Don't rule out Niagara Falls, N.Y. as Bills future home

[mousetrap08]

...Elmira, Corning, HORSEHEADS, Bath, Hornell....

[sodbuster]

 

 

That would be the DUMBEST move ever. The big reason December games don't sell is because no one wants to sit out in the cold. And when was the last time bad weather helped us? I seem to recall the Dolphins beating us pretty easily in the cold. The whole wind-and-cold advantage is BS. The only dumber move would be to waste money on a retractable roof then open it in December.

You don't think the crappy weather had anything to do with shutting out the Fins this past season?

[section122]

The traffic problems getting in and out of Niagara Falls would be insane, I don't think they have the infrastructure to handle that many vehicles. That county is a notoriously unfriendly and unfair place to try a case in if you are being sued by an alleged injured worker.

 

A stadium on the Rochester side of Buffalo positioned relatively close to the thruway would make it much easier for fans from Syracuse and Rochester to come to games and it would separate the game traffic with all the folks from Buffalo coming and going on the west side and the people from Rochester, Syracuse, Geneva, Canandaigua, etc. etc. coming and going on the east side.

 

Our family all had seasons for a long, long time but the trip from Syracuse to Orchard Park and back through all that traffic was just too long of a day for kids, older folks and the handi-abled, especially in bad weather.

I am hoping and praying for the stadium in Batavia idea. It would really open up the market to Rochester, make it more feasible for people from syracuse (which is an untapped market from an nfl perspective), and be closer for me because I leave near syracuse!

 

I would get my seasons back in a heartbeat! Same as you it just got to be too long of a day. On the road at 7am home at 8pm with work the next day. Avoiding the cluster of exits 51-55, sending Canadian fans one way and Rochester fans the other (I believe both are around the same number according to Brandon) would ease traffic for a lot of people.

 

Again though the real reason I'm rooting for this is pure selfishness

[GaryPinC]

It's easy to see the Bills new owner supporting a NF stadium location, and it would not surprise me at all if a pre-vetted front runner is already quietly steering the committee to a NF stadium site recommendation. The site choice is incredibly important to the financial success of the new owner's investment, and there's no way that this committee won't be steered by the owner's wishes.

 

A NF stadium site is the most effective way to put a stake in the heart of Toronto's NFL ambitions. To ensure their long term survival, the Bills MUST do everything possible to obliterate Toronto as a threat to their market over the long haul. A NF stadium is the best possible way to do that, short of moving over the border. WNY needs a new owner more than he needs WNY, so the Committee will make whatever recommendations that the new owner wants them to make.

 

If the NFL signs off on a local owner-NF stadium site package, it signals to me that the NFL recognizes they can't have 2 viable franchises existing 90 miles apart, and have chosen WNY over Toronto once and for all. That would be a monumental statement. Game, set and match.

 

The idea of a shared Bills-Bulls training site in Amherst helps unlock lots of NYS funding. While leveraging NYS' help, this reported stadium-training site arrangement also skirts the NCAA's "no alcohol sales on campus" rules that rule out an on-campus stadium.

 

I think you have great points on this and in all honesty it makes the most economic sense for the new owners to have a stadium in Niagara Falls also. Plus, I would think casting aside the Argos to plunk an NFL franchise down would really alienate football fans in Canada let alone the Buffalo fans. Factor in the lukewarm response to the Bills playing up there and you have to wonder if an NFL franchise would be successful up there. Always makes me laugh how the NFL stares at the size of the market and lets that mandate a franchise. That's never worked for LA and I have to think it won't until you address how to get people to support the franchise.

 

Completely on board with PTR's points about foot or shuttle traffic across the rainbow on game day. Any tailgating Canadians can cross at Lewiston but the rest can park in NF, Canada and more quickly come across. Alleviating as much border-crossing pain as possible is critical. If done correctly, having a stadium in close proximity to the border would be of huge benefit. Regarding the local politics, I think the casinos, hotels and restaurants/entertainment would really support this and pressure local leaders to do so and I would think even the most despicable politicians would play nice for an opportunity of this magnitude.

 

I just see all the businesses on both sides recognizing the opportunity to offer packages and sell game days into all inclusive weekend deals during a traditionally slower time of the year. Having the stadium functional as a conference center and other events would seem critical also.

 

When I consider that NYS may step in to help or manage the financial situation, the franchise needs to keep and grow as much of its fanbase as possible, and the new owner needs to have the team in the best US regional economic situation, Niagara Falls seems like a no-brainer.

