Joe Flacco - interested?

[DJasper Probincrux III]

Joe Flacco is on the last year of his deal and an extension has not yet been signed with Baltimore. His agent has already been cited as saying that they are looking for top-tier QB money (think Brady money) http://nesn.com/2012/02/agent-thinks-joe-flacco-deserves-tom-brady-money/ Baltimore obviously disagrees or this deal would be done already. Flacco's play of late can't be helping matters either.

 

Clearly Baltimore won't let him walk for nothing but it's likely he'll end up Franchise tagged at the end of the year which would put him on a 1 year deal at about 14.5 million. I don't see Flacco signing that deal and he'll hold out for more money and more years with a nice payday up front. Assuming that the Ravens don't win the Super Bowl, it's reasonable to think that Baltimore will continue to balk at that and will listen to trade offers.

 

Here are Flacco's 3 year stats compared with Fitzpatrick

 

Flacco

2010 - 62.6% 25TDs 10INT Rating 93.6 QBR 60.4

2011 - 57.6% 20TDs 12INT Rating 80.9 QBR 59.7

2012 - 59.2% 15TDs 8INT Rating 85.0 QBR 50.8

 

Fitzpatrick

2010 - 57.8% 23TDs 15INT Rating 81.8 QBR 48.4

2011 - 62.0% 24TDs 23INT Rating 79.1 QBR 50.5

2012 - 61.1% 20TDs 12INT Rating 85.1 QBR 47.2

 

According to the stats Flacco and Fitzpatrick are having very similar years this year. Flacco's past was much better and Fitzpatrick's was about the same. Flacco is 27 years old, Fitzpatrick is 30.

 

Flacco has had 9 4th quarter comebacks and 14 game winning drives in his career, he's won 5 playoff games (understood that's a team stat), and played very well the last 2 playoff seasons and was a Lee Evans drop from the Super Bowl (on an excellent pass following a last minute drive)

 

Fitzpatrick has 5 4th quarter comebacks and 7 game winning drives.

 

Flacco's stats are not up to snuff with the Mannings and Brady's of the world - statistically he trails Tony Romo as well. Baltimore could easily part ways with him if he doesn't lower his asking price, which I don't think he will. Flacco has a history of acting on his own principles. He originally attended Pitt as a recruit of Walt Harris but trasnferred to 1-AA Delaware when he was stuck behind Tyler Palko. Apparently Matt Cavanagh made that call but he came with Wannstedt when Harris left so you could blame Wannstedt if you wish. He felt undervalued by Pitt and he left. I could see the same thing happening with Baltimore.

 

Is Flacco worth the 2 #1s to sign outright? If not what IS he worth to you, both in trade and in dollars?

 

I like the guy, I think he brings a lot of what we need to the table and is a much safer bet than ANY of the rookie QBs available this year.

[Matt in KC]

Does the transition tag (top 10 $ at position) still exist in the new CBA?

 

And on the topic of franchising... they have to adjust the rules so guards like Levitre don't get same pay as OTs if franchised....

[Buftex]

This kind of reminds me of how I felt that Sunday morning in 2002 when there was buzz that the Bills were pursuing a trade for Drew Bledsoe. It was not an option I had ever considered...and, honestly, as an opponent against the Bills, Bledsoe never really instilled a lot of fear in me... but once it happened, I was thrilled with the move. I guess Flacco isn't my dream QB for the Bills, but I wouldn't be upset, at all, if it happened. For some reason though, I just can't see Flacco running Chan Gailey's style of offense. Maybe it is just me...so, are we getting Flacco and ejecting Gailey?

 

The thing about Flacco, he can look really great some times...and only so-so other times. If you participate in fantasy football (I know, I know...) you become aware that Flacco plays much better at home than he does on the road. Not sure why that is, but it indicates some inconsistency.

 

What I do like about Flacco? Huge arm...seems to have football smarts. And, at 27, he still has a little upside, I think.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Buftex

[You herd it hear last]

why'd you leave out Fitz's playoff stats?

 

 

 

 

 

oh, that's right, I forgot

[Smiley Dear]

Flacco isnt going anywhere. It's all posturing.

