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Tremaine Edmunds is only 21!

I'm not sure "signed a second contract with the team that drafted them" is a good criterion to decide if a player is a "hit" or a "miss". Take, for example, Edmunds. Did he sign a 2nd contract with the team that drafted him? No. Was it because he was a "miss"? No, he started 5 years for the Bills and didn't sign a 2nd contract only because he made himself a very high priced FA, and we prioritized re-up'ing our 1st round QB (drafted that same year) and 1st round DT. And (for example) 2019 QB Daniel Jones counts as a "hit" because he was offered a 2nd countract - but do Giants fans count him as a hit? Do we?

Wasn't it in the same draft where Beane moved up to get Allen he also moved up to get Edmunds. If I remember correctly.

Chicago does well in round 1!! They'd be thrilled with these selections AND the added draft capital. Bonus: Latu at almost a full 4 years older, should be a good mentor to Edmunds. Love this pick right here. Get your guy. Finally, the Raiders have hope.

I agree with your take. I'm still pissed that we didn't get that 3rd rounder for Edmunds. I do think that Beane will look to move up, but I don't think there will be any takers. Trading down seems very likely. Maybe we move down a couple spots with San Francisco, and get one of their many draft picks. Then find someone early in the second round to trade with?

I guess I kind of think the opposite of this. The time for me to burn draft picks would have been while Josh was in his lower cap years. We kind of need the picks to hit now to manage the finances unfortunately. In the low cap hit years we are able to grab a Von Miller type player or two, now there is less overhead and more reliance on smaller vet contracts coming in. I am thinking he is going to try and leverage Josh's talent as much as possible and I thought it was an interesting point when he said he needs a selfless guy in this offense. Not sure if the top guys are that, but that's just because of my ignorance. I'm guessing they have identified a few guys who fit the mold they're looking for and I wouldn't be surprised if they're 2nd and lower round guys. The big swing, if taken, will be a deviation from Beane's normal mantra. Will be interesting to see if he is feeling a little pressure to dump some future resources into this year. I thought it was awesome when he positioned us to not give up any future picks when moving up for josh/Edmunds and I think it just underscores his natural aversion to giving the next years picks up. Always room for a tendency breaker though. Can't wait to see on Thursday.

Move back, he's upset about no 3rd for Edmunds and wants to get some guys that can start in 2024 and maybe 2025 and to me that comes from quality picks early and easiest way to get more is to trade down in Round 1.

Agreed. I don't want a Whaley type move of stupidly giving away the store with trade ups, and McDermott did give away picks for Edmunds and Elam. I also think that quarterbacks AND receivers obviously benefit from very strong offensive lines. A quarterback like Josh can find any receiver given all day to throw. Your stats went back 20 years but the NFL is an increasingly offense oriented league, passing in particular. I think that the Bills should focus on wide receivers and blockers for depth. This would well serve to keep the Bills competitive. One last point.....I saw the blame that you placed on the Bills losses in recent big games, but you left out McDermott. I'm just sayin.....

Thanks. That's interesting. One thing about Allen is that he tends to speak in generalities, and in this case, as in many others, neither you nor I can be sure precisely what he means. My take on Allen has been that he is still learning how to process the game and to make high quality decisions, something that both Burrow and Mahomes excel in. Josh has, in my view, been improving year by year, and I think this season or next we will see the full-fledged star, the guy who can manage the game and also make plays like no one else. My take, therefore, has been that he's always been presented with relatively complex pro offense to run and that he just hadn't developed the skills to run it. So, when he wasn't sure what to do, he let his athleticism take over. The coaches may have been okay with that, because his athleticism was so great that it yielded good results. (Compare him to EJ Manuel, for example, who when he wasn't sure let his athleticism take over, but who wasn't nearly as talented as Allen. Pro football moved on from Manuel pretty quickly, but Allen survived because his talent was so great, his coaches have been patient with his execution of the offense.) What you and I don't know is the extent his coaches actually encouraged him to just create when the first or second option wasn't there. Whatever he did five years ago, I don't think they're encouraging him to do it any more. I mean, sure, when plays break down, he's going to scramble and create, but I don't think they want him doing that at a higher percentage than Mahomes does. These are the kind of conversations I would love to sit down and have with Brady or McDermott or Josh, to really understand what they're thinking. What do they think they need to win? Maybe even more than the offense, I'd love to hear McDermott about the defense because, frankly, I'm more puzzled about the defensive philosophy than the offense. That is, the offensive philosophy is, I'm sure, that if the Bills can get five skill players on the field with Allen and get them all to execute, the Bills will have a great offense because Allen gives them one extra skill player compared to virtually every other team. I think McDermott hoped Edmunds was going to be the X-factor, "we-have-him-and-you-don't" guy, but that didn't work. What is that McDermott thinks his going to give him a standout defense?

