Seems like a number of Cardinal players are badmouthing Kolb

[BillsWatch]

Before it was a WR and now it is a DE is bad mouthing Kolb:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000217681/article/calais-campbell-arizona-cardinals-now-have-a-real-qb

"I think it's very likely we can win the division, yes," Campbell told CBSSports.com's Mike Freeman. "I respect every opponent in our division. Every one. But I think of it this way. We were able to hang in a bunch of our division games without a real quarterback.

 

The Cardinals remain a long shot in the West, but Campbell's right -- watching Kolb give way to (Buffalo Barbarian's favorite player) John Skelton, Ryan Lindley and Brian Hoyer was akin to witnessing a 53-person vehicle slam into a brick wall. Over. And over. And over.

 

Bills players are not bad mouthing Frtiz so is that a sign of how bad Kolb was perceived in Arizona or Fritz just got more respect from Bills players?

[Not at the table Karlos]

Wasnt Arizona winning games with kolb before he got hurt

[keepthefaith]

EJ is the future. The future is now.

[jaybee]

We'll learn soon enough what Kolb has to offer. Players beating him up is classless and the coaches of Arizona should let them know that.

 

Joe Montana would have gotten hurt behind that line in Arizona in all liklyhood. If they are gonna beat on anyone thats who they should be beating on.

 

He brings Veteran experience to the position here in Buffalo. Frankly, I think the starting job is his to lose.

 

I just want to see improvement this year...across the board. Thats all I ask at this juncture.

 

jb

[BringBackFergy]

In case you didn't know, Fitz went to Harvard or Yale or something....that might be why the Bills don't badmouth him. I think it was Yale as I recall.

[Rob's House]

I don't know that he was necessarily talking about Kolb. He could very well have been referring to the 3 other scrubs that started last year. The Cards were winning when Kolb was playing.

[NoSaint]

Before it was a WR and now it is a DE is bad mouthing Kolb:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000217681/article/calais-campbell-arizona-cardinals-now-have-a-real-qb

 

 

Bills players are not bad mouthing Frtiz so is that a sign of how bad Kolb was perceived in Arizona or Fritz just got more respect from Bills players?

 

Or simply a sign we have quality guys and az should just stop talking about ex players to make excuses for past failings.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't know that he was necessarily talking about Kolb. He could very well have been referring to the 3 other scrubs that started last year. The Cards were winning when Kolb was playing.

 

Yes.

 

FWIW (and it might not be a whole lot), none of the QB criticisms have mentioned Kolb by name.

 

This at least has to be mentioned.

[Snorom]

I would of preferred we kept Fitz here for 1 more season to groom and help EJ along instead of bringing in Kolb, but the fans already tied the noose around Fitz

 

Yes Fitz had his issues and weaknesses, but he has proven to be a better QB then Kolb when you compare careers...

[Santana]

It'll be the same result, their offensive line is still terrible and Carson Palmer is about as mobile as Drew Bledsoe was. Anyone can look like an all star in shorts and no pads, if anything the biggest change is going to be the coaching.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I would of preferred we kept Fitz here for 1 more season to groom and help EJ along instead of bringing in Kolb, but the fans already tied the noose around Fitz

 

Yes Fitz had his issues and weaknesses, but he has proven to be a better QB then Kolb when you compare careers...

 

To the bolded. I believe you are wrong.

 

I think the fans would have accepted Fitz as a bridge QB/mentor/placeholder.

 

But the even before the Nix-Dominick phone call, Fitz had said that he was "a starter in the NFL" and it became clear he wasn't going to remain with the Bills if the club viewed him as a stopgap.

 

I think the decision was Fitz' more than anyone else's.

[The Voice of Truth]

Did anyone watch the game against the Bills? Did you see Kolb's performance in that game? If I were an Arizona fan or player, if that performance was at all typical of his yearly performance I'd be badmouthing him too. He was horrible. Now, was it his fault? I don't know. His O-line was horrendous and their was massive pressure etc. But it's not exactly like he was doing much to help it out. He looked like he sucked. We just have to hope that he is better suited to our system and our players and maybe he was banged up mentally and physically last year and those things were the reasons for his very poor performance. We also have to hope that EJ emerges early and can at least get enough of the team's confidence in him that they are content to rally behind him, especially the veterans. These are my hopes anyway.