[PromoTheRobot]

You don't think the crappy weather had anything to do with shutting out the Fins this past season?

Dec 22, 2013: 41 and cloudy. Bills win 19-0

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013122200/2013/REG16/dolphins@bills#tab=recap&menu=highlights

 

Nov 15, 2012: 35 and clear (thu nite game) Bills win 19-14.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111500/2012/REG11/dolphins@bills#tab=recap&menu=highlights

 

Dec 18, 2011: 30 and snow! Bills lose 30-23.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121801/2011/REG15/dolphins@bills#tab=recap&menu=highlights

 

So in the worst weather game against the Dolphins at RWS they beat us? How can that be?

[May Day 10]

I would prefer renovating RWS and installing grass if possible.

 

2nd choice would be open air at an adjacent site

 

3rd choice retractable at adjacent site

 

4th choice open air downtown

 

 

basically whatever keeps the team in WNY Im cool with though

[Bufcomments]

That would be the DUMBEST move ever. The big reason December games don't sell is because no one wants to sit out in the cold. And when was the last time bad weather helped us? I seem to recall the Dolphins beating us pretty easily in the cold. The whole wind-and-cold advantage is BS. The only dumber move would be to waste money on a retractable roof then open it in December.

 

the reason why they don't sell out in Dec. ? The Bills are out of the playoff hunt usually before Thanksgiving. The Holidays dont help either.

 

You think the Falcons wanted to play outdoors in the Ralph last year? Trust me it would have been a different game and crowd at the Ralph.

 

Plus why spent money on a roof when you know it might double the cost of the stadium??

 

Ask the people of Pittsburg, would they want a roof over Heinz field ??

[Kirby Jackson]

I really believe that NF is the most likely scenario. It is almost a compromise with the Southern Ontario market. It can't be too much more than an hour from Toronto and allows for no bridge traffic. The infrastructure is in place on the Canadian side already and this would be a catalyst on the US side. The money and people located between Buffalo and Toronto are what will make this team viable long term. Why not make it easier on them while maintaining your WNY roots and core fan base?

[PromoTheRobot]

the reason why they don't sell out in Dec. ? The Bills are out of the playoff hunt usually before Thanksgiving. The Holidays dont help either.

You think the Falcons wanted to play outdoors in the Ralph last year? Trust me it would have been a different game and crowd at the Ralph.

Plus why spent money on a roof when you know it might double the cost of the stadium??

Ask the people of Pittsburg, would they want a roof over Heinz field ??

 

The NFL season always runs into the holidays. Not an excuse. As for the Falcons I don't think they cared one bit. The weather hasn't helped the Bills win a game in over 10 years. Also Buffalo is snowier and windier than Pittsburgh. Building an open air stadium based on some myth is dumb. The people who want cold weather games usually stay home and watch them on TV anyway.

Edited April 11, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[boyst]

My vote is simple. I don't pay NY state taxes so I don't care if an extra $300mm on a retractable roof retractable roof. I'd just as soon keep the Bills keep the Bills in WNY then move them to them to Canada.

 

Putting a stadium in NF makes the most sense for business but there would have to be major investments in the entire infrastructure to support it.

[May Day 10]

I really believe that NF is the most likely scenario. It is almost a compromise with the Southern Ontario market. It can't be too much more than an hour from Toronto and allows for no bridge traffic. The infrastructure is in place on the Canadian side already and this would be a catalyst on the US side. The money and people located between Buffalo and Toronto are what will make this team viable long term. Why not make it easier on them while maintaining your WNY roots and core fan base?

 

you are forgetting the likely hundreds of millions or billions in environmental cleanup costs and an awful, corrupt, and incompetent group of politicians and unions up in niagara county. Not to mention a fraction of the tax paying population as Erie County. Also the Grand Island bridges would be horrendous.

 

I would be absolutely floored/shocked if this was built in Niagara Falls. It is a complete gong show (and its closer to me than O.P., Amherst, or even downtown Buffalo

[PromoTheRobot]

you are forgetting the likely hundreds of millions or billions in environmental cleanup costs and an awful, corrupt, and incompetent group of politicians and unions up in niagara county. Not to mention a fraction of the tax paying population as Erie County. Also the Grand Island bridges would be horrendous.

 

I would be absolutely floored/shocked if this was built in Niagara Falls. It is a complete gong show (and its closer to me than O.P., Amherst, or even downtown Buffalo

 

For crying out loud, there are other ways into NF besides the GI Bridges.

 

 

These are all the major roads into NF.