I hear you both that defense is a question mark. But then, last season with losing Edmunds and not having a clear cut MLB or Von Miller to start the season and with Tre White as a giant ? based on the end of 2022, I thought our defense was iffy and our offense would have to carry us (which, I thought it could) Turned out it was the other way around - our defense was solid until we lost Tre, DaQuan and Milano, with Floyd playing great in place of Miller and Tre back to his old form. Our offense was tenuous with splendid plays offset by miscues. I think the D will be O.K. provided Milano is back to form and we get SOMETHING from Von Miller besides interviews and podcasts. Both the guys we brought in at S (Rapp and Edwards) can play, so can Douglas and Benford. Injuries are a huge question right now, as we're thin behind the starters. I guess from that, my learning is I have more faith in McDermott and Beane to bring forward a defense that works no matter what and to add what they need if they don't, than I do in them to devote enough resources and have the right OC and players in place on offense.

Beck, I think you're talking about of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, you say you want a stud #1 and you question what Beane is doing. On the other hand, you don't want to pay someone like Aiyuk, because it might go wrong. Well, trading up to get a stud might go wrong, too. One thing about Beane is that he's fearless. He wasn't afraid to trade up for Allen, he wasn't afraid to trade up for Edmunds, he wasn't afraid to deal for Diggs, he wasn't afraid to go get Miller. He's going to look at what opportunities he has, and he won't shy away from pulling the trigger. And I think you misperceive the reality of 2024 NFL offense. A true #1 may have been necessary in 2019, but multiple offenses last season, several of the best, operated without a true #1. One way to understand the difference between then and now is to think about whether you'd rather have Saquon Barkley or McCaffrey in you backfield. In my mind, it's quite clear that McCaffrey is much more valuable in current NFL offenses. Stud specialists, like Barkley and Henry, and I think Jefferson and Chase, aren't as valuable in offenses as guys who are multiple. That's why the Bills got Cook, and that's why the Bills got Samuel. And that's why Beane said he doesn't think he needs a true #1. He's looking for a talented guy who is smart, athletic, can run a complex route tree, can block, etc. etc. etc. If somehow a stud #1 falls to him, great, he'll take him. But he doesn't see it as a need. What he needs is another multi-talented guy to go with Cook, Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid. That's what McDermott and Brady have asked Beane to find. I remember when the Bills got Diggs, I was excited because it was, in my words, an upgrade at three positions. They got a true #1, they got a better #2 my sliding Brown into that role, and they got a better #3 by moving Beas to his natural position. Well, offenses don't have clear 1s, 2s, and 3s any more. Offenses are multiple. They want five skill players on the field, each of whom can attack all areas on the field. The 49ers are the best example. Neither Samuel nor Aiyuk was a true #1, but man, those two plus Kittle and McCaffrey cause headaches. That's what Beane is after.

