Maybin ??

[iinii]

Chan was interviewed by NFL network after senior bowl practice and Mayock asked him if the light has come on for Maybin and said he still waiting and that he needs to learn to play the run and has only one pass rush move and that is speed. Don't know why after two years a guy can't work on his game and figure out what he needs to do to get better. Last chance for Maybe.

Maybin is a chump.

[Green Lightning]

Just cut him and let him focus on his rap career.

 

PS don’t draft Von Miller.

 

No to the first point, give him one more TC. YES to the second point....we don't need another Maybin.

[JohnC]

If it's not too much trouble, can I get sources and/or links to substantiate the following statements in bold? I may be wrong but I'm not aware of the Bills (or any team for that matter) releasing information of this sort to the public.

 

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating? There is plenty of commentary indicating that other scouts and teams had a much lower rating of Maybin. Russ Lande a former NFL scout who still is involved in draft scouting services said on WGR55 something to the effect that based on what he reviewed on his college tapes that the Maybin pick was absurd.

 

The bottom line is it doesn't really matter who flubbed the pick. It is still an organizational failure which has plagued the Bills for a very long time. The Maybin pick undertandably gets a lot of attention. There are so many other glaringly bad picks at very high draft locations. Whitner, McCargo, Hardy, McKelvin, Mike Williams, LB Paul P, etc. The bottom line is that from a draft standpoint the body of work is very mediocre. What makes the situation more aggravating is that teams such as the Steelers and Ravens draft after us and select better players at a cheaper cost.

 

There is a reason why the Bills have had only one winning record (9-7) over the past decade and have not participated in the playoffs during that period: They draft poorly.

Edited January 27, 2011 by JohnC

[dpberr]

Maybin does not have football smarts or intuition for the game, and that can't be taught.

 

No team is going to be able to turn the lights on.

 

For the hell of it however, I would have spent this offseason trying to see if he could be a TE.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating?

Jauron had the final vote, but the war room was run by consensus at the time. There can really be little doubt that Modrak, who it is confirmed sets the draft board, must have placed Aaron Maybin in the group of top 1st round talent on that board.

 

Suggesting that in such a consensus-driven process, Jauron simply went off and used his own draft board that nobody else in the room knew anything about is a laughably weak cover-up attempt.

[NoSaint]

Someone pointed out on here, or in an article that if we followed the Kiper's of the world we could have Ngata, Revis and Orakpo. Three of the younger and premier players at their position. Instead we have Whitner, McKelvin, and Maybin. Ouch.

 

In some way I hope Maybin has an amazing camp/offseason and the switch goes on, but I more likely see a cut.

 

Atleast our drafts the last 2 years other than Maybin have had quality players. I do think/hope Spiller will breakout some this year and I liked what I saw from Troup, Carrington, and Moats, especially Carrington and Moats. Add in some of the undrafteds and quality was added to the team.

 

Let's be honest - if we had ngata (by proxy someone other then mccargo- I won't even argue mangold), and revis.... Odds are we wouldn't have had a shot at orakpo. Odds are we'd be drafting late enough that maybin might have seemed like a reasonable pick!

 

Jauron had the final vote, but the war room was run by consensus at the time. There can really be little doubt that Modrak, who it is confirmed sets the draft board, must have placed Aaron Maybin in the group of top 1st round talent on that board.

 

Suggesting that in such a consensus-driven process, Jauron simply went off and used his own draft board that nobody else in the room knew anything about is a laughably weak cover-up attempt.

 

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

[Sisyphean Bills]

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

I'd still fault Modrak heavily for putting him in the top 20 group. In hindsight, it is crystal clear Maybin shouldn't have been in the top 200, let alone the top 20.

 

Modrak works for the team and collects a paycheck, no? He supposed to be an expert talent evaluator, no? So, why load the board up with dicey or flat-out bad picks, wash your hands of it, and let a room with the proven evaluation skills of Ralph, Dick Jauron, and Russ Brandon sort the wheat from the chaff in a pressurized decision making environment?

