Kyle Williams and calling out Bills effort

[Logical Reasoning]

On more than one occasion this season, Kyle Williams noted that some players in the locker room weren't giving their all and were not aware of what it took to play in the NFL. It may be too easy to assume that it was Williams even with the hand injury but it may have been more than that. I would hope that someone would allow some access with Marrone and Kyle Williams to get a feel for what the strengths, mentally, might be.

[RyanC883]

If true, slackers will be GONE will Marrone in charge. He purged the Syracuse roster when he took over. Most of it was voluntary. But he expects 100% every down, every play. 6 scholarship players left his first year. Team went 8-5. First winning season they had since 2001.

[NoSaint]

On more than one occasion this season, Kyle Williams noted that some players in the locker room weren't giving their all and were not aware of what it took to play in the NFL. It may be too easy to assume that it was Williams even with the hand injury but it may have been more than that. I would hope that someone would allow some access with Marrone and Kyle Williams to get a feel for what the strengths, mentally, might be.

 

I imagine they will be allowed to talk

[ganesh]

On more than one occasion this season, Kyle Williams noted that some players in the locker room weren't giving their all and were not aware of what it took to play in the NFL. It may be too easy to assume that it was Williams even with the hand injury but it may have been more than that. I would hope that someone would allow some access with Marrone and Kyle Williams to get a feel for what the strengths, mentally, might be.

 

I am not sure who these players are. The only one that is wild is Barnett, who free-lances on plays. Sheppard and whoever is the other LB are simply not good. Dareus will probably go through a tough conditioning and off season and may be Maronne will be able to motivate him.

[Dr. Trooth]

Kyle's comments after the season cause me to question whether he wants to be with the Bills any longer. On WGR he said something to the effect he was sick of losing and sick of working so hard in the offseason and then starting over again with new staff. If he wants out, I'm sure he'll be accomodated.

[Mr. WEO]

I imagine they will be allowed to talk

 

lol.

[billsfan89]

I am not sure who these players are. The only one that is wild is Barnett, who free-lances on plays. Sheppard and whoever is the other LB are simply not good. Dareus will probably go through a tough conditioning and off season and may be Maronne will be able to motivate him.

 

I also think Dareus went through a lot of personal issues that may have regressed his progress,

[NoSaint]

 

 

I also think Dareus went through a lot of personal issues that may have regressed his progress,

 

Plus he started behind even before those.... You know, by getting fat.

 

 

[pretzel logic]

Marrone has bonafide coaching experience on every level; above all, the Bills with Nassib's ability to throw fastballs in heavy snow could weigh heavy on day 1 of the draft.(trade down for more picks and get nassib late 1rst rd)

[mrags]

above all, the Bills with Nassib's ability to throw fastballs in heavy snow

Do they make snow in the done in Syracuse? Just wondering. Never been to a game there before.

 

;-)

[Punch]

Do they make snow in the done in Syracuse? Just wondering. Never been to a game there before.

 

;-)

 

It snowed during the Pinstripe Bowl and Nassib appeared unfazed. No sleeves, too.

 

EDIT: Although his stats were subpar, Syracuse did win going away.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Punch

[jr1]

Doug won't put up with the outbursts of this brittle footed malcontent

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Doug won't put up with the outbursts of this brittle footed malcontent

 

Boo Boo foot?

[Mr. WEO]

It snowed during the Pinstripe Bowl and Nassib appeared unfazed. No sleeves, too.

 

EDIT: Although his stats were subpar, Syracuse did win going away.

 

This will turn out to be the most fateful college game in Bills history.

[Punch]

 

 

This will turn out to be the most fateful college game in Bills history.

 

At the very least, for the next 3 years.

[Delete This Account]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

Edited January 7, 2013 by john wawrow

[ny33]

Dareus was great over the last six games or so.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

 

On the other hand, Marrone spent two seasons as an offensive lineman in the NFL, then was an assistant coach in the NFL for 4 seasons, and finally a coordinator in the NFL for an additional 3 years.

 

That's 9 seasons of his career he spent in the NFL.

 

Chip Kelly on the other hand didn't even play college football and spent zero seasons as an NFL assistant.

[Best Player Available]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

Once again thanks JW for some logic. I remember how well a certain ex coaches bull horn went over.

