was way overpaid at $4 million/yr, but now has to pay Orton $5 milion.

 

So long story short, Whaley doesn't seem to be afraid to move quickly to fix his errors, but a bit of better forward thinking could save him from overpaying for obvious mistakes. Hopefully he's a faster learner that the QB he's staking his reputation on.

[mannc]

 

He absolutely did come in for an injured #1, that is how he got the job. Flynn hurt his shoulder or elbow, and Wilson played game #3 in preseason, and that's when they realized his height wasn't going to affect him. In fact, it was an amazing call by Carroll to just start him in the regular season opener. I bet 90% of the coaches would have gone back to their 25m FA starter.

You are probably right, but it does not negate the adeptness of Seattle's FO.