Disclaimer: Unconfirmed New Owner?

[CBD]

They are an AHL team right now.

I know it's a Bills board but, they've gotten their asses handed to them the past two nights with TJ Brennan as the only player that wasn't on their opening day roster. It's way more than just injuries right now, they flat out suck.

[PromoTheRobot]

I understand that Ralph wants to own the team until he is gone. Why wouldn't he consider selling a reasonable stake in the organization to outsiders and give them full control. At the end of the day, he may want to have a SB ring and he could still do it by being part owner..

Probably because he'd have to open his books. For all we know Ralph had used the team as a piggy bank, not kosher under current NFL rules. But it's not like he's the only owner who did that. Do the words "Sullivan" and Jackson Victory Tour" ring a bell?

 

PTR

[The Senator]

What, no scathing rebukes of the OP yet?

It's a crock of sh_t.

[thebug]

It's a crock of sh_t.

 

 

It is a crock. I heard Mike Leach is buying the team so he can be the head coach of a NFL team. Not confirmed, just what I heard.

[All_Pro_Bills]

As stated many many times before. There is no deal in place to do anything at the time of RW's death. It is all about estate taxes. His family is not rich enough to pay for the tax at the time of his death so it must be sold. He can not control who the team is sold to. He can not at the time of his death put any stipulations on the sale.

Keep dreaming...

There won't be estate taxes at the time of death since ownership of the team would transfer to his wife. But as I understand the situation, Mrs. Wilson has no interest in managing or owning the team after Ralph passes.

 

If Mr. WIlson's will transfers ownership to another family member or to a non-family member then that might be another story but I am not a tax accountant or estate attorney so I don't have a lot of insight into how that would be handled.

[BillsfaninFl]

I have to admit that I am suspicious of any rumor that conveniently links Pegula and Kelly as part of a group to buy the Bills. Many here have wished for Pegula because he is willing to spend money on players. Kelly keeps implying that he is alligned with a group interested in buying the Bills. We all would love to see this become a reality.

 

But the naysayers have multiple good points. Wilson has no reason to disclose all of his plans. The NFL is very picky about who they will allow into their club (and for years they have implied that there will never be another Green Bay (community) ownership. The league ownersahip has evolved into a pool of sharks (think about the most recent new owners) who are all about maximizing incoming revenue. They consider western New York as a poor source compared to other areas where corporate bucks are in abundance and populations are rising. All these and more are factors working against what we wish will happen.

 

But as a wise man said, "It ain't over 'til it's over." I'll continue to hope for the best results.

[PromoTheRobot]

I have to admit that I am suspicious of any rumor that conveniently links Pegula and Kelly as part of a group to buy the Bills. Many here have wished for Pegula because he is willing to spend money on players. Kelly keeps implying that he is alligned with a group interested in buying the Bills. We all would love to see this become a reality.

 

But the naysayers have multiple good points. Wilson has no reason to disclose all of his plans. The NFL is very picky about who they will allow into their club (and for years they have implied that there will never be another Green Bay (community) ownership. The league ownersahip has evolved into a pool of sharks (think about the most recent new owners) who are all about maximizing incoming revenue. They consider western New York as a poor source compared to other areas where corporate bucks are in abundance and populations are rising. All these and more are factors working against what we wish will happen.

 

But as a wise man said, "It ain't over 'til it's over." I'll continue to hope for the best results.

That's where Toronto comes in. The NFL likes the idea of Toronto money. I know we hate it but we need them to be viable in the eyes of the NFL.

 

PTR

[zazie]

How can you credibly say Wilson has made no moves to keep the team in Buffalo?

 

In an era where NFL franchises regularly run roughshod over municipalities, Ralph has never (over the last 30 years) asked for a new stadium, only targeted upgrades. If he's not committed to keeping the team in Bflo, why would he continue to take a "reasonable" approach to keeping upgrade costs modest? Why not ask for the moon knowing full well that Buffalo/NYS couldn't meet his demands, thereby giving himself or even the next owner a built-in excuse to leave?

 

Why has Ralph been the one to state he wants lease re-negotiations to move forward? Don't you find it odd that he's the one pushing this issue?