[DJasper Probincrux III]

Does the transition tag (top 10 $ at position) still exist in the new CBA?

Yes it does - average of top 10 players at that position. Gives them the right to match but no compensation if they choose not to match.

 

Franchise is average of the top 5 salaries - right to match, get 2 #1s if they choose not to, or they can trade the player's rights which has happened several times for less than the 2 #1 price.

 

You can't use both tags in the same year but the Ravens don't have any other pending UFAs worth tagging.

[boyst]

Yes it does - average of top 10 players at that position. Gives them the right to match but no compensation if they choose not to match.

 

Franchise is average of the top 5 salaries - right to match, get 2 #1s if they choose not to, or they can trade the player's rights which has happened several times for less than the 2 #1 price.

 

You can't use both tags in the same year but the Ravens don't have any other pending UFAs worth tagging.

Not sure on this? Is this something you know? Can you cite it?! I remember looking last year.

[DJasper Probincrux III]

Flacco isnt going anywhere. It's all posturing.

It's certainly posturing but I easily see this getting to a Franchise tag situation, if only to extend the deadline in Baltimore's eyes. Once it get's to that someone could really put Baltimore in a bind if they throw Flacco an offer sheet that they don't want to match.

 

If Flacco gets to a tag SOMEBODY is going to throw him an offer sheet. I'd worry about the Jets and Cowboys (especially if Dallas flames out again with Romo).

 

Not sure on this? Is this something you know? Can you cite it?! I remember looking last year.

Here

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8272422b/article/new-wrinkles-to-franchise-tag-salary-cap-happened-for-reason

[reddogblitz]

I'm interested

[Rico]

Highly unlikely that Joe Sucko gets a franchise tag, as there is no way in hell Ozzie Newsome pays him the average of the top-5 QBs. Just say NO to any more statues, even if they are only semi-brain dead like Joe.

[NoSaint]

It's certainly posturing but I easily see this getting to a Franchise tag situation, if only to extend the deadline in Baltimore's eyes. Once it get's to that someone could really put Baltimore in a bind if they throw Flacco an offer sheet that they don't want to match.

 

If Flacco gets to a tag SOMEBODY is going to throw him an offer sheet. I'd worry about the Jets and Cowboys (especially if Dallas flames out again with Romo).

 

 

Here

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8272422b/article/new-wrinkles-to-franchise-tag-salary-cap-happened-for-reason

 

It'll be exclusive he won't get a single call.

[Rico]

Yes it does - average of top 10 players at that position. Gives them the right to match but no compensation if they choose not to match.

 

Franchise is average of the top 5 salaries - right to match, get 2 #1s if they choose not to, or they can trade the player's rights which has happened several times for less than the 2 #1 price.

 

You can't use both tags in the same year but the Ravens don't have any other pending UFAs worth tagging.

Sucko isn't worth the average $ of the Top 10 QBs either.

[NoSaint]

Sucko isn't worth the average $ of the Top 10 QBs either.

 

Doesn't matter - the drop off of losing him makes it impossible to let him walk

[DJasper Probincrux III]

And in the span of 2 posts the conflict is apprent. One person tells me that they'll give him an exlcusive franchise tag which is the most expensive tag and the next tells me he won't be tagged at all.

 

Fitz (30), Flacco (27), Sanchez (26), one of the rookies none of whom are RG3 or Luck, Alex Smith (28), maybe Tony Romo (32), possibly Phillip Rivers (30) but I seriously doubt it. That's about it for QBs you can have in 2013.

 

If the Ravens weren't coached by another Harbaugh I'd say Alex Smith could happen there. If they stick to their guns with Flacco they could go Romo

[Rico]

Doesn't matter - the drop off of losing him makes it impossible to let him walk

If he keeps having performances like the one he had last week, it'll be pretty easy. There's a good reason why Ozzie hasn't talked contract with him. Actually, I hope they do re-sign him though, I need all the ammo I can get being a Bills fan here in Baltimore. The fanbase is getting restless.

[CardinalScotts]

Dudes been living off their defense...now D not quite as good, and neither is he. Nope.