Edited July 14, 2013 by The Voice of Truth

[RealityCheck]

Before it was a WR and now it is a DE is bad mouthing Kolb:

http://www.nfl.com/n...-have-a-real-qb

 

 

Bills players are not bad mouthing Frtiz so is that a sign of how bad Kolb was perceived in Arizona or Fritz just got more respect from Bills players?

I don't know. I think it's possible that you are reading way to much into this. The fact is that they didn't have a franchise QB last season at any point. They started more than a few QBs after Kolb if I remember correctly.

[BRAWNDO]

To the bolded. I believe you are wrong.

 

I think the fans would have accepted Fitz as a bridge QB/mentor/placeholder.

 

But the even before the Nix-Dominick phone call, Fitz had said that he was "a starter in the NFL" and it became clear he wasn't going to remain with the Bills if the club viewed him as a stopgap.

 

I think the decision was Fitz' more than anyone else's.

 

Correct, he wanted more guaranteed money in his restructured contract. He was afraid the Bills would cut him at the end of training camp and he would be jobless this upcoming season.

[bigK14094]

EJ is the future. The future is now.

No wine before its time.

[WIDE LEFT]

The terrible O line excuse is tired and a cop out. A good and decisive QB does well behind any line. I recall the year Brady was hurt in game one and his replacement ended up being sacked 40+ times that year, while that same O line had given up the least amount of sacks the year before,when Brady was the QB.

 

I hope for the best with Kolb, but his history of taking lots of sacks is not encouraging - very Rob Johnsonish if you ask me.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The terrible O line excuse is tired and a cop out. A good and decisive QB does well behind any line. I recall the year Brady was hurt in game one and his replacement ended up being sacked 40+ times that year, while that same O line had given up the least amount of sacks the year before,when Brady was the QB.

 

I hope for the best with Kolb, but his history of taking lots of sacks is not encouraging - very Rob Johnsonish if you ask me.

 

This is true to a very large extent.

 

Bad QBs definitely make their O-lines look worse that they are just as good QBs do the opposite.

 

One of the elements of this dynamic is that the O-line subconsciously doesn't want to fight as hard for their QB.

 

 

And every time I hear people explain Kolb's shaky performances it makes me think of Rob Johnson and how good he was at making his O-line look bad.

[CardinalScotts]

Rob Johnson o-line was terrible that's what made Flutie via able he covered for a terrible o-line. As far as Cardinals players they are upset Kolb got out and they are still there

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Rob Johnson o-line was terrible that's what made Flutie via able he covered for a terrible o-line. As far as Cardinals players they are upset Kolb got out and they are still there

 

Johnson still was complicit in making that O-line look bad.

 

He was jittery and lacked composure, held the ball too long and on top of that he alienated his linemen every time he ran out of bounds for a loss (costing them a sack) instead of throwing the ball away for no gain (costing him an incompletion).

 

That self-centeredness in RJ valuing his statistics more than their statistics along with his complete lack of pocket instincts were a much larger factor in he becoming the most-sacked QB of all time (a statistical fact) than how good the Bills O-line was or wasn't.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Johnson still was complicit in making that O-line look bad.

 

He was jittery and lacked composure, held the ball too long and on top of that he alienated his linemen every time he ran out of bounds for a loss (costing them a sack) instead of throwing the ball away for no gain (costing him an incompletion).

 

That self-centeredness in RJ valuing his statistics more than their statistics along with his complete lack of pocket instincts were a much larger factor in he becoming the most-sacked QB of all time (a statistical fact) than how good the Bills O-line was or wasn't.

 

Do we really think that he lost yards via sack to save completion percentage stats? And was unaware his biggest red flag was his sacks taken, not an extra 4 incompletions?

Edited July 14, 2013 by NoSaint

[Max997]

Before it was a WR and now it is a DE is bad mouthing Kolb:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000217681/article/calais-campbell-arizona-cardinals-now-have-a-real-qb

 

 

Bills players are not bad mouthing Frtiz so is that a sign of how bad Kolb was perceived in Arizona or Fritz just got more respect from Bills players?

 

Or maybe Bills players have a little more class and professionalism then cardinals players?

 

Didn't Kolb help get the Cards off to a good start last year even if his numbers were not good?

