"Can real fans root against their team?"

[Lori]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

October 9, 2009 9:22 AM

 

Posted by ESPN.com's Tim Graham

 

This might not be the best weekend for the Buffalo Bills to present owner Ralph Wilson with his Pro Football Hall of Fame ring.

 

Ugliness has been building among Bills fans, and after a morning of tailgating and 30 minutes of access to vendors and the concession stands, a potentially unruly crowd might greet Wilson with a rude reception in the stadium that bears his name.

 

But this event has been scheduled for halftime of Sunday's game against the Cleveland Browns. Wilson better hope his woebegone team puts the fans in a gleeful mood.

 

Based on submissions to the AFC East mailbag and comments left at the bottom of various blog entries, Bills fans have gotten so sickened they're actually rooting against their favorite team.

 

...

 

This type of feedback leads me to a philosophical question.

 

Can you, in good conscience, consider yourself a true fan yet want your team to lose?

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

[yall]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

 

I can't.

 

My level of interest is certainly waning, but I'm still not going to miss a single game, sucker that I am.

[Lori]

I can't.

 

My level of interest is certainly waning, but I'm still not going to miss a single game, sucker that I am.

I hear you. Fool that I am, I just booked my flight for the Carolina game ...

[Beerball]

I could not actively root for them to lose. I can however be apoplectic.

[Dan]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

[Nervous Guy]

I could not actively root for them to lose. I can however be apoplectic.

That's a pretty big word for you...but I agree.

[cantstopbeastmode]

Fans root for the best of the team. If I think getting rid of Jauron will help the team, and it takes losing to make that occur, then I still consider myself a fan even if I'm hoping we lose.

 

It's not as if I take pleasure in seeing us lose week to week, but the way I see it, we are never moving forward, as it is right now. If we go 4-12 Ralph has to fire Jauron, and that helps the Buffalo Bills organization, which is what I want.

 

I'm unsure that we're already in the "we should root for him to lose!" situation, so I do still want them to win, but once we're eliminated from playoff contention, the winning needs to end. Winning in Denver last year was the worst thing that happened to this team.

[nucci]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

Well said.

[BarkLessWagMore]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

 

That's my feeling. Have never seen the point in booing my team. Rooting against them...not an option. But I can lose interest, starting this weekend. At 1pm Sunday, I'll be driving in the southern tier with the wife and pooches enjoying the beautiful fall foliage and (hopefully) not listening to the game. I don't know if it's the 10 years of futility or my age, but this team has worn me down to the point to where I just don't care as deeply as I used to.

[Gordio]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

 

 

Can a fan root against their team. I do not know. I will let you know about 12:45 sunday when I call the book & decide whether I will take Cleveland with the 6pts or not.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

Make room in that boat, Lori - I'm climbing in with ya. When things go bad it gets easier to find other things to do.

[Lori]

That's my feeling. Have never seen the point in booing my team. Rooting against them...not an option. But I can lose interest, starting this weekend. At 1pm Sunday, I'll be driving in the southern tier with the wife and pooches enjoying the beautiful fall foliage and (hopefully) not listening to the game. I don't know if it's the 10 years of futility or my age, but this team has worn me down to the point to where I just don't care as deeply as I used to.

Fall Festival is in Ellicottville this weekend, if you didn't already know. Hopefully, all that foliage isn't still weighted down (or on the ground) by the rain; my grandfather used to call days like today "dark and dreary" in a somber tone of voice ... think it's supposed to get better for the weekend, though.

[billsfreak]

I don't think a real fan could root against their team, but they sure have every right to be disgusted with them, like myself and thousands of other Bills fans are with this disgusting organization.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Apathy is the word that comes to mind.

 

Sadly, though, I pride myself on watching every game to its final bitter end.

[Thoner7]

REAL fans love there team and ALSO want the best for them. A REAL fan wants a winning team. A REAL fan wants the organization to get on the right path. If it takes a 1-15 season for Dick to be fired and this organization to get on the right path than a REAL fan should want that. Yes no fan wants a 1-15 season, but a REAL fan wants there team to be a competitor. Sometimes you cant have your cake (a winning season) and eat it too(getting a new coach/GM/etc).

 

Dont try and team me I not a real fan because I want Dick fired and a real coach and real GM brought in. Thats what I am rooting for.

[damj]

Yes, fans can root against the team, if they think that it makes the team better. If you weren't a fan, you would just walk away and not watch anymore, not go to games, not participate in forum discussions etc ... A fan would not root against their team for no reason.

