Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Scenario's as I see them: Carolina - If Luck declares, may be too hard to pass up. However, team is run kinda like the Bills and they may not want to spend that kind of money. Also, they are way worse than us and have a ton more holes to fill. I have to think their first priority is to listen to offers. If they do stand pat, then I wonder if they don't go for the cheaper option and pass on the Luck, Bowers, and Fairly. All three of those guys play positions that ask for 70 mil. Plus, as horrible as he was to start, I hear the Clausen movement has gained some support and they may be willing to build around him. Also, as we see every year, there is always a ridiculous amount of hype in the offseason that builds up players to top 3 status that we aren't even talking about now. There is a large part of me that see's Cam Newton having a huge game that could make him the #1 overall pick over Luck. I disagree with the choice if it happens, but wouldn't be surprised. With a regime change in Carolina, there will be no reason for the new people to view any of the scraps left over as anything but replaceable fodder. Clausen sucks and it is on the coach's film. They'll have their pick of franchise QB suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Thanks. You're welcome - it's definitely counter-intuitive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You're welcome - it's definitely counter-intuitive! I didn't compute it out to the zillionths, but was going by another post. (Not always accurate... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Look at that list. For those who kept saying picking 7-9 and getting the win today is better than picking 2-4 and losing today: 1. Buffalo - Bruce Smith, DE Virginia Tech 2. Atlanta - Bill Fralic, G Pittsburgh 3. Houston - Ray Childress, DT Texas A&M 4. Minnesota - Chris Doleman, DE Pittsburgh 5. Indianapolis - Duane Bickett, OLB Southern California 6. Detroit - Lomas Brown, T Florida 7. Green Bay - Ken Ruettgers, T Southern California 8. Tampa Bay - Ron Holmes, DE Washington 9. Philadelphia - Kevin Allen, T Indiana Picks 2-4 went to 17 Pro Bowls. Picks 7-9 went to zero! nada! none! I'm assuming you're drunk. Adrian Peterson was the #7 pick and has been to 4 straight Pro Bowl, and that is just off the top of the head. The Last time the Bills Picked #3 overall it was in 1961 and they took Ken Rice. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceKe00.htm Not a stellar career, Oh no, he was from Auburn we can't take Cam Newton then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm assuming you're drunk. Adrian Peterson was the #7 pick and has been to 4 straight Pro Bowl, and that is just off the top of the head. Adrian Peterson was the #7 pick in the 1985 draft? Man, and they say Brett Favre has played a long time! Yeah, I must be drunk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Adrian Peterson was the #7 pick in the 1985 draft? Man, and they say Brett Favre has played a long time! Yeah, I must be drunk! Oh wait, you're comparing 1 draft from 1985 to the draft positions in the 2011 draft. Yes, you must be drunk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Oh wait, you're comparing 1 draft from 1985 to the draft positions in the 2011 draft. Yes, you must be drunk! Why would you quote half of my post and then talk out of context. Somebody said Bruce was picked #3. Somebody else posted a link, not saying what it was. I went to it and it was the 1985 draft. I clearly state what I did.....How could you possibly confuse it with the 2007 draft, which is when Peterson was drafted. Did Bruce at #1 not mean tell you all you needed to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 a lot of people said that about Leaf too when he came out From CNNSI "Leaf appears to be the hot QB in this draft, and he led WSU to a storybook season" June Jones Leaf's former coach "I've known Peyton Manning for a long time and I really love the kid. But when I went and watched Ryan Leaf workout he was impressive. I came away excited about coaching Ryan Leaf. He is going to be a franchise guy." Bobby Beathard former SD GM "You can go five to ten years without getting a chance to draft a quarterback like this." I would stay away from Luck unless he falls to us at the 3 spot. We need to fix our D anyway and stay with Fitz longer he still has an upside and was impressive this year. Plus our luck with Stanford QB's isn't good. You know I'm SO tired of the "Every 1st Round QB could be the next Ryan Leaf" crap...Ryan Leaf was a knucklehead of EPIC proportions...Ryan Leaf is a HUGE reason Teams check out Prospects and their personalities FAR more thoroughly today...The chance that a QB Prospect as off-kilter as Leaf will be Drafted in the Top 10 nowadays are VERY, very slim...That does not mean Top 10 QB's won't still be busts...It's the hardest Position to excel at in Pro Sports...But Ryan Leaf was a #2 Overall bust because he's a freaking idiot...And the chances of that happening anymore are slim and none...And slim done left town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You know I'm SO tired of the "Every 1st Round QB could be the next Ryan Leaf" crap...Ryan Leaf was a knucklehead of EPIC proportions...Ryan Leaf is a HUGE reason Teams check out Prospects and their personalities FAR more thoroughly today...The chance that a QB Prospect as off-kilter as Leaf will be Drafted in the Top 10 nowadays are VERY, very slim...That does not mean Top 10 QB's won't still be busts...It's the hardest Position to excel at in Pro Sports...But Ryan Leaf was a #2 Overall bust because he's a freaking idiot...And the chances of that happening anymore are slim and none...And slim done left town... I posted this months ago, but here again are figures about 1st round QBs: 677 QBs have been drafted in the NFL. 1st Rnd: 136 have been drafted. 