I'm not going to go back through the press conference and find, but I think he said it very clearly. It was in the discussion about whether he needed to get a Diggs again, and yes, he said he didn't need to. He said, essentially, what I said a couple weeks ago - that the Bills are comfortable playing with a lot of good receivers without a stud. But as he was saying that, he also said something like, "of course, it's always nice to have one of those guys." I thought it was very clear - if a stud falls our way and he fits into our plans, then, sure, we'll do it. It's just that he doesn't feel the need to do it. He just needs another good contributor. When i was talking about it earlier, I said that one of Shakir and Kincaid and Samuel is going to go over 1000 yards, and all they need is another guy to get 500 or 600. I really think they're thinking that. That additional guy be a first or second round rookie who has the potential to become a #1 or it could be someone else. But, just as an example, if nothing breaks right in the draft, it could be D Hopkins or OBJ. They're going to do something. They need another receiver. The point is he DIDN'T say "we are NOT looking for a #1." He said everyone would like to have one of those studs, but the clear implication was that the Bills don't think they need one. What I said above is that if, and I have no idea whether it could happen, but if what the Niners need in a trade for Aiyuk is affordable to Beane will pursue it. He'd be crazy not to. And I'm not talking about next year's #1 - yes, he was clear, and I agree, that he should trade next year's #1. But this year's 1 and 2 to get a proven, stud receiver who could give the Bills one of the very best receiver groups for the next three years, I think Beane would pull the trigger on something like that. The bottom line is that he and McDermott are building a team. Spending here means they can't spend there. They make decisions like that all the time. They want a receiver. There are a lot of different kinds of receivers available. They're going to make a choice. Remember Beane talking about drafting Edmunds? He said preparing for that draft he went through dozens and dozens of scenarios, but none of the scenarios included getting Allen AND still have a shot at Allen. But it happened. What I'm really saying is that if the 49ers call on draft day with an offer, Beane and McDermott are going to try to figure out how to do it. All options are on the table.

Can they throw in Edmunds?? 😆

@Kirby Jackson, prepare to be disappointed IMO. Right or wrong to do it, looking at Beane and his history of round 1 suggests otherwise. Even his three largest moves to date (Diggs, Allen, Edmunds) are not even close to the level of this kind of monumental deal. He’s been historically more likely to move slightly in RD1. I’d be very surprised to see this happen and get to #4. Pair this with the cards reportedly asking for 3 #1’s….i just don’t see it.

I couldn't read the aricle becasue of the paywall, but that premise is correct IMO. The more swings you get in the draft, the better chances you have of getting a hit. Early rounds (1-3) render better athletes, so it obvously makes a difference where your picks lie. While I generally like Beane, I hate his draft philosophy of moving up to get "his guy." It costs us swings at the bat to get young cheap talent. Here are the early trade ups. QB you have to move up for, but the rest are very debatable how well we did. In 2018 he moved up for a QB, which worked out because the Bills were lucky nobody selected Allen before us. Edmunds cost us a 3rd (we got back a 5th). 2019 sent a 5th for Cody Ford. Gave up 2 4th rounders for Knox. 2020 trade for Diggs, sent a 1st, 5th, 6th, and a 2021 4th. Got a 7th back 2021 no trade up. 2022 Elam cost a 4th 2023 Kincaid cost a 4th.

So many variables if we took Mahomes at 10 though as could be debated we'd never gotten a 3rd for Tyrod as doubt Mahomes sits on bench his rookie year here. Also with no White on defense is it what we've seen? Do we still trade up for Edmunds or take another LB? I'll say it. I don't think Patrick Mahomes have the success we've seen him have in KC if we took him instead.

The 5th turned out to be Tommy Doyle and Edmunds lead to our extra 4th this year so the trade still keeps giving for us for now.

It's Edmunds with a hair cut

Exactly, I remember that most of this fan base wanted the Bills to trade up to the #2 spot with the NY Giants in 2018 to draft Josh Rosen! How much of a mistake would that have been by giving up the farm for a bum? It could happen at WR too. If this is a such rich WR draft class why feel the need to move up to get one as there are 12 WRs listed in DJ's top 50 players? https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2024-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-2-0 While other teams are scrambling to find that elusive franchise QB or pass rusher, or OT. Buffalo could sit tight and get a really good player at 28. OR trade back and pick up that extra 3rd rounder that they lost with the Edmunds moved from a 3rd to a 4th. The Green Bay Packers have made a living out of drafting WRs in the second round. What about Puka Nacua in the 5th last year? The only position that currently is worrisome to me is the center position by losing Mitch Morse, who called the offensive protections and was a stable force at that position since 2019 and was a pro bowler.

Wait, do the Bills have a 3rd this year? I thought we traded our 3rd for Rasul Douglas mid-season, and only got a 4th in comp for Edmunds.