 

Why, when holding all the cards in lease renegotiations, has Ralph stated (reportedly) he is agreeable to a clause allowing for the Bills to repay the County if they break the lease? This intentionally positions Buffalo as the default location for the next owner. Why would Ralph intentionally create this hurdle for the next owner - is that a smart move ahead of a planned sale of your primary asset?

 

Sure the unknown is maddening for all of us, but just because Ralph hasn't put all his cards on the table doesn't mean he isn't making moves to keep Buffalo viable as the home of the Bills far into the future. I think Ralph's actions all line up to position Buffalo as well as possible for the next owner.

Your niavete is indeed refreshing!

[mattsox]

I never post rumors but the credibility of the source is impeccable. I live near Boca Raton and provide estate services to very wealthy clients in Palm Beach county.

 

I was told that Terry Pegula is part of a prospective ownership group that includes Jim Kelly, and that group is a near lock to purchase the Bills once Ralph passes.

 

 

Yes, it is a virtual rumor, but like I mentioned above, the source is major player and I don't think I was being lied to.

 

Orly? Maybe the Sabres can trade for Fitz? LOL

[mob16151]

It is a crock. I heard Mike Leach is buying the team so he can be the head coach of a NFL team. Not confirmed, just what I heard.

 

Going the Chanticleer route huh?

[Matt in KC]

only thing im gonna say is that if in fact you were an estate services provider for some of the ultra rich players in this situation, why would you risk your livelihood, which i imagine and possibly incorrectly assume, is a nice one, over something that could very easily get back to your employer and/or clients, which ill also and possibly incorrectly assume, is an exclusive group, to post something here that we'll find out when if what you say should happen, happens...

He just said he provides "estate services." Perhaps his team cuts the grass and installs sprinkler systems....

[PromoTheRobot]

There won't be estate taxes at the time of death since ownership of the team would transfer to his wife. But as I understand the situation, Mrs. Wilson has no interest in managing or owning the team after Ralph passes.

 

If Mr. WIlson's will transfers ownership to another family member or to a non-family member then that might be another story but I am not a tax accountant or estate attorney so I don't have a lot of insight into how that would be handled.

If the team is left to anyone besides Mary Wilson there is a substantial inheritance tax. Do you know why the Robbie family no longer owns the Dolphins? A $350M tax bill is why. The same reason why Mark Davis, Al's kid, will sell 35% of the Raiders.

 

PTR

[thewildrabbit]

I understand that Ralph wants to own the team until he is gone. Why wouldn't he consider selling a reasonable stake in the organization to outsiders and give them full control. At the end of the day, he may want to have a SB ring and he could still do it by being part owner..

My take is this owner is set in his ways, and it looks like he wants to be the only owner of the Buffalo Bills. So...

[It's in My Blood]

He just said he provides "estate services." Perhaps his team cuts the grass and installs sprinkler systems....

 

I never said what I was told was nothing more than a rumor. In fact, I even said it was! The only reason I posted what I did was because of who told me and his status. This could take years to develop and as one poster pointed out, who knows how long Ralph will continue to live.

 

So yea, as another poster stated, "its a crock of s****", at least at this point.

 

In response to Matt in KC's snide comment about my job, yes, irrigation and landscape is one aspect of what we provide.

Edited January 20, 2012 by It's in My Blood

[dpberr]

I've never bought the idea that there's no plan in place when Ralph Wilson passes away. On the contrary, I think there's been a plan in place for some time with an "equitable" owner of sorts.

 

For now, so long as he's alive, there is plenty of financial benefit to keeping that agreement and parties confidential. If any of that got some sun, it'd be absolute chaos for Wilson and the prospetive owners and a massive risk to the investment. Sure, there is the fanbase, but you have a lot of corporate relationships that go smoother when there's a lot of stability. You don't want your corporate sponsors or the NFL getting nervous.

 

You'd have the scrutiny of the NFL, IRS and not to mention other groups and persons trying to sneak in and outmaneuver you. You keep any arrangement air tight until it's done.

[Doc]

Your niavete is indeed refreshing!