 

There were plenty of reasons NOT to choose Maybin. Just watch the tape of him in the Rose Bowl.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

It's very rare to ever hear a coach talk about a player o ntheir own team in such harsh words. Based on comments like that I'm guessing he will be cut this spring, but no sense cutting him today as it serves no useful purpose to the Bills. Not even sure if you could cut a player right now

[JohnC]

Let's be honest - if we had ngata (by proxy someone other then mccargo- I won't even argue mangold), and revis.... Odds are we wouldn't have had a shot at orakpo. Odds are we'd be drafting late enough that maybin might have seemed like a reasonable pick!

 

 

 

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

 

How many "what ifs" are you going to come up with for a DECADE of bad drafts- the same period of time when Modrak headed the college scouting department. Not addressing the scouting department as an obvious source of the team's problems on the field qualifies as ownership malpractice. The owner has no difficulty firing Bill Polian and John Butler/A.J. Smith, but for some odd reason he has a soft spot for the person heading one of the worst scouting departments in the league. How much sense does that make?

 

Every team makes mistakes with their picks, even their high picks. It is a very challenging task. But after a decade of drafting futility that results with the current team being little better than an expansion team, what does the goofy owner do? He continues on with the status quo operation. That type of oddball decison-making certainly reflects the caliber of ownership and the dysfunctional nature of the organization he has assembled.

Edited January 27, 2011 by JohnC

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Maybin does not have football smarts or intuition for the game, and that can't be taught.

 

No team is going to be able to turn the lights on.

 

For the hell of it however, I would have spent this offseason trying to see if he could be a TE.

 

So a guy who "does not have football smarts or intuition for the game" you want to ask him to learn the entire rout tree of the TE position and all the other wide outs for an entire playbook, and ask him to learn how to read defenses? I think you're really on to something. After all its just for the hell of it.

[NoSaint]

I'd still fault Modrak heavily for putting him in the top 20 group. In hindsight, it is crystal clear Maybin shouldn't have been in the top 200, let alone the top 20.

 

Modrak works for the team and collects a paycheck, no? He supposed to be an expert talent evaluator, no? So, why load the board up with dicey or flat-out bad picks, wash your hands of it, and let a room with the proven evaluation skills of Ralph, Dick Jauron, and Russ Brandon sort the wheat from the chaff in a pressurized decision making environment?

 

There were plenty of reasons NOT to choose Maybin. Just watch the tape of him in the Rose Bowl.

 

 

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step as one of your main criteria for rating the position of DE is not absurd. we truly have no idea what values he was pressed to use in his ratings. when drafting for a scheme, and not for raw talent, all kinds of issues pop up.

 

my point wasnt that maybin was a good pick, but that we dont know what was behind the scenes.

 

its funny how as the later rounds roll around we seemed to get great value out of picks that likely didnt have a lot of interest from ralph and what id assume to be nearly as much film study etc... done by dick. logic says in the 7th you are at most a hc is saying get me the best corner or get me the best wr -- more likely just asking who is your BPA here unless they have ties to the player ala cj ah you or that rb ralph really wanted in the fourth that one year - dont remember his name off hand. wright?

 

 

suddenly we start hitting on guys like KW while his first round counterpart that likely had many more voices involved flopped. hitting on steve johnson when likewise his early second round counterpart flopped. even guys like peters, fred jackson, greer, and i know ill get killed but for a 6th, ellison was more then you would expect from his draft slot. dont just take a tackle at 4 because you need one -- id like to see who his bpa would have been at the mike williams pick. do you think that it was his call to trade up for losman? or did someone panic about getting a qb in the first round or else. do you think he made the choice of whitner over ngata? because it sounded like dick was DETERMINED to get his bob sanders to run that defense.

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

i suppose i am playing devils advocate to those hanging it all on him, and saying its likely somewhere in the middle. if you assume some of our flops were overdrafted by others, and dropped them down a handful of slots, i dont think anyone would complain with his rankings based on what we knew about these guys before the draft.

Edited January 27, 2011 by NoSaint

[JohnC]

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step

 

The problem isn't his fast fist step. It is his second and third step when the OT or OG consistently knocks him down on his skinny rear end.

 

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

Have you ever considered that it is the owner who wants to keep him on the payroll? It doesn't matter what others think, if you please the owner and the boss you have solidified your hold on the job, regardless of your record for the past decade.

[Sisyphean Bills]

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step as one of your main criteria for rating the position of DE is not absurd. we truly have no idea what values he was pressed to use in his ratings. when drafting for a scheme, and not for raw talent, all kinds of issues pop up.

