PromoTheRobot Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Some of the top college football conferences are planning to create their own super-level above mere NCAA schools. Part-time students? Pay for play? You betcha! http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Go big or go home.. might as well just own it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Perhaps the Bills can compete in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Perhaps the Bills can compete in this league. We couldn't recuit against SEC schools. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This is appalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This is appealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 As someone who actually believes in education (and works at a Division II school), this disgusts me. Why bother with classes at all? Just make another semi-pro league. It's not like all that money that these schools bring in from athletics gets spent in the classroom anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This is appeasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 As someone who actually believes in education (and works at a Division II school), this disgusts me. Why bother with classes at all? Just make another semi-pro league. It's not like all that money that these schools bring in from athletics gets spent in the classroom anyway. I believe in education, too. I don't get what is so disgusting about this. It seems the big schools are acknowledging that sports have overshadowed academics and are addressing it as such. How does this affect anyone's education besides the athletes? Who by many accounts are already getting by on the work of tutors and/or filling out schedules with Basket Weaving 101. Going to college to play football and to get an education are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but the onus is on the student to get what they want out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 As someone who actually believes in education (and works at a Division II school), this disgusts me. Why bother with classes at all? Just make another semi-pro league. It's not like all that money that these schools bring in from athletics gets spent in the classroom anyway. I think that is likely the goal. I think we'll see some sort of 'degree' program in "Football Science" or something where they will take minimal classes and eventually eliminate that as people get used to the idea. I mean, how annoying it when you have a great athlete and he has to spend all that time learning to read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I believe in education, too. I don't get what is so disgusting about this. It seems the big schools are acknowledging that sports have overshadowed academics and are addressing it as such. How does this affect anyone's education besides the athletes? Who by many accounts are already getting by on the work of tutors and/or filling out schedules with Basket Weaving 101. Going to college to play football and to get an education are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but the onus is on the student to get what they want out of it. Then go play semi pro and feel free to enroll in a school part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 All I'm saying is you could probably field a Pro Bowl caliber roster full of guys who are hardly literate who went to these schools. The academic aspect already is and has been a farce for quite some time. This new proposition is just simply pulling back the curtain a little bit. Transparency is a good thing, right? Then go play semi pro and feel free to enroll in a school part time. Why would someone choose to do that when he could get a scholarship to a high profile university and play on a huge stage, maximizing his exposure and opportunity to strike it rich in the NFL? I'm just failing to see what the major difference(s) is(/are) compared to the system currently in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 If the NCAA says these schools can't participate in other NCAA sport events, say....men's basketball (the largest money driver of all sports, by far, for these conferences), it could be a huge blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 So does this type of action involve only football? You can differentiate the talent that goes into football for both the Division 1-A & 1-AA, but in basketball, that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 So does this type of action involve only football? You can differentiate the talent that goes into football for both the Division 1-A & 1-AA, but in basketball, that's a different story. Well if this cash grab is successful...and let's face it, this is all it is...then expect the big basketball conferences to do the same thing. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I hear this all the time. The big school football programs make big money and the poor football players doesn't get any of it. But, a full ride 4 or 5 year scholarship with books and tutors and room and board probably goes for the neighborhood of $50,000 per year. How many high school kids fresh out of HS can make that much? Then they can, if they're not lazy, get a college degree and make connections with alums for jobs post graduation. They get to workout in fancy gyms with personal trainers that most people could not afford the membership fee for. Doesn't sound to me like they got it so bad. Maybe loosen up the rules a little and give them a $25 per week allowance and let them work summer jobs. Why would colleges even have football teams if there weren't students playing on them? It would just be another pro league. Then, they'd