Motivation through leadership works a lot better, than treating highly paid professional athletes like a college red shirt freshman.

Kyle Williams has been in Buffalo awhile, He's going on his 3rd DC in 3 years. like many before him he's frustrated. Schobel, Moulds, etc. he wants to win now, he's never been on a winning Bills team.

[NoSaint]

 

 

On the other hand, Marrone spent two seasons as an offensive lineman in the NFL, then was an assistant coach in the NFL for 4 seasons, and finally a coordinator in the NFL for an additional 3 years.

 

That's 9 seasons of his career he spent in the NFL.

 

Chip Kelly on the other hand didn't even play college football and spent zero seasons as an NFL assistant.

 

And to JWs one comment... He's also dealt with strict practice rules in college, no?

 

Shouldn't be all foreign territory.

[Delete This Account]

On the other hand, Marrone spent two seasons as an offensive lineman in the NFL, then was an assistant coach in the NFL for 4 seasons, and finally a coordinator in the NFL for an additional 3 years.

 

That's 9 seasons of his career he spent in the NFL.

 

Chip Kelly on the other hand didn't even play college football and spent zero seasons as an NFL assistant.

 

on the other hand, Marrone has never been an NFL head coach. ruling over a college program, whether you're Nick Saban or Jeff Quinn or Doug Marrone is one thing. a so-called "student athlete" has very little recourse if he's benched or has his scholarship stripped or is suspended. at the NFL level there's far more nuance required, i think.

 

and, i wasn't making any comparisons here to Chip Kelly, nor attempting to suggest i favored Chip Kelly over any of the other candidates. i didn't.

 

and to San Jose's point, Marrone might have NFL experience, but it's as an assistant coach. i would suggest to say that there's a difference being an offensive coordinator and a head coach.

 

all i'm saying is these are words of caution.

 

i exchanged texts today with a very prominent Bills fan, who is excited about this decision.

fine, i said, you can be. good for you.

trouble is, i've been around this new coach block one too many times, and been fooled by hype and expectations and 5-2 and 4-1 starts to know better. i intend to start making my mind up at say this point next year.

 

call me skeptical, i wrote. maybe i'm from Missouri these days: you know, the show me state.

 

jw

[NoSaint]

 

 

on the other hand, Marrone has never been an NFL head coach. ruling over a college program, whether you're Nick Saban or Jeff Quinn or Doug Marrone is one thing. a so-called "student athlete" has very little recourse if he's benched or has his scholarship stripped or is suspended. at the NFL level there's far more nuance required, i think.

 

and, i wasn't making any comparisons here to Chip Kelly, nor attempting to suggest i favored Chip Kelly over any of the other candidates. i didn't.

 

and to San Jose's point, Marrone might have NFL experience, but it's as an assistant coach. i would suggest to say that there's a difference being an offensive coordinator and a head coach.

 

all i'm saying is these are words of caution.

 

i exchanged texts today with a very prominent Bills fan, who is excited about this decision.

fine, i said, you can be. good for you.

trouble is, i've been around this new coach block one too many times, and been fooled by hype and expectations and 5-2 and 4-1 starts to know better. i intend to start making my mind up at say this point next year.

 

call me skeptical, i wrote. maybe i'm from Missouri these days: you know, the show me state.

 

jw

 

One thing I do like - he was around first time head coach Sean Payton - and reading about how he handled changing/building culture around that team.... I hope that marrone learned some good lessons. It seemed like a good balance between the "my way or the highway" re-evaluation of everything and actually having fun and team building and developing some trust with the guys.

 

Another small market team with a long history of struggles... It was a good learning opportunity for him.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I have no idea how Marrone will do. I will say this however.

 

Having spent 9 years as a player, coach, and coordinator in the NFL, I don't have any concerns about Marrone overdoing the "college dictator thing."

 

He could very well fail but I'm thinking if he does, it'll have zero to do with delusions of authority or some alienating autocratic management style.

[Delete This Account]

i think we're a little off topic here. at least one poster here suggested Marrone was very good at getting rid of the slackers at Syracuse. i don't know how that translates at the NFL level.

and any coach that's incapable of getting rid of slackers, be it in college, NFL or high school for that matter, isn't long for the job in the first place.

