Mr. Wilson And Jerry Jones

[Bill from NYC]

Jerry Jones used to be considered part of the "new breed" of NFL owners and Mr. Wilson was thought to be a dinosaur. It occured to me that they really do have much in common:

 

1) They own teams that suck.

 

2) They both put their kids on the payroll.

 

3) Both got rid of proven, respected execs (Polian and Parcells).

 

4) Both hired a weak head coach in terms of him having much say wrt the draft, etc.

 

5) Both are WAY too involved with football decisions. Jones is open about it; Ralph almost certainly brought us Spiller. Jones acts as GM. While he isn't as bad as Levy was, he has no business running football operations imo.

 

6) The need exists for both to draft players who will put "fannies in the seats."

 

I post this because I think of Jones as quite smug. Meanwhile, is he THAT much more together than Ralph? But I warn you that Jones, an Arkansas grad, will do what it takes to get Ryan Mallett. Will Ralph?

 

We shall see.

[Erik]

Jones has more money aka more power. That's the only difference really.

[jack_spikes]

Maybe, but Jones aoplogized publicly to Cowboys fans today. Wilson won't. In fact, he's more apt do make a bad decision like extending the contract of a really bad coach, and then that coach's removal becomes highly warranted, Wilson publicly insults the fan's intelligence by keeping the offending coach on board while publicly claiming it's solely in the interests of continuity. Jerry Jones is a winner! Ralph Wilson is not!

[BillsFanInTexas]

Actually, Jones is in some financial trouble (at least that's what we hear around Dallas).

[Bangarang]

5) Both are WAY too involved with football decisions. Jones is open about it; Ralph almost certainly brought us Spiller. Jones acts as GM. While he isn't as bad as Levy was, he has no business running football operations imo.

 

 

Proof or link to this?

[Fezmid]

Proof or link to this?

 

Pure hyperbole.

[Bill from NYC]

Proof or link to this?

 

He said the team needed more "excitement." Is this enough proof for you, or are you thinking that this pick was a well thought, sound football decision?

 

I am open for dialogue.

[Fezmid]

He said the team needed more "excitement." Is this enough proof for you, or are you thinking that this pick was a well thought, sound football decision?

 

I am open for dialogue.

 

Usually agree with your Bill, but again - this is just hyperbole.

 

The team DOES need to be more exciting. Doesn't mean he had anything to do with the Spiller pick.

[Ramius]

Proof or link to this?

 

There is none. Bill is the only board member clinging to this asinine conspiracy theory.

 

In reality, Spiller was taken by Nix and co because he was the best player available, and a serious offensive threat/playmaker.

[Amstel]

at least Ralph has the balls to fire a coach midseason. If the cowboys have really quit then jerry should fire wade asap!

[AF88Bills]

Jerry Jones used to be considered part of the "new breed" of NFL owners and Mr. Wilson was thought to be a dinosaur. It occured to me that they really do have much in common:

 

1) They own teams that suck.

 

2) They both put their kids on the payroll.

 

3) Both got rid of proven, respected execs (Polian and Parcells).

 

4) Both hired a weak head coach in terms of him having much say wrt the draft, etc.

 

5) Both are WAY too involved with football decisions. Jones is open about it; Ralph almost certainly brought us Spiller. Jones acts as GM. While he isn't as bad as Levy was, he has no business running football operations imo.

 

6) The need exists for both to draft players who will put "fannies in the seats."

 

I post this because I think of Jones as quite smug. Meanwhile, is he THAT much more together than Ralph? But I warn you that Jones, an Arkansas grad, will do what it takes to get Ryan Mallett. Will Ralph?

 

We shall see.

 

As much as I hate to say it, but the Cowboys don't compare to the Bills....Jones expects to win and goes after it. As can be seen in their pursuit of quality personnel. The results may not show it this year, but at least they've been in the conversation. Wilson says he wants to win then allows 10+ years of questionable decisions to materialize.

[Dan]

And in the last 15 years the Cowboys have won just 1 more playoff games than the lowly bills.