 

Bottom line is that this team is sucking the life out of it's fans, and it's a sad commentary that it's fans have come to this.

[Ray]

A real fan does not root against his/her team. You just can NOT root for your beloved team to lose. I think Lori is right n the sense that you become ambivalent and just don't care and that's when you are not really a fan of the team anymore...or at least at that specific time. Admittedly, it is very tough to be a fan of this team when they play like the last 5 quarters, but we were all excited just two weeks ago so you just never know.

[Slo_Bills]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

 

Yeah that's pretty much sums it up for me. I loathe the organization that the Bills have become, but I still poneyed up a king's ransom to directv to see the team I love (to hate) on every sunday. Why? I've recently ask myself over and over. The only logical answer is because I am a fan and I want to believe this is the week it's going to turn around. If not this week maybe next month or next year but I love being the fan that can say I stuck with this team when they were 2-14, or 7-9 or didn't make a playoff in a decade. Just my opinion but I personally wouldn't feel like a true fan if I jumped ship when things were horrible and was back on the bandwagon when they became good again. So I don't think you could ever root against your team and be a true fan. It's kinda like your little brother or sister you pester, argue or even fight with them, but noone outside your family better utter one bad word about them. We on this board may argue amonst ourselves but come sundays the bickering stops and its on for 3.5 hours...... GO Bills

[damj]

A real fan does not root against his/her team. You just can NOT root for your beloved team to lose. I think Lori is right n the sense that you become ambivalent and just don't care and that's when you are not really a fan of the team anymore...or at least at that specific time. Admittedly, it is very tough to be a fan of this team when they play like the last 5 quarters, but we were all excited just two weeks ago so you just never know.

Yes, but if people still care enough to come here and express themselves over it, then they still care, even if just a little. I don't care about the Detroit Lions ... so I don't go to their forums and discuss the Lions. I'm still a Bills fan, but this team needs a change ... DJ has proven time and time again that he isn't good enough, and until things get really bad ... Ralph won't make a change.

[muffmonster]

A true fan wants what is best for their team/organization. It is obvious that Jauron and company need to go, and if losing to the Browns makes that happen quicker all the better. Personally I will not cheer for the Browns, but I want them to win this game.

[Bill from NYC]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

If they were completely out of playoff picture, I could possibly not care if they won. But, even this is hard to do given the way we draft.

[BuffaloBill]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

 

 

Agree with your points ... well said

 

Given that rooting against your team is not acceptable there is still the question on the table - how do the fans support the team but still communicate that they must field a better product?

 

If Bills fans are anything, they are loyal. However, an owner or franchise is under no obligation to reward this loyalty. Hypothetically, the Bills could continue in thier present mode for many years if the combination of tv revenue, ticket sales, merchandising and other fan driven revenues allow the team to continue to operate in a profitable mode.

[HeHateMe78]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

 

Never could I root for them to lose to the Dolphins, Jets and Pats! Nevertheless, I would to every other team if that's what it is going to take to get this front office (especially Dick) out of the building!

[BarkLessWagMore]

Fall Festival is in Ellicottville this weekend, if you didn't already know. Hopefully, all that foliage isn't still weighted down (or on the ground) by the rain; my grandfather used to call days like today "dark and dreary" in a somber tone of voice ... think it's supposed to get better for the weekend, though.

 

Yeah, supposed to be dry this weekend. I'll get my football fix tomorrow at the UB game (can't go cold turkey). I think we'll avoid Ellicotville and Letchworth (big craft show) for the crowds and probably just stay on 16 all the way to Bonas. I really love the campus in the fall, it's just beautiful.

 

This is a great topic and I was thinking about the question at the heart of it, which is how do each of us show our dissatisfaction with this organization? I think there are many who feel weary about this team like we do. Some are enflamed and passionate, but I think the majority are beaten down. I really feel bad for the business owners who thrive on this team's success (bars, restaurants, team gear stores, etc.). Their lives have been affected far more than mine by this mess. I guarantee the Bills store business has to be way down, even with the T.O. bump. Just a very sad and depressing situation.

[CodeMonkey]

Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

That's where I am. I will still watch on TV when nothing better is going on, but no visits to the Ralph.

And I won't get upset if the lose, or elated if they win. Apathy has set in.

[jester43]

yeah, you can't stop rooting for them as long as they exist- and that includes the pitifully stupid sentiment that the team is better off by losing all the rest of their games to get a better draft pick. you don't win or lose based on a top-5 pick and i question the sanity of anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

i could never root against the bills. like most of us, the utter futility of it all has reduced my interest and the amount of $$ i spend, but i could never root against them.

