An end to the myth..."QB is not the problem"

[Alphadawg7]

yeah, except for the fact that he specifically mentioned that JP was part of the equation. Oops! Try again.

 

Thank you...someone who actually read the post...I mean I only said it like 10 times in this thread that it was the overall QB play...

 

I mean, I never said Trent won't be able to take the next step, I said we were lucky to win 7 games each of the last 2 years with the overall production we got from our combined QB effort. But when faced with having to look at the true level of productiion for him, people seem to get butt hurt and scream to high hell that he is the real deal and act like he has played that way to this point which he clearly has not.

 

We will only go as far as he, or whatever QB we have behind center, can take us.

 

I mean 14 wins in 32 games isnt bad considering during that span our QB's only threw 24 TD's and amassed 40 turnovers between Trent and JP combined...add in all of our injuries, and its a minor miracle...

[DazedandConfused]

I am one fan who has little problem with Edwards play which I would categorize after years of too much football watching (at least according to my wife) I think is quite good for a young QB. He does a vet job at reading defenses, makes quick decisions, has a quick release and a very good pocket sense and is a better runner than most expect.

 

The progression in the QB rating in the stats which start this thread (QB rating is far from a perfect numerical indicator of QB quality but though not perfect and in some cases bad it is the best indicator of QB prowess we got and can be a useful tool taking into account the caveat it ain't perfect) is one I would point to Edwards gaining experience as a QB.

 

I expect even better things from him in his third year if he stays healthy.

 

Yet, this is a big BIG IF.

 

I think an objective definition of a player being injury prone is if he misses a game or more of PT to 3 different types of injuries in two seasons. If one accepts this definition, like it or not Edwards is injury prone.

 

I hope he stays healthy and continues to progress in his development as a player. However, the Bills would simply be playing with fire and foolish to bank on this from a youngster. The Bills need to get a back-up QB who is clearly capable of starting and playing credibly in the NFL.

 

This is certainly possible, but is gonna be a problem as the fan base is so bruised with the mistakes led by Ralph starting with his handshake deal where he incorrectly judged how much Kelly had left (even an outsider like me could see it and I was quite surprised when the Bills did not attempt to draft a QB to grow into the role a year earlier than they stretched to take TC and then were forced to rush him into the starter's role before happy feet was trained out of him (if it ever could be). A series of QB assessment and selection errors which mostly end (if not start) with Ralph signing a big check a QB means the fan base simply does not have the patience one usually needs to develop a QB in the NFL.

 

Even worse media idiots like Sully and the WGR boys make way too much money selling airtime and filling column inches not to fan the QB controversy flame and I think this town is gonna have a tough time being a good situation for any QB.

 

This being said, does this let DJ off the hook?

 

Nope.

 

Even if the blame is ultimately on the players, the buck simply stops at the HC. Jauron is ultimately responsible for training the JP he inherited and for picking Edwards. He cannot escape legitimate blame for 3 mediocre seasons in a row.

 

However, he will escape firing because Ralph shows every sign of hating to pay an HC to go to his son's football games and like it or not he extended DJ. Fans prepare yourselves to root for a DJ led Bills for 09 and probably for 10 as well,

 

Schonert is another question. DJ and Ralph deserve the ultimate blame for picking an OC not ready for primetime.

 

If I had to pick one and only one change it actually would be TS. He ain't goin nowhere either but it is even less likely that changes will be made to DJ or voluntarily to TE, but I think poor development of a system for the player talent he has, poor route development so the WRs get no separation (cheat and run pick plays if you have to like the rest of the NFL) an unimaginative play calling are all legit indictments I can see.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You know, I've never made it a secret that I'm a believer...a Trent Edwards believer.

 

Those who've read my posts and actually remember my positions will attest to that fact because those who vouch for themselves are doomed to have no credibility (AD).

 

I believe, maybe hope is a better word, that many of you will also verify that I am a very objective observer. But I will wish that others will testify to that claim. What can I say? Whatever.