 

my point wasnt that maybin was a good pick, but that we dont know what was behind the scenes.

 

its funny how as the later rounds roll around we seemed to get great value out of picks that likely didnt have a lot of interest from ralph and what id assume to be nearly as much film study etc... done by dick. logic says in the 7th you are at most a hc is saying get me the best corner or get me the best wr -- more likely just asking who is your BPA here unless they have ties to the player ala cj ah you or that rb ralph really wanted in the fourth that one year - dont remember his name off hand. wright?

 

 

suddenly we start hitting on guys like KW while his first round counterpart that likely had many more voices involved flopped. hitting on steve johnson when likewise his early second round counterpart flopped. even guys like peters, fred jackson, greer, and i know ill get killed but for a 6th, ellison was more then you would expect from his draft slot. dont just take a tackle at 4 because you need one -- id like to see who his bpa would have been at the mike williams pick. do you think that it was his call to trade up for losman? or did someone panic about getting a qb in the first round or else. do you think he made the choice of whitner over ngata? because it sounded like dick was DETERMINED to get his bob sanders to run that defense.

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

i suppose i am playing devils advocate to those hanging it all on him, and saying its likely somewhere in the middle. if you assume some of our flops were overdrafted by others, and dropped them down a handful of slots, i dont think anyone would complain with his rankings based on what we knew about these guys before the draft.

Actually, I think the consensus choice was a terrible way to run a war room. It eliminates players based on passion and leaves you picking the kid that nobody has a strong opinion on. This may come as a shock to some, but even Bruce Smith was not perfect coming out of college. If the war room was run by consensus, the Bills would've passed on him because one of the numb nuts would've been chirping about how Smith was too small and overweight.

 

I don't give Modrak or the scouting a pass because some late rounders have gotten playing time. I've said it numerous times before, somebody must play. It only underscores just how bad they are that they have to use 5th and 7th round stop gaps to plug holes in the dike because none of their top picks can play.

[NoSaint]

The problem isn't his fast fist step. It is his second and third step when the OT or OG consistently knocks him down on his skinny rear end.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever considered that it is the owner who wants to keep him on the payroll? It doesn't matter what others think, if you please the owner and the boss you have solidified your hold on the job, regardless of your record for the past decade.

 

 

its very possible its all ralph. but on that token, couldnt the picks just as easily be all ralph?

 

 

 

i think no matter what, its obvious there was and still may be an organizational issue. whether or not that has changed, we can only hope yes.

 

 

whether we went bpa with spiller, or were strong armed into him is a question we may never know. on every ranking he was a top ten player though, which is something we cant say about the spot we took donte, or mccargo, or maybin, or marshawn, or.... even into the second round trading up for poz instead of waiting for either him or harris, taking hardy cause he was tall.... when we very much draft for scheme and need we have failed miserably. i do not think those players were a failure of rankings, but a failure of how we have tried to build this team - create a hole and fill it with whoever happens to be there in round 1 or 2. if huff fell, i have to believe we wouldve taken him over donte. we just had to have to best safety on the board there for some reason.

 

if you told modrak i want the fastest first step, and he said, well heres maybin, hes fast, but hes only had one, albeit good year, and he will get knocked around if he doesnt put on weight.... that wouldnt be a failure on modrak. we really just dont know whats going on, and consensus can do weird things to a room. likewise a poorly educated dictator can be a dangerous drafter.

 

just as those picks are a very good reason to doubt him, there are reasons that you can put that doubt on the system just as easily.

 

all we can do is hope to identify the real issue.

 

Actually, I think the consensus choice was a terrible way to run a war room. It eliminates players based on passion and leaves you picking the kid that nobody has a strong opinion on. This may come as a shock to some, but even Bruce Smith was not perfect coming out of college. If the war room was run by consensus, the Bills would've passed on him because one of the numb nuts would've been chirping about how Smith was too small and overweight.

 

I don't give Modrak or the scouting a pass because some late rounders have gotten playing time. I've said it numerous times before, somebody must play. It only underscores just how bad they are that they have to use 5th and 7th round stop gaps to plug holes in the dike because none of their top picks can play.

 

i agree that straight consensus is awful.. if that was whats going on, i cant put it on modrak though, he built the draft board, not the organizational structure.