 

the toronto bills will be entirely another matter, however.

[UConn James]

Great topic, Lori.

 

There's a lot of different conditions along the spectrum of fandom. There are those who will "drink the Kool-Aid" no matter what a team does or how badly it's performing. Some still watch/attend, but hate what they see --- think Randy Quaid's character in "Major League" (Wild Thing I think I looooo-athe you!!"). Some fans still love their team but can't stand to watch. Some are actively rooting for losses to make even a blind, cheap-o owner finally see that something substantive must be done --- this is a kind of "for the greater good" situation.

 

I guess I fall into this last category. As I wrote in a previous topic, to me there is a metaphor to this in medicine. Say, in surgery, some further pain must be inflicted in order for the problem to be removed and proper healing to start.

 

The common string among these is that they still want their team to win. Some fans take their view in the microcosm / short term of one game. Others who are "rooting against" the team are looking at the macrocosm and seeing what kind of situation it will take to precipitate the kind of changes needed, and desiring that --- if it takes several losses to get the ship's compass off of a "Winning is hard. I need more DBs!" heading and pointed toward the Super Bowl, so be it.

 

Right now, the Bills need someone like Bill Ford, Jr. to speak out and say something's rotten. There's no one in that position, really, in the Bills organization or the Wilson family. I think the closest person to that would be Jim Kelly himself, and he's rightly stepping carefully on these issues (in public at least) to avoid stepping on any toes. Let's hope he has a talk with Ralph in private and urges a more coherent FO strategy and coach decision.

[Dan]

REAL fans love there team and ALSO want the best for them. A REAL fan wants a winning team. A REAL fan wants the organization to get on the right path. If it takes a 1-15 season for Dick to be fired and this organization to get on the right path than a REAL fan should want that. Yes no fan wants a 1-15 season, but a REAL fan wants there team to be a competitor. Sometimes you cant have your cake (a winning season) and eat it too(getting a new coach/GM/etc).

 

Dont try and team me I not a real fan because I want Dick fired and a real coach and real GM brought in. Thats what I am rooting for.

So let's say someone roots against the Bills all season and they go 4-12. Great, right? But, then Jauron still doesn't get fired. Does this fan root against them next year too? At what point does this fan realize they're just bitter and hate the team they once loved?

 

 

To the bolded point... if Jauron somehow turned it aroud and started having winning seasons, do we still need a new coach/GM/etc.? Maybe (Chargers with Martyball) but maybe not.

[Lori]

Great topic, Lori.

 

There's a lot of different conditions along the spectrum of fandom. There are those who will "drink the Kool-Aid" no matter what a team does or how badly it's performing. Some still watch/attend, but hate what they see --- think Randy Quaid's character in "Major League" (Wild Thing I think I looooo-athe you!!"). Some fans still love their team but can't stand to watch. Some are actively rooting for losses to make even a blind, cheap-o owner finally see that something substantive must be done --- this is a kind of "for the greater good" situation.

 

I guess I fall into this last category. As I wrote in a previous topic, to me there is a metaphor to this in medicine. Say, in surgery, some further pain must be inflicted in order for the problem to be removed and proper healing to start.

 

The common string among these is that they still want their team to win. Some fans take their view in the microcosm / short term of one game. Others who are "rooting against" the team are looking at the macrocosm and seeing what kind of situation it will take to precipitate the kind of changes needed, and desiring that --- if it takes several losses to get the ship's compass off of a "Winning is hard. I need more DBs!" heading and pointed toward the Super Bowl, so be it.

 

Right now, the Bills need someone like Bill Ford, Jr. to speak out and say something's rotten. There's no one in that position, really, in the Bills organization or the Wilson family. I think the closest person to that would be Jim Kelly himself, and he's rightly stepping carefully on these issues (in public at least) to avoid stepping on any toes. Let's hope he has a talk with Ralph in private and urges a more coherent FO strategy and coach decision.

This one's Tim's -- I just wanted people here to see it. In fact, if anyone would like to take their responses to his blog or cut/paste them into his mailbag, I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

[UConn James]

So let's say someone roots against the Bills all season and they go 4-12. Great, right? But, then Jauron still doesn't get fired. Does this fan root against them next year too? At what point does this fan realize they're just bitter and hate the team they once loved?

 

I don't see that happening, but then again, stupider things have happened. At such a point, the ire would get turned full-on to Ralph... and I would suspect that season-ticket sales would slump miserably.

