My Twitter timeline filled w/ EJ/Jameis last night and this a.m.-

[YoloinOhio]

-Jameis Winston looks better than EJ ever did at QB for FSU, and its not even close.

-Fans have been more comfortable with him than EJ at QB since 1st game of year at Pitt.

Winston is a HUGE (yes, they capitalized) upgrade at QB over EJ. EJ had SAME exact weapons last year and lost to NC State and Florida.

-If EJ had another year to go, he would either split time with Winston or lose his job entirely.

-Whenever Winston comes out of college, he will unquestionably be the #1 pick. In fact, a local sportswriter in Ohio surmised whether the Browns should take him with their 1st round pick this year and then whenever he comes out he will be theirs (aka Larry Bird rule).

These are all from NFL and CFB sportwriters.

 

Maybe I am just a Bills homer ande EJ apologist. But I believe I am fairly objective and I watch a ton of CFB. my take is this:

1. EJ win 4 straight bowl games. Winston has won one big game so far in his 1/2 season.

2. Winston has yet to play either NC State or Florida this year, not to mention Miami (ranked 10) and the ACC Champ game

3. EJ put 49 up on this same Clemson team last year. Are 2 points a HUGE upgrade?

 

Just sayin, it was hyperbole city on Winston last night and it is still going strong. I agree the guy looks good, esp for a redshirt freshman. He has one good win so far - they haven't beaten anyone else halfway decent. But if he was so tremendously better than EJ that their play is "not even close", why did Winston redshirt last year?

Edited October 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[H2o]

It is how Jameis gets the job done and the fact that he is only a RS Freshman. He is only going to get better.He wasn't phased on the biggest of stages and in one of the loudest environments for the opposition in college football. The boy looks like the truth out there. He is Famous Jameis and may very well be the 2nd Freshman in a row to win the Heisman Trophy if this continues.

Edited October 20, 2013 by H2o

[YoloinOhio]

It is how Jameis gets the job done and the fact that he is only a RS Freshman. He is only going to get better.He wasn't phased on the biggest of stages and in one of the loudest environments for the opposition in college football. The boy looks like the truth out there. He is Famous Jameis and may very well be the 2nd Freshman in a row to win the Heisman Trophy if this continues.

Yes, agreed he looked very good last night. I saw Matt Barkley do the same thing in the same type of environment(OSU) in the same type of game (night game on the road, top 10 matchup) as a true freshman. Nothing against Jameis. I don't take anything away from his performance. Just think it is bit extreme (and soon) to act like the different between he and EJ is like going from Curtis Painter to Andrew Luck. Edited October 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[mead107]

Wow hope he does well for the rest of his college days and stays healthy

[YoloinOhio]

It is how Jameis gets the job done and the fact that he is only a RS Freshman. He is only going to get better.He wasn't phased on the biggest of stages and in one of the loudest environments for the opposition in college football. The boy looks like the truth out there. He is Famous Jameis and may very well be the 2nd Freshman in a row to win the Heisman Trophy if this continues.

This could happen. But my vote right now is for Marcus Marriota. Edited October 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Ozymandius]

Wow, I didn't even know those were the things FSU fans were saying about Winston vs EJ.

 

While I agree with you that Winston hasn't played enough games to conclude anything definitively, just the fact that FSU fans are saying those things at all does not look good for EJ.

[aristocrat]

I gotta say though that winston's wr's bailed him out a lot yesterday. they were going up over top the clemson db's and getting the ball

[YoloinOhio]

I gotta say though that winston's wr's bailed him out a lot yesterday. they were going up over top the clemson db's and getting the ball

Several pointed out that their big WR - Benjamin - is hugely improved from last year to this year and dropped a lot of balls last year, as well as couldn't get open, whereas he is making the tough catches this year. Also, the OL has played MUCH better this year. So maybe not the "exact" same weapons as they noted. Again, this kid is extremely talented and athletic. But on the one horrible INT he threw, he dramtically chewed out the WR on the sideline for running the wrong route. Not a good look.

 

I'll also add that Winston has talked a lot about how he studied behind EJ and learned from him last year. He acted like EJ was a God to him. So maybe it doesn't look so bad for EJ.

Edited October 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Wow, I didn't even know those were the things FSU fans were saying about Winston vs EJ.

 

While I agree with you that Winston hasn't played enough games to conclude anything definitively, just the fact that FSU fans are saying those things at all does not look good for EJ.