[NoSaint]

If he keeps having performances like the one he had last week, it'll be pretty easy. There's a good reason why Ozzie hasn't talked contract with him. Actually, I hope they do re-sign him though, I need all the ammo I can get being a Bills fan here in Baltimore. The fanbase is getting restless.

 

They are 9-3. With a real beat up defense.

 

As an offense they are pressing for an identity a little right now, but lets not over exaggerate the problems. There aren't guys on the street that replace him.

 

They tag him, he never plays a down at that salary, and signs a new deal by camp in the Schaub ballpark, not the Brady and Brees.

[KD in CA]

They are 9-3. With a real beat up defense.

 

As an offense they are pressing for an identity a little right now, but lets not over exaggerate the problems. There aren't guys on the street that replace him.

 

They tag him, he never plays a down at that salary, and signs a new deal by camp in the Schaub ballpark, not the Brady and Brees.

I think that's about right. I'm not a huge fan and he's obviusly not a top tier QB, but he's clearly better than Fitz-level.

 

The Ravens biggest problem (other than injuries on the D) is playcalling. Ray Rice gets 12 carries and Flacco throws 34 times in the loss to Pittsburgh. Ridiculous.

Edited December 5, 2012 by KD in CT

[Captain Hindsight]

Does he bring Ray Lewis with him?

[Rico]

Dudes been living off their defense...now D not quite as good, and neither is he. Nope.

I would have to agree with Vinny Cerrato on the Baltimore FAN today. Dude is not instinctive at all, he's not very good at making plays when things break down... also very slow with his reads. He compared him to Montana & Young who he had with the 49'ers (which was VERY unfair, I know ), but again, I just don't like statues who can't think for themselves. Also, his leadership intangibles hover just above zero, he is extremely lucky to have been drafted onto that team.

[KollegeStudnet]

why'd you leave out Fitz's playoff stats?

 

 

 

 

 

oh, that's right, I forgot

 

ha ha

[Rico]

They are 9-3. With a real beat up defense.

 

As an offense they are pressing for an identity a little right now, but lets not over exaggerate the problems. There aren't guys on the street that replace him.

 

They tag him, he never plays a down at that salary, and signs a new deal by camp in the Schaub ballpark, not the Brady and Brees.

Rivers is not having a good year with the Chargers, but he would be a monumental upgrade for the Ravens. If they are going to drop some coin anyways, this would be a much better move IMO... great fit on that team.

[NoSaint]

Rivers is not having a good year with the Chargers, but he would be a monumental upgrade for the Ravens. If they are going to drop some coin anyways, this would be a much better move IMO... great fit on that team.

 

And how do you propose that all goes down? Cut? Trade? Tags? New contracts? Etc.... Lots of moving pieces.

 

I'm saying highly unlikely and if your complaining about flaccos play this year, you haven't watched rivers much.

 

Though I will say this board has little grasp on either players ability in general. Both get an amazing number of spastic all over the place opinions.

Edited December 5, 2012 by NoSaint

[Garion]

.

 

Though I will say this board has little grasp on either players ability in general. Both get an amazing number of spastic all over the place opinions.

 

That's true of QB play in general both by fans and pundits. Guys go from best to worst in the league in the course of a few months.

[Rico]

And how do you propose that all goes down? Cut? Trade? Tags? New contracts? Etc.... Lots of moving pieces.

 

I'm saying highly unlikely and if your complaining about flaccos play this year, you haven't watched rivers much.

 

Though I will say this board has little grasp on either players ability in general. Both get an amazing number of spastic all over the place opinions.

I see all of Sucko's games here, and some of Rivers'... and like I said, no, Rivers hasn't been good this year, but his intangibles dwarf Sucko's. IF he becomes available (which is looking more & more like a good possibility), I would sooner spend $ on him than Sucko, that's all. Ravens have had superior talent for many years but only one ring to show for it. If/once it becomes apparent that Sucko is not going to be the one to get the job done, I can't see Ozzie dragging it out any longer.

 

ETA. Cam Cameron has coached them both, & there's no doubt in my mind who he would rather have at QB.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Rico

[3rdand12]

yes. I am interested in your fellow Joe. very,

I have cash.