be in competition with the NFL for the best talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well if this cash grab is successful...and let's face it, this is all it is...then expect the big basketball conferences to do the same thing. PTR And if they were to do that with basketball would they exclude smaller colleges who happen to have good teams, or colleges that have had their moments? Georgetown, Villanova, Gonzaga, Creighton, Butler, Virginia Commonwealth, Murray State, Old Dominion, Princeton, Iona? Would they really turn away from these schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Perhaps the Bills can compete in this league. Exactly. Been waiting for this "minor league". Perfect for the AAA Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This would ruin ncaa football for me which just become my favorite 'sport'. Even got ub seasons this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I believe in education, too. I don't get what is so disgusting about this. the problem is, these universities are subsidized at the state AND federal level. of course the football programs generate revenue for the schools, but that money goes into a pot and is doled out accordingly (on a school level.) you're now asking tax payers to foot the bill to put college athletes on a salary--perhaps a condition of this program should be that every piece and parcel of each of these programs must be made in america by american based companies. but that won't happen. i love watching football as much as the next man, but i would much rather put every aspiring mathematician on a 50g a year salary, so that way more kids would make a decision in high school to stick with math, so they could get that college pay day. you can scoff, or roll your eyes at it, but heres the thing, its MY money thats going to pay these athletes salaries, so it should be MY vote that decides who gets the money. the problem isnt paying college athletes, the problem is that once again, a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR decision is being made about how YOUR tax dollars get spent, and the decision is being made by a huge business (the head of athletic conferences) that is already rich beyond anyones measure. just like investment banking, and variable rate mortgages: these men have made all the money they can in their field, and now theyre coming for whats in your wallet. americans are just too stupid and passive to understand/care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 the problem is, these universities are subsidized at the state AND federal level. of course the football programs generate revenue for the schools, but that money goes into a pot and is doled out accordingly (on a school level.) you're now asking tax payers to foot the bill to put college athletes on a salary--perhaps a condition of this program should be that every piece and parcel of each of these programs must be made in america by american based companies. but that won't happen. i love watching football as much as the next man, but i would much rather put every aspiring mathematician on a 50g a year salary, so that way more kids would make a decision in high school to stick with math, so they could get that college pay day. you can scoff, or roll your eyes at it, but heres the thing, its MY money thats going to pay these athletes salaries, so it should be MY vote that decides who gets the money. the problem isnt paying college athletes, the problem is that once again, a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR decision is being made about how YOUR tax dollars get spent, and the decision is being made by a huge business (the head of athletic conferences) that is already rich beyond anyones measure. just like investment banking, and variable rate mortgages: these men have made all the money they can in their field, and now theyre coming for whats in your wallet. americans are just too stupid and passive to understand/care. Aren't my tax dollars already supporting the college football machine? Is there a tax increase that I missed included in this proposal? I don't appreciate the implication that I'm stupid or passive; I'm just pointing out that this Division 4 proposal isn't that radical compared to how the major football programs are currently ran. I don't want to tread into PPP territory. We should be analyzing this change in comparison to how the system currently operates, and not how it should or could be in a perfect world. I'm not saying it's "right" that certain athletes are put on a pedestal at the expense of non-student athletes (and student athletes playing less popular sports), but I think it might be naive to think this proposal has much of an impact on anyone besides the athletes of these particular universities and their athletic departments. If you and others are saying, "I don't want these athletes to benefit at the expense of the other students," I agree. But I'll just say 1.) I don't know that the other students are actually missing out on anything academically and scholarship-wise, and 2.) Major college athletics have been moving in this direction for quite some time, so I don't think the Division 4 proposal is drastically different in the overall scope of major college athletics. Like I said upthread, it seems to me that the proposal offers some transparency. Maybe now those of us who are ignorant or indifferent to the inner workings of major college athletics can now make a better informed decision on how to move forward (or vote on pertinent issues). Better than a weekly scandal or rule violation related to "amateur" athletics which operate on a cut throat professional level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 