 

A bunch of excited FSU fans venting their excitement for their young QB "does not look good for EJ?" I fail to see the connection.

[BreezeMafia]

What impressed me the most about Winston was his QB mechanics. Right there is where Winston is superior than EJ and Winston is only 19. Some examples of QB mechanics - arm strength, release, accuracy (for the majority of throws, not all), foot work, command of the offense for the bulk of the game. Not bashing EJ here, but wow..........Winston looks awesome. Maybe Clemson should scrap the whole pregame bus ride around the stadium thing. I didn't get that at all. When Florida State went up 24-7, my wife who is some-what a football fan said "Maybe the orange team should ride a different bus next time" LOL.

[Kellyto83TD]

You guys are homers, not objective or you would see that Winston is clearly superior to EJ period. Had EJ been drafted by say the Jets you as a bills fan would be laughing and bashing them for wasting a first round pick on the guy. Bottom line the same inept front office lucked into the Legend of Kiko but screwed the pooch on the first round QB. So we will be sitting here 3 years from now with ANOTHER bust at QB, another Captain checkdown it seems.

[Ozymandius]

A bunch of excited FSU fans venting their excitement for their young QB "does not look good for EJ?" I fail to see the connection.

 

Then you are being deliberately obtuse. Look back at the original post in this thread. Do any NFL fans want those kinds of things being said about their supposed franchise QB? In an ideal world, you'd want those college fans to miss him terribly right? It seems like the opposite is happening.

[YoloinOhio]

Then you are being deliberately obtuse. Look back at the original post in this thread. Do any NFL fans want those kinds of things being said about their supposed franchise QB? In an ideal world, you'd want those college fans to miss him terribly right? It seems like the opposite is happening.

To be clear, the tweets were from national and local (to Ohio) sportswriters who I follow. There were some FSU fans who replied to the tweets and agreed. I don't follow any FSU fans, so maybe they did tweet the same, but I don't know. I did see one person, not sure if an FSU fan, reply something to the effect that to be that much better than EJ would be an incredible feat.

 

Just remember, the legendary Tee Martin won the NC for UT the year after Peyton left and didn't do so in any of his 4 years, nor did he beat their rival Florida. Some UT fans will still say Martin was a better UT QB than Peyton for that reason. OSU fans could not wait to see Terrell Pryor leave - his mechanics sucked. From the minute Braxton stepped on the field everyone said he was better. Now Pryor is starting in the NFL after getting some real QB coaching which he never had at OSU. I am just saying that college and NFL are just so entirely different. Can't really judge either Winston on college or EJ on NFL at this point of either's careers.

Edited October 20, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[White Linen]

Then you are being deliberately obtuse. Look back at the original post in this thread. Do any NFL fans want those kinds of things being said about their supposed franchise QB? In an ideal world, you'd want those college fans to miss him terribly right? It seems like the opposite is happening.

I think you're completely wrong about this. In college you only get a guy for 2-4 years so invariably you move on and get excited about the next guy. Especially at a program like FSU, it's next man up, and the fans act accordingly.

[H2o]

I watched this guy in his first game of the season and a couple since. He is fantastic. You know who I have heard him give credit to for his demeanor and on field presence more than once? That's right folks, EJ Manuel. Now the comments I made about Jameis were not a shot @ EJ or saying that Jameis is better. He is having a fantastic, award caliber year in college right now. People also need to take into account that the FSU defense is on a completely different level than it was last year also. Herbstriet said it last night, and I totally agree, They look as good as they did in the late 90's and early 00's right now with that defense.

[FluffHead]

It's the eye test. The reason Winston hasn't won the bowl games EJ did is only because he hasn't played in them yet. And Winston's first bowl game could very well be the BCS Championship, something EJ never sniffed. Winston is already better than EJ ever was as a college player. How they turn out in the NFL is obviously TBD. But Jameis is certainly the more talented of the two.

[YoloinOhio]

You guys are homers, not objective or you would see that Winston is clearly superior to EJ period. Had EJ been drafted by say the Jets you as a bills fan would be laughing and bashing them for wasting a first round pick on the guy. Bottom line the same inept front office lucked into the Legend of Kiko but screwed the pooch on the first round QB. So we will be sitting here 3 years from now with ANOTHER bust at QB, another Captain checkdown it seems.

After 6 college games?

