Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

Kind of like Norv Turner. Must be something about coaching Dallas. Maybe JJ pays other teams under the table to hire these guys so he can claim the offsets! LOL

My Thoughts: 2 Penalties There's another entire thread titled something to the effect of "D line rotation is hurting us" I don't think that is really true, but do wonder if the rotation does lead to some of these rough the passer and personal foul calls. It may be that some like an Obada aren't getting that many snaps so when he's in there goes a little bit harder to both show how good he is and also as an audition for other teams to see on tape as he is an upcoming FA I believe. And in doing so they are going too far and taking penalties. If playing more snaps get a better feel for the game in when to go all out and when to hold up. 3 Ford Agree, he looked OK. If you add up all the games Ford has played at guard for the Bills it adds up to about 10 games. Hard to judge someone after 10 games. 6 Special Teams Agree on McKenzie, will also add seems he's kind of become hell bent on taking every kick back and has been stopped short of 25 on a number of them too. On the other hand thought he is 5th in the league in KO return average if only counting players with more than 15 returns. Read some posts about missing Andre Roberts, he is on his 2nd team this year. 9 Dome Watching the game I was also thinking that a dome might not be the worst idea LOL Allen could/should be around for 10 plus seasons, plus league is becoming more of a passing league so even 20 years from now having a dome for a passing offense isn't the worst thing. You can build a team to play in bad weather, but that won't help you when weather is beautiful in Sept and October or the road games in LA. Having a strong passing offense down the road with a dome would likely be fine in at least 14 of the 18 games played. Saw a response above listing a much longer list of champion teams that played outside vs inside. Pats, Chiefs, Packers and Pitt are legit bad weather locations, however do seem to recall Green Bay losing two NFC championship games at home with great QB play on the team Most of Steelers championships were in a different non passing era and Chiefs won one time. Adding Bucs, 49ers, and Titans to list is kind of funny. I'd agree if Bills played in Tampa, no need for a dome. Am not that concerned about dome or open air for one or two games in January that won't even happen every year under the best of plans. More concerned with every year the games played in November and December.

Let me clear it up for you. After a loss any articles written that rip the bills or specific players are correct. If they say a certain thing wasn't the issue, then they are clueless. If we win it's the opposite. Having said that, Vernon Butler does seem to be a recurring message across multiple media outlets that re-watched the video. Fina is a little rough though to state lack of effort as opposed could be just lack of talent. Indy's line is one of the biggest and strongest. Agree, Oliver has been praised most of the season for good play. From what I read about Oliver in this game sounded like they used some of his aggressiveness against him, they'd let him penetrate only to then go behind him. Was that was he was supposed to be doing and someone else then suppose to fill in or more mental mistakes. He's kind of been doing that all season so maybe that is what he's being told to do?? As for Ford, most articles I've read all said Ford actually played pretty well minus the false start and some I read said it could have been called on Williams instead as they both jumped.

True, but still didn't help. Statistically does count, recall at the end of the game seeing the stat posted Points off Turnovers 24-0

One other thing the article didn't mention but from what I recall has also been a difference is injuries. Last two seasons we stayed pretty injury free. This year while only one season ending (Zimmer) have had a few more small ones and occurred at the positions the team can least afford.

14 of the 24 points were though of the offenses and ST own making.

I believe those were his exact words LOL

Well actually the paragraph following the mention about losing the close games kind of said the same thing, but used a slightly less graphic example. But did make the same point, think he was trying to say maybe last years team was a little lucky to have the 13-3 record too.

The article discusses a number of points many posters here are singling out as the issues and goes through a number of advanced stats and compares this season to last and most areas the numbers are similar; better point differential, better expected points added; deep ball is much better than last year, doing better against two deep than last year; top 10 in pass blocking win rate. Did comment on run game, while very bad, not really that much different than last season. Talks a little about the defense, but mainly article is about the offense. Where the differences are statistically: Interception rate and specifically what he calls untimely interceptions, Allen is 29th out of 37. Basically said if for the rest of the season Allen just were to throw league average of Int's they'd be much better 4th down conversion 3 for 10 this year, last year 8 for 10 Allen's accuracy, down from 2nd in league to 16th and way down on accuracy to Diggs. Penalties, ranked 27th there and believe lead the league in number called against. And one other point he mentions is close games: Last year, the Bills were 4-1 in games decided by seven points or fewer. This year, they’re 0-3. If that 0-3 were 1-2, we’d be looking at a 7-3 team. If it were 2-1, the Bills are probably being touted as a better version of last year’s squad and Super Bowl favorites. https://theathletic.com/2971174/2021/11/23/panic-time-for-the-bills-nope-heres-why-you-probably-should-still-believe-week-11-nfl-reality-check/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