 

To the bolded point... if Jauron somehow turned it aroud and started having winning seasons, do we still need a new coach/GM/etc.? Maybe (Chargers with Martyball) but maybe not.

 

And if unicorns started galloping down the clouds and farting rainbows, we'd have world peace.

[EC-Bills]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

 

Same here.

[Chandler#81]

To the threads' question; Yes, but..

 

In '68 we were neck & neck with Philly for the '69 first overall draft pick. We won only one game and tied Miami which gave Philly the tie-breaker until they won 2 games in a row just before the finale. We came dangerously close to winning a couple games late in the year as the 'legend' of Ed Rutkowski blossomed and it came down to us @ Houston. In what would become pernenial, the Bills -THANKFULLY 'ran for the bus' and got creamed, sealing our fate with one OJ Simpson. We had to lose to get better, and we did.

 

In '84, Houston had won their 3rd game with 2 to play while we won our 2nd the same week. We almost screwed up and beat the Jets week 15 but 'ran for the bus' and got blown out by Cinci in the final. That 'wished for' loss gave us Bruce Smith. Can you imagine him as an Oiler for 13 years??

 

There are times when losing is the best thing. These 2 'hoped for' losses gave us 2 HOFer's.

 

As for Sunday, if Ralph made it known that a loss would be Jauron's swansong, how many of you would still hope for a win??

[John from Riverside]

I am at a sad point in my fanhood for the bills......

 

- A win against the Browns does nothing for us....but it buys DJ more life support where if he was to lose to the WORST team in the league maybe Ralph really does pull the plug.....

 

- This is actually a good week to be displaced out of my house and Sunday Ticket due to my water damage.......

 

- I certainly wont root FOR the other team

 

- The other thing I struggle with is I have a hard time rooting against the team becuase I am not positive it brings the change that I hope for should they in fact lose.......

 

- I have resigned myself that things are going to take care of themselves without me being a bad fan.

[Guest dog14787]

I posted this once and I'll repeat it, I'm not rooting against my team, I'm rooting against DJ and for change, there's a big difference in my opinion. If folks can't understand that, I'm not sure what to tell them because I was born in Buffalo and I'm as die hard a fan as you can get.

 

Tough love is what I would call it, but I am willing to sacrifice a few feel good wins against the NFL's worse teams for the long term better of the football team I love.

 

Let me ask you guys this, If you knew beyond a doubt DJ would be replaced if the Bills lose to the Browns, then what would you say.

 

Bottom line, we all deserve better...

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm not rooting against them but they have finally made me not care about them anymore. I'm blowing off the Browns game and I may not even watch it on TV. We've given Ralph a 10 year mulligan. If he can give up on his team, why can't we?

 

PTR

[Cornerville]

For me its a strange feeling: One one hard, the primary thing I would love to see the rest of the year is:

 

1. Levitre, Wood, and Bell eventually emerge as viable starters for the OL for years to come

2. Trent Edwards shakes this funk and takes a step forward.

3. Maybe a guy like Nic Harris gets a look and breaksthrough.

 

But...at the same time....we NEED this regime to be changes...STARTING with Brandon DOWN..NOT the coach down...bottom line: ORGANIZATIONS is where it starts....so I want the young guys to improve, but at the same time, lose enough to force the change that is needed so desperately.

[BillsFanNC]

As much as I want to I could never root against them, but apathy certainly has begun to set in. We will be traveling back to town this Sunday and normally I would DVR the game to watch when I get home but I'm not going to bother. Also, going to the Panthers game in a few weeks has lost a great deal of luster. F this team.

[Guest dog14787]

I'm not rooting against them but they have finally made me not care about them anymore. I'm blowing off the Browns game and I may not even watch it on TV. We've given Ralph a 10 year mulligan. If he can give up on his team, why can't we?

 

PTR

 

 

I'll never give up hope for a better tomorrow, its just not in me, not where the Bills are concerned anyway.

[Fewell733]

I've never been able to even when I couldn't stand the direction the team was going. And I certainly wouldn't this early in this season. I think the sane approach is to root for them to win but just don't freak out if they lose. Others will do that for you.

[Guest dog14787]

I've never been able to even when I couldn't stand the direction the team was going. And I certainly wouldn't this early in this season. I think the sane approach is to root for them to win but just don't freak out if they lose. Others will do that for you.

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how Sunday is going to go because this will be a first for me and while my mind tells me one thing, I don't know for sure if my heart is going to follow through with it.

 

I could be blowing hot air right now.