 

It's the eye test. The reason Winston hasn't won the bowl games EJ did is only because he hasn't played in them yet. And Winston's first bowl game could very well be the BCS Championship, something EJ never sniffed. Winston is already better than EJ ever was as a college player. How they turn out in the NFL is obviously TBD. But Jameis is certainly the more talented of the two.

That really isn't the question. He needs to be more than just talented. He also appears to be somewhat immature from his pre-game locker room antics, pre-season interviews, and chewing out his WR on the sidelines. Maybe that will improve. I hope so, he could have a very bright future.

[FluffHead]

After 6 college games?

 

 

That really isn't the question. He needs to be more than just talented. He also appears to be somewhat immature from his pre-game locker room antics, pre-season interviews, and chewing out his WR on the sidelines. Maybe that will improve. I hope so, he could have a very bright future.

It doesn't take a whole season to evaluate someone's talent. I like EJ but Winston is the more talented player

[YoloinOhio]

It's the eye test. The reason Winston hasn't won the bowl games EJ did is only because he hasn't played in them yet. And Winston's first bowl game could very well be the BCS Championship, something EJ never sniffed. Winston is already better than EJ ever was as a college player. How they turn out in the NFL is obviously TBD. But Jameis is certainly the more talented of the two.

It takes more than a QB to get to the BCS Championship. BTW, the majority of the successful NFL QBs also never sniffed that game.

[KDIGGZ]

The chant for next season: We need to LOSE to WINston

[YoloinOhio]

The chant for next season: We need to LOSE to WINston

Well done

 

I think some of you are missing the point... I am really not questioning who is more talented, mainly because I have watched Jamies for 4 of his 6 games and agree is supremely talented. However, to compare him at this point and say is a HUGE upgrade becasue EJ's team lost to NC State and FL last year ... well, for one FSU hasn't played those teams yet this year. To me, it just seems early on Winston to declare him as the better FSU QB. Which I don't care ultimately, because I only care about what kind of QB EJ is for the Bills.

[CardinalScotts]

and how many guys on the field last night will play in the NFL ?

 

Also people seem to think a guy won't improve he will be the same as he was in college which is SO off the mark

Edited October 20, 2013 by CardinalScotts

[YoloinOhio]

You guys are homers, not objective or you would see that Winston is clearly superior to EJ period. Had EJ been drafted by say the Jets you as a bills fan would be laughing and bashing them for wasting a first round pick on the guy. Bottom line the same inept front office lucked into the Legend of Kiko but screwed the pooch on the first round QB. So we will be sitting here 3 years from now with ANOTHER bust at QB, another Captain checkdown it seems.

So if you were running the Bills, you would have stuck with Fitzy or Kolb and tried to draft EJ in the 3rd when he would have already been gone since other teams indicated they wanted him sooner, missed out on the guy they wanted, and gone with Barkley or one of the others? I am just curious.

 

and how many guys on the field last night will play in the NFL ?

 

Also people seem to think a guy won't improve he will be the same as he was in college which is SO off the mark

Pryor is a great example. I know someone who works in a NFL front office who said Pryor will never play QB in the NFL, he will only play if he is willing to change positions to TE or WR. That's the difference between the coaching and playbook he got at OSU and what he is getting now.

[SWATeam]

It's the eye test. The reason Winston hasn't won the bowl games EJ did is only because he hasn't played in them yet. And Winston's first bowl game could very well be the BCS Championship, something EJ never sniffed. Winston is already better than EJ ever was as a college player. How they turn out in the NFL is obviously TBD. But Jameis is certainly the more talented of the two.

I don't necessary see that right now. He is obviosly playing at an extremly high level right now, higher than EJ ever did in college in fact. However, I have a hard time comparing the two right now.

 

First the talent issue. I don't see Jameis as an explosive athelete, in fact it looks to me like EJ is probably faster. Also, someone mentioned his steller mechanics. I don't really see that either. He seems to have a long release and has a bit of a vince young "flick."

 

Second the overall team is much better than it has been in years. I can't really think of an FSU WR that has been drafted very high in the last few years, now it looks like they have two studs.

 

I think that it is WAY to early for all of these definative statements that are coming out, but that is the world today.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't necessary see that right now. He is obviosly playing at an extremly high level right now, higher than EJ ever did in college in fact. However, I have a hard time comparing the two right now.

 

First the talent issue. I don't see Jameis as an explosive athelete, in fact it looks to me like EJ is probably faster. Also, someone mentioned his steller mechanics. I don't really see that either. He seems to have a long release and has a bit of a vince young "flick."