I get your point , but it was more the opposite. The year they were coined the Bickering Bills, they took a step backwards and got knocked out earlier. After that they stopped the infighting and went to 4 Super Bowls. Yeah would tend to agree.

Read many times from both Daboll and Allen about how close their relationship is with each other. I wonder if that's part of the problem, they've become too close??

The one exception to that is QB's and Allen. He could easily last 10 plus years. Throwing QB's seem to making a comeback league wide so even after he's gone, could get another similar styled QB. So a dome isn't such a bad idea IMO. Actually was thinking a similar thing yesterday during the game.

Meant to say 4th season, my thinking was getting close to average length of career. To me the graph shows that once you remove the over achievers that have long starred careers and become the starters, most others that are left are role players that get replaced once on 2nd contract for cheaper and newer models

Often wondered, would the NFL be better off copying the NBA setup and have the draft prior to FA season? Looking at the Bills roster, if Beane had known he was drafting Groot and Basham first two rounds, would he have redone Addison's contract? Or Butler? Drafting three O lineman after also resigning Mongo and Williams made it hard to acquire much quality depth for O line. Brown and Doyle were both picked high enough, couldn't likely risk cutting either so kept them both plus five starters. Throw in Bates for versatility you already have 8 guys, that only leaves room for one more player likely to be an inside guy. Fortunately for the Bills they were able to move Williams inside, otherwise would really be a mess. In both these examples, having draft first would allow teams to make better FA choices? Admittedly would likely be harder to do in the NFL due to scheduling but I'm sure could be worked out. Combine early February, draft mid March, FA starts early April. Not sure NFLPA would ever go for this because of reasons I mentioned that it would solve, could instead result in free agents without a job or at best a lower paid one.

I'd tweak that slightly, sign top FA guard, and draft a G/C Draft a RB higher, or good FA with some good history. Probably easier to draft as cheaper and they have short careers anyway. Easier said than done!

Phillips was 4th rounder Moss a 3rd rounder, per chart below hard to call them busts. Likely too these numbers are skewed by a handful of low round superstars than play 10 plus years where as it's limited as to how far below average you can go. And also not ready to write off Ford either when you look at how little the guys really played in the past two seasons Beane wasn't even here when Jones was drafted.

Not sure there are any other players on the Bills roster who've been jerked around as much as he has in his 3 seasons here. In 2019 as a rookie played most of training camp and preseason at guard, think I recall even both guard positions due to injuries, then switched to tackle for the entire season. He played in all but one game, in 4 games less than 50% don't recall if that was due to getting nicked up or was he not starting yet early in the season. To expect a rookie to play guard all off season than move him to tackle is kind of amazing he did even half as well as he did. Not the best way to say welcome to the NFL. In 2020, they switched him to guard, but no off-season workouts, no preseason games, and a reduced training camp to start with. Judging by snap counts and a little memory he played: Week 1, played entire game Week 2, got hurt in Q3?? Week 3,4,&5 played all game Week 6 played a little more than half the game then got hurt Week 7 & 8 still out Week 9 played q1, got hurt and was out for rest of year 2021 Played 1st 3 games of season Week 4 played 10 snaps against Texans, did he get hurt or benched or are stats wrong?? Week 5 thru 7 DNP Week 8 played against Jax and struggled Week 9 DNP except at end Added up he's played a little over the equivalent of 10 games at guard, some missing time due to injury, some of his own making. Even in college played 1st and 2nd year at guard., then switched to tackle his senior year Overall IMO hard to really say he's a bust when played so little. He may never live up to 2nd round draft status, but that's not uncommon either, but may be salvageable too. The next play was the holding call, the play after was the Int, but looked like snap count was messed up on that one too as Morse snapped it, looked like before anyone else was expecting it. Best guard in the game may be a bit much. Tellers rookie year the Bills line was complete mess, they wanted experience and brought players in so weren't going to likely keep him over some of the other players they had. Best they could have done was cut him and hopped to sneak him onto PS. Believe the picks they got in return became Tyler Bass and part of the Diggs trade so not bad there either

