Gugny Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I have a difficult time understanding how people who are not professional sports GMs or coaches believe that they know when someone has no clue what they're doing. I'm guilty of it - mostly questioning Marrone's ability to lead an NFL team. I shouldn't do it. Not only because he's only in his second year, but mostly because I have no friggin' clue what makes him come to the decisions he ends up making. From where I sit, I think Whaley has had a solid reputation pre-dating his tenure in Buffalo. He's also done some great things whilst the GM of our beloved Bills. He's made some ballsy moves. He's addressed the defense by making bold moves with coaching and players. People like to say, "well he hasn't gotten our franchise QB." How do you know? EJ has played in 9.5 games. Total. Ever. Would you like a stranger - who has no real idea what you do for a living - decide your future based on the first 6 months of your job? I sure as hell wouldn't. I see a lot of "I would have ..." "He should have ..." statements regarding Whaley. Based on what? On what happened AFTER the decisions were made? Yeah ... hindsight. Has he erred. In many of our eyes, absolutely. That's part of being human. It's not like he's Matt Millen and we've been waiting 8 years for him to stop drafting WRs in the first round. Whaley's drafts, although too early to tell, seem to have been very good. His FA pickups have been nothing short of stellar. The Schwartz pick up to replace Pettine was seemingly excellent. The questionable moves? Marrone and EJ. I think it's incredibly premature to say those moves were bad ones. So ... to answer the OPs question: Does the front office have a clue? --> I like to think so, but I don't know, for sure. Nor does anyone posting on TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 You cannot argue this FO hasn't made significant strides. It has and we have more talent than we've had in a decade. The coaching this preseason has shaken my faith however, and that is a FO issue if this season goes south. The latest cuts and the Orton signing are positives, for me at least. It can't be easy to operate with new ownership hanging like a sword over their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 You cannot argue this FO hasn't made significant strides. It has and we have more talent than we've had in a decade. The coaching this preseason has shaken my faith however, and that is a FO issue if this season goes south. The latest cuts and the Orton signing are positives, for me at least. It can't be easy to operate with new ownership hanging like a sword over their heads. Have you seen the spectacle called "Our Offensive Line"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I should have also added that no UDFAs made the roster. Usually at this time of the year we are all agog over some diamond in the rough every other team missed. The fact none of these guys cracked the roster also speaks to overall talent. To your comment, Chandler, I say "better late than never." It was easily the worst quality crop of UDFA's relative to the rest of the league that they have signed in a very, very long time. The stud of the bunch coming in was Ladler, who was non-existent in camp/preseason. It is reflective of their improved talent....but also of the fact that if these Whaley/Marrone Bills do not have huge opportunities to offer....all other things being equal....they will not be a preferred destination for top UDFA's. Agents aren't going to steer a prospect to a team that has depth and also may have a disastrous season and coach/fo turnover as well. Regime changes can wash players out of the league before they get full chance to show their ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloriles Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 So Manuel is a QB whiff now? Before game 1? OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) 10 Front Office sane moves: Additions of QB Kyle Orton and P Colton Schmidt. Orton played his cards right so he wasn't available until Bills showed the need. Moorman was a Pro Bowler, but declined rapidly. Development of a larger OL. We have winter in early October with winds. You're going to run more here. You needed a snowplow line. Release of G Doug Legursky. Too small for the above. Bringing in TDonahue to coach EJ. Relying less on Hackett to bring along QBs. Bringing in 2 vet QBs that can mentor EJ (Palmer, who is still a good mentor and likely a future QB Coach, now Orton). Parting ways with WR T.J. Graham. Drafting him was not this front office's idea. Saying goodbye to DT Alan Branch. Putting Kiko on NFI rather than IR. Re-signing Garrison Sanborn. He is a once in a decade long snapper. Re-signing FJax, even if just for Locker Room Effect. Snatching up Moeaki and putting him on Reserve/Injured List Giving Landon Cohen yet another chance. Having the cohones to move up to get Sammy Watkins. Trading away Sheppard for Jerry Hughes. Shep has been waived and Hughes had 10 sacks. Front office bonehead moves: Putting faith solely in EJ/Seeing backup potential in Tuel and Lewis. Not seeing need to back up Hackett with a QB Coach. Edited September 1, 2014 by Astrobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Have you seen the spectacle called "Our Offensive Line"? I have in preseason. Let's see a few games in the regular season. I'm upbeat about our tackles and center and hopeful the guards pan out. The FO went heavy in the draft on the OL and it looks like two hits and one whiff. These are big boys and if they gel, could be dominant. But yeah, not looking great this preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreezeMafia Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It all starts at the top. When you have a non football guy running the show like we do with Brandon, this is what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 The move for Orton was a good one, the issue is why did they wait until a week before the season ? Why not make that move 2 weeks ago when they knew their backup QB's were having an issue, or why not make it instead of adding Jordan Palmer and give Orton some snaps in the last preseason game ? Again, I like the move, but don't understand why they waited so long to make it. As for this FO, they've done some good things and some bad things, in the end they'll be judged on the team's record this