You make a convincing case, zazie.

[Mr. WEO]

How can you credibly say Wilson has made no moves to keep the team in Buffalo?

 

In an era where NFL franchises regularly run roughshod over municipalities, Ralph has never (over the last 30 years) asked for a new stadium, only targeted upgrades. If he's not committed to keeping the team in Bflo, why would he continue to take a "reasonable" approach to keeping upgrade costs modest? Why not ask for the moon knowing full well that Buffalo/NYS couldn't meet his demands, thereby giving himself or even the next owner a built-in excuse to leave?

 

Why has Ralph been the one to state he wants lease re-negotiations to move forward? Don't you find it odd that he's the one pushing this issue?

 

Why, when holding all the cards in lease renegotiations, has Ralph stated (reportedly) he is agreeable to a clause allowing for the Bills to repay the County if they break the lease? This intentionally positions Buffalo as the default location for the next owner. Why would Ralph intentionally create this hurdle for the next owner - is that a smart move ahead of a planned sale of your primary asset?

 

Sure the unknown is maddening for all of us, but just because Ralph hasn't put all his cards on the table doesn't mean he isn't making moves to keep Buffalo viable as the home of the Bills far into the future. I think Ralph's actions all line up to position Buffalo as well as possible for the next owner.

Why? Why? Why?

 

Easy:money--lots of it. The Bills are a maintenence free source of massive income for Wilson. This has been true for many years. Almost all of his costs of doing business are covered by shared league revenues. The rest is gravy. WHy pay the expense of movign and risk ending up in a town like JAx?

 

And Ralph might agree to a lease that will charge the team if it breaks the lease? Actually, he would have no choice but to sign such a lease--it would be included in any lease anywhere he went. The county would not present him with a lease without that clause--the "hurdle" wold come from the county.

 

I think Pegula has been mentioned in the past as a potential owner and Kelly (although it's not clear he has 100K in the bank) has been interjecting himself into the ownership talk for a few years.

[CodeMonkey]

Its funny how these threads pop up every now and then. With nothing more tangible than "someone who is in the know" speculating about [insert billionaires name here] plan to buy the Bills. I suppose if people guess enough, someone will eventually be right. But what's the point of speculation other than killing time during another Bills-free post season?

Edited January 20, 2012 by CodeMonkey

[dancing_joker]

If the team is left to anyone besides Mary Wilson there is a substantial inheritance tax. Do you know why the Robbie family no longer owns the Dolphins? A $350M tax bill is why. The same reason why Mark Davis, Al's kid, will sell 35% of the Raiders.

 

PTR

 

Yeah, I'll be sure to feel REALLY sorry for anyone that has to pay 35 or even a 50% tax on inheriting $700 million dollars. Boo hoo.

[BuffaloWest]

Pegula would be just the kind of owner we've always wanted. But seriously, the Sabres are showing that just spending money gets you squat. In fact I can't recall ever seeing the Sabres in worse shape, though it's not for Pegula trying to do the right thing. Totally bizarre.

 

PTR

 

I think this would be the best case scenario. A guy like Terry can buy The Bills for a Billion, Build a stadium downtown for a billion, and still have a billion left over. Why not? The teams will always generate revenue and increase in value. Why sit on a couple of billion when you could do something great and be a hero to millions of Western New Yorkers....Fingers crossed.

 

Regarding Sabres...I doubt he'll sit back and continue to let this thing flounder. He tried to do the right thing by keeping some continuity...but it aint working...This franchise needs to be reinvented. Some pieces are there, but these guys need to go....

 

* Roy

* Hecht

* Gaustadt

* Boyes

* Kaleta

* Ellis

* Lindy Ruff

* Darcy Regier

* I know Pominville and Vanek are goal scorers, but they should be trade bait. They are both soft and part of the "regime/core" which just hasnt succeeded.

* Id say Miller too, but Enroth is too risky as our top goalie at this time

[Best Player Available]

If the team is left to anyone besides Mary Wilson there is a substantial inheritance tax. Do you know why the Robbie family no longer owns the Dolphins? A $350M tax bill is why. The same reason why Mark Davis, Al's kid, will sell 35% of the Raiders.