 

Second the overall team is much better than it has been in years. I can't really think of an FSU WR that has been drafted very high in the last few years, now it looks like they have two studs.

 

I think that it is WAY to early for all of these definative statements that are coming out, but that is the world today.

My point exactly, but you captured it much better. Overreaction is the new normal.

[H2o]

To be clear, the tweets were from national and local (to Ohio) sportswriters who I follow. There were some FSU fans who replied to the tweets and agreed. I don't follow any FSU fans, so maybe they did tweet the same, but I don't know. I did see one person, not sure if an FSU fan, reply something to the effect that to be that much better than EJ would be an incredible feat.

 

Just remember, the legendary Tee Martin won the NC for UT the year after Peyton left and didn't do so in any of his 4 years, nor did he beat their rival Florida. Some UT fans will still say Martin was a better UT QB than Peyton for that reason. OSU fans could not wait to see Terrell Pryor leave - his mechanics sucked. From the minute Braxton stepped on the field everyone said he was better. Now Pryor is starting in the NFL after getting some real QB coaching which he never had at OSU. I am just saying that college and NFL are just so entirely different. Can't really judge either Winston on college or EJ on NFL at this point of either's careers.

 

There have been many outstanding COLLEGE QB's who have been busts @ the pro level. There are also some guys who were seemingly average in college that have turned out to be solid if not great NFL QB's.

[KOKBILLS]

Yes, agreed he looked very good last night. I saw Matt Barkley do the same thing in the same type of environment(OSU) in the same type of game (night game on the road, top 10 matchup) as a true freshman. Nothing against Jameis. I don't take anything away from his performance. Just think it is bit extreme (and soon) to act like the different between he and EJ is like going from Curtis Painter to Andrew Luck.

 

Well...I have no idea what the future holds for Jameis Winston...But I will say this much...I guarantee he is a completely different animal than Matt Barkley...That much I know...

[CountryCletus]

I remember seeing Barry Sanders playing second fiddle to Thurman Thomas... That worked out ok for us, even though Barry was clearly the better back... You don't have to have the best players, just really good ones. On top of all that, who's to say his game will transition to the nfl (I know you said it's the same skill set EJ has), and the kid has to have it between the ears... EJ has poise, and has the determination and drive to want to be better... Constantly studying...

 

I DON'T watch much CFB, and these are all devils advocate type scenarios.... But there are lots of things to look at...

[mannc]

Well done

 

I think some of you are missing the point... I am really not questioning who is more talented, mainly because I have watched Jamies for 4 of his 6 games and agree is supremely talented. However, to compare him at this point and say is a HUGE upgrade becasue EJ's team lost to NC State and FL last year ... well, for one FSU hasn't played those teams yet this year. To me, it just seems early on Winston to declare him as the better FSU QB. Which I don't care ultimately, because I only care about what kind of QB EJ is for the Bills.

I recall reading unattributed quotes from FSU assistant coaches to the effect that they have far more confidence in Winston than they ever did in EJ. To me, that is telling.

[dayman]

I'm a Gator fan, have countless FSU fans as friends, and watch SEC/ACC football closely. Jameis is in fact miles better than EJ. It is just a fact guys. Don't worry about it though, because Jameis is also probably the best QB to play in the state of Florida in a LOOONG time. Jameis is better, but that is because Jameis is great.

 

Also, sadly (I know this is not popular to say) EJ has always kind of sucked and still does. Just more facts. FSU fans would be the first to tell you this too, btw. Great guy, average QB (at best).

Edited October 20, 2013 by SameOldBills

[santoro770]

 

While I agree with you that Winston hasn't played enough games to conclude anything definitively, just the fact that FSU fans are saying those things at all does not look good for EJ.

 

You couldn't be more wrong about this. Do you really think that EJ, anyone in the Bills organization or anyone in the NFL for that matter really cares at all what the media or FSU fans are saying about EJ now that he's in the NFL?? I can respect that you are probably a big college football fan, but sadly, who cares??? I as a Bills fan could care less if FSU fans miss EJ or if they say in the media or on twitter that he is the worst QB in college football history. I think most would disagree with you whole heartedly and say, who really cares what he did, said, played like or was perceived in college. He's not in college anymore, move on.