 

That may have been a blanket statement about the overall QB play rather then just Kolb

 

And does it really matter what another team says about the Bills eventual backup QB?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The terrible O line excuse is tired and a cop out. A good and decisive QB does well behind any line. I recall the year Brady was hurt in game one and his replacement ended up being sacked 40+ times that year, while that same O line had given up the least amount of sacks the year before,when Brady was the QB.

 

I hope for the best with Kolb, but his history of taking lots of sacks is not encouraging - very Rob Johnsonish if you ask me.

 

Well. Where to start here?

 

A QB who is fast at making reads and getting the ball out can be more effective behind a poor line. Play-calling that creates confusion and sets up quick plays can also help. That part is true.

 

Can "a good and decisive QB do well behind any line"? Not exactly. As the Rams line deteriorated from "the greatest show on turf" while Martz continued to play his vertical WC variant, Kurt Warner took more and more of a beating until he became an ineffective QB. Several years of R&R later, he got another chance, and hey presto one team's ineffective discard became another team's Ticket to the Dance. And Warner's on the record stating that he retired in AZ because he thought he was going to get killed or badly hurt playing behind that line. And while he's not a runner, with his arena league background Warner always had fast reads and a fast release when the plays allowed and the ability to move around in the pocket to foil pressure.

 

On any given Sunday, I have seen Brady, Brees, and Rodgers all look pathetically ineffective whilst playing "run for your Life" behind a line that was, on that particular Sunday, porous.

 

So is it the QB or is it the line? Yes. It's both. A fast-thinking QB with great pocket instincts can compensate for a less than stellar line. But no QB can overcome a totally terrible line.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Or maybe Bills players have a little more class and professionalism then cardinals players?

 

Didn't Kolb help get the Cards off to a good start last year even if his numbers were not good?

 

That may have been a blanket statement about the overall QB play rather then just Kolb

 

And does it really matter what another team says about the Bills eventual backup QB?

It just seems like deflecting responsibility, which is not a good sign in AZ

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Do we really think that he lost yards via sack to save completion percentage stats? And was unaware his biggest red flag was his sacks taken, not an extra 4 incompletions?

 

You know, this is a fair question and I remember Johnson doing this at least 4 times as a Bill.

 

So the question becomes:

 

Did he know or did he not know that running out of bounds for a loss was worse than throwing the ball out of bounds for an incompletion?

 

There's no satisfactory answer, thus making the question somewhat irrelevant.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

[NoSaint]

 

 

You know, this is a fair question and I remember Johnson doing this at least 4 times as a Bill.

 

So the question becomes:

 

Did he know or did he not know that running out of bounds for a loss was worse than throwing the ball out of bounds for an incompletion?

 

There's no satisfactory answer, thus making the question somewhat irrelevant.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

 

Agreed. I think it was more being situationally unaware than being on a higher level and selfish, but whatever the cause, no good

Edited July 14, 2013 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Agreed. I think it was more being situationally unaware than being on a higher level and selfish, but whatever the cause, no good

 

It really was unbelievable.

 

If one single (repeated) act can define a person's (in)competency for their job, that would be the one.

[3rdand12]

No wine before its time.

are you from Rochester area ?

i laughed out loud.

Well said sir !

 

Well. Where to start here?

 

A QB who is fast at making reads and getting the ball out can be more effective behind a poor line. Play-calling that creates confusion and sets up quick plays can also help. That part is true.

 

Can "a good and decisive QB do well behind any line"? Not exactly. As the Rams line deteriorated from "the greatest show on turf" while Martz continued to play his vertical WC variant, Kurt Warner took more and more of a beating until he became an ineffective QB. Several years of R&R later, he got another chance, and hey presto one team's ineffective discard became another team's Ticket to the Dance. And Warner's on the record stating that he retired in AZ because he thought he was going to get killed or badly hurt playing behind that line. And while he's not a runner, with his arena league background Warner always had fast reads and a fast release when the plays allowed and the ability to move around in the pocket to foil pressure.

 

On any given Sunday, I have seen Brady, Brees, and Rodgers all look pathetically ineffective whilst playing "run for your Life" behind a line that was, on that particular Sunday, porous.

 

So is it the QB or is it the line? Yes. It's both. A fast-thinking QB with great pocket instincts can compensate for a less than stellar line. But no QB can overcome a totally terrible line.

i consider your points to be true. not everyone feels that way . If you noticed Gaileys play calling, and you did : ) it was work around for Fitz. i expect if Kolb starts , there will be less the coaches have to consider in him.