 

jw

[ganesh]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

 

The thought that "Coaches cannot simply fire NFL Players" is way over stated. If a coach doesn't like a player, the team will find a way to get rid of them. Even the last regime gave the boot to Lynch and Edwards when they found that they could not work with them. The new regime will do the same.

[zevo]

Never really understood the sentiment of tempered enthusiasm....what the heck is the point of being a fan (aka fanatic) if you can't let your thoughts run wild on the possibilities of success of an unknown head coaching commodity.

[ganesh]

Never really understood the sentiment of tempered enthusiasm....what the heck is the point of being a fan (aka fanatic) if you can't let your thoughts run wild on the possibilities of success of an unknown head coaching commodity.

+1

[Delete This Account]

The thought that "Coaches cannot simply fire NFL Players" is way over stated. If a coach doesn't like a player, the team will find a way to get rid of them. Even the last regime gave the boot to Lynch and Edwards when they found that they could not work with them. The new regime will do the same.

 

but what if that player is Mario as a poster here suggested?

 

jw

Edited January 7, 2013 by john wawrow

[RyanC883]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

 

If there are players who are slacking as KW suggested, or if KW is a malcontent looking to be traded, the issue needs to be addressed. Simply coming in and saying, "oh, this is the NFL, I can't deal with certain players poor attitudes" will lead to more years like the last 13. It's time for someone to stop coddling these players. This isn't a "rebuilding," its simply getting rid of a few players who would rather play somewhere else, or "freelance" or "take plays off". And there are also practice limitations in college, so that argument is a red herring. Give it your all here or get out.

 

but what if that player is Mario as a poster here suggested?

 

jw

 

That's pure surmise. Marrone will not get rid of Mario Williams. Mario was playing through an injury, and knows what it takes to play in the NFL. If KY of all people is going to call out another player for sub-par performance while playing through an injury he is a hypocrite.

 

Never really understood the sentiment of tempered enthusiasm....what the heck is the point of being a fan (aka fanatic) if you can't let your thoughts run wild on the possibilities of success of an unknown head coaching commodity.

 

+1

 

i think we're a little off topic here. at least one poster here suggested Marrone was very good at getting rid of the slackers at Syracuse. i don't know how that translates at the NFL level.

and any coach that's incapable of getting rid of slackers, be it in college, NFL or high school for that matter, isn't long for the job in the first place.

 

jw

 

Correct. The point is drawing a contrast between coaches like Dick and Chan who were content with slackers, poor performers, and apparently according to KW "slackers" and a actual coach like Marrone who will address these issues. It's a reason for optimism. He won't put up with the BS that pervaded the last two coaching regimes.

 

I have no idea how Marrone will do. I will say this however.

 

Having spent 9 years as a player, coach, and coordinator in the NFL, I don't have any concerns about Marrone overdoing the "college dictator thing."

 

He could very well fail but I'm thinking if he does, it'll have zero to do with delusions of authority or some alienating autocratic management style.

 

I agree. And if you read the quotes from Syracuse players, he was tough, but fair, approachable and likable. He expected 100% out of you. He was not a dictator, simply demanded that you play to the fullest of your ability. He and Drew Brees crafted the offense that Payton ended up calling the plays from.

[BUFFALOTONE]

but what if that player is Mario as a poster here suggested?

 

jw

 

This is sad to type but you play to his strenghts and find a way to motivate him. I am willing to bet Mario was never pulled aside once he got into college and especially the NFL and told we need more impact and better effort out of you. Thats the downside of showing a guy $100 million. Its the entitlement, I am an Orange fan from afar and really liked the direction Marronehad them going we will see if he can steer the Bills family trucksters.

Edited January 7, 2013 by BUFFALOTONE

[FigPatrick]

Darius is top 3 on that list, if not top. Darius is a bust at this point vs. where he was drafted. Trying to dominate as he did in college with little to no effort. It takes 100% effort all the time and then some in the NFL. He better get faster, stronger and bring his mental game next year or he will look like the 2nd coming of John McCargo.