They're still smarting over Boise State's kicking Oklahoma's azz in the Fiesta Bowl, aren't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You can argue that these programs make big bucks for the school and NCAA. But that money goes to the pot to support the other sports. The women's volleyball, the men's track, the women's wrestling. Sure, it may get Johnny out of the ghetto and a chance to get a college education when he can play for Florida. Nut it also gets Veronica out of the same place. And it gets Jim, an honors student a chance to run cross. And Sue a chance to go to Stanford because she not only excelled academically but athletically as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Perhaps the Bills can compete in this league. Was wondering how long that'd take hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 The thing is, guys, that these are still schools. I mean it just seems funny to attach institutes of higher education with their names, mascots and "educational traditions" to this. On a strained tangential analogy what if the Bills and a few other NFL teams became the "Any drugs...any time" portion of the league? How prideful would you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Well if this cash grab is successful...and let's face it, this is all it is...then expect the big basketball conferences to do the same thing. PTR They can't for two reasons: 1.) they are locked into (vai the NCAA) a contract with CBS until 2024. 2.) CBS only paid that much because they are, with the NCAA, getting a package deal for all the DIV1 schools in the tourney. In fact, they sell the tourney (and make 1 billion in ad revenue per year) as an opportunity for "Ciderella" to win it all (which is the opposite of what the football conferences want). No network is going to pay the conferences and schools more money for this tournament than they get now if they split up and away from the NCAA. (From sportsbusinessnews.com): The NCAA is in the midst of a 14-year, $10.8 billion media agreement with CBS and. According to the NCAA more than 96% of that money – an average of $740 million each year – goes to the NCAA conferences and schools. USA Today reported the 2012 NCAA tournament generated more than $1 billion in advertising revenue according to Kantar Media. "Football may be the national pastime, but college basketball is in the driver's seat," says Jon Swallen, chief research officer at Kantar. These confernces can't do without that basketball money and I don't see the NCAA letting them split football off tho do its own thing. The NCAA will counter this by offering a cash stipend to players for expenses. Edited July 23, 2013 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's about time. I look at it like this. NCAA is nothing more than an illegal monopoly over football for players between HS and 3 years out. They illegally restrict the ability of these adults to make a living which is in direct conflict with every Americans "unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Since most of these schools are Public University, the denial of these rights are even more intrusive then say if it were done by a private company. Free market place, fellas. These schools and these athletes should be able to do whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It's about time. I look at it like this. NCAA is nothing more than an illegal monopoly over football for players between HS and 3 years out. They illegally restrict the ability of these adults to make a living which is in direct conflict with every Americans "unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Since most of these schools are Public University, the denial of these rights are even more intrusive then say if it were done by a private company. Free market place, fellas. These schools and these athletes should be able to do whatever they want. You should look at it like this: these student athletes have entered into a contract with their school whereas they will be compensated for their efforts. There is nothing "illegal" about this. And the schools are the ones ripping them off, not the NCAA, which has made the rules that allow the schools to rip off the students. No one's rights are being violated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Why is the Big 10 included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 They can't for two reasons: 1.) they are locked into (vai the NCAA) a contract with CBS until 2024. 2.) CBS only paid that much because they are, with the NCAA, getting a package deal for all the DIV1 schools in the tourney. In fact, they sell the tourney (and make 1 billion in ad revenue per year) as an opportunity for "Ciderella" to win it all (which is the opposite of what the football conferences want). No network is going to pay the conferences and schools more money for this tournament than they get now if they split up and away from the NCAA. (From sportsbusinessnews.com): These confernces can't do without that basketball money and I don't see the NCAA letting them split football off tho do its own thing. The NCAA will counter this by offering a cash stipend to players for expenses. If the proposed Division 4 schools go for a real college playoff system with 8-16 teams, the TV revenue would dwarf the basketball tournament. The football playoff can easily get over $1 billion in annual revenue, and would be split among less schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I always envisioned college as a place of education, and football (or any sport) as a diversion students pursued in their free time from studies. I know reality has already tarnished that image. Nonetheless, count