Ralph.

Edited December 5, 2012 by 3rdand12

[DJasper Probincrux III]

FWIW - I don't see any way that Rivers comes free. Norv Turner is going to get fired and I'd be hard pressed to see a new HC who wouldn't want to start out with Phillip Rivers at QB.

 

Furthermore, and this is just my extremely unlearned opinion, I think Rivers has lost his fastball a bit. His delivery has always been that of a pusher which puts a lot more stress on the shoulder and elbow. I realize his motion was much more exaggered but I picture Bernie Kosar who at one time had a great arm then just hit a wall right around 30 and was tossing lead balloons around after that.

 

It's been said 1,000 times and often ignored by the brass but a QB in Buffalo needs to have a plus arm and throw a tight spiral.

 

It's also a little funny to hear people take down Flacco because he doesn't seem as good when he's not riding his defense and running game but giving a pass to Rivers for stinking up the world when he doesn't have a HoF running back, HoF tight end, and Pro Bowl wide receivers to work with anymore. It's a rare QB who can turn lemons into lemonade and none of those guys are available this year - or really any year. You get lucky with a draft pick - that's the only way.

[NoSaint]

 

 

That's true of QB play in general both by fans and pundits. Guys go from best to worst in the league in the course of a few months.

 

I'm talking if we did a poll you'd see a lot put each in the top and bottom 10 right now.

[auburnbillsbacker]

He will be a Raven next year.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

What about Sanchez? Will he also be on the trading block? And may come much cheaper? Baltimore is happy with Flacco, maybe not thrilled but content to keep him. I think the Jet's may have to move Sanchez as relationship is sooo strained at this point, so if forced to make move $$ comes down.

 

For those who want to get rid of CG, bringing in a new QB would likely assure that happens at least by the following year as with CG's offense being rather complex, likely a new QB will struggle learning. Say what you want about Fitz, arm strength is weak, but I think he's one of the exceptions in that he's capable of understanding it. That may be why CG is so in love with Fitz as he's the first QB he's ever had that actually understands it, (just not the arm to go with it) So a new QB will likely struggle, team regresses and if CG does survive this off-season, if the team gets worse, he'll be gone by the following year.

[dave mcbride]

Highly unlikely that Joe Sucko gets a franchise tag, as there is no way in hell Ozzie Newsome pays him the average of the top-5 QBs. Just say NO to any more statues, even if they are only semi-brain dead like Joe.

 

Rico - you're better than this. The man has had the terrible luck of perfect passes dropped twice to end the Ravens last two playoff runs - Houshmenzedah in 2010 and Evans last year. The guy did everything possible to win the AFC championship last year and Evans dropped an easy, perfect pass that would have won the game.

 

Again, you're better than this.

Edited December 5, 2012 by dave mcbride

[Fixxxer]

Highly unlikely that Joe Sucko gets a franchise tag, as there is no way in hell Ozzie Newsome pays him the average of the top-5 QBs. Just say NO to any more statues, even if they are only semi-brain dead like Joe.

 

Yes, I don't see Ozzie paying straight up elite money, he will make an offer but Flacco's ego ("I'm elite QB" yeah right) will not take it.

 

This guy play is so uninspired and quite frankly easy to defend, he is either bombs away or dump it off with nothing in between.

[Rico]

Rico - you're better than this. The man has had the terrible luck of perfect passes dropped twice to end the Ravens last two playoff runs - Houshmenzedah in 2010 and Evans last year. The guy did everything possible to win the AFC championship last year and Evans dropped an easy, perfect pass that would have won the game.

 

Again, you're better than this.

I will give him some credit for playing better than expected against the Pats last year.... but he was staked a 21-7 halftime lead in 2010 against the Steelers & folded in the 2nd half. I find him to be very Bledsoe-ish... or Drew-ish if you will... and that, I can just not abide.

 

Yes, I don't see Ozzie paying straight up elite money, he will make an offer but Flacco's ego ("I'm elite QB" yeah right) will not take it.

 

This guy play is so uninspired and quite frankly easy to defend, he is either bombs away or dump it off with nothing in between.