 

PTR

Al Davis did not own 100% of the Raiders. There are minority owners! As for Mark, maybe he just doesn't give a crap and wants some cash to play with.

Why do you promote rumor mongering?

[Matt in KC]

I never said what I was told was nothing more than a rumor. In fact, I even said it was! The only reason I posted what I did was because of who told me and his status. This could take years to develop and as one poster pointed out, who knows how long Ralph will continue to live.

 

So yea, as another poster stated, "its a crock of s****", at least at this point.

 

In response to Matt in KC's snide comment about my job, yes, irrigation and landscape is one aspect of what we provide.

Hey, thanks for sharing. I didn't mean to come off as insulting in any way. I was just answering Kenny's questions about why you'd risk your lucrative estate planning business, pointing out you may have many clients, not a few large famous clients as Kenny (and others perhaps) assumed.

 

I have no problems with rumors so long as they carry the necessary and appropriate disclaimers, which yours did.

[richNjoisy]

True, but this team is basically the same team that went on a tear last season to make the playoffs. So I can't understand how wrong things are now. I mean they are the worst team in the NHL. They probably couldn't beat an AHL team right now. There is some serious mind-fukkery in action there.

 

PTR

 

 

As to the main thread - Thanks for the solid rumor - with so much bad news lately it is great to hear some good news. as to the Sabres, I agree totally PTR - this is the WORST I have ever seen the Sabres. They can't score, they can't kill penalties, their goalies are bad, they don't hit, and they all stand around a lot. Time to fire a lot of people

[apuszczalowski]

Atleast the Bills will have a much nicer locker room.................

[purple haze]

 

 

That said, all my teams are sucking hard right now (Bills, Sabres, Celtics) so I am willing and wanting to believe this rumor. I have a different source that hasn't gone as far as the OP, but has assured me that Jim Kelly's bluster about "the Bills aren't moving" over the last few years, has some teeth. Kelly is more involved in the future of the Bills than we have been officially informed. Obviously, Kelly doesn't have the money to buy the Bills, even at a discount rate, but he knows somebody who does. Pegula makes a so much sense.

 

I hope you're right. And on a side note, The C's?? Man, they are in trouble for years going forward. Rondo, Bradley and what else?

[Fan in San Diego]

I understand that Ralph wants to own the team until he is gone. Why wouldn't he consider selling a reasonable stake in the organization to outsiders and give them full control. At the end of the day, he may want to have a SB ring and he could still do it by being part owner..

 

Good point. It would also give the Bills some cash to signup some big time players.

[mrags]

Just because were on the subject I thought it would give me a chance to bring it up. I really have no idea if this is even possible but hear me out and then maybe someone with knowledge of the subject can call me an idiot or say Im a genius. Ralph wants the team until he dies, Kelly wants the Team, Ralphs family doesn't want the team, the expenses or hassles with being team owners. Kelly just happens to have a not-for-profit fund raiser with Hunters Hope. What are the possibilities of Ralph leaving the team for a non-profit? Is it possible? Would it dismiss the estate tax issue since it's for a not for profit? If so, what's the thoughts against Ralph leaving the Bills to the Hunter Hope foundation/Kelly in his will with the stipulation that Ralphs family recieves some kind of financial return either up front or over time? Like I said, just a thought that's been swirling around my head for a bit. Didn't want to just start a thread with it because I know how much we all love "When Ralph Passes" threads. Tell me what you think and if anyone has factual knowledge that is or is not possible of course your insight is welcomed.

 

Thanks

[Buftex]

I hope you're right. And on a side note, The C's?? Man, they are in trouble for years going forward. Rondo, Bradley and what else?

 

Ainge has publically acknowledged that Garnett, Allen and Pierce are up for grabs. I think any of them could help a team out, although KG is definitley looking the nearest to the end of his career. I do think, if they didn't have this condensed schedule, they might be doing a little better, but they are still not a contender for the finals. And, to be fair, beyond the "big 4" there are mostly new pieces who had no real training camp. Ugly season...