[Doc]

1. True.

 

2. Most owners have their kids on the payroll.

 

3. Parcells left after a few years, as is his wont. Heck he was only in NE for 4 years. As for Polian, after losing 3 SB's (and eventually 4) and butting heads over finances (pre-cap), that marriage was doomed.

 

4., 5., and 6. Where did you get these?

[Albany,n.y.]

 

I post this because I think of Jones as quite smug. Meanwhile, is he THAT much more together than Ralph? But I warn you that Jones, an Arkansas grad, will do what it takes to get Ryan Mallett. Will Ralph?

 

We shall see.

If Luck is available, I hope Ralph won't do whatever it takes to get Mallett.

[Bill from NYC]

Usually agree with your Bill, but again - this is just hyperbole.

 

The team DOES need to be more exciting. Doesn't mean he had anything to do with the Spiller pick.

 

OK.

 

I think that this team needs to be stronger on the lines and at LB, and to win football games. Levy/Jauron destroyed this team with their horrid drafts. One poster (don't remember who) said that one could give an 18 year old kid 3 draft magazines and he would have done better than these two incompetent men. I FULLY agree.

 

Ralph is a businessman. You don't see me bashing him much on this board because I respect him, and thank him for keeping the team in WNY. But, he should never be confused with a football man.

 

You are right in that I offer no concrete proof that he was heavily involved in that pick but again, Mr. Wilson is a money man. Flashy players sell seats, beer, jerseys, etc. Making millions is the expertise of Mr. Wilson. He isn't an expert at building a good football team and got rid of those who were.

[Bangarang]

He said the team needed more "excitement." Is this enough proof for you, or are you thinking that this pick was a well thought, sound football decision?

 

I am open for dialogue.

 

Oh okay. Thanks. For a second there I thought you were just throwing crap at the wall and hoping something would stick. But you cleared that up for me.

 

....Oh wait

[st. pete gogolak]

Disagree totally. Say what you will about Jones (and I put him right behind Belichek in pantheon of all-time Bills villains), he has an absolute burning desire to win NFL Championships. Same thing with Synder for that matter. Wilson has, had and always will have a burning desire to make money from his franchise (please note I'm not saying he's cheap - two different things). Winning Super Bowls has always, always, always been secondary. Ask yourself why we didn't go after Charles Haley in '92 and Jones did. Difference between winning and losing a Super Bowl.

[jack_spikes]

And in the last 15 years the Cowboys have won just 1 more playoff games than the lowly bills.

Maybe so, but the Cowboys made the playoffs in '03,'06,'07, and '09. We all know the last time the Bills made the playoffs.

[tonyd19]

Pure hyperbole.

 

You Are A LIAR SIR.....Ralph & Jerry are in fact the same person known around the universe as Jelph. Jelph has been coordinating the fall of the Bills with the US Government ever since Operation Desert Shield! He is trying to secure an intergallactic Army centered around the Cowboys Cheerleanders....The Bills are just getting in the way.

 

As far as your HYPER- BOWL is concerned, Jelph is not interested in this type of intergalatic game until the Bills can actually win the Super Bowl.

 

(Sarcasm obviously intended)

Edited November 1, 2010 by tonyd19

[Dan]

Maybe so, but the Cowboys made the playoffs in '03,'06,'07, and '09. We all know the last time the Bills made the playoffs.

Is the goal to make it to the Playoffs or make it to the Super Bowl?

 

Despite all Jones' greatness, spending, and hype; the Cowboys have been only marginally more successful at the making it to the Super Bowl.

[Mr. WEO]

Don't look now but Ralph is making Al Davis Look like Bob Kraft.

[NoSaint]

OK.

 

I think that this team needs to be stronger on the lines and at LB, and to win football games. Levy/Jauron destroyed this team with their horrid drafts. One poster (don't remember who) said that one could give an 18 year old kid 3 draft magazines and he would have done better than these two incompetent men. I FULLY agree.

 

Ralph is a businessman. You don't see me bashing him much on this board because I respect him, and thank him for keeping the team in WNY. But, he should never be confused with a football man.