 

I really wonder how many of you have watched pro football for a long time and have done so with any sense of perspective. Maybe there's a lot of testosterone not accompanied by much judgment flying around these parts. Maybe there's a lot of young guys with a lot of energy and not too much life experience. That's mostly forgivable.

 

Maybe there's a lot of people on our board with a lot of unhappiness in their lives who allow that unhappiness to color their perspective on how they judge others. That's too bad. Bitterness is a sad trait to carry around and it benefits no one. It's even more sad that some people feel the need to inflict their negativity and anger upon others.

 

I don't know but it seems like there's a lot of unhappy people directing a lot of negative energy towards others whether they be members of the Buffalo Bills organization or other posters.

 

Please remember, we're all here for the same reason.

 

Moreover, I wonder how many of you judge yourselves as harshly as you do your local NFL football players or your fellow posters.

 

This is a guy (getting back to Trent Edwards before I took a philosophical detour) we're debating ad infinitum, ad naseum, who has started 23 games in two seasons for a bad team and who has really represented himself well. He's never done anything to make us feel embarrassed or ashamed. He has struggled as young people do in tough situations. He has acquitted himself above what would be expected. He is certainly a more accomplished person than myself and most of you. I can't believe the guy is only 25 years old. When I think back to when I was that age....

 

Be objective. Where was Troy Aikman after two seasons?

 

Don't let your ego get in the way of objectivity. Those of us who played a lot of sports as young people should be able to win and lose gracefully and graciously. That's the point of sports. You learn to win and lose and deal with it. What's really at stake here? We're all anonymous. Why is it so important to win arguments and slander each other and pro athletes? Especially when we are arguing in the name of negativity, hatred, and pettiness?

[Gary M]

Coaches need to put the players in a position to win

 

The Cleveland game in 07 is a good example.

 

2-10-CLE 15 (:28) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 82-J.Reed pushed ob at CLE 10 for 5 yards (21-B.Pool).

3-5-CLE 10 (:21) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short left to 11-R.Parrish.

4-5-CLE 10 (:15) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to CLE 10 for no gain (51-C.Thompson, 26-S.Jones).

 

Never once threw the ball into the EZ

 

I knew then and there that this team will not contend with DJ as HC.

 

DJ coaches not to lose(not very well mind you) rather than to win.

[ganesh]

Because defense is simpler than offense a team should always have an offensive minded coach. While I like DJ, he is a defensive coorinator and not a head coach. When you are losing games by 3-10 point margins you have to find a way to put those kind of points on the board. A defensive, conservative minded coach just can't do that.

 

The last 7 superbowl winning coaches are:

 

Mike Tomlin - Former DC at Minnesota

Tom Coughlin - Not sure what he was...it has been so long.....Good HC.

Tony Dungy - DC

Bill Cowher - Former LB and STs Coach

Bill Belichek - DC of the SB Winning NY Giants

[bizell]

Be objective. Where was Troy Aikman after two seasons?

 

if you're going to break out comparisons like that, you should know that these two situations are completely different.

 

troy aikman was the #1 draft pick of the 1989 draft. that means dallas was the worst team in the nfl the previous year.

aikman was thrown immediately into the fire on a horrible team. I don't think the 'remember what aikman did his first two years?' is a valid comparison.

[Gordio]

Ok, I am just so baffled by those who claim QB is not the problem and blame everything on DJ, Ralph, Peters, or DE...So I am going to spell it out for you right here in black and white...QB PRODUCTION...of should I say LACK of production has been the biggest factor to our losing seasons the last 2 years. Not saying, DE isnt a major need, or that DJ didnt make mistakes, but no other factor has held this club back as much as QB production...

 

Seriously look at these stats. These are the combined stats of JP and Trent for the last 2 seasons where all the blame is being put on DJ...Once you see these stats, ask yourself "How can a coach win in the NFL with this little producton and insane amount of turnovers from his QB's, the most important position on the field?" Not to mention, this is with our staff being incredibly cautious with our QB's and limiting the risks they take, yet they still turn the ball over an embarrasing amount of times...