 

 

other then the example of ellison, im not sure which late rounder that was playing just because we had no one else you are talking about. i listed greer, jackson, peters, steve johnson, and kyle williams. i included with ellison a disclaimer that i didnt think he was all that good but when you look at 6th round picks, hes generally better then his 6th round peers (cue the brady references). I dont think he belonged as a starter but as a sixth arent you looking for reliable depth? based on the system we had, i would have been fine with ellison being a guy coming off the bench.

Edited January 27, 2011 by NoSaint

[Sisyphean Bills]

other then the example of ellison, im not sure which late rounder that was playing just because we had no one else you are talking about. i listed greer, jackson, peters, steve johnson, and kyle williams. i included with ellison a disclaimer that i didnt think he was all that good but when you look at 6th round picks, hes generally better then his 6th round peers (cue the brady references). I dont think he belonged as a starter but as a sixth arent you looking for reliable depth? based on the system we had, i would have been fine with ellison being a guy coming off the bench.

Not too complicated.

 

Drafted Spiller, they play Fred Jackson.

Drafted Aaron Maybin, they play anyone else.

Drafted McKelvin, they play other corners.

Drafted James Hardy, they cut him and play Johnson and Nelson and ...

Drafted Chris Ellis, they cut him and play anyone else.

Drafted Marshawn Lynch, they play Fred Jackson and dumped him for a 4th rounder.

Drafted Trent Edwards, they cut him and play a journeyman.

Drafted John McCargo, they play anybody else.

Drafted Ashton Youboty, no impact.

Drafted Roscoe Parrish, ... he returns punts, but now we got Spiller.

Drafted JP Losman...

 

When you draft bust after bust after bust, you have to play somebody. That doesn't mean they hit a gold mine. I may cheer for Stevie Johnson, for example, but I'd be kidding myself if I said there weren't real flaws in his game.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Let's compare Modrak's record in Buffalo to the Steelers from 2002-2008 (we fall back 3 years to get a more accurate assessment of long-term impact of picks). Let's break the draft into 3 brackets: rounds 1-3, rounds 4-5, rounds 6-7 for convenience. Now let's list the "productive" players in those brackets, I'll cross out names that the Bills have given up on (i.e., stop gap fillers). (I did this very quickly, so I may have missed some players.)

 

Modrak Bills:

1-3: Josh Reed, Kelsay, Evans, Whitner, Lynch, Pos, Edwards, McKelvin

4-5: McGee

6-7: Ellison, Bell, Johnson

 

Steelers:

1-3: Simmons, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Starks, Miller, McFadden, Holmes, Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall

4-5: Foote, Taylor, Colon, Sepulveda

6-7: Kemoeatu

 

So, we see that the Steelers also get some players in the late rounds, but they hit on so many players early that most of their late rounders cannot crack the lineup.

[CardinalScotts]

again we missed the most important numbers about maybin 2 and 1 his age 21. He's been a diappointment to say the least but way to young to cut him

[JohnC]

its very possible its all ralph. but on that token, couldnt the picks just as easily be all ralph?

 

Highly unlikely. Ralph likes to play with his toy franchise. Meddling with the first pick is probable. Getting involved with the later picks simply takes too much energy for the tired owner.

 

 

 

i think no matter what, its obvious there was and still may be an organizational issue. whether or not that has changed, we can only hope yes.

 

The problem with the franchise has little to do with the team, and everything to do with the organization that the zany owner constructed. With Ralph, the franchise is first and foremost a business venture and profit center. Until he leaves the scene the architecture and caliber of staffing of this organization will not meaningfully change.

 

whether we went bpa with spiller, or were strong armed into him is a question we may never know. on every ranking he was a top ten player though, which is something we cant say about the spot we took donte, or mccargo, or maybin, or marshawn, or.... even into the second round trading up for poz instead of waiting for either him or harris, taking hardy cause he was tall.... when we very much draft for scheme and need we have failed miserably. i do not think those players were a failure of rankings, but a failure of how we have tried to build this team - create a hole and fill it with whoever happens to be there in round 1 or 2. if huff fell, i have to believe we wouldve taken him over donte. we just had to have to best safety on the board there for some reason.

