NoSaint Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Does it SJB? How about this scenario: Boy meets girl, boy proposes and buys her a $785.000 ring. Girl says yes and takes said ring. Boy starts slapping her around, sleeps with her family members and her friends, starts drinking and drugging, etc. Girl breaks the engagement. Who gets to keep the ring? Btw, I am NOT in any way suggesting that this is what happend wrt Mario. I am his biggest fan based on his donations to the Houston PD. My point is that this is a case that if the parties cannot settle on their own, belongs in court. And btw it will probably never go to trial. The judge isn't going to wate his or her time on this b.s. The judge will order the ring to be sold, the money split in some way, and of course the lawyers will get their cut. Personally I'd say give the ring back and leave When did society decide it was reasonable that upon engagement a man provide a ring worth approximately 3 months pay which is given to the party more wronged should things go bad? That doesn't come off atleast a little crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Enough of this drama! Just trade Mario for Skelton and be done with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Does it SJB? How about this scenario: Boy meets girl, boy proposes and buys her a $785.000 ring. Girl says yes and takes said ring. Boy starts slapping her around, sleeps with her family members and her friends, starts drinking and drugging, etc. Girl breaks the engagement. Who gets to keep the ring? Btw, I am NOT in any way suggesting that this is what happend wrt Mario. I am his biggest fan based on his donations to the Houston PD. My point is that this is a case that if the parties cannot settle on their own, belongs in court. And btw ait will probably never go to trial. The judge isn't going to wate his or her time on this b.s. The judge will order the ring to be sold, the money split in some way, and of course the lawyers will get their cut. In my mind the hypothetical abuse doesn't change the fact that she should give the ring back. It's a "gift" given as part of an offer to enter into a partnership. If the woman decides at some point she no longer wishes to be in that partnership, she should give back this symbol of her promise to join. That has nothing to do with the law, just my opinion on what's right and what's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 In my mind the hypothetical abuse doesn't change the fact that she should give the ring back. It's a "gift" given as part of an offer to enter into a partnership. If the woman decides at some point she no longer wishes to be in that partnership, she should give back this symbol of her promise to join. That has nothing to do with the law, just my opinion on what's right and what's wrong. So would the hypothetical punch in the mouth also be considered a "gift?" I know that there are no easy answers. What I also know is that Mario is lucky. Yes, lucky. If he married this girl, had 2 kids and THEN got dumped, he could say "bye bye" to 25% of his gross income, and a judge would let him know when he could see his kids. And the odds of this happening are well over 50%. This woman, based on the info she appears to have released, is no joke. He needs to lick his wounds, get help, and move on. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Does it SJB? How about this scenario: Boy meets girl, boy proposes and buys her a $785.000 ring. Girl says yes and takes said ring. Boy starts slapping her around, sleeps with her family members and her friends, starts drinking and drugging, etc. Girl breaks the engagement. Who gets to keep the ring? The ring is still his even in the above situation. The guy being a criminal doesn't mean you get to steal from him to make up for it. However, the police should get involved and charges filed and a civil suit should also come into play where the woman would likely get more than the ring was valued at anyway. At least that's the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 So would the hypothetical punch in the mouth also be considered a "gift?" Yep, and she ought to give that back to him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 The ring is still his even in the above situation. The guy being a criminal doesn't mean you get to steal from him to make up for it. However, the police should get involved and charges filed and a civil suit should also come into play where the woman would likely get more than the ring was valued at anyway. At least that's the way I see it. *sigh* if only it happened that way for women being domestically abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Yep, and she ought to give that back to him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Committing suicide over a girl that is MAYBE a 7 when you could get multiple 10s without any problem makes me REALLY wonder where his head is at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Committing suicide over a girl that is MAYBE a 7 when you could get multiple 10s without any problem makes me REALLY wonder where his head is at... Yep, because sexual attraction amounts to the totality of emotional intimacy. Also, everybody perceives the world the same, so what the hell is he thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) I completely did not care about this story, until now. "Never treat a lady like a slut, or a slut like a lady, never think you can turn one into the other, and never let one think they are the other, because that ain't fair to nobody." Turns out that was excellent piece of unsolicited advice I got from 75 year old mobster when I was 18. I was at wedding of all places, which is why I was howling laughing inside, because, it was surreal and cliched at the same time. The only major woman problem I've ever had, is the 1 time I haven't followed that advice to the letter. Looks like Mario tried to turn a slut into a lady. Bad plan. This B word has no class, and she lost me immediately today with run running her mouth about private personal business in the press. Edited May 18, 2013 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Personally I'd say give the ring back and leave When did society decide it was reasonable that upon engagement a man provide a ring worth approximately 3 months pay which is given to the party more wronged should things go bad? That doesn't come off atleast a little crazy? Haha, great question! The short answer is, society has never decided this. Or at least, not exactly. Rhetorical, I suspect, but as it appears to be a point of interest and confusion, "Hopeful" shall explain: 1) The "custom" of a diamond engagement ring is the creation of a DeBeers 1920s ad campaign intended to maintain the price of diamonds. It worked. In the 1940s the "Diamonds are Forever" DeBeers ads estabished the connection between "love" and "size of the diamond" and created the "guideline" that a diamond should cost 3 months salary. Salesmen tout rings as an investment. What's the typical price of a used diamond ring? Want investments, stick to mutual funds, bonds, and property. 