[Ray]

It is somewhat refreshing to hear "good news" if this is indeed true. With nothing positive going on in Buffalo sports recently this would be refreshing news. Keep in mind people that Jim Kelly has nowhere close to the kind of money it takes to own an NFL team. Michael Jordan doesn't have that kind of cash. Pegula would make sense as maybe the major investor with some others putting in a few hundred million dollars as well. Just keep in mind that someone buying the Bills is doing it because they love the Bills and NOT to make a profit as they are not going to make much of a profit at all.

But this does/would bring up all types of great side stories. Who is involved? When would transition take place? Same stadium? New stadium to Buffalo or NF? We can all dream and hope but the Bills will stay in Buffalo...I am confident of that.

[Lv-Bills]

Pegula would be just the kind of owner we've always wanted. But seriously, the Sabres are showing that just spending money gets you squat. In fact I can't recall ever seeing the Sabres in worse shape, though it's not for Pegula trying to do the right thing. Totally bizarre.

 

PTR

No offense, but you keep beating this drum over and over and over. I'm not a Sabres fan, and can see things somewhat objectively. Pegula did indeed spend money, that is true. To most people or fans outside of Buffalo, you were still looked at as a somewhat average, punchless, offensive hockey team. Not only have the Sabres been offensively challenged on an elite scale for a while, the guys available to Pegula through Free Agency simply weren't that good either.

 

I also think I've heard you guys say that your defense (maybe I'm wrong) has been brutal. But really, who cares. You really need some offensive weapons. Some big time weapons. My opinion.

 

He spent some money. But it wasn't a Daniel Snyder kind of spend. There just wasn't any top tier help out there. There will be, but it will take time. All of the superstars were locked up.

 

The Sabres will be fine once some good players become available.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Lv-Bills

[zazie]

Just because were on the subject I thought it would give me a chance to bring it up. I really have no idea if this is even possible but hear me out and then maybe someone with knowledge of the subject can call me an idiot or say Im a genius. Ralph wants the team until he dies, Kelly wants the Team, Ralphs family doesn't want the team, the expenses or hassles with being team owners. Kelly just happens to have a not-for-profit fund raiser with Hunters Hope. What are the possibilities of Ralph leaving the team for a non-profit? Is it possible? Would it dismiss the estate tax issue since it's for a not for profit? If so, what's the thoughts against Ralph leaving the Bills to the Hunter Hope foundation/Kelly in his will with the stipulation that Ralphs family recieves some kind of financial return either up front or over time? Like I said, just a thought that's been swirling around my head for a bit. Didn't want to just start a thread with it because I know how much we all love "When Ralph Passes" threads. Tell me what you think and if anyone has factual knowledge that is or is not possible of course your insight is welcomed.

 

Thanks

It is indeed a nice idea but the notion that the other owners would wold accept Hunters Hope to own the Bills seems farfetched.

 

And anyway Kelly seems like a good intentioned guy who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Buftex]

I think this would be the best case scenario. A guy like Terry can buy The Bills for a Billion, Build a stadium downtown for a billion, and still have a billion left over. Why not? The teams will always generate revenue and increase in value. Why sit on a couple of billion when you could do something great and be a hero to millions of Western New Yorkers....Fingers crossed.

 

Regarding Sabres...I doubt he'll sit back and continue to let this thing flounder. He tried to do the right thing by keeping some continuity...but it aint working...This franchise needs to be reinvented. Some pieces are there, but these guys need to go....

 

* Roy

* Hecht

* Gaustadt

* Boyes

* Kaleta

* Ellis

* Lindy Ruff

* Darcy Regier

* I know Pominville and Vanek are goal scorers, but they should be trade bait. They are both soft and part of the "regime/core" which just hasnt succeeded.

* Id say Miller too, but Enroth is too risky as our top goalie at this time

 

I would say that Miller is too risky as our top goaltender at this time. He has been on the decline for at least two seasons now. Enroth has had some bad nights, but I feel a lot better with him between the pipes this season. Also, Vanek is the only guy I would make an untouchable. I am not positive, but I think he an Lindy have never gotten on real well, but Vanek brings it, more often than not, on most nights. His overall game has improved dramatically. Not sure how Stafford missed your list.. the thing is, all of these guys have talent, and have shown glimmerings. Are any of them good enough to bring back anything than more of the same, in return.