 

With respect to Spiller I have little problem with his selection. He was rated as a top ten talent and he demonstrated in college that he was a playmaker. That is something the team sorely lacked. If you expect me to be critical of this organization for drafting on the basis of taking the best player available (especially considering their drafting history) then you are mistaken. It is still too early to conclusively judge that pick. In my mind, there was sound reasoning for taking him, with his talent level being the most persuasive reason. There are not many players on this roster to be excited about. He is one of them.

 

 

 

if you told modrak i want the fastest first step, and he said, well heres maybin, hes fast, but hes only had one, albeit good year, and he will get knocked around if he doesnt put on weight.... that wouldnt be a failure on modrak. we really just dont know whats going on, and consensus can do weird things to a room. likewise a poorly educated dictator can be a dangerous drafter.

 

The mistake made with Maybin and other picks such as Flowers, Hardy etc is that the focus was on particular physical attributes instead of asking the most basic question: Is the player a good football player? Issues regarding football intelligence and instincts should have been considered more when making selections.

 

just as those picks are a very good reason to doubt him, there are reasons that you can put that doubt on the system just as easily.

 

all we can do is hope to identify the real issue.

 

 

 

i agree that straight consensus is awful.. if that was whats going on, i cant put it on modrak though, he built the draft board, not the organizational structure.

 

The organizational structure is a creation of the owner. It works for him. Maybe not on the field but certainly on his ledger books. The owner had people such as Polian and Butler/A.J.Smith working for him who knew how to build a successful franchise. He drove them out. The owner had other priorities. So they were dispatched.

[Gabe Northern]

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating?

 

No.

 

Modrak leaked that he preferred Cushin with the pick.

 

This came to be understood by Modrak supporters as "Modrak didn't want to draft Maybin."

 

In reality, Jauron was simply deciding between the next 2 guys on Modrak's draft board.

[BADOLBILZ]

Does anyone know what is the real issue with Aaron Maybin is? Why he doesn't play in games, and may possibly even be cut? Like many of you I did not want to draft him, and I have watched every game he has played in as a Bill. But what is the underlying reason why? Why he has sometimes not even dressed for games? Does anyone have any insider information?

 

Is it because he is too light? Too weak? Not intelligent? Has no heart, desire, drive? Has no mean streak? Doesn't care? Unable to grasp new position? Doesn't understand scheme? Or he just can't play football or isn't a football player?

 

I am just curious to know if there is any chance for the problem to ever be corrected. Possibly with added weight, weight training, coaching, or even possibly a mentor like Merriman. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

The first time I saw Maybin in preseason I got a feeling like a kick in the gut that this guy was not going to cut it.

 

Simply put, he got smacked around as if he'd never played tackle football. You can't play in the front 7 of an NFL defense if you can't play with power. It's all relative, but there are WR's in the NFL that play with more force than Maybin. He is the opposite of country strong.

 

Forget about his average speed and lack of weight. There are plenty of good players his size and speed in front 7's around the NFL. I don't know if getting stronger in the weight room is going to help, I think it's either about a lack of natural power or a lack of "want to" on the field.

[bobbobbob]

Jauron drafted Maybin to play cornerback. It's the only explanation.

[NoSaint]

Highly unlikely. Ralph likes to play with his toy franchise. Meddling with the first pick is probable. Getting involved with the later picks simply takes too much energy for the tired owner.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with the franchise has little to do with the team, and everything to do with the organization that the zany owner constructed. With Ralph, the franchise is first and foremost a business venture and profit center. Until he leaves the scene the architecture and caliber of staffing of this organization will not meaningfully change.

 

 

 

With respect to Spiller I have little problem with his selection. He was rated as a top ten talent and he demonstrated in college that he was a playmaker. That is something the team sorely lacked. If you expect me to be critical of this organization for drafting on the basis of taking the best player available (especially considering their drafting history) then you are mistaken. It is still too early to conclusively judge that pick. In my mind, there was sound reasoning for taking him, with his talent level being the most persuasive reason. There are not many players on this roster to be excited about. He is one of them.

 

 

 

 

 

The mistake made with Maybin and other picks such as Flowers, Hardy etc is that the focus was on particular physical attributes instead of asking the most basic question: Is the player a good football player? Issues regarding football intelligence and instincts should have been considered more when making selections.