[bizell]

okay, so I had the chance to watch EJ his whole time @ FSU and Jameis all of his career so far @ FSU

 

Manuel was a good college QB, and he was 4-0 in bowl games, but I never really felt comfortable with him @ the qb save for two games-

the bowl game against Notre Dame and the Clemson game last year. I always feel safe in thinking that Jameis is going to make the right read and find the open man. For instance, everyone was always hard on Nick O'leary (a 5 star TE prospect from a few years back) because he only had 37 receptions and 3 touchdowns his first two years. This year? O'leary has 16/293/5.

Jameis is the natural. He's got it all.

 

edit: in summary, saying winston is better than EJ isn't a slight to EJ- Winston is really, really really !@#$ing good

Edited October 20, 2013 by bizell

[YoloinOhio]

okay, so I had the chance to watch EJ his whole time @ FSU and Jameis all of his career so far @ FSU

 

Manuel was a good college QB, and he was 4-0 in bowl games, but I never really felt comfortable with him @ the qb save for two games-

the bowl game against Notre Dame and the Clemson game last year. I always feel safe in thinking that Jameis is going to make the right read and find the open man. For instance, everyone was always hard on Nick O'leary (a 5 star TE prospect from a few years back) because he only had 37 receptions and 3 touchdowns his first two years. This year? O'leary has 16/293/5.

Jameis is the natural. He's got it all.

 

edit: in summary, saying winston is better than EJ isn't a slight to EJ- Winston is really, really really !@#$ing good

THANK YOU. Nice to have an informed opinion since you have watched them both. Yes, looks like Winston is off the chain. Will wait a minute to put him in the HOF though unlike Twitter which anoints the next best thing every other week.

 

I'm a Gator fan, have countless FSU fans as friends, and watch SEC/ACC football closely. Jameis is in fact miles better than EJ. It is just a fact guys. Don't worry about it though, because Jameis is also probably the best QB to play in the state of Florida in a LOOONG time. Jameis is better, but that is because Jameis is great.

 

Also, sadly (I know this is not popular to say) EJ has always kind of sucked and still does. Just more facts. FSU fans would be the first to tell you this too, btw. Great guy, average QB (at best).

I assume you are a Bills fan and you must have been uber disappointed on draft day then! If that is the case, he has really overachieved.

[Beerball]

I can't figure out if this is an EJ post or a Winston thread. If it's a Winston thread then it belongs on the NCAA forum. If it's an EJ thread then it belongs here. What's a mod to do?

[YoloinOhio]

I can't figure out if this is an EJ post or a Winston thread. If it's a Winston thread then it belongs on the NCAA forum. If it's an EJ thread then it belongs here. What's a mod to do?

It's an EJ thread I was defending him for being compared to Winston/treated like chopped liver last night in Twitter-verse.

[1billsfan]

Even if EJ isn't elite, just remember that 4 out of the last 6 Superbowls were won by non-ellite type of QBs. Flacco (1), E. Manning(2) and Rothlesburger (1). The Ravens, Giants and Steelers win by having their QBs play great at the right time, having expertly assembled teams and great coaching. This is the model the Bills are probably going for because the only other option is to lose all your games so that you can draft a guy like Winston.

 

I really see EJ Manuel as being the perfect kind of QB to mold for a long haul Superbowl contending team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You guys are homers, not objective or you would see that Winston is clearly superior to EJ period. Had EJ been drafted by say the Jets you as a bills fan would be laughing and bashing them for wasting a first round pick on the guy. Bottom line the same inept front office lucked into the Legend of Kiko but screwed the pooch on the first round QB. So we will be sitting here 3 years from now with ANOTHER bust at QB, another Captain checkdown it seems.

 

Wow. Pot, kettle on the "objective" thing?

[Heitz]

I can't figure out if this is an EJ post or a Winston thread. If it's a Winston thread then it belongs on the NCAA forum. If it's an EJ thread then it belongs here. What's a mod to do?

 

Can you just ban everyone involved?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Also, sadly (I know this is not popular to say) EJ has always kind of sucked and still does. Just more facts. FSU fans would be the first to tell you this too, btw. Great guy, average QB (at best).

 

Facts...you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

EJ threw x passes and y interceptions, projecting Winton's season to date he will throw x passes and y interceptions - replace x and y with the relevant, correct numbers and that would be a fact.

 

Saying someone "kind of sucks and still does" will never be a fact. It's your opinion, which may or may not have enough basis to be worth the electrons that transmit it.