 

This may sound crazy, but I would be shopping Miller and Myer. I don't think Miller is going to get better, at this point, in Buffalo, and I have my doubts that Myers is ever going to be the dominant guy his size suggests he should be. Miller is a huge name, and Myers has huge upside...you gotta give something to get something. Enroth, IMO, is no worse than (I think better) Miller, and it would be easier to replace the skill set that Myers represents, than it would be filling the hole that losing Vanek would leave.

[spartacus]

I never post rumors but the credibility of the source is impeccable. I live near Boca Raton and provide estate services to very wealthy clients in Palm Beach county.

 

I was told that Terry Pegula is part of a prospective ownership group that includes Jim Kelly, and that group is a near lock to purchase the Bills once Ralph passes.

 

 

Yes, it is a virtual rumor, but like I mentioned above, the source is major player and I don't think I was being lied to.

 

did Donald Trump tell you he was runnning for president as well?

Edited January 21, 2012 by spartacus

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Just because were on the subject I thought it would give me a chance to bring it up. I really have no idea if this is even possible but hear me out and then maybe someone with knowledge of the subject can call me an idiot or say Im a genius. Ralph wants the team until he dies, Kelly wants the Team, Ralphs family doesn't want the team, the expenses or hassles with being team owners. Kelly just happens to have a not-for-profit fund raiser with Hunters Hope. What are the possibilities of Ralph leaving the team for a non-profit? Is it possible? . . .

Thanks

It makes you neither a genius nor an idiot, but unless there have been amendments to the 2006 version of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws (or future amendments), it's not possible. Here's what the 2006 version of that document says about membership in the League:

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf [at page 5/292]

 

Eligibility of New Members

 

3.2 Any person, association, partnership, corporation, or other entity of good repute organized for the purpose of operating a professional football club shall be eligible for membership, except:

 

(A) No corporation, association, partnership, or other entity not operated for profit nor any charitable organization or entity not presently a member of the League shall be eligible for membership.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Agreed but still scared. I wish there was something a little more concrete. Maybe a 50 year lease with a Claus about only no ing the stadium within the county also something about a league collaps( wh knows in 50 years).

Like Santa Claus?

 

Funny Fruedian slip… even misspelled AND capitalized!

 

Good for a smile at the end of a long week.

 

 

[mrags]

It makes you neither a genius nor an idiot, but unless there have been amendments to the 2006 version of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws (or future amendments), it's not possible. Here's what the 2006 version of that document says about membership in the League:

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf [at page 5/292]

Thank you. That's the kind of legwork I was looking for. I'm lazy today, driving into work 4 hours away from home for the next 4 days, and on my cell phone so I couldn't look that kind of stuff up. Nor would have even known where to look. If it can't be done, it can't be done. I was just thinking about it in some form or another.

[mob16151]

It makes you neither a genius nor an idiot, but unless there have been amendments to the 2006 version of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws (or future amendments), it's not possible. Here's what the 2006 version of that document says about membership in the League:

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf [at page 5/292]

 

You can always go the Stan Kroenke route

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke

[ryan42790]

This might actually be true, I have a contact who is very close to Jim Kelly (I wont say who) were Jim said it was a done deal, Ralph approves, Roger Goddell approved, the paperwork has already been signed, its plan to take place 3 days after Ralph dies. Jim would be the face of the organization backed by financial backers (he didn't mention anything about Terry Pegula though)

[billsfan in n.h]

It's not a story without a confirmed Death!

show me the body, i mean baby

[Astrobot]

only thing im gonna say is that if in fact you were an estate services provider for some of the ultra rich players in this situation, why would you risk your livelihood, which i imagine and possibly incorrectly assume, is a nice one, over something that could very easily get back to your employer and/or clients, which ill also and possibly incorrectly assume, is an exclusive group, to post something here that we'll find out when if what you say should happen, happens...

I've never read a sentence with 7 commas in it. You're a lawyer, aren't you?