 

 

 

The organizational structure is a creation of the owner. It works for him. Maybe not on the field but certainly on his ledger books. The owner had people such as Polian and Butler/A.J.Smith working for him who knew how to build a successful franchise. He drove them out. The owner had other priorities. So they were dispatched.

 

 

Sounds like we are much on the same page. I don't think Ralph is quite as stingy as you portray but all in all I don't see how you can put it all on modrak. Seems like even great scouts could face the same challenges, how do we know we don't have them here now. I hope with the last two drafts we are seeing the changes we need. It seems we are getting more value at our picks of late.

[3rdand12]

In a recent article, and i may be off, but it seemed that Ralph was quoted "that Modrak put the players on the board, but he was not the one who had the final say" and something to the effect that they are aware of their lack of success.

probably an inaccurate quote. I feel bad for Maybin. yes i know he got paid. But did he outsmart the pundits?

No need to continue the bashing though. Maybe he really is trying as well as he is able. maybe. and then again.

[T master]

By rule, Cleveland (with Jauron as DC) should be forced to trade their 1st or 2nd round pick for Maybin!!!! Jauron picked him - he should be forced to live with him!!

 

I'll Second that !!! Amen !!!!!

 

That could also be why Nix & Gailey like guys that are seniors & have stayed in school in stead of the one year wonder types !!

Edited January 28, 2011 by T master

[JohnC]

Sounds like we are much on the same page. I don't think Ralph is quite as stingy as you portray but all in all I don't see how you can put it all on modrak. Seems like even great scouts could face the same challenges, how do we know we don't have them here now. I hope with the last two drafts we are seeing the changes we need. It seems we are getting more value at our picks of late.

 

I don't want to belabor the issue, but I apologize for doing it. I'm not putting it all the blame on draft failures on Modrak. That is a simplification that leads to a falsehood. What I do strongly believe in is accountability. There is no one who can fairly say that our scouting department has done a good job over the past decade. The lead scout is Modrak. It is mostly his responsibility to assemble a staff to help him do the most vital job in a franchise. His body of work over the past decade is very poor, especially compared to franchises such as Pitts, Ravens and Green Bay, similar sized cities and regions.

 

The problem with Ralph is that he is very stubborn and doesn't tolerate dissent very well. He is very old school. He had within his organization high caliber staff who were able to develop a quality product for him. He drove them away. A lot of the friction had to do with the constant tug of war between the football and finance staff. There is no surprise that he had a greater affinity for the finance side of the operation.

 

The most successful owners in the NFL are not the hands on owners but the owners who are smart enough to bring in the most talented football staff to run the football operation. One of the major problems with Ralph is that he is too insular. He doesn't have much comfort with outsiders and people he doesn't know. That is more of an old world approach to take, and a disasterous approach to take in a world of complexity.

 

On a positive note, I like what Nix has done in his early tenure. The most encouraging thing he did was as much symbolic as it was substative. He brought in Whaley, a much younger person, from the Steeler organization. That is the franchise the Bills should be emulating. That was a good hire. In addition, Gailey was not an inspiring hire, but he was a solid hire. Adding Dave Wannstadt to the coaching staff is another good sign. That sure is better than handing your OC job to a very inexperienced Alex van Pelt.

Edited January 28, 2011 by JohnC

[Sisyphean Bills]

I don't want to belabor the issue, but I apologize for doing it. I'm not putting it all the blame on draft failures on Modrak. That is a simplification that leads to a falsehood. What I do strongly believe in is accountability. There is no one who can fairly say that our scouting department has done a good job over the past decade. The lead scout is Modrak. It is mostly his responsibility to assemble a staff to help him do the most vital job in a franchise. His body of work over the past decade is very poor, especially compared to franchises such as Pitts, Ravens and Green Bay, similar sized cities and regions.

Agreed.

 

The problem is that the draft is the most important means for building a team and sustaining success. The Bills have butchered their drafts and it has led them to being the 3rd worst team in football this past season. If the solution is as simplistic as having Nix pull down names, then our resurgence to relevance is imminent and much rejoicing will ensue.

[JohnC]

Agreed.

 

The problem is that the draft is the most important means for building a team and sustaining success. The Bills have butchered their drafts and it has led them to being the 3rd worst team in football this past season. If the solution is as simplistic as having Nix pull down names, then our resurgence to relevance is imminent and much rejoicing will ensue.