2) The betrothal gift tradition extends far back in history. The gifts were more varied. Where a ring was customary, it might contain stones with significance to the couple or their families or no stones. This is linked to the idea of marriage as uniting two families: the bride's family promised dowry to be given upon marriage, and the groom's family gave betrothal gifts as earnest of serious intentions. The disposition of these gifts historically followed their purpose to show serious intentions to wed: the groom's betrothal gifts were forfeit if he "breached his promise", while the woman or her family was expected to give back the groom's betrothal gifts if the young woman changed her mind or passed away. Tidbit from the Hopeful past: In 1920s Buffalo, one grandfather broke off his engagement after the banns had been called in church twice. She filed a "breach of promise" suit. He had to reimburse the bride's family for the wedding costs (caterers dress etc) and the jilted bride got the ring. If she had changed her mind, her family would have had to absorb the wedding costs and return the ring. 3) The modern US laws about engagement gifts echo these economic marriage traditions. That diamond ring is still considered as a special case of "conditional gift", given with the expectation of marriage. If the marriage is called off, many states now have "no fault" laws (New York is one) where the ring is returned to the giver no matter what. Other states follow the historical disposition of betrothal gifts: the party "at fault" for breaking the betrothal, forfeits the gift. Historically, a lady refused valuable gifts from a man outside her immediate family, except the betrothal gift given with family permission. To accept costly jewelry without betrothal implied "payment for services rendered" - most improper. Edited May 18, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 In my mind the hypothetical abuse doesn't change the fact that she should give the ring back. It's a "gift" given as part of an offer to enter into a partnership. If the woman decides at some point she no longer wishes to be in that partnership, she should give back this symbol of her promise to join. That has nothing to do with the law, just my opinion on what's right and what's wrong. Shouldn't the hypothetical abuse result in jail time, civil suits etc.... Ring of the abusers previous choosing seems like a pretty random compensation/consequence And hopeful - it was a bit rhetorical but interesting read nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) I know some of this is being discussed in another thread. However that thread was started a long time ago before these texts were revealed. This is deserving of its own thread as it is gaining national attention big time (#2 headline on ESPN and is big on every other sports network right now). I think it's pretty pathetic to be honest this does not have its own thread. It's almost like we are scared to fully acknowledge it as Bills fans or something. I feel bad for the guy. His rep is being screwed over and his money is being taken from him. This chick is probably a witch and is getting the best of him. However, in the end, as usual, it is the guy who will come out looking like an idiot. I feel for him but we have to move on to how this will affect the Bills. How do you think it will? It's has to hurt his locker room presence. The only guy who can now take more of a bashing than him this season is Manti Teo. Just move on from this chick Mario! Take it out on the field! Get over this ho! Buffalo News Article Edited May 18, 2013 by The Voice of Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Now do you see a wedding or engagement ring as a gift in the same way as a birthday or Christmas present? A wedding is an event, you can't ask for an event back. A ring is a physical good which you are handing over to another. It's no different to me than giving anyone anything else. Personally I'd say give the ring back and leave When did society decide it was reasonable that upon engagement a man provide a ring worth approximately 3 months pay which is given to the party more wronged should things go bad? That doesn't come off atleast a little crazy? If it's crazy, don't do it. Be responsible for your own decisions. Don't give someone something that you may want back later. Edited May 18, 2013 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I think most of the players can probably relate. Most people can relate. If you care about someone enough to marry them and it ends with that person, it is absolutely understandable to lose it. Especially when your the one that's being dumped. We can only hope after this battle that he no longer feels bad for himself and is enraged and takes it out on Brady in week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 If she was truly only after his money, why end it before they got married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Who Gets to Keep the Ring after the Engagement is Broken off? Surprisingly enough, the answer to this question is not a simple as it seems. Each State is different. Some courts believe the ring is clearly the donee's as it was a gift, others believe that because the ring was given conditionally, it is the property of the donor until the marriage occurs. http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/return-of-the-engagement-ring.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'd also guess, as I said in the other thread - a relationship that breaks up and reunites 10 times in under a year has a lot of abusive manipulative immature stuff going on- threatening suicide if she leaves is about the male equivalent of pretending to be pregnant. I doubt he had any intention and was likely more of a control thing than an honest declaration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Keeping old texts to use as blackmail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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