I expect Kolb to start for some reason. and i think he will have good shot to do well.

lets hope we have a REAL dilemna at QB because they both are damned decent

[CBD]

Before it was a WR and now it is a DE is bad mouthing Kolb:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000217681/article/calais-campbell-arizona-cardinals-now-have-a-real-qb

 

 

Bills players are not bad mouthing Frtiz so is that a sign of how bad Kolb was perceived in Arizona or Fritz just got more respect from Bills players?

Kolb didn't play after week 6

[Captain Hindsight]

Did Ryan Lindley throw for 75 yards completing 15 passes last year?

[You herd it hear last]

In case you didn't know, Fitz went to Harvard or Yale or something....that might be why the Bills don't badmouth him. I think it was Yale as I recall.

goes to show how much YOU know...it was Dartmouth dummy

[Formerly Allan in MD]

In case you didn't know, Fitz went to Harvard or Yale or something....that might be why the Bills don't badmouth him. I think it was Yale as I recall.

Did they salute too? BTW, it was Harvard.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Did they salute too? BTW, it was Harvard.

 

Pretty sure it was Dartmouth or possibly Dickinson.

 

One of those old Eastern colleges.

[You herd it hear last]

Pretty sure it was Dartmouth or possibly Dickinson.

 

One of those old Eastern colleges.

 

u meen KOWLIJ?

 

didn't he do well on the rorschach test to get in the nfl too?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

u meen KOWLIJ?

 

didn't he do well on the rorschach test to get in the nfl too?

 

That or the horshack test, one of those.

 

Perhaps Kollege Studnet could shed some light on this conversation.

[BringBackFergy]

Did they salute too? BTW, it was Harvard.

I always heard it was Yale because he excelled in their Turkey Wing Offense (TWO)....pretty sure it was Yale despite what these other knuckleheads are saying (Dartmouth? Dickinson??....LOL...really guys...do some research)

[BuffaloBill]

We'll learn soon enough what Kolb has to offer. Players beating him up is classless and the coaches of Arizona should let them know that.

 

Joe Montana would have gotten hurt behind that line in Arizona in all liklyhood. If they are gonna beat on anyone thats who they should be beating on.

 

He brings Veteran experience to the position here in Buffalo. Frankly, I think the starting job is his to lose.

 

I just want to see improvement this year...across the board. Thats all I ask at this juncture.

 

jb

 

Well said.

[Doc]

Most likely Campbell was talking about Skelton and Lindley. But he'll be in for a rude awakening seeing the statue Palmer behind that OL.

[NoSaint]

Most likely Campbell was talking about Skelton and Lindley. But he'll be in for a rude awakening seeing the statue Palmer behind that OL.

 

Yea, why would it be directed the guy they traded a defensive probowler for and gave a big contract to when they complain about not having a qb

[Malazan]

This whole thread is a non-issue. The guy was likely commenting on none of their QBs staying healthy or lasting more than a couple games.

 

I have serious doubts about Kolb, but man, some of you people really try to stretch things to make it your narrative.

[hondo in seattle]

Well. Where to start here?

 

A QB who is fast at making reads and getting the ball out can be more effective behind a poor line. Play-calling that creates confusion and sets up quick plays can also help. That part is true.

 

Can "a good and decisive QB do well behind any line"? Not exactly. As the Rams line deteriorated from "the greatest show on turf" while Martz continued to play his vertical WC variant, Kurt Warner took more and more of a beating until he became an ineffective QB. Several years of R&R later, he got another chance, and hey presto one team's ineffective discard became another team's Ticket to the Dance. And Warner's on the record stating that he retired in AZ because he thought he was going to get killed or badly hurt playing behind that line. And while he's not a runner, with his arena league background Warner always had fast reads and a fast release when the plays allowed and the ability to move around in the pocket to foil pressure.

 

On any given Sunday, I have seen Brady, Brees, and Rodgers all look pathetically ineffective whilst playing "run for your Life" behind a line that was, on that particular Sunday, porous.

 

So is it the QB or is it the line? Yes. It's both. A fast-thinking QB with great pocket instincts can compensate for a less than stellar line. But no QB can overcome a totally terrible line.

 

+1

 

Well said.