Still feel if all teams healthy Bills have the most talented lineup top to bottom. That being said the one thing that brings out the worst in them is strong running teams like Tenn and Indy. Really only 11 teams in AFC with a chance at playoffs, so need to beat out 4 of them. AFC North, and West teams will beat each other up so that will help. So overall, still feel they make the playoffs and then who knows??

At least in the Jax game the defense played well. Today everything was bad, though all the turnovers certainly made it tough for the defense. Thought I saw stat 24 points off Bills turnovers??

The depth may be due to false sense of confidence as last two seasons had very few injuries, certainly not major ones so our depth wasn't tested very much. Will say too, the two positions I was most worried about today was Star being out and two offensive lineman out. Depth there is an issue, but still can't understand why the same top 7 looked so much better last year. Admittedly drafting two tackles hurt as they were drafted high enough 3rd and 5th, that couldn't risk cutting them, so had to place on 53. Add five starters, not much room left for depth players. They like Bates as he can play every position, so that only leaves one more slot. Factor in limited money and you got what we got. So now we have Doyle drafted high enough couldn't risk cutting him, but not good enough and experienced enough to play him either. I really thought they'd have found a way to stash him on IR all year, maybe do a Tonya Harding on him or something.

Sounds like a lot of Steelers fans there, but shouldn't be surprised by that. I mean I'm sure the Chargers have built up a huge local following in their two seasons in LA

The problem I have with the Oline is 7 of the same guys were here last season and they certainly while not great and did struggle running the ball, we had one of the top offenses in the league overall. Think it was a case of D line was higher priority and limited money to play with, do agree needs much work this off season. Tackles are OK, think Dawkins is not completely healthy. If I were running things would sign top FA guard, draft a guard/center high, bring back either Mongo or Williams as one inside starter, and also draft another one in maybe around the 4th as a backup. This is Fords 3rd season, his rookie year played most of pre-season at guard due to injuries, then played all regular season at tackle, they certainly didn't do him any favors in his development by jerking him around as much as they did. Last year they kept his at guard, again while not great, looked OK and assumption was learning. After no pre-season at all, he played week #1, got nicked up week 2 and played maybe 3/4 of game, came back played weeks 3,4,&5, then again got hurt week 6, maybe in 3rd or 4th quarter, sat out next two games, then came back played maybe 2 or 3 series, then got hurt and was out for the year. His lack of playing time made it tough on the team to evaluate whether he'd be an adequate starter this year or not. An in the limited he did play last season, looked ok and the hope was he'd improve with experience. But that hasn't seemed to have happened at all. Maybe there is something physically wrong with him still or again?? Many here will claim they knew he was terrible, but if these posters really knew these things, they wouldn't be posting here, instead working in the NFL. But his poor play has certainly handicapped the team this year as were counting on him to be at least a solid adequate player.

Maybe because he's seen them play?? In Bates case, it may be they don't want to risk an injury to their only backup center, and you have a starter with a history of concussions. But may have been worth the risk, though may also be they know the improvement isn't great enough to take the risk.

I'd let Star off the hook as rumor has it he's a Morman and vaccines are very controversial for their religion. Even if the NFL made vaccines mandatory, he'd be one of the few with a legit religious exemption request. But agree overall hard to be a SB competitive team and be one of the league leaders in least players vaxxed.

Yeah but none run at the level of either Indy or Tenn with Henry. Not certain is Henry done for year or could he be back for playoffs? Think we'll also win a game not expected to win. Tampa lost to Washington, Saints, to Eagles so they're not looking like world beaters either. If all teams are 100% healthy still think the Bills have the most talent top to bottom and in particular their starters.