year. That's the only truly objective measuring stick. We really do not know what transpired regarding Palmer and Orton. For all we know they could have been working on getting a replacement for quite some time but couldn't sign anyone. I remain convinced Palmer was mainly for info on the Bears, but also as a safety net in case they could not sign anyone better. Orton may well have been hesitant to sign wanting to see if there was interest elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) I was about to let pessimism get the better of me Thursday night, but the events of the past two days have restored my faith (somewhat) that this FO does in fact have a clue. We now have a legitimate short term answer at QB if EJ starts slow or gets hurt. Under-talented backups like Lewis and Tuel are finally gone and the message has been sent to EJ that the coddling is over. Similarly, releasing under performers like Graham and Legursky is a sign that the organization is done accepting mediocrity. Graham is a guy who just tantalized with his ability to get open in this league, but when you play WR and can't catch you're a liability. This roster has the pieces in place at every position. Of course, it's all about whether the QB shows up, but at least I feel like Whaley and Marrone have an idea of what they're doing. IMO, I believe the FO does have a clue. It is clear, to me, that they have greatly improved the talent and depth on this team. In regard to some of their decisions that appear to some as signs of incompetence (as with the players you mentioned), it is never that simple. Whether or not players continue on a trajectory to reaching their potential, actually do reach their potential, or continue playing at that level once they do is dependent on so many different variables. To say it is an inexact science predicting how any given player will perform is, to say the least, an understatement. Going into traning camp and the preseason, most people who follow the Bills closely believed that, based on last year's performances, Lewis was developing as a very competent backup QB and Tuel could continue to be brought along as a developmental QB. There is no reason to feel the FO office was incompetent in believing the same thing and that both players would continue to improve. Similarly, Legursky played well in 2012 and really regressed in 2013. I also don't believe it is a matter of incompetence for them to believe he may bounce back from that regression and play to the level he played prior to last season. With Graham, what harm was there in giving him the preseason to show he was worthy of staying on this team? The Bills have a strong receiving corps and it is not as if he was taking up a spot of a potential starter out there. The fact is, none of those things happened and they got rid of all four players. Perhaps they waited too long; however, it is not as if there were many options by the time everyone realized those players were not getting better. Edited August 31, 2014 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 ..And I have a feeling that those calls will be forthcoming. If the offense stinks in a week against the Bears, those calls could start here as early as halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 You cannot argue this FO hasn't made significant strides. It has and we have more talent than we've had in a decade. The coaching this preseason has shaken my faith however, and that is a FO issue if this season goes south. The latest cuts and the Orton signing are positives, for me at least. It can't be easy to operate with new ownership hanging like a sword over their heads. My faith is still in tact. Marone may be intentionally putting the offense in difficult situations. Calling plays that are difficult to execute in an effort to make the offense better. We do not know what goes on behind the scenes. As for the direction of the team, I have seen significant improvements in many phases of the game and while it is painfully obvious that there are areas that need to be worked on, I do not think it is time to stop believing. It's just preseason. The whole process of dropping down to 53, picking up a QB....a punter etc, is very complex. The decisions a coach has to make are complex. We know that, but still try to figure out what a coach or GM is trying to do. I tend to think that we armchair coaches and GMs are often not even close to knowing what is going on. So don't stop believing. Just enjoy the ride. What the Bills are trying to do is not easy, but from where I am sitting, it looks like a good deal of effort is being put in from top to bottom. The whole season is still in front of us and it sure as hell ain't over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It does make me feel better if the FO was indeed trying to sign Orton for several weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It does make me feel better if the FO was indeed trying to sign Orton for several weeks. That's the word out there. And since you're in Texas you likely know about the "contemplating retirement" job he pulled to get out of Dallas. Put yourself in his shoes. You play that card and get your release. Now you're a free agent, and a few teams come calling. You know you're probably one of the best available at your position. Why on God's green Earth would you even consider making a decision to sign with a team until after camps broke if the teams are basically begging you to sign? Training camps are for guys fighting for roster spots. Orton played it smart by going the "Thanks but no thanks" route until right now. Do I wish he signed earlier so he knew the playbook going into Week 1? Absolutely. But he's an 8 or 9 year NFL vet so I can understand why he would want to skip training camp as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) The front office had to rebuild the team from ground up after over a decade of abysmal management. More bills went to Hawaii last year than in ages. This team has some talent. They are the best front office I've seen easily since at least Donahoe, but possibly since Butler. They have a clue. They've built one helluva defense from the ground up. Just need some of the offensive talent to develop and gel. If it doesn't happen expect action. This makes sense. Compromise the season and their own jobs by not adding a vet QB in preseason for fear that 26 posters on this board would be calling for