 

Interesting article on purposeful drafting and Tom Modrak by Bob DiCeasare of the Buff News. The basic point is that there has to be a team identity and a coherent drafting policy to match that identity.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bob-dicesare/article325996.ece

[bigc14120]

He doesn't seem to be cut out to be an NFL player.

His strength, mass and smarts are not up to par.

He was drafted as an impact DE.

He's not one. He's not a decent OLB.

 

Whomever is responsible for picking him in the first round should be exiled.

I don't care if he miraculously improves and becomes a starter and a decent player in the next 2-3 years.

He was a wasted draft pick. He hasn't produced at all.

Any player picked #11 in the Draft should have a positive impact on their team.

The only impact Maybin's had is on the ledger at this bank.

Trade him to Cleveland...Dick Jauron picked him...and is now the defensive coord. at the Browns.

[3rdand12]

Interesting article on purposeful drafting and Tom Modrak by Bob DiCeasare of the Buff News. The basic point is that there has to be a team identity and a coherent drafting policy to match that identity.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bob-dicesare/article325996.ece

Thanks for the link. Its a good point.

The Buffalo bills draft has defined itself, unfortunately its not a good one for the past so many years. Lets see how troup and carrington turn out though and see if we continue with our irrational early pick this year.

[fansince88]

He has long arms, an explosive first step and excellent change-of-direction ability. Reminds me of Trent Cole of the Eagles. However, very little functional strength, poor techinque, and lack of passrushing moves have hindered him, and they suggest he is uncoachable. In any event he does not fit what Chan and Edwards are trying to do on defense, so if he ever succeeds it probably won't be here.

Then did school teach him the wrong side of the ball?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Maybin ran a slow 40 and short shuttle at the combine. He's basically a speed rusher with no speed. Should never have gotten drafted that high. No speed, and gets overpowered. Basically worthless. Immature, somebody who hit the jackpot and stopped working. Doesn't study film and parties instead. Evenings are about whores and cocaine. Will never play in another NFL game once the Bills cut him.

 

Ozymandius, any reference or linky's here? How do you know this?

[papazoid]

i have watched (isolated) Maybin on almost every single play at home games.

 

#1- Strength.....he is WEAK.....he gets physically dominated one on one by every tackle on every play.

 

#2- Cut Back Ability....he has none....he is unable to quickly stop, cut and change direction which linebackers need.

 

#3- Speed...straight ahead is decent.....but towards the end of the season, can't remember which game, he was covering kickoffs on special teams.....again i watched/isolated everything he did on those plays. he was running funny, like he had a hitch in his giddy up....or he was nursing an injury.

 

CONCLUSION ....Maybin is a BUST !!.....and in my opinion, is gonna stay a BUST......he will NEVER be a linebacker in a 3-4 and it is highly unlikely he will get strong enough to be a D-lineman in a 4-3. you need +300 lb POWER guys on the D-line. draft Fairley or Dareus with our #3 pick.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Reminds me of Trent Cole of the Eagles.

Totally different body types. They wear the same number though.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Nothing, and I mean nothing of what you just said is true! I have never heard a coach say he did not study film, I have never heard a word about excessive partying, Whores, cocaine, dude you are slandering the man. He sucks at football, because he sucks at football, saying those other things are just wrong.

 

 

Beside Lawrence Taylor has generated a lot of evidence he may have been enguaging in all those activities but he still kicked tail on the field with his speed rush...

[RuntheDamnBall]

you need +300 lb POWER guys on the D-line. draft Fairley or Dareus with our #3 pick.

No you don't. You need guys with good technique and moves, depending on your system, that can be anywhere from 280lbs+. NTs should almost without exception be 300+, but other than that, there are variables.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Beside Lawrence Taylor has generated a lot of evidence he may have been enguaging in all those activities but he still kicked tail on the field with his speed rush...

The speed rush was the first building block of LTs game. But he was not one-dimensional. Power was a huge component of LTs game, as was his array of moves.

 

There were only a few one-dimensional NFL pass rushers who were really good…guys that relied upon one single thing to be successful.

 

Derrick Thomas was one of those players. In all the years I saw him play, I don't ever remember him using an inside counter move. He could bend the edge so well that there was simply no reason to do anything else.