 

PTR

Edited April 11, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[yungmack]

If visiting teams think Buffalo is a dump, wait until they get a look at Niagara Falls. It makes Detroit look well-maintained and prosperous.

[May Day 10]

For crying out loud, there are other ways into NF besides the GI Bridges.

 

 

 

These are all the major roads into NF.

 

PTR

 

that is still a complete disaster. Pine Avenue?

 

Not to mention, I cant even get to work in NF without nearly wrecking my car on one of dozens of horrific potholes and spots where the asphalt on the road was stripped down and never replaced.

 

And traffic is one of a hundred reasons why NF would be extremely unlikely to impossible. The idea actually makes me chuckle.

[26CornerBlitz]

@AndrewBucholtz

Bills' Niagara Falls rumblings might serve as a compromise between Buffalo and Toronto: http://ow.ly/vHmP4

 

. H/T @john_wawrow.

[Kirby Jackson]

that is still a complete disaster. Pine Avenue?

 

Not to mention, I cant even get to work in NF without nearly wrecking my car on one of dozens of horrific potholes and spots where the asphalt on the road was stripped down and never replaced.

 

And traffic is one of a hundred reasons why NF would be extremely unlikely to impossible. The idea actually makes me chuckle.

NF may not be the nicest place in the world (no offense to any of you that may live there) but its proximity to the Southern Ontario market is what makes it such a viable option. Every site presents issues. In addition, the stadium could be a catalyst to that area. An area that I am sure the state as well as a potential new owner would love to see resurrected.

[PromoTheRobot]

@AndrewBucholtz

Bills' Niagara Falls rumblings might serve as a compromise between Buffalo and Toronto: http://ow.ly/vHmP4

 

. H/T @john_wawrow.

 

He writes there is "some debate" if people from Buffalo would drive the 20 minutes to NF to see a Bills game. I drive 500 miles but that extra 15 minutes is a deal breaker for me!

 

PTR

[sodbuster]

 

 

He writes there is "some debate" if people from Buffalo would drive the 20 minutes to NF to see a Bills game. I drive 500 miles but that extra 15 minutes is a deal breaker for me!

 

PTR

If that is true, Buffalo doesn't deserve a team.

 

In order of preference:

Orchard Park

Amherst

Downtown/OH

Clarence/Pembroke

NF

Batavia

Anywhere else

[PromoTheRobot]

If that is true, Buffalo doesn't deserve a team.

 

In order of preference:

Orchard Park

Amherst

Downtown/OH

Clarence/Pembroke

NF

Batavia

Anywhere else

 

For me it's:

 

Downtown by FNC

Falls

By UB

Orchard Park

Pembroke/Batavia

[Mike in Horseheads]

He writes there is "some debate" if people from Buffalo would drive the 20 minutes to NF to see a Bills game. I drive 500 miles but that extra 15 minutes is a deal breaker for me!

 

PTR

500 miles you wouldn't be Ron L from the Albany area that used to hang with the old Prodigy gang would you?

[PromoTheRobot]

500 miles you wouldn't be Ron L from the Albany area that used to hang with the old Prodigy gang would you?

 

Nope, sorry. I come from So. NH.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Nope, sorry. I come from So. NH.

Thanks... trust me you would have fit in

[BillnutinHouston]

 

 

He writes there is "some debate" if people from Buffalo would drive the 20 minutes to NF to see a Bills game. I drive 500 miles but that extra 15 minutes is a deal breaker for me!

 

PTR

Yea I had to smile at that one too.

[FLFan]

@AndrewBucholtz

Bills' Niagara Falls rumblings might serve as a compromise between Buffalo and Toronto: http://ow.ly/vHmP4

 

. H/T @john_wawrow.

There does not need to be a compromise with Toronto. The idea of moving the Bills to Toronto is nothing but a pipe dream.

[Kirby Jackson]

There does not need to be a compromise with Toronto. The idea of moving the Bills to Toronto is nothing but a pipe dream.

I don't think that it is as much about Toronto as a threat as the new owner wanting to capitalizing on the progress made in Southern Ontario.

[Mr. WEO]

NF may not be the nicest place in the world (no offense to any of you that may live there) but its proximity to the Southern Ontario market is what makes it such a viable option. Every site presents issues. In addition, the stadium could be a catalyst to that area. An area that I am sure the state as well as a potential new owner would love to see resurrected.

 

This is often cited by politicians as a rationale for squeezing more money out of taxpayers for stadiums. But it's just not true. There are very few examples where this has been true, and NF has none of the conditions for a significant positive impact.