Indeed. He does throw a very nice deep ball, & he is very durable, I'll give him that... but that's all he brings to the table.

[aristocrat]

Keep waiting for this guy to take that next step but it never seems to come. I don't know if its him or Cameron.

[billnutinphoenix]

I wouldn't mind Joe

[Buftex]

Keep in mind, Rico has never met a QB he thinks is any good!

 

Agree with KC, Cameron looks to call a pretty bad game, from what I see of the Ravens.

[billsfan89]

As an outright free agent yes I would consider him a viable option. But to give up a pick for him plus a huge deal I say pass. I would look into drafting a QB or Matt Flynn in Seattle. Flynn has 2 years at 9 million per, he didn't play himself out of a job in Seattle Wilson just took the job from him.

 

Giving up a mid rounder for Flynn would be better than giving up a pick in the first two rounds for Flacco.

[Rico]

Keep in mind, Rico has never met a QB he thinks is any good!

 

Agree with KC, Cameron looks to call a pretty bad game, from what I see of the Ravens.

I will NOT apologize for having high standards.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Joe Flacco is on the last year of his deal and an extension has not yet been signed with Baltimore. His agent has already been cited as saying that they are looking for top-tier QB money (think Brady money) http://nesn.com/2012...om-brady-money/ Baltimore obviously disagrees or this deal would be done already. Flacco's play of late can't be helping matters either.

 

Clearly Baltimore won't let him walk for nothing but it's likely he'll end up Franchise tagged at the end of the year which would put him on a 1 year deal at about 14.5 million. I don't see Flacco signing that deal and he'll hold out for more money and more years with a nice payday up front. Assuming that the Ravens don't win the Super Bowl, it's reasonable to think that Baltimore will continue to balk at that and will listen to trade offers.

 

Here are Flacco's 3 year stats compared with Fitzpatrick

 

Flacco

2010 - 62.6% 25TDs 10INT Rating 93.6 QBR 60.4

2011 - 57.6% 20TDs 12INT Rating 80.9 QBR 59.7

2012 - 59.2% 15TDs 8INT Rating 85.0 QBR 50.8

 

Fitzpatrick

2010 - 57.8% 23TDs 15INT Rating 81.8 QBR 48.4

2011 - 62.0% 24TDs 23INT Rating 79.1 QBR 50.5

2012 - 61.1% 20TDs 12INT Rating 85.1 QBR 47.2

 

According to the stats Flacco and Fitzpatrick are having very similar years this year. Flacco's past was much better and Fitzpatrick's was about the same. Flacco is 27 years old, Fitzpatrick is 30.

 

Flacco has had 9 4th quarter comebacks and 14 game winning drives in his career, he's won 5 playoff games (understood that's a team stat), and played very well the last 2 playoff seasons and was a Lee Evans drop from the Super Bowl (on an excellent pass following a last minute drive)

 

Fitzpatrick has 5 4th quarter comebacks and 7 game winning drives.

 

Flacco's stats are not up to snuff with the Mannings and Brady's of the world - statistically he trails Tony Romo as well. Baltimore could easily part ways with him if he doesn't lower his asking price, which I don't think he will. Flacco has a history of acting on his own principles. He originally attended Pitt as a recruit of Walt Harris but trasnferred to 1-AA Delaware when he was stuck behind Tyler Palko. Apparently Matt Cavanagh made that call but he came with Wannstedt when Harris left so you could blame Wannstedt if you wish. He felt undervalued by Pitt and he left. I could see the same thing happening with Baltimore.

 

Is Flacco worth the 2 #1s to sign outright? If not what IS he worth to you, both in trade and in dollars?

 

I like the guy, I think he brings a lot of what we need to the table and is a much safer bet than ANY of the rookie QBs available this year.

 

He's better than Fitz but wouldn't get us to the top either so not worth the investment.

[C.Biscuit97]

Keep waiting for this guy to take that next step but it never seems to come. I don't know if its him or Cameron.

 

Yup. Great size and arm but more often than not, he is along for the ride. You could do a lot worse than Flacco but I feel you can do better. I don't ever see him being an elite QB.