 

LT's game on the other hand was multi-faceted and if a blocker was overplaying the outside rush, LT would put him on his ass, push him into the quarterback, or beat him inside.

 

Back to Maybin, I hated the Maybin pick.

 

After accepting the fact that we drafted him and that it was not some bad dream, I was hoping that Maybin could be a good one-trick pony and give the Bills 10 sacks every year as a situational pass rusher. Those hopes have diminished greatly.

 

 

[Tcali]

Does anyone know what is the real issue with Aaron Maybin is? Why he doesn't play in games, and may possibly even be cut? Like many of you I did not want to draft him, and I have watched every game he has played in as a Bill. But what is the underlying reason why? Why he has sometimes not even dressed for games? Does anyone have any insider information?

 

Is it because he is too light? Too weak? Not intelligent? Has no heart, desire, drive? Has no mean streak? Doesn't care? Unable to grasp new position? Doesn't understand scheme? Or he just can't play football or isn't a football player?

 

I am just curious to know if there is any chance for the problem to ever be corrected. Possibly with added weight, weight training, coaching, or even possibly a mentor like Merriman. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

He is just a lousy football player.Nothing to do with lack of weight,waist size,braincircumference.If the problems were his lack in these areas we still would have seen flashes of potential.We saw nothing but a player who got so dominated every play it was embarrassing.You'd think he would get lucky on a play or two--like the QB accidentally running into him or the Olineman in front of him gets a massive leg cramp or pulls to block on the wrong play-something to make it look like he did something.We didn't even get that.Like someone said earlier-anyone with anything to do with that draft pick should be exiled-along with whoever extended Kelsays contract.-We can all still hope that these decision makers aren't the same ones making the decisions in this next draft.

[Bob in STL]

Let's compare Modrak's record in Buffalo to the Steelers from 2002-2008 (we fall back 3 years to get a more accurate assessment of long-term impact of picks). Let's break the draft into 3 brackets: rounds 1-3, rounds 4-5, rounds 6-7 for convenience. Now let's list the "productive" players in those brackets, I'll cross out names that the Bills have given up on (i.e., stop gap fillers). (I did this very quickly, so I may have missed some players.)

 

Modrak Bills:

1-3: Josh Reed, Kelsay, Evans, Whitner, Lynch, Pos, Edwards, McKelvin

4-5: McGee

6-7: Ellison, Bell, Johnson

 

Steelers:

1-3: Simmons, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Starks, Miller, McFadden, Holmes, Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall

4-5: Foote, Taylor, Colon, Sepulveda

6-7: Kemoeatu

 

So, we see that the Steelers also get some players in the late rounds, but they hit on so many players early that most of their late rounders cannot crack the lineup.

 

 

Nice example. Painful, but a well done simple illustration that I believe it is the core reason why we lose.

 

Not only do the Steelers draft 2X more starters in rounds 1-3 but they also find Pro Bowl impact players.

 

Explains why Nix and Whaley have to scour other teams Practice Squads to improve the talent base on our team.

 

I cannot recall another period in Bills history were we drafted so poorly than the past decade.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Bob in STL

[....lybob]

1. Maybin as a DE was about 20lbs light and that's after he bulked up 20lbs

2. Maybin was supposed to be in the 4.6s before he bulked up but at 249lbs he was in the high 4.8s at the combine

3. Maybin is thin in the legs and hips- Bruce Smith who got his weight down eventually to 255-260 still had a massive power plant at that weight- forget about bench pressing show me the guy who can push a pickup truck 15 yards the fastest.

4. Maybin built might be ok for a LB but he shows none of the the other qualities for that position- his short shuttle and three cone were average at best.

5. Maybins football (smarts, awareness,instincts) seem to be lacking

 

now in defense of Maybin, he does have good burst, he does have long arms, and he won't be 23 until April so he's the same age as most of the guys coming out in this years draft.

[yungmack]

Excellent point. Although Modrak didn't pick him he still evaluated him. He had a first round grade when more discerning scouts for other organizations had him at a lower ranking. Having Modrak continue on as the head scout doesn't make sense. A decade of drafting futility and the same person is directing the scouting department. How much sense does that make?

Not just Modrak. Pretty much every rating service had him as a first round pick.