64 of them have started at least 1 playoff game (47%) 15 started at least 10 playoff games (11%) 2nd Rnd-Undrafted: 541 drafted/unsigned. 131 have started at least 1 playoff game (24%) 12 started at least 10 playoff games (2%) Statistically: You have roughly a 1 in 2 chance of making at least one playoff game with a QB drafted in the first round. You have roughly a 1 in 4 chance of making at least one playoff game with a QB drafted outside the first round. You have a roughly 1 in 10 chance of making 10 playoff games with a QB drafted in the first round. You have roughly a 1 in 50 chance of making 10 playoff games with a QB drafted/signed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Warner Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Luck is a great prospect. I don't know about Failey - some concerns there. Darius I watched all season and I think he has some effort issues - don't like him. We need lots of help. I would get someone to trade down for Newton and grab as many picks as possible. Newton is the new Vince Young - great potential but there's just something missing I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Anybody that watched the Bills the past two weeks has to agree with you too. Our QB situation is miserable at best. I say give them our first round pick, Spiller and Stevie "Stonehands" Johnson. You dont know much about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 1. Marcell Dareus DE, Alabama. 2. Jake Locker QB, Washington. 3. Kelvin Shepard ILB, LSU. 4. Chris Hairston OT, Clemson. 4B. Jabaal Sheard OLB, Pittsburgh. 5. Cameron Graham TE, Louisville. 6. Dom DeCicco SS, Pittsburgh. 7. Armando Allen RB, Notre Dame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agardin Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 1. Marcell Dareus DE, Alabama. 2. Jake Locker QB, Washington. 3. Kelvin Shepard ILB, LSU. 4. Chris Hairston OT, Clemson. 4B. Jabaal Sheard OLB, Pittsburgh. 5. Cameron Graham TE, Louisville. 6. Dom DeCicco SS, Pittsburgh. 7. Armando Allen RB, Notre Dame. Locker is going to move up the boards once he runs and throws against air at the combine. I think if he slides to the second round and can sit behind Fitz for a couple of years that wouldn't be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Is Fitz why this team is losing games? Fitz raises the play of this team. Put up a better D for this team and put some more pieces around him and the offense and I think Fitz will be a much better QB. Just watch Fitz play with your eyes you see a guy the team responds to. We don't need Luck. We need some help in the trenches not a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanInLV Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 last time the Bills picked 3rd they grabbed someone by the name of Bruce Smith. I might be crazy, but I think we should follow a similar road map. We need a 'Suh' or another monster Defensive player that can be a game changer. ---A player that Offenses have to game plan against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 We need a 'Suh' or another monster Defensive player that can be a game changer. ---A player that Offenses have to game plan against. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 We need a 'Suh' or another monster Defensive player that can be a game changer. ---A player that Offenses have to game plan against. i get your point...but unfortunately there isn't another defensive "Suh" in this draft. i would be happy with Fairley...but i really want to trade up for Andrew Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Locker is going to move up the boards once he runs and throws against air at the combine. I think if he slides to the second round and can sit behind Fitz for a couple of years that wouldn't be a bad thing. Yes it would be a bad thing, Fitz cannot be the QB for years... Is Fitz why this team is losing games? Fitz raises the play of this team. Put up a better D for this team and put some more pieces around him and the offense and I think Fitz will be a much better QB. Just watch Fitz play with your eyes you see a guy the team responds to. We don't need Luck. We need some help in the trenches not a QB. Really? the bills dont need a QB? maybe youre happy with an inconsistent guy from harvard who was in the bottom third of the league in almost every statistical category. Fitz has been better than what this team has had in years, and that is making people see stuff in him that is not there. in case you missed it, Fitz was a major part of why this team was 4-12. he was pretty bad in the beginning of the season, got hot for a few then had some major clunkers. the guy is in the going into his 7th year in the NFL, there isnt much upside, he's not all of a sudden going to develop into a premier QB. btw the Bills were #4 in time of possession this year, so its a little hard to say the defense couldnt get off the field to let the offense score. Fitz had more time than almost anyone and cant get it done. Hes nothing more than a band aid QB until we can bring someone else in. Edited January 3, 2011 by K Gun Special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brohm put up huge numbers in Petrino's QB friendly system. Mallett has put up huge numbers in Petrino's QB friendly system. See where I'm going with this? I do, but these are entirely different QBs. Mallett is bigger, and probably had a better arm than Brohm does now when he was 16. He may not do well in the NFL (this applies to anybody), but the talent gap between Mallett and Brohm is as wide as an ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I