 

You are right in that I offer no concrete proof that he was heavily involved in that pick but again, Mr. Wilson is a money man. Flashy players sell seats, beer, jerseys, etc. Making millions is the expertise of Mr. Wilson. He isn't an expert at building a good football team and got rid of those who were.

 

Yes, cause the spiller pick makes millions without blocking? I suppose wood made millions? Maybin made millions? Levitre, mckelvin, mccargo and donte were all flashy picks to make money? If pretty much any of the early picks panned out we'd be a good team.even dating back to jp or big mike. We've invested in lines and not done well, we've gone after qbs and missed (rj, drew, jp). We have tried to win, and lately we have just missed on too many important decisions. That's different then a conscious choice to make money instead of win. Maybin over oher wasn't about flash or money it was about replacing kelsay short term and schobel long term. Something this board should get behind conceptually, even though execution failed.

 

Winning makes millions.

Edited November 1, 2010 by NoSaint

[Fezmid]

OK.

 

I think that this team needs to be stronger on the lines and at LB, and to win football games. Levy/Jauron destroyed this team with their horrid drafts. One poster (don't remember who) said that one could give an 18 year old kid 3 draft magazines and he would have done better than these two incompetent men. I FULLY agree.

 

Ralph is a businessman. You don't see me bashing him much on this board because I respect him, and thank him for keeping the team in WNY. But, he should never be confused with a football man.

 

You are right in that I offer no concrete proof that he was heavily involved in that pick but again, Mr. Wilson is a money man. Flashy players sell seats, beer, jerseys, etc. Making millions is the expertise of Mr. Wilson. He isn't an expert at building a good football team and got rid of those who were.

If Ralph was the person responsible for the Spiller pick, why does Spiller not get much playing time? Wouldn't you think Ralph would be forcing Chan to play him?

 

I agree that our lines are weak - we've both been saying the same thing since the (future Hall of Famer ) Bledsoe days. But despite that, I still don't think it was Ralph's pick. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Best player on the board - and Chan knew we had a million holes to fill.

[PromoTheRobot]

Jones is welcome to draft Mallet. I've heard more bad about the kid than good.

 

PTR

[Wilson's Ears]

Is the goal to make it to the Playoffs or make it to the Super Bowl?

 

Despite all Jones' greatness, spending, and hype; the Cowboys have been only marginally more successful at the making it to the Super Bowl.

 

tough to win a championship without making the playoffs...

 

Maybe, but Jones aoplogized publicly to Cowboys fans today. Wilson won't. In fact, he's more apt do make a bad decision like extending the contract of a really bad coach, and then that coach's removal becomes highly warranted, Wilson publicly insults the fan's intelligence by keeping the offending coach on board while publicly claiming it's solely in the interests of continuity. Jerry Jones is a winner! Ralph Wilson is not!

 

 

if wilson did call a news conference, he would be blaming the city, the fans, the economy, the snow, you name it... he has always been a worthless puke of an owner. i hate jerry jones with a passion. but that guy wants to win and i would be willing to throw a lot of money out there and bet the cowboys will taste the playoffs a lot sooner than wilson's idiots

[ExiledInIllinois]

Actually, Jones is in some financial trouble (at least that's what we hear around Dallas).

 

:worthy:

[Munch]

He said the team needed more "excitement." Is this enough proof for you, or are you thinking that this pick was a well thought, sound football decision?

 

I am open for dialogue.

 

Chan said he wanted a "waterbug" or Reggie Bush type player (I think waterbug was the word he used) well before the draft. I think that the Spiller pick was mostly Chans call actually. And I agree with another poster in that If I owned a team, and wanted a big time playmaker, I woukd likely be upset if we were 0-7 and said player wasnt getting many touches. All this leads me to the conclusion this was not Ralphies call.

[Spiderweb]

He said the team needed more "excitement." Is this enough proof for you, or are you thinking that this pick was a well thought, sound football decision?

 

I am open for dialogue.