 

2007:

Yards: 2834 = 177 yards per game

TD's: 11

INT's 14

TD:INT ratio: .79:1

Sacks: 26

 

2008:

Yards: 3283 = 205 yards per game

TD's: 13

INT's: 15

TD:INT ratio: .87:1

Sacks: 38

 

Summary, in 32 games our QB's have passed for only 24 TD's total (unbelievably pathetic), 29 INT's (awful), have a TD:INT ratio less than 1:1 at .83:1, average ONLY 191.16 yards per game (incredibly pathetic) and have been sacked 64 times (or twice a game, not terrible, but not very good).

 

Also, during that span, Trent has 5 LOST fumbles and JP has 6 LOST fumbles for another 11 turnovers...so TD to turnover ratio plummets to .60:1 when you factor that in...(horrendous)

 

How is DJ supposed to win when in the last 32 games his QB's passed pathetically for:

1. ONLY 24 TD's

2. ONLY 191 yards per game

3. Turned the ball over 40 times with 29 INT's

4. Have TD:INT ratio of a pathetic .83:1

5. Have been sacked 64 times

 

Seriously? How? I know someone is going to argue that the coaching scheme was too predicatable and simple...well what the h*ll do you expect them to do with the passing scheme when the QB's are performing so poorly? Make it more complicated? Everytime they start showing confidence in the QB's and expand, they let the staff down and regress...therefore the scheme stays simple...

 

So, please expalin to me how that HORRIBLE production is less of a factor than our sack total or our coaching staff...

 

The fact we won 7 games both years is a MIRACLE when you also factor in the massive injuries in 2007 and the critical losses of Crowell and Schobel this year as well as the injuries to other players...Even if we had no injuries, winning 7 games either year with this pathetic QB production is still a miracle.

 

Now for you Trent supporters...read carefully...THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF WHAT TRENT WILL BE ONE DAY, ITS A DISCUSSION OF WHAT OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM WAS IN 2007 AND 2008. Potential has ZERO relevance when analyzing actual play on the field as potential is based on something that HAS NOT HAPPENED YET...and this discussion is on what has already happened.

 

 

I tend to agree with you. Edwards has to play better this year. The play of the qb probably cost us at least 5 games this year(1st & 2nd Jets Game, 2nd Miami game, Cleve game & SF game). We even get decent play out of the qb position in those games we probably end up winning 4 out of those 5 games. I think Edwards will get better, maybe it is wishfull thinking on my part but I have seen things in him that makes me believe he is going to be a good qb in this league.

[Cynical]

Who is your magic coach who will not only want to live in Buffalo, but can turn Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Duke Preston, Langston Walker and Roscoe Parrish into NFL caliber players? I say go get Cinderella's fairy godmother and the glass slipper.

 

There is no "magic" coach. Just incompetent and competent ones.

Incompetent coaches accept players like Kelsay and Preston.

Competent ones do not.

 

The argument of "Nobody in the NFL wants to move to or play in Buffalo" is BS.

Buffalo is 1 of 32 opportunities to play in the NFL + a salary cap that makes it impossible for wealthier teams to stockpile players

= players and coaches will come to Buffalo.

 

Otherwise, they will not be part of the NFL.

[VJ91]

First, my name is "BillsVet" because I am a military veteran and obviously a Bills fan. The only season since 1988 that I missed was 2004 when I was deployed....People criticize TE as the checkdown man, and there were guys open, but try playing QB with 6-7 guys in coverage on every down.

 

Great point, Vet! And the Browns were certainly not the only team to flood 6-7 and sometimes 8 men in coverage against Trent. And why? Very simple: The Bills OL, for as huge as they are, were one of the worst run blocking teams in the NFL. If not for the particular specific tackle-breaking talents of both Lynch and Jackson, Edwards' stats would have been even uglier. And oh by the way - tack on rookie OL coach to your list of inexperienced assistant coaches Trent Edwards' team employs!

[bizell]

with no pressure, (which there wasn't in the cleveland game) any QB that's worth anything will be able to find a person open, 6/7/8 people in coverage be damned.

[timba]

Has quarterback play been an issue? Absolutely. Is it the main reason our offense has been suffering? I don't think so.