me amongst those disturbed by these proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I always envisioned college as a place of education, and football (or any sport) as a diversion students pursued in their free time from studies. I know reality has already tarnished that image. Nonetheless, count me amongst those disturbed by these proposed changes. How many of the regular students' talents contribute to hundreds of millions in revenues to their schools while they're still in college. The nostalgic notion of the student athlete in a major Div 1 sport hasn't existed for nearly two generations. Colleges can't have it both ways. If they're going to use student athletes to earn billions of revenues, they need to pay their employees properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Some of the top college football conferences are planning to create their own super-level above mere NCAA schools. Part-time students? Pay for play? You betcha! http://www.cbssports...llege-athletics PTR Don't they already have that? It's called the SEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) If the proposed Division 4 schools go for a real college playoff system with 8-16 teams, the TV revenue would dwarf the basketball tournament. The football playoff can easily get over $1 billion in annual revenue, and would be split among less schools. ESPN currently pays only 150 million a year for all 5 BCS bowl games. It is in the process of a 12 year deal for the playoffs which will cost 500 million a year. That's with 2 playoff games per year (4 teams, so forget about ""8-16") and 12 total championship games. So, once that deal is signed, the football money (like the bigger basketball contract) is set for 12 more years. Edited July 23, 2013 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 All of this money we are talking about goes to a lot of other sports. A lot of sports and individuals profit off of the football teams and basketball teams. The soccer team. The lax team. The marching band. The cheerleaders. The mascot. Yep, some schools give free full ride to the mascot. Those people should not get a dime. How dare they profit off of the big sports. Those future all stars are getting robbed. What's worse, some of their own teammates are free riding, getting straight A's but never even getting on the backup team! What nerds. They go on to get real jobs and don't even play Pro! Seriously, unless you've competed in the NCAA you don't really know how good they are to the athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well if this cash grab is successful...and let's face it, this is all it is...then expect the big basketball conferences to do the same thing. PTR Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Then go play semi pro and feel free to enroll in a school part time. And get shot by Aaron Hernandez???? No thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 ESPN currently pays only 150 million a year for all 5 BCS bowl games. It is in the process of a 12 year deal for the playoffs which will cost 500 million a year. That's with 2 playoff games per year (4 teams, so forget about ""8-16") and 12 total championship games. So, once that deal is signed, the football money (like the bigger basketball contract) is set for 12 more years. The ESPN deal was extended last year, and it's not governed by the NCAA but by the teams that make up the former BCS. There's nothing that says they can't expand the playoff to more schools and increase the ESPN contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You should look at it like this: these student athletes have entered into a contract with their school whereas they will be compensated for their efforts. There is nothing "illegal" about this. And the schools are the ones ripping them off, not the NCAA, which has made the rules that allow the schools to rip off the students. No one's rights are being violated... You are absolutely incorrect here man. These Universities, through the NCAA, conspired to keep the wages (i.e. scholarships and modest allowance) to their money making machines limited, not at what the market would allow in a free system. Since there is no other real alternative for these "employees" to get paid for their services, since they are banned from the NFL, it is a clear violation of their right to work, earn money, earn a living, while the Universities, the apparel companies, TV and news outlets, profit hand over fist over their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You are absolutely incorrect here man. These Universities, through the NCAA, conspired to keep the wages (i.e. scholarships and modest allowance) to their money making machines limited, not at what the market would allow in a free system. Since there is no other real alternative for these "employees" to get paid for their services, since they are banned from the NFL, it is a clear violation of their right to work, earn money, earn a living, while the Universities, the apparel companies, TV and news outlets, profit hand over fist over their work. I don't disagree with some of the complaints listed about how colleges handle their student athletes and profits off of them but I don't understand the rights violation point. How is the NFL saying you have to play college ball at least 3 years or be at a certain age to work for them any different than any other company requiring you to have a 4 year degree or more to work for them? Playing football for a living isn't a "right". If they want to work for wages there are plenty of other things a college athlete could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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