 

Now, his brother did pass this year and it was tragic. That is understood and may have effected him greatly. Lets hope he breaks out of it and pushes forward....vs. him being pushed back off the line 3 yards every single "figgin" play

[Fan in San Diego]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

 

Those were my exact thoughts as well. In college he has an iron first with teenage kids. How does he motivate players now grown men with a guaranteed contract making 10 mil a year? Big leap, that's where Lovie had an edge. But Lovie didn't fit our defense, I think thats why he didn't get the nod. And to play devil's advocate to my own point, Marrone has been at the NFL level and has seen first hand what it takes to lead and motivate.

[nucci]

Those were my exact thoughts as well. In college he has an iron first with teenage kids. How does he motivate players now grown men with a guaranteed contract making 10 mil a year? Big leap, that's where Lovie had an edge. But Lovie didn't fit our defense, I think thats why he didn't get the nod. And to play devil's advocate to my own point, Marrone has been at the NFL level and has seen first hand what it takes to lead and motivate.

How does anyone?

[PJBrown7]

but what if that player is Mario as a poster here suggested?

 

jw

John, thank you for your input. I for one enjoy the perspectives of someone that is professionally tied to this sport.

 

I personally think Mario played very well after the bye and his wrist surgery which brings me to conclude that he was indeed carrying an injury that effects his game. That makes sense since D linemaen use their hands so much. I'm glad we have him moving forward and anticipate him being an anchor on what can potentially be a very good defense. Can I ask your thoughts on his play?

Edited January 7, 2013 by PJBrown7

[Stenbar]

And to JWs one comment... He's also dealt with strict practice rules in college, no?

 

Shouldn't be all foreign territory.

Lots of great NFL teams were run by very strict coaches. Belicheck, Coughlin, Parcells too name a few. They were very harsh and wouldnt put up with any crap and theyre players didnt quit or run home to mommy...

If he is strict and harsh too bad. If he isnt who cares.. Whatever it takes to Win a Superbowl.

 

but what if that player is Mario as a poster here suggested?

 

jw

Then get rid of Mario...

[Fan in San Diego]

John, thank you for your input. I for one enjoy the perspectives of someone that is professionally tied to this sport.

 

I personally think Mario played very well after the bye and his wrist surgery which brings me to conclude that he was indeed carrying an injury that effects his game. That makes sense since D linemaen use their hands so much. I'm glad we have him moving forward and anticipate him being an anchor on what can potentially be a very good defense. Can I ask your thoughts on his play?

 

+1

[FLFan]

ummm, word of caution: this isn't a college team. these aren't college players. it's one thing to take a my way/highway approach in college. another to do so in the NFL when guaranteed contracts and practice limitations (days, hours and contact) are in place.

and before someone suggests that it's a new coach's perogative to rid team of chaff, well then that was my concern going into a coaching change in the first place: how many Bills fans sign up for more rebuilding?

 

just a few thoughts.

 

jw

Good thoughts they are. I would certainly hope that having been in the NFL and through one attitude rebuilding project at New Orleans in addition to the SU gig, that Marrone would understand this and be able to adjust his style accordingly.

[eball]

This will turn out to be the most fateful college game in Bills history.

 

Right, because the Bills recent history has been so glorious. Geez, man. We get it -- you don't like the hire, and don't think anything that has happened in the past week is a positive for the Bills going forward.

[Cash]

If true, slackers will be GONE will Marrone in charge. He purged the Syracuse roster when he took over. Most of it was voluntary. But he expects 100% every down, every play. 6 scholarship players left his first year. Team went 8-5. First winning season they had since 2001.

 

Actually they went 4-7 his first year, then 8-5 the next year. Then 5-7 in year three, and another 8-5 to round it out.

 

And I don't think only 6 scholarship players left the first year, but I'm not sure. I know the number is around 22 for the first 2 years combined.

[plenzmd1]

i think we're a little off topic here. at least one poster here suggested Marrone was very good at getting rid of the slackers at Syracuse. i don't know how that translates at the NFL level.

and any coach that's incapable of getting rid of slackers, be it in college, NFL or high school for that matter, isn't long for the job in the first place.

 

jw

As an example, I think Shiano(sp) in Tampa a hard ass doing it the wrong way. My gut is he is fired after next season. OTOH, many examples of "disciplinarians/no no nonsense/hard ass/ whatever adjective you prefer" coaches like Parcells, Belicheck, Tomlin, being highly successful.