 

Bill, generally your thought are very close or right on the money, but to continue to blame Ralph for every decision concerning the Bills personnel, or their draft choices borders on schizophrenia. This is not to say that Ralph is a saint and the Bills woes are due totally to the making of others, as this would be plain stupidity. Yet, he simply isn't the sole problem. Fault him for whom he brought in that makes or influences draft and personnel decisions, and you would have unanimous agreement.

 

Chan Gailey spoke well before the draft that he liked scat backs. He also likes what Roscoe brings to the table as well.

[BillsVet]

Just 3 years ago RW personally demanded Buffalo draft Lynch. This came on the heels of trading McGahee and having no RB on the roster unless you count Shaud Williams. Same guy who ordered Wade to start Johnson. Same guy who re-signed OJ in 76 without telling Saban. Same guy who allowed Knox to leave. Same guy who fired Polian. Same guy who offered Butler GM minimum wage. RW may not have picked Spiller, but is it that outrageous to think he wanted someone to sell the franchise with given the front office's probable prediction that tickets wouldn't sell. After all, the fan base had almost been promised Shanahan or Cowher and got offensive genius Chan Gailey and former retiree Buddy Nix.

 

Neither Jerry Jones nor RW have any track record of success without an actual football person. Jones without his former bud Jimmy Johnson and RW without Saban, Knox, Polian, or Butler have done nothing. Unfortunately their arrogance and stubborness interferes with keeping actual football people. I'd argue when Parcells went to MIA in 08 and took Sparano and Ireland with him that Jones' team didn't recover. RW's teams haven't recovered in 11 years after the last vestiges of the Polian years walked out the door.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Actually, Jones is in some financial trouble (at least that's what we hear around Dallas).

 

 

Wouldn't have anything to do with that space craft he had built for his team, would it?

 

[pimp on da' net]

As much as I hate to say it, but the Cowboys don't compare to the Bills....Jones expects to win and goes after it. As can be seen in their pursuit of quality personnel. The results may not show it this year, but at least they've been in the conversation. Wilson says he wants to win then allows 10+ years of questionable decisions to materialize.

 

+1

[Hplarrm]

Proof or link to this?

I think there is a fairly strong record of Mr. Ralph using the ability has as the sole owner to exercise control over football (on field aspects of the game that I among others feel that their are better people to hire for that rather than have Mr. Ralph exercise his right).

 

The particulars of him using his right to meddle (or decisions made that involved laying out big money where he almost certainly had a role are:

 

They are:

 

1. Ralph made a "handshake" agreement with Jimbo to reward him in his next contract which was a poor football judgment by Mr. Ralph as Jimbo was out of the league. Would have a professional make a different judgment? One cannot tell whether Butler made the same bad judgment, but even this non professional outsider was surprised when they did not draft an heir apparent for Kelly the year before they stretched and rushed to pick Todd Collins in the 2nd round. They then rushed to have him start to replace the fallen Kelly when he obviously needed to have the happy feet trained out of him (if they ever could have done this).

 

2. The Bills continued the Don quixotic like quest which only Mr. Ralph could have started with the poor football judgment about Jimbo by the team trading first day draft pick value for Billy Joe Hobert. Was Mr. Ralph the cause of this? Who knows for sure but in a buck stops here way one actually can blame here for not meddling and stopping acquiring a player who was so bad he needed to be cut mid-season.

 

3. The Bills made a great football judgment when they signed Flutie. However, they then signed RJ. This signing was not a problem as actually the trade value given up for RJ though high appeared to be about the going rate for a vet QB with one quality game to his credit.

 

Where they goofed up was to then give RJ a guaranteed deal before he proved he was not injury prone (a rational concern as in addition to his one quality game he got knocked out of his next one. One can credibly game the football guys for this miscue without evidence of Mr. Ralph exercising his owners right to meddle even if its stupid.

 

However, one has to reasonably doubt how they could have delivered so much of Mr. Ralph's money (the bonus is paid up front and definitely impacted the cash flow of a business Mr. Ralph is sole owner of) without him at least knowing and checking of on this deal. Even worse, this deal went back on the apparent Bills word that at least promised Flutie a real tryout for starting QB (which he did not get once JP got the big guaranteed $).