do, but these are entirely different QBs. Mallett is bigger, and probably had a better arm than Brohm does now when he was 16. He may not do well in the NFL (this applies to anybody), but the talent gap between Mallett and Brohm is as wide as an ocean. Fitz put up huge numbers in Chan's QB friendly system. Just imagine if you get an actual NFL quality QB like Mallet, in the system. See where I'm going with this? Brohm and Mallet have very little to do with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Luck has been turned into something he is not. He is a better prospect than Mallet or Newton but not by a significant enough degree to pull a Ricky Williams. Nick Fairely or Marcell Dareaus will be a great edition to the Bills and will lead to more wins in the short team over a young QB. I agree with Fairley. But D-linemen don't "lead to more wins". A young QB is more likely to do that. Ask Detroit, St Louis, KC, Tampa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Steve Tasker likes Cam Newton the best, I would go with Cam Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 quarterbacks don't necessarily lead to more wins. Defensive linemen don't leas to more wins....Face it...a strong defense and a strong offense leads to more wins. Our biggest weakness is an inability to stop the run game and our second biggest weakness is an an inability to establish an effective pass blocking and running game. Defensive and offensive line is what has to be impoved to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Fitz put up huge numbers in Chan's QB friendly system. Just imagine if you get an actual NFL quality QB like Mallet, in the system. See where I'm going with this? Brohm and Mallet have very little to do with each other. Huge numbers? 22nd in yards 27th in comp pct 21st in avg comp 22nd in rating 9th most INTs Yea were set at QB alright. He did throw 23 TDs which is the same amount as Garrard but still less than megastar josh freeman. He also was one of the least sacked QBs and had the ball the 4th most every game. He's had every opportunity to shine. What were you referring to when you said huge numbers? Edited January 3, 2011 by K Gun Special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Brohm put up huge numbers in Petrino's QB friendly system. Mallett has put up huge numbers in Petrino's QB friendly system. See where I'm going with this? Didnt Aaron Rodgers fall, being a product of Jeff Tedfords system and history of failed QBs such as Dilfer, Akili Smith, Harrington, David Carr and Kyle Boller? See where Im going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 quarterbacks don't necessarily lead to more wins. Defensive linemen don't leas to more wins....Face it...a strong defense and a strong offense leads to more wins. Above average, IMPACT players lead to more wins. Except for Kyle Williams, I can't name one Bills player who comes close to fitting that description. The defensive front 7 is a joke and the OL is not much better. Whatever happened to "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes"? This front office can't get out of their own way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Fairley, Bowers, Dareus, Quinn, Peterson or Trade down to get extra picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Rockin your wrong Bruce Smith went #1 overall in 1985.. Get it right young one. Not young. Probably older than you. Just bad memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Huge numbers? 22nd in yards 27th in comp pct 21st in avg comp 22nd in rating 9th most INTs Yea were set at QB alright. He did throw 23 TDs which is the same amount as Garrard but still less than megastar josh freeman. He also was one of the least sacked QBs and had the ball the 4th most every game. He's had every opportunity to shine. What were you referring to when you said huge numbers? He played 13 games silly. I agree with Fairley. But D-linemen don't "lead to more wins". A young QB is more likely to do that. Ask Detroit, St Louis, KC, Tampa... It's funny that Detroit, KC, and Tampa all took D-lineman very early in the top of the draft. Plus KC didn't take QB early, they're successful with a (horror ) late round QB. And you can easily make the argument that Suh is directly responsible for more wins. You're really on nonsense roll today. Edited January 3, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 He played 13 games silly. It's funny that Detroit, KC, and Tampa all took D-lineman very early in the top of the draft. Plus KC didn't take QB early, they're successful with a (horror ) late round QB. And you can easily make the argument that Suh is directly responsible for more wins. You're really on nonsense roll today. detroit and TB already took QB's #1....and KC paid the price at "franchise" level plus a 2nd round draft choice for Cassel....my point is still, in building a team from the bottom....get a franchise QB.....then solidfy the lines on both sides with 1st and 2nd round picks.......pick up RB, WR, DB's in later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 If the Bills went CB in the first round, you'd see the first NFL stadium in history be destroyed by its fanbase. The fanbase of course, would march in an organized procession from Hammer's Lot at a medium pace. We're not savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Didnt Aaron Rodgers fall, being a product of Jeff Tedfords system and history of failed QBs such as Dilfer, Akili Smith, Harrington, David Carr and Kyle Boller? See where Im going with this. Did Tedford coach all those guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 If the Bills went CB in the first round, you'd see the first NFL stadium in history be destroyed by its fanbase. The fanbase of course, would march in an organized procession from Hammer's Lot at a medium pace. We're not savages. ESPN Insider ...Todd McShay latest Mock Draft projects the Bills will select Louisiana State cornerback Patrick Peterson. McShay writes "Peterson's combination of size, instincts and athleticism would be an instant upgrade for the Bills both on defense and in the return game." i want QB or DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Did Tedford coach all those guys? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Didnt Aaron Rodgers fall, being a product of Jeff Tedfords system and history of failed QBs such as Dilfer, Akili Smith, Harrington, David Carr and Kyle Boller? See where Im going with this. Yes, and the Packers saw the upside and were patient with him. They let him sit behind Favre for 3 years before handing him the reins. Most teams do not have the luxury of picking a young QB nowadays and letting him sit like that. The flip side of the coin is that the Packers could tell right away what they had in Brohm and cut him after a single year in which he never rose above 3rd string. It's funny, this time 3 years ago, there was a serious debate about which college QB was the best, Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm. Some scouts even said Brohm would be more ready to play at the NFL level from Day 1. Once talent evaluators started taking a closer look at him, they realized that Brohm had a limited upside and that he was NOT as polished as had been reported. Thus, he fell from potentially being a top 10 guy to being a 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Work on DL, LB and TE this off season. Next off season work on QB, DB, WR, RB. If those positions aren't the best football players? Other than QB, I think we need to get the BPA every year for a couple years during our building. We aren't drafting to fix our 2011 team, we are drafting to build a great football team. Needs change year to year, but mediocre talent doesn't become elite year to year. Don't reach on one single pick because we like the position please. Something Nix knows well from SD. Franchise QB is a different animal, and fortunately Fitz gives us the ability to pick the right QB in the right round this draft or next and sit him a whole year if needed like Palmer and Rivers. If we like a guy at #3 not named Luck I am fine with that, although I also think that we need to examine all the QBs pretty carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 i told you why i think he (fitz) is... but you didnt list why you think he isnt..and you also said"we" are you on the team? my opinion is fitz is the franchise until proven otherwise..... besides the team has much more problems to adress I don't know...22nd in QB rating in the NFL...27th in Completion %...21st in average yards per Pass...16th in Yards per game...And while he was 13th in TD's, Fitz was also 9th in INT's... Nothing about Fitz says Franchise QB...nothing...He's gritty and gutty no doubt...He's a decent stop-gap and a hell of a good #2 QB and teammate...But saying Fitz is a Franchise QB makes me wonder if you've ever seen a Franchise QB over the course of an entire Season...Becasue Fitz is not even in the same league as Peyton, Rivers, Brees, and the like...He's just not at that level... He played 13 games silly. So you think his QB rating, Completion percentage, average yards per Pass, and INT's would have improved with 3 more games? Right... I posted this months ago, but here again are figures about 1st round QBs: 677 QBs have been drafted in the NFL. 1st Rnd: 136 have been drafted. 64 of them have started at least 1 playoff game (47%) 15 started at least 10 playoff games (11%) 2nd Rnd-Undrafted: 541 drafted/unsigned. 131 have started at least 1 playoff game (24%) 12 started at least 10 playoff games (2%) Statistically: You have roughly a 1 in 2 chance of making at least one playoff game with a QB drafted in the first round. You have roughly a 1 in 4 chance of making at least one playoff game with a QB drafted outside the first round. You have a roughly 1 in 10 chance of making 10 playoff games with a QB drafted in the first round. You have roughly a 1 in 50 chance of making 10 playoff games with a QB drafted/signed otherwise. That was awesome!!! Good work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It would have improved greatly with a good offensive line and a defensive front seven that could have gotten opposing offenses off the field. Luck, Newton or Peyton Freaking Manning would have the same problems. For the sixth or seventh year now I'm saying it...start with the trenches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I do, but these are entirely different QBs. Mallett is bigger, and probably had a better arm than Brohm does now when he was 16. He may not do well in the NFL (this applies to anybody), but the talent gap between Mallett and Brohm is as wide as an ocean. Totally 100% agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 ive said it several times, 1st round QBs get teams to super bowls and win them. this team will never seriously compete for that goal until they have a better QB. That's funny i read a post that did some research and since 1999 there are only i think it was 4 or 5 first round QB's playing in the NFL today the rest are 2nd round picks or later . That's not saying a bunch for 1st rounders & that's not even saying that the best QB POSSIBLEY EVER Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round of the draft . You just have to have good scouts that can really see talent then a good coaching staff to polish them up to where they need to be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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