 

I think our biggest problem has been consistency. It seems on any given play offensive play there is somebody who misses an assignment. Whether it's a lineman missing a block, a receiver not making a hard cut, a qb missing a read, a tight end dropping a pass. It also doesn't help that there were plenty of questionable calls. All of those things go back and reflect on the qb. If the qb is worried about getting whacked on his blind side, he loses confidence that he has time in the pocket (even when he does). A receiver drops a ball or hasn't been getting open all game, the qb isn't going to look that players way as much any more.

 

You hope that your QB is mentally tough enough to forget these things as the game progresses, but after a point (perhaps 7 weeks or so in?) you can't help but start to question the people around you because that's what you've been doing for 6 weeks straight.

 

Is it the QB's fault for getting out of rhythm with the offense? It is. He needs to be able to forget. Should he get more consistency from his team and be able to rely on them to do their jobs? Yes he SHOULD. Has he been able to? No. Where does the blame with that lie? I think some of it comes down to the player drive - but most of it comes from the coaching. They need to make sure the product they are putting on the field is synchronized and it just hasn't been.

[reddogblitz]

He's never done anything to make us feel embarrassed or ashamed. He has struggled as young people do in tough situations. He has acquitted himself above what would be expected. He is certainly a more accomplished person than myself and most of you. I can't believe the guy is only 25 years old. When I think back to when I was that age....

 

Maybe it's just me, but I thought 3 interceptions in the first 4 possessions against Cleveland on Monday Night Football resulting in us being down 16-0 was kind of embarrassing.

 

I too have seen Trent's reading a defense well and quick release etc. That's the Trent I hope to see a lot more of this year if he's the starting QB.

[Alphadawg7]

You know, I've never made it a secret that I'm a believer...a Trent Edwards believer.

 

Those who've read my posts and actually remember my positions will attest to that fact because those who vouch for themselves are doomed to have no credibility (AD).

 

I believe, maybe hope is a better word, that many of you will also verify that I am a very objective observer. But I will wish that others will testify to that claim. What can I say? Whatever.

 

I really wonder how many of you have watched pro football for a long time and have done so with any sense of perspective. Maybe there's a lot of testosterone not accompanied by much judgment flying around these parts. Maybe there's a lot of young guys with a lot of energy and not too much life experience. That's mostly forgivable.

 

Maybe there's a lot of people on our board with a lot of unhappiness in their lives who allow that unhappiness to color their perspective on how they judge others. That's too bad. Bitterness is a sad trait to carry around and it benefits no one. It's even more sad that some people feel the need to inflict their negativity and anger upon others.

 

I don't know but it seems like there's a lot of unhappy people directing a lot of negative energy towards others whether they be members of the Buffalo Bills organization or other posters.

 

Please remember, we're all here for the same reason.

 

Moreover, I wonder how many of you judge yourselves as harshly as you do your local NFL football players or your fellow posters.

 

This is a guy (getting back to Trent Edwards before I took a philosophical detour) we're debating ad infinitum, ad naseum, who has started 23 games in two seasons for a bad team and who has really represented himself well. He's never done anything to make us feel embarrassed or ashamed. He has struggled as young people do in tough situations. He has acquitted himself above what would be expected. He is certainly a more accomplished person than myself and most of you. I can't believe the guy is only 25 years old. When I think back to when I was that age....

 

Be objective. Where was Troy Aikman after two seasons?

 

Don't let your ego get in the way of objectivity. Those of us who played a lot of sports as young people should be able to win and lose gracefully and graciously. That's the point of sports. You learn to win and lose and deal with it. What's really at stake here? We're all anonymous. Why is it so important to win arguments and slander each other and pro athletes? Especially when we are arguing in the name of negativity, hatred, and pettiness?

 

Good post...I know I can be guilty of getting sucked in by some of the posters on here. I am a die hard Bills fan and an even bigger football having had football at major part of my life playing in the Pac 10 through college until injuries ended that run...lol So, my passion for this team and the game can sometimes get the better of me and frustrated at posts on here when posters make it childish and set to do nothