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“The people making the rules at the NFL are idiots”


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“I’m absolutely sure now after this last rule change that the people making the rules at the NFL are idiots,” James Harrison wrote on Twitter Tuesday night.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/25/james-harrison-the-people-making-the-rules-at-the-nfl-are-idiots/

 

 

i have to disagree with James......i think putting a clamp on so called

"defenseless" hits, leading with your helmet and hits to opposing players heads are a good thing. players leaving the field via stretcher is a bad thing......these defensive guys can bring a player to the ground WITHOUT those career ending hits. i love those bone jarring hits as much as the next guy....but some player safety needs to trump fan amusement.

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Then Harrison is free to quit/retire.

 

It took him almost 10 years to develop into a good player, and his trademark is dirty/dangerous hitting. He's just scared that if they take away the one thing he does (cheap-shotting people with his helmet), he'll just be a crappy player like he was when he was bouncing around the Euro League.

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Many players use their helmet as a weapon to deliver a bigger blow and and I'm not just talking about helmet to helmet hits, which have been the focus of much of scrutiny. Players lower their heads and hit with the crown of the helmet rather than leading with the shoulder, or putting your facemask in the guys chest and wrapping them up. They do it to hurt the opponent.

 

Channing Crowder: "They give me a helmet, I'm gonna use it."

 

Translation: I use my helmet as a tool or weapon to hurt people.

 

Mike Sims: "For one, it's contradicting the game of football. Football is a smash-mouth sport. Guys are taught since we started the game, 'Hit 'em in the mouth' or 'Put a helmet on 'em.'"

 

Translation: We are taught to lead with the helmet and hit under the ball carriers facemask, and aim for the exposed chin. This will almost always result in a knockout shot. We are taught to use our helmets to deliver bigger hits.

 

Changing rules to prevent players from using their helmet as a weapon is not undermining the integrity of the game, no matter what Harrison and Co. would have you believe. Leading with the crown puts not only the ball carrier but also the tackler in a very dangerous position. When a tackler lowers their head into a ball carriers chest, at impact their neck can move 2 ways: back where they're likely safe, or down which can easily lead to a broken neck and spinal cord damage. Unfortunately, it will probably take another paralysis to really change attitudes about leading with the top of your head.

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I love the hypocrisy from the players on this one...they refuse an 18 game schedule saying the owners don't care about their safety but when rules are instituted to keep players safe they say "I'm a football player, don't tell me how to play football"...morons.

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“I’m absolutely sure now after this last rule change that the people making the rules at the NFL are idiots,” James Harrison wrote on Twitter Tuesday night.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/25/james-harrison-the-people-making-the-rules-at-the-nfl-are-idiots/

 

 

i have to disagree with James......i think putting a clamp on so called

"defenseless" hits, leading with your helmet and hits to opposing players heads are a good thing. players leaving the field via stretcher is a bad thing......these defensive guys can bring a player to the ground WITHOUT those career ending hits. i love those bone jarring hits as much as the next guy....but some player safety needs to trump fan amusement.

 

If player safety needs to trump fan amusement, when is the NFL going to start fining ESPN for focusing on such as highlights?

 

Harrison's right, the rules committee is a bunch of idiots. Just not for the reasons he thinks.

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I love the hypocrisy from the players on this one...they refuse an 18 game schedule saying the owners don't care about their safety but when rules are instituted to keep players safe they say "I'm a football player, don't tell me how to play football"...morons.

+1. Well said.

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The league has bent over backwards in the past 10 years giving a very distinct advantage to offenses and offensive skill players.

 

Which is one of the reasons why I haven't been overly enthusiastic about Nix making such an investment on the defense. There's only so much they can do without getting penalized up the yin-yang for touching a QB, breathing on a WR, and now, where exactly they put their hands on tackles and who exactly they can hit on INT/KO/Punt returns. They're facing a stacked deck.

 

Should've done more to upgrade our O to keep pace.

 

At this pace, the NFL is going to essentially be flag football inside of 15 years.

Edited by UConn James
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The league has bent over backwards in the past 10 years giving a very distinct advantage to offenses and offensive skill players.

Lesson learned by the NFL from post-strike MLB.

 

 

Which is one of the reasons why I haven't been overly enthusiastic about Nix making such an investment on the defense. There's only so much they can do without getting penalized up the yin-yang for touching a QB, breathing on a WR, and now, where exactly they put their hands on tackles and who exactly they can hit on INT/KO/Punt returns. They're facing a stacked deck.

 

Should've done more to upgrade our O to keep pace.

 

At this pace, the NFL is going to essentially be flag football inside of 15 years.

You still need to field a defense. If you can't tackle a RB before he gains six yards every carry, you better have the 1984 49ers on the offensive side of the ball.

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The league has bent over backwards in the past 10 years giving a very distinct advantage to offenses and offensive skill players.

 

Which is one of the reasons why I haven't been overly enthusiastic about Nix making such an investment on the defense. There's only so much they can do without getting penalized up the yin-yang for touching a QB, breathing on a WR, and now, where exactly they put their hands on tackles and who exactly they can hit on INT/KO/Punt returns. They're facing a stacked deck.

 

Should've done more to upgrade our O to keep pace.

 

At this pace, the NFL is going to essentially be flag football inside of 15 years.

 

 

But dude you dont understand. Fitz took our 30th ranked scoring offense and leapfrogged up to 28th in scoring. I mean we scored one more point a game last year than we did the year before!!!! one whole point!!!

 

If we continued to upgrade our offense in such a drastic fashion who will stop the run on our 32nd ranked defense????????????????

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Lesson learned by the NFL from post-strike MLB.

 

You still need to field a defense. If you can't tackle a RB before he gains six yards every carry, you better have the 1984 49ers on the offensive side of the ball.

 

1) The Arena League has tons of scoring. Really doesn't make it more entertaining. In fact, iirc, they went out of business a couple of years ago.

 

That and a lot of yardage in the NFL is determined by flags, not actual plays. It's just cheapened the game, IMO.

 

2) Yep, but it's going to be a defense that will be giving up big plays every drive by either penalties or having to pussyfoot / play on their heels more.

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The league has bent over backwards in the past 10 years giving a very distinct advantage to offenses and offensive skill players.

 

Which is one of the reasons why I haven't been overly enthusiastic about Nix making such an investment on the defense. There's only so much they can do without getting penalized up the yin-yang for touching a QB, breathing on a WR, and now, where exactly they put their hands on tackles and who exactly they can hit on INT/KO/Punt returns. They're facing a stacked deck.

 

Should've done more to upgrade our O to keep pace.

 

At this pace, the NFL is going to essentially be flag football inside of 15 years.

 

So by not endorsing a culture where players unwittingly try to end opponents careers and scramble each others brains, the league is reducing the NFL to flag football?

 

You can still maintain jarring hits without helmet to helmet contact and cheap shots. If Harrison lowers the shoulder on Cribbs or Massaquoi, its still going to be a devastating hit, it still makes the highlight reel, it still excites the players and fans, but it most likely doesn't end either players season. The fact is players are using their helmets to hurt each other. Head injuries and shortened careers due to concussions hurt the quality of the game and threaten the longevity of the sport. Those types of hits were ignored in the past only because we had no idea about the long term consequences. Professor Harrison eloquently stated the old way of thinking below:

 

" he was just sleeping. He wasn't really hurt. I made him go to sleep. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK. I'm going for the knockouts."

 

Perfect, except he's not OK, he is hurt and the effects of the dirty hit can last a lifetime. Now that the long term effects of "putting people to sleep" have been fully documented, it would be grossly negligent and criminally irresponsible to ignore the issue even if ignorant fans and players disagree.

 

Leading with the crown of the helmet, whether to the ball carriers' head or body, was never in the spirit of the game and should be completely removed from football at all levels. Until the players start leading with their shoulders and keeping their eyes on the target rather than lowering their head I fully support penalties, fines and suspensions. How this is even a debate is beyond all comprehension.

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So by not endorsing a culture where players unwittingly try to end opponents careers and scramble each others brains, the league is reducing the NFL to flag football?

 

You can still maintain jarring hits without helmet to helmet contact and cheap shots. If Harrison lowers the shoulder on Cribbs or Massaquoi, its still going to be a devastating hit, it still makes the highlight reel, it still excites the players and fans, but it most likely doesn't end either players season. The fact is players are using their helmets to hurt each other. Head injuries and shortened careers due to concussions hurt the quality of the game and threaten the longevity of the sport. Those types of hits were ignored in the past only because we had no idea about the long term consequences. Professor Harrison eloquently stated the old way of thinking below:

 

" he was just sleeping. He wasn't really hurt. I made him go to sleep. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK. I'm going for the knockouts."

 

Perfect, except he's not OK, he is hurt and the effects of the dirty hit can last a lifetime. Now that the long term effects of "putting people to sleep" have been fully documented, it would be grossly negligent and criminally irresponsible to ignore the issue even if ignorant fans and players disagree.

 

Leading with the crown of the helmet, whether to the ball carriers' head or body, was never in the spirit of the game and should be completely removed from football at all levels. Until the players start leading with their shoulders and keeping their eyes on the target rather than lowering their head I fully support penalties, fines and suspensions. How this is even a debate is beyond all comprehension.

 

 

Agree with your entire post, but ESPECIALLY the bold. Took the words right from my... keyboard.

 

You can still have big hits with proper technique.

Edited by DrDareustein
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This is a tough one, I love the "bone crunching" hits...But I hate to see guys like Austin Collie have their careers possibly ended by concussions...Intentional head shots and helmet to helmet hits should definitely be banned, and those are really the hits that do the damage. They have to work on better helmets, at least for the "risk positions", as well (WR, RB, QB).

 

However rules alone can only do such much in a contact sport like football, if they go too far it could really change the game in a negative way. I will be disappointed if hard hitting in general gets removed from the game.

 

I think the QB protection rules go to far, and really take away from the game...Helmet to helmet shots are dangerous, and I agree with the rule. But it's almost illegal to even tackle the QB now. If your glove so much as grazes the helmet of a QB it's a 15 yard penalty. I think it needs to be enforced to protect the player, but the "phantom" penalties need to go.

Edited by Turbosrrgood
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Harrison continues to be an idiot. Every player should be happy that the league (doing the union's job) is trying to eradicate catastrophic hits.

 

I grew up watching an NFL with great defense and great defensive players… none of whom felt compelled to spear defenseless players with their helmets.

 

I also don't watch the NHL for the fights or NASCAR for the crashes. I did not enjoy when Donte Whitner almost decapitated Chad Johnson.

 

NFL football will continue to be a hard-hitting, bone-crushing, violently entertaining sport without the gratuitous violence.

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Harrison continues to be an idiot. Every player should be happy that the league (doing the union's job) is trying to eradicate catastrophic hits.

 

I grew up watching an NFL with great defense and great defensive players… none of whom felt compelled to spear defenseless players with their helmets.

 

I also don't watch the NHL for the fights or NASCAR for the crashes. I did not enjoy when Donte Whitner almost decapitated Chad Johnson.

 

NFL football will continue to be a hard-hitting, bone-crushing, violently entertaining sport without the gratuitous violence.

 

Are you trying to say that watching players get dealt concussions and suffer brain trauma does not heighten your footbal viewing experience? Knowing that the big hit you just saw is going to contribute to a life after football characterized by fear, depression and paranoia, doesn't get your blood flowing? This is a tough sport played by tough men, and brain damage and dying young are an integral part of the game. Where is your sense of blood lust SJBF? I thought you were a real fan?

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So by not endorsing a culture where players unwittingly try to end opponents careers and scramble each others brains, the league is reducing the NFL to flag football?

 

You can still maintain jarring hits without helmet to helmet contact and cheap shots. If Harrison lowers the shoulder on Cribbs or Massaquoi, its still going to be a devastating hit, it still makes the highlight reel, it still excites the players and fans, but it most likely doesn't end either players season. The fact is players are using their helmets to hurt each other. Head injuries and shortened careers due to concussions hurt the quality of the game and threaten the longevity of the sport. Those types of hits were ignored in the past only because we had no idea about the long term consequences. Professor Harrison eloquently stated the old way of thinking below:

 

" he was just sleeping. He wasn't really hurt. I made him go to sleep. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK. I'm going for the knockouts."

 

Perfect, except he's not OK, he is hurt and the effects of the dirty hit can last a lifetime. Now that the long term effects of "putting people to sleep" have been fully documented, it would be grossly negligent and criminally irresponsible to ignore the issue even if ignorant fans and players disagree.

 

Leading with the crown of the helmet, whether to the ball carriers' head or body, was never in the spirit of the game and should be completely removed from football at all levels. Until the players start leading with their shoulders and keeping their eyes on the target rather than lowering their head I fully support penalties, fines and suspensions. How this is even a debate is beyond all comprehension.

I agree with this. Also, I don't see much evidence that the league is headed to "flag football". Watch enough games and you will see plenty of great defenses still punishing runners, QBs and KRs.

 

Harrison speaks for many of his colleagues. It puts their resistence to the 18 game schedule in it's proper perspective--it's about money, not safety.

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I agree with this. Also, I don't see much evidence that the league is headed to "flag football". Watch enough games and you will see plenty of great defenses still punishing runners, QBs and KRs.

 

Harrison speaks for many of his colleagues. It puts their resistence to the 18 game schedule in it's proper perspective--it's about money, not safety.

 

True but the players also wanted items to protect their health too. Its not purely money but of course they want to be compensated for more work, who doesnt???? For example the players wanted a second bye week and more recovery time.

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True but the players also wanted items to protect their health too. Its not purely money but of course they want to be compensated for more work, who doesnt???? For example the players wanted a second bye week and more recovery time.

If players wanted to protect themselves, they wouldn't take anabolic steroids, nor would they chose helmets withthe worst protection rating over those with the best. They would all be publicly denouncing guys like Harrison.

 

It's about money. Nothing wrong with that, but they should just be more honest about it. I'm betting that most working fans with real jobs don't really care what happens to these guys after they stop playing.

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1) The Arena League has tons of scoring. Really doesn't make it more entertaining. In fact, iirc, they went out of business a couple of years ago.

 

That and a lot of yardage in the NFL is determined by flags, not actual plays. It's just cheapened the game, IMO.

 

2) Yep, but it's going to be a defense that will be giving up big plays every drive by either penalties or having to pussyfoot / play on their heels more.

 

Nope, you don't recall correctly.

 

http://www.arenafootball.com/

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Iv'e always been a big fan of taking out an ankle. Not pretty or a monster hit. Effective. Brady gone for the last three quarters would break my heart. And it's only a 15 yard penalty and no fine. Sounds like a plan.

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If players wanted to protect themselves, they wouldn't take anabolic steroids, nor would they chose helmets withthe worst protection rating over those with the best. They would all be publicly denouncing guys like Harrison.

 

It's about money. Nothing wrong with that, but they should just be more honest about it. I'm betting that most working fans with real jobs don't really care what happens to these guys after they stop playing.

 

WEO, you mentioned the 18 game season and i was commenting on that. The examples you cite have nothing to do with that. Anabolics help you perform better and recover quicker over a grueling season. They also have serious long term risks with abuse.

Helmets are for performance too.

 

To say the 18 game season is only about money for the players is wrong, and oversimplifies the situation.

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Warren Sapp chimes in...

 

...and that's what this is all about - taking care of the game, taking care of each other. And if James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley don't see this, then maybe they need to leave the game.

 

I never thought Sapp's hit on Clifton was that "cheap". Especially since it was a DL on an OL. Im sure Sapp was out to lay a big hit on a blind player, but I dont think he meant to injure him.

 

Harrison and Woodley really sound like idiots here because they don't seem to understand the simple change the league is trying to make. No one is saying they cant hit hard. Only that they cant use their helmet as a weapon. That has always been illegal in some form (Spearing).

 

If Harrison doesnt want to tackle properly (and he probably cant as proven by the years it took him to develop), then he should retire for real this time. Bye. Wont miss you.

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Count me among the idiots.When I watch a Bills game of course I want to see a hard fought game but If you take out the stars what is left.

Beating NE wouldn't mean anyrthing if Brady didn't play.It would be like you beating your little brother.What would be the point?

If you are a fan you want to see the big name players,thats why you pay for those tickets to sit in a winter storm.

Also if you are an owner and you arwe paying your big name guys 10--------- million dollars a year,you don't want them on crutches.

How3 would you feel if you were the owner?

We don't need cheap shots we need for the big names to play .

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You still need to field a defense. If you can't tackle a RB before he gains six yards every carry, you better have the 1984 49ers on the offensive side of the ball.

BTW- The '84 49ers had the #1 scoring defense in the NFL that year.

 

No matter how good your offense is, you don't win without defense.

Edited by vincec
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WEO, you mentioned the 18 game season and i was commenting on that. The examples you cite have nothing to do with that. Anabolics help you perform better and recover quicker over a grueling season. They also have serious long term risks with abuse.

Helmets are for performance too.

 

To say the 18 game season is only about money for the players is wrong, and oversimplifies the situation.

I think it's important to draw a distinction between what the players feel and what the players' union has advocated.

 

In terms of the latter, I think it really is just about the money. While the union will sometimes complain about other things--such as head injuries, the 18 game season, and so on--the solution always seems to be, "Pay us more to compensate us for this."

 

But just because the union is just about the money doesn't negate legitimate concerns individual players may have over safety issues. If I was a player, I wouldn't want the season expanded to 18 games either. That's just the owners trying to milk the fans for more money, and in my opinion would be bad for the NFL.

 

Similarly, the subject of steroids does not (in my opinion) reveal any player hypocrisy. Imagine that you're the 100th best football player in the NFL; and are paid accordingly. (Let's say $7 million a year.) Then suddenly everyone else starts doing steroids. You don't do steroids. So now instead of being the 100th best player, you're maybe trying to hold onto some roster spot for the league minimum. It's human nature to want to get back up to that $7 million a year, even at the risk of long-term health complications. The same logic also applies--possibly even more strongly--for a player who's struggling to make the final roster cut. The solution is frequent testing for steroid use, and harsh penalties for those who are caught. A league in which no one uses steroids is significantly better than one in which everyone uses them!

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I think it's important to draw a distinction between what the players feel and what the players' union has advocated.

 

In terms of the latter, I think it really is just about the money. While the union will sometimes complain about other things--such as head injuries, the 18 game season, and so on--the solution always seems to be, "Pay us more to compensate us for this."

 

But just because the union is just about the money doesn't negate legitimate concerns individual players may have over safety issues. If I was a player, I wouldn't want the season expanded to 18 games either. That's just the owners trying to milk the fans for more money, and in my opinion would be bad for the NFL.

 

Similarly, the subject of steroids does not (in my opinion) reveal any player hypocrisy. Imagine that you're the 100th best football player in the NFL; and are paid accordingly. (Let's say $7 million a year.) Then suddenly everyone else starts doing steroids. You don't do steroids. So now instead of being the 100th best player, you're maybe trying to hold onto some roster spot for the league minimum. It's human nature to want to get back up to that $7 million a year, even at the risk of long-term health complications. The same logic also applies--possibly even more strongly--for a player who's struggling to make the final roster cut. The solution is frequent testing for steroid use, and harsh penalties for those who are caught. A league in which no one uses steroids is significantly better than one in which everyone uses them!

 

 

The union has asked for other things besides more money if going to an 18 game season. It is about the money, BUT its about other things too.

 

I can understand people calling players greedy, but how greedy is it to ask to be compensated for extra work?

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This is a tough one, I love the "bone crunching" hits...But I hate to see guys like Austin Collie have their careers possibly ended by concussions...Intentional head shots and helmet to helmet hits should definitely be banned, and those are really the hits that do the damage. They have to work on better helmets, at least for the "risk positions", as well (WR, RB, QB).

 

However rules alone can only do such much in a contact sport like football, if they go too far it could really change the game in a negative way. I will be disappointed if hard hitting in general gets removed from the game.

 

I think the QB protection rules go to far, and really take away from the game...Helmet to helmet shots are dangerous, and I agree with the rule. But it's almost illegal to even tackle the QB now. If your glove so much as grazes the helmet of a QB it's a 15 yard penalty. I think it needs to be enforced to protect the player, but the "phantom" penalties need to go.

 

It's an evolution and it's hard to believe the coaches on the rules committee want to ruin the game. For instance, the graze the helmet issue was addressed in these rule changes as well. It just seems most fans, and a lot of players dont get or want to get what's going on here.

 

You can still make crushing hits, even with your helmet as long as the player your hitting isn't in a totally exposed position.

Edited by NoSaint
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The real issue is that with the brain injury studies being done the NFL is legally on notice that it must do all that it can to protect the players. The lawsuits that will spring up once the studies are fully validated will put the NFL at risk. Kind of like the Catholic Church and the kiddie abuse, once the problem was known they must do all that they can to prevent it because the resulting lawsuits. The lawsuits could put a serious crimp in the NFL's future earnings. It is bad enough that there are serious spinal injuries but someone will be killed on the field if this goes unchecked and when that happens watch how fast the lawsuit is filed. That people are committing suicide later in life is tragic and I am sure some smart lawyer will put together a pretty strong case and slam it to the owners.

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The real issue is that with the brain injury studies being done the NFL is legally on notice that it must do all that it can to protect the players. The lawsuits that will spring up once the studies are fully validated will put the NFL at risk. Kind of like the Catholic Church and the kiddie abuse, once the problem was known they must do all that they can to prevent it because the resulting lawsuits. The lawsuits could put a serious crimp in the NFL's future earnings. It is bad enough that there are serious spinal injuries but someone will be killed on the field if this goes unchecked and when that happens watch how fast the lawsuit is filed. That people are committing suicide later in life is tragic and I am sure some smart lawyer will put together a pretty strong case and slam it to the owners.

There is no connection.

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That people are committing suicide later in life is tragic and I am sure some smart lawyer will put together a pretty strong case and slam it to the owners.

 

There is no connection.

I think the suicide thing, that is, Chronic Traumatic Encelopathy, are part and parcel with the whole head injury and concussion issue. I don't think there's any separating the two.

 

I agree with Jumbalaya that the league is instituting these rules changes in order to limit future liability as much as possible.

 

On a related point, the fact that the league is moving the safety issue along and the fact that the players union couldn't care less about safety is going to be helpful to the league when the players try filing lawsuits against the league in the years to come. JMO.

 

 

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I understand the concern for player safety, but I just think the NFL is going the wrong route.

I don't care about players losing paychecks. But personally, I'm sick of watching "illegal hits" lead to game changing drives. Especially when the refs get it wrong half the time.

 

Football is a fast moving contact sport. Defenders are supposed to make hits, tackle and jar the ball loose. These kind of hits are going to happen all the time and it's almost impossible for refs to tell the difference. Most of the time, the refs end up penalizing 15 yards for guys leading with a shoulder pad (not a helmet).

 

Besides, illegal hits are almost impossible for a defender to avoid. I would bet that most of us played football in high school or college. Think about it:

 

- If a defender tries to tackle the ballcarrier in a completely upright position, they will be unable to wrap up, so most of the time they will MISS the tackle. Proper technique teaches you have to go a little bit lower (aim for the midsection) to wrap a ballcarrier up.

- When aiming for the midsection of a ballcarrier, a defender has no choice but to lower his head. This is common sense.

- In most cases, a proper tackle is going to lead to a defender's helmet in the chest of the ballcarrier. But there is almost no room for error. Contact is a little bit high, you get helmet-to-helmet or blow to the head. Bend over too much, you get a leading with the crown of the helmet penalty.

- The defender also only plays a small part in this equation. He has no control on where the ballcarrier will be when contact is made. He could be aiming for the guy's chest. But if the ballcarrier drops at the last second, you've got an illegal hit.

 

It's just crap.

 

They should be spending their time focusing on improving the equipment.

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Agree with your entire post, but ESPECIALLY the bold. Took the words right from my... keyboard.

 

You can still have big hits with proper technique.

 

Whether you hit with great technique, helmet to helmet collisions are going to happen. It's unavoidable. It's a part of the game, and if they're complaining that defenders are using helmets as a weapon, then take away their helmets.

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