 

Also, not sure why a new owner would care if NF is resurrected---and it is clear that the state has abandoned NF. A billion over 10 years to pump some life into Buffalo is as far as they are going to go. My guess is that if Cuomo could give NF to Canada, he would in a second.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

This is often cited by politicians as a rationale for squeezing more money out of taxpayers for stadiums. But it's just not true. There are very few examples where this has been true, and NF has none of the conditions for a significant positive impact.

 

Also, not sure why a new owner would care if NF is resurrected---and it is clear that the state has abandoned NF. A billion over 10 years to pump some life into Buffalo is as far as they are going to go. My guess is that if Cuomo could give NF to Canada, he would in a second.

I agree that usually stadiums do not usually grow areas but I believe that NF could be an exception (as I believe Brooklyn has been). If the area was rebuilt and brought in even a quarter of the tourist money that NF Canada generates the state would be thrilled. New York has 1 of the 7 wonders of the world and the surrounding area is functionally (& literally) a toxic wasteland. It has potential to be a destination and not just for 8 games a year.

[Mr. WEO]

I agree that usually stadiums do not usually grow areas but I believe that NF could be an exception (as I believe Brooklyn has been). If the area was rebuilt and brought in even a quarter of the tourist money that NF Canada generates the state would be thrilled. New York has 1 of the 7 wonders of the world and the surrounding area is functionally (& literally) a toxic wasteland. It has potential to be a destination and not just for 8 games a year.

 

Brooklyn has 2.6 million people (and growing 3.5 % over 3 years) and has seen a steady increase in residential housing inventory and rocketing rents and per square foot residential sale prices--the highest in the city over the past year. If it was a separate city, it would be the 4th largest in the country. It is a burgeoning scene for rich folks, artists, nasty hipsters, immigrants.... Many Brooklynites strongly opposed the Barclays Center project.

 

NF has lost 10% of its population between 2000 and 2010 and over 20% SINCE 1990. There are fewer than 50,000 souls left in that town. They city can't afford to demolish vacant buildings and the city is full of empty lots and structures. The Kentucky Fried Chicken couldn't stay open. It is run by amateur crooks and there is no tax base. The last large scale project, the Casino, did nothing to change the fate if NF. Having one of the Seven Wonders of the World was a big deal and a major draw for NF more than a generation ago. Not so much anymore.

 

NF and Brooklyn could not be more different--they are opposites in every imaginable way.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Brooklyn has 2.6 million people (and growing 3.5 % over 3 years) and has seen a steady increase in residential housing inventory and rocketing rents and per square foot residential sale prices--the highest in the city over the past year. If it was a separate city, it would be the 4th largest in the country. It is a burgeoning scene for rich folks, artists, nasty hipsters, immigrants.... Many Brooklynites strongly opposed the Barclays Center project.

 

NF has lost 10% of its population between 2000 and 2010 and over 20% SINCE 1990. There are fewer than 50,000 souls left in that town. They city can't afford to demolish vacant buildings and the city is full of empty lots and structures. The Kentucky Fried Chicken couldn't stay open. It is run by amateur crooks and there is no tax base. The last large scale project, the Casino, did nothing to change the fate if NF. Having one of the Seven Wonders of the World was a big deal and a major draw for NF more than a generation ago. Not so much anymore.

 

NF and Brooklyn could not be more different--they are opposites in every imaginable way.

Not comparing the two, just saying that the Barclays Center (much like the Prudential Center) have revitalized neighborhoods. I am not saying that putting a stadium there fixes everything. I am saying that the state would and should have an interest in the area. You don't think that Donald Trump (for example) would have an interest in developing that place?

 

I expect the state to be players in the new stadium more so than the county.. The bottom line is that being closer to Toronto will be important to a new ownership group.

[Mr. WEO]

Not comparing the two, just saying that the Barclays Center (much like the Prudential Center) have revitalized neighborhoods. I am not saying that putting a stadium there fixes everything. I am saying that the state would and should have an interest in the area. You don't think that Donald Trump (for example) would have an interest in developing that place?

 

I expect the state to be players in the new stadium more so than the county.. The bottom line is that being closer to Toronto will be important to a new ownership group.

 

We'll have to disagree on Barclays. It wiped out a large neighborhood and residents fought its existence. Trump would never develop a loser like NF. The State, if it gives any more money for the Bills stadium, will not waste it on NF. It wouldn;t make sense. There isn't the population density there to sustain any tiny benefit of a few NFL games played there per year. If the next owner is that interested in Toronto, he will move the team there.