 

Even worse than that the contracts since they guaranteed RJs money and its cap hit and then also forced them by either agreement or rule to not only take the cap hit for DFs obtained bonuses but also made his bonuses part of his base salary which then forced the Bills to extend his contract to pro-rate the bonus and new base salary over a longer deal.

 

Either Mr. Ralph knew or it would have been malfeasance for him not to know.

 

4. I am not taking the time to look for the link (but if you can actually make the case against the first three points I will find this). After a RJ led team mopped up an Indy team which had already given up seeing on the scoreboard that the team they needed to lose for them to gain anything in playoff position from a win (and after seeing Corny Bennett who was their LB go down with a season-ending injury early in the Bills game) they coasted and RJ rolled. Mr. Ralph went on record when the press asked him which QB should start the next playoff game by saying you just saw the Indy game so who do you think. RJ started the playoff game and though he left the field with a lead it was the last time the Bills saw the playoffs after the owner spoke.

 

5. Likewise I will look up the links if you really demonstrate the interest by responding to these particulars, but Mr. Ralph also meddled in an issue that should have been left to smarter football heads when he tried to renege on what he contractually agreed to when he canned Wade (who did deserve to be canned when he publicly surrendered when there was a small mathematical chance of making the playoff, but he also deserved to have his agreement with the Bills honored,

 

Folks publicly told Mr. Ralph he was wasting his time and the Bills political capital with this quest and he lost.

 

The personal capital issue is important because even though the episodes above are based in fact and the following is a guess, my guess is that Butler played him and skipped town likely cause he was pissed at Ralph and meddling in the above areas is not an unlikely theory as to why.

 

Further his election to the HOF was delayed for some reason and my GUESS is that the cavalier way he ignored the salary cap and CBA with the handshake deal only he could make was a part of this.

 

I think this is the Mr.Ralph record. Do you have some other credible explanation?

[Jim in Anchorage]

Just 3 years ago RW personally demanded Buffalo draft Lynch. This came on the heels of trading McGahee and having no RB on the roster unless you count Shaud Williams. Same guy who ordered Wade to start Johnson. Same guy who re-signed OJ in 76 without telling Saban. Same guy who allowed Knox to leave. Same guy who fired Polian. Same guy who offered Butler GM minimum wage. RW may not have picked Spiller, but is it that outrageous to think he wanted someone to sell the franchise with given the front office's probable prediction that tickets wouldn't sell. After all, the fan base had almost been promised Shanahan or Cowher and got offensive genius Chan Gailey and former retiree Buddy Nix.

 

Neither Jerry Jones nor RW have any track record of success without an actual football person. Jones without his former bud Jimmy Johnson and RW without Saban, Knox, Polian, or Butler have done nothing. Unfortunately their arrogance and stubborness interferes with keeping actual football people. I'd argue when Parcells went to MIA in 08 and took Sparano and Ireland with him that Jones' team didn't recover. RW's teams haven't recovered in 11 years after the last vestiges of the Polian years walked out the door.

I don't live in Buffalo or follow the nuts and bolts of the team off season very closely, but who made that almost promise?

[Doc]

Actually, Jones is in some financial trouble (at least that's what we hear around Dallas).

If true, and it wouldn't surprise me, karma!

[JohnC]

Jerry Jones used to be considered part of the "new breed" of NFL owners and Mr. Wilson was thought to be a dinosaur. It occured to me that they really do have much in common:

 

1) They own teams that suck.

 

2) They both put their kids on the payroll.

 

3) Both got rid of proven, respected execs (Polian and Parcells).

 

4) Both hired a weak head coach in terms of him having much say wrt the draft, etc.

 

5) Both are WAY too involved with football decisions. Jones is open about it; Ralph almost certainly brought us Spiller. Jones acts as GM. While he isn't as bad as Levy was, he has no business running football operations imo.

 

6) The need exists for both to draft players who will put "fannies in the seats."