them to start Orton over EJ in August. What else could it be? You can spin it bad any way you want. Having a crapload of QBs on roster is not a plan. It's an indication you have no plan. Right or wrong they committed to EJ, and to Tuel and Lewis. They thought it would work. Obviously the backup situation did not. But to keep rolling in castoff QBs like quarters into a slot machine is a worse idea. Edited August 31, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) I have a difficult time understanding how people who are not professional sports GMs or coaches believe that they know when someone has no clue what they're doing. I'm guilty of it - mostly questioning Marrone's ability to lead an NFL team. I shouldn't do it. Not only because he's only in his second year, but mostly because I have no friggin' clue what makes him come to the decisions he ends up making. I see a lot of "I would have ..." "He should have ..." statements regarding Whaley. Based on what? On what happened AFTER the decisions were made? Yeah ... hindsight. Don't sell yourself (or TBD) short. If recent history has shown us anything, it is that the Bills front office is no smarter than the average "man on the street". This is a front office that always seems to outsmart itself; every time they make a move that bucks popular opinion, it blows up in their face. As to your point about hindsight, well, how else can you judge a GM? They are paid to project in advance whether particular players will excel or suck. No one gets them all right, but the ones who get more right (especially at QB) than others do are the ones who succeed. Edited August 31, 2014 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I have a difficult time understanding how people who are not professional sports GMs or coaches believe that they know when someone has no clue what they're doing. Buddy Nix was a professional sports GM. Chan Gailey was a professional sports HC. So was Jauron, Gregg. I mean come on! You could not see that these guys were not good at what they were doing? Only another professional could possibly see this? BS. 10 Front Office sane moves: Development of a larger OL. We have winter in early October with winds. You're going to run more here. You needed a snowplow line. Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 The jury is out, and it is hard to evaluate Whaley because we do not know what his role has been in the years prior to becoming the GM. Was he responsible for the EJ pick? What about the replacements at guard for Levitre? Clearly, he is responsible for the signing of Williams, so we will need to see how that works out. I also think that Whaley has brought in some of his own guys to run the scouting department. We will need to see if there is an improvement in our drafting as a result. Not happy that CK is a project after being drafted as a high second round pick in a deep draft. We needed him to be effective and compete immediately. The team may have more talent now, but I do not think we can credit Whaley for much of if. Mario Williams was signed by Nix. Dareus, Glenn and Gilmore were drafted by Nix. Kyle Williams and Woods were drafted before his arrival. Whaley will be judged on how the Watkins trade turns out, whether Marrone can be an effective NFL coach and whether EJ develops into a starting caliber NFL quarterback. If the Bills have a poor year, it probably means that all three of the foregoing did not turn out favorably. In that case, Whaley's continued tenure as GM with a new owner will be in jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I have a difficult time understanding how people who are not professional sports GMs or coaches believe that they know when someone has no clue what they're doing. I'm guilty of it - mostly questioning Marrone's ability to lead an NFL team. I shouldn't do it. Not only because he's only in his second year, but mostly because I have no friggin' clue what makes him come to the decisions he ends up making. From where I sit, I think Whaley has had a solid reputation pre-dating his tenure in Buffalo. He's also done some great things whilst the GM of our beloved Bills. He's made some ballsy moves. He's addressed the defense by making bold moves with coaching and players. People like to say, "well he hasn't gotten our franchise QB." How do you know? EJ has played in 9.5 games. Total. Ever. Would you like a stranger - who has no real idea what you do for a living - decide your future based on the first 6 months of your job? I sure as hell wouldn't. I see a lot of "I would have ..." "He should have ..." statements regarding Whaley. Based on what? On what happened AFTER the decisions were made? Yeah ... hindsight. Has he erred. In many of our eyes, absolutely. That's part of being human. It's not like he's Matt Millen and we've been waiting 8 years for him to stop drafting WRs in the first round. Whaley's drafts, although too early to tell, seem to have been very good. His FA pickups have been nothing short of stellar. The Schwartz pick up to replace Pettine was seemingly excellent. The questionable moves? Marrone and EJ. I think it's incredibly premature to say those moves were bad ones. So ... to answer the OPs question: Does the front office have a clue? --> I like to think so, but I don't know, for sure. Nor does anyone posting on TBD. I think the criteria for being eligible to be the Bills HC has been set too low. If there has even been any. If you don't hire retreads who have not been successful you don't later have to explain why you hired an unsuccessful retread to the job. Organizations need systems in place to succeed. The Bills have long acted like they were just being run by some mercurial old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) All we can do is look at history. 14 years of history. Evidently they do not know what they are doing. This team can't even catch lightning in a bottle. Even other teams on the low end of the spectrum make the playoffs once or twice in a 14 year period ... not the Bills. Those who are evaluating talent can't seem to find a franchise or even serviceable QB and because we somehow win 6-8 games each year, we never bottom out and get the 1 or 2 pick to get that 'that guy'. The only conclusion is that YES, the FO is F'd up. Edited August 31, 2014 by DallasBillsFan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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