[Prickly Pete]

WEO is right on virtually all counts. NF will not get the Bills (thank God).

Edited April 12, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[Donald Duck]

We'll have to disagree on Barclays. It wiped out a large neighborhood and residents fought its existence. Trump would never develop a loser like NF. The State, if it gives any more money for the Bills stadium, will not waste it on NF. It wouldn;t make sense. There isn't the population density there to sustain any tiny benefit of a few NFL games played there per year. If the next owner is that interested in Toronto, he will move the team there.

 

Niagara / Horse Shoe Falls are huge attractions, folks from all over the world come to see them,

 

why would a smart land developer not want to use this to his advantage?

 

25 minutes from Buffalo, very close to our Canadian neighbors, (yes, within walking distance)

 

If you take into consideration the sight seeing aspect of the location, the venue of different teams coming in to play, and the close proximity to Buffalo/Canada

 

Its a win, win, win situation...

Edited April 12, 2014 by dog14787

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Here's my vote. Roof! I don't need a retractable roof. That's a waste of money. It's the difference between a $500M and a $800M price tag. It"s a toy.

 

Spare me the cold weather advantage line. No one actually likes cold games and the advantage for the Bills is a myth. A dome means December sellouts.

 

Thank you! We've seen plenty of teams build them selves to have an advantage on turf under a roof... Home field conditions are only advantageous when you build a team in corresponding manner...

[dhg]

What an incredibly monumental mistake that would be to put a new stadium up there. Any new stadium should be in the city of Buffalo.

[Mr. WEO]

Niagara / Horse Shoe Falls are huge attractions, folks from all over the world come to see them,

 

why would a smart land developer not want to use this to his advantage?

 

25 minutes from Buffalo, very close to our Canadian neighbors, (yes, within walking distance)

 

If you take into consideration the sight seeing aspect of the location, the venue of different teams coming in to play, and the close proximity to Buffalo/Canada

 

Its a win, win, win situation...

 

If this was still true, NF wouldn't be the ghost town it now is. Site seeing does nothing for that city's fate---in fact the site see-ers do their seeing (and spending) from the Canadian side. How can anyone even argue this?

 

And if it was such an attractive development site, any smart developer would have invested something in it long ago. It's radioactive. This whole issue makes little sense. If your goal is to fill the stadium (with Americans, Canadians, martians...) create a nicer---and slightly smaller venue than the Ralph and it will sell out regularly. The current stadium is 91% full on average. Downsize it and..there you go 100% full.

 

All this "regionalization" has done nothing to bring in Canadian corporate support (big ad sales and, more importantly, luxury suite sales) so far. Building a stadium in a permanently blighted zone such as NF will not bring in the "whales" (they certainly won't "walk" there--a hilarious assumption).

 

Look, jw took a single throw away comment by Duffy and stretched it into an AP article. But, come on.....

[Kellyto83TD]

I have no issue with it. When you Say Buffalo NY most people automatically think Niagra Falls. Also the weather just hasn't been the advantage the last few years as it has say back in the 90's. A domed stadium would be appealing to more fans esp later in the year when its harder to sell out tickets.

 

There does not need to be a compromise with Toronto. The idea of moving the Bills to Toronto is nothing but a pipe dream.

Have you sat down and convinced Goddell of that yet?

[oman128]

With all the empty and torn down structures, there has to be a place in the downtown for a Stadium.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

If this was still true, NF wouldn't be the ghost town it now is. Site seeing does nothing for that city's fate---in fact the site see-ers do their seeing (and spending) from the Canadian side. How can anyone even argue this?

 

That's the whole point that I am trying to make. Do you think the state likes having 1/2 of Niagara Falls and 1/1,000,000,000th of the revenue spent there? People do come and spend in NF, Ontario. If there were any reason to spend any time in NF, NY people would. Right now, there is no reason to do so, but if a Patriot Place or LA Live type of complex was built there people would use it IMO.

[dhg]

I have no issue with it. When you Say Buffalo NY most people automatically think Niagra Falls. Also the weather just hasn't been the advantage the last few years as it has say back in the 90's. A domed stadium would be appealing to more fans esp later in the year when its harder to sell out tickets.

 

Have you sat down and convinced Goddell of that yet?

 

They do? Please enlighten me on this statement.

[jimmy10]

 

 

They do? Please enlighten me on this statement.

 

Yeah, I've spent 10 years of my life living in different parts of the country, and all most people think of when you say, "I'm from Blahblah, NY," is New York City.