I like the idea of a trade down to the early 2nd round and grabbing two WRs. I don't think trading for one of the top 3 WRs is realistic. Or at least not a good idea. If the Bills give up 28, 60, 2025 1, 2 how do they fix the rest of the team? Our DEs are Rousseau and Von. Next year we pay $13mil for Rousseau if we want to keep him. After that he probably costs $20mil/year and gets a Tremaine Edmunds type contract for someone I think is a good player who is going to get paid like an all pro. We are going to need at least 1 probably 2 starting DEs. Our safeties are Rapp & Edwards. We have no O-line or CB depth. We have $5mil in cap space next year with only 38 players on the roster, 2024/2025 rookies not accounted for, and Rasul Douglas & Spencer Brown as free agents we might want to re-sign. If we trade up to the top of the draft for a WR and have no 1st or 2nd round picks and no cap space how do we even start fixing the defense until 2026/2027?

To be truthful, I don't think Edmunds enjoyed contact. Mitch Morse said about Josh Allen that "he's sick in the head because he likes it" (meaning contact, running people over, taking a good hit). Richard Sherman talked about the first time he went to tackle Josh Allen, Josh lowered his shoulder and Sherman was thinking "oh, OK now, you the QB and you're going to lower your shoulder, let's go". He said "next thing I know, I'm on the ground, you see them little blinks". You would know more than me, but I've heard football players talk about the buzz they get from contact, it goes white, "you see them little blinks", it's an adrenaline rush. They all get desensitized to the pain of contact where instead of taking over their nervous system with a rush of sensation, the brain says "OK, no injury there, Carry On", but the ones who play with joy and abandon actually get something enjoyable from a good hit. "You need a little contact" I could be wrong, I just don't think Edmunds ever enjoyed or got into hitting or taking hits. Whereas you can tell Bernard and Williams are "Bring It!". Taylor Rapp is a bit *TOO* "bring it!".

I agree this is true, but I also think Edmunds was just not as good an athlete as the other two guys.

I liked Bernard because he saw the field in a way that lead to pass breakups and turnovers. Edmunds was a good player, and his ability to take away passing lanes likely results in the QB holding the ball which forces sacks and throwaways. He just never developed that instinctual nature that milano and bernard possess (and all the great off ball linebackers have). I think you would get more out of trading spencer brown. Low cap hit for 2024 (most teams have spent a lot of their cap budgets to this point in the season), he's 26, and he's due an extension in 2025. It'd be basically like moving a potential comp pick from 2026 to today - but considering we'll likely be spenders in 2025, you would potentially be losing him for nothing. This assumes you are comfortable with collins or van demark at RT.

We shall see. It’s not just WR. His dopey DL investments for the most part have been a disaster. The core 4 playmakers on the backend of the defense have been Hyde, Milano, Poyer, and White. They were all brought in prior to Beane’s GM tenure. Now you can argue that he kept them together and made their salaries work and that’s fair. But he wasn’t the driving force for their initial acquisition. In fact, his other acquisitions have been littered with mild to moderate hits, and misses. Edmunds was a massive disappointment based on draft status and investment. Ed is a top 10 pick that just had the best year of his career and is signed up long term, so I consider that a W. When you look at the roster during Beane’s tenure from when he got hired to today, he has done a good job at plugging in holes and rounding out the roster. The good to great talent infusion has not been there. If you want to compare the regime to the Chiefs, we have been getting dogwalked in drafts and acquisitions compared to them. McDuffie is an All-Pro, Elam is a healthy scratch. Karlaftis is a double digit sack guy, Rousseau is a better version of Shaq Lawson. Cody Ford vs their IOL investment. It goes on and on. I would honestly argue that we have a QB comparable to Mahomes (even though I think Mahomes is a bit better but it’s closer to splitting hairs.) Their talent acquisition has crushed us. Maybe Allen can be great enough to overcome it in the biggest spots but he hasn’t yet and expecting him to just figure it out with a team that is aging out of championship caliber because our best players were acquired 7 years ago is not fair to him. I’m harder on Allen than most, but I try to be fair. Allen’s competition isn’t 31 other QB’s it’s the other top 3-4. Beane’s competition isn’t 31 other teams, it’s the top 3 or 4. We need both of them be better imo, but Beane is the one that has WAY more ground to cover.