 

I post this because I think of Jones as quite smug. Meanwhile, is he THAT much more together than Ralph? But I warn you that Jones, an Arkansas grad, will do what it takes to get Ryan Mallett. Will Ralph?

 

We shall see.

 

 

There are a variety of ways to foolishly run an organization. Ralph Wilson doesn't haven't to be compared to any other owner to demonstrate his ineptitude. While the owner of the Cowboys has made a lot of mistakes and has even made himself part of the football operation as their so-called GM he at least has a desire to win. His mistakes are due to being too proactive while the Bills operation is simply a chicken-****-third rate operation.

 

There is no doubt that Jerry Jones has made a lot of mistakes in running his organization. But he certainly wouldn never be so foolish to bring in a clueless Levy to take over the reigns of his organization. Then, replacing him with his marketing specialist was not only a bad move, it was outright an odd move.

 

Look at the Cowboy team. At least they have talent on their roster. The Bills have been bad for a decade and their team is still devoid of talent. After a decade of failure the Bills are no better than an expansion level team.

 

Pointing out the failures of other teams does nothing to address the systemic dysfunction of our own team. The Bills are without a doubt a product of their archaic owner. It is embarrassing and shameful.

[Doc]

There are a variety of ways to foolishly run an organization. Ralph Wilson doesn't haven't to be compared to any other owner to demonstrate his ineptitude. While the owner of the Cowboys has made a lot of mistakes and has even made himself part of the football operation as their so-called GM he at least has a desire to win. His mistakes are due to being too proactive while the Bills operation is simply a chicken-****-third rate operation.

 

There is no doubt that Jerry Jones has made a lot of mistakes in running his organization. But he certainly wouldn never be so foolish to bring in a clueless Levy to take over the reigns of his organization. Then, replacing him with his marketing specialist was not only a bad move, it was outright an odd move.

 

Look at the Cowboy team. At least they have talent on their roster. The Bills have been bad for a decade and their team is still devoid of talent. After a decade of failure the Bills are no better than an expansion level team.

 

Pointing out the failures of other teams does nothing to address the systemic dysfunction of our own team. The Bills are without a doubt a product of their archaic owner. It is embarrassing and shameful.

Failure is still failure regardless of the "desire to win." Stop making excuses.

[34-78-83]

- Both Nix and Gailey's area of expertise with respect to college player personnel was in the southeast , where Spiller played. Seems like a no brainer pick considering the top 2 Tackles were gone already...Certainly does not seem like a Wilson pick, if there has even ever been one of those.

[JohnC]

Failure is still failure regardless of the "desire to win." Stop making excuses.

 

As usual you missed the basic point. Ralph Wilson is a failure in his own right. He doesn't need to be compared to anyone else because he has his own inimitable way of failing.

 

Most people would agree that the Cowboys are underachieving, to put it mildly.. Most people would also agree that the Bills are not underachieving. They are simply a bad team.

[BillsVet]

I don't live in Buffalo or follow the nuts and bolts of the team off season very closely, but who made that almost promise?

 

They went hard after Shanahan. They went hard after Cowher and continued courting him into January. If one deals in absolutes as this board tends to do, there was no promise. But any fan who observed the post-DJ era (Nov through Jan) knows they wanted a big name and demonstrated this with their pursuit.

 

Aside from some homers, most people were not thrilled with Nix or Gailey's hirings. They were the definition of underwhelming when viewed especially from the scope that they went after such bigger names only to be rejected.

[Doc]

As usual you missed the basic point. Ralph Wilson is a failure in his own right. He doesn't need to be compared to anyone else because he has his own inimitable way of failing.

 

Most people would agree that the Cowboys are underachieving, to put it mildly.. Most people would also agree that the Bills are not underachieving. They are simply a bad team.

The basic point is that "desire to win" and a quarter won't even get you a cup of coffee. I find it funny that more than a few people laud Jones for his "desire to win" in the face of spending massive amounts of money, yet still failing. The problem with him is his ego is the problem since he thinks he can do it himself. Wilson's problem is finding the right men to run things (and yes, I know he fired Polian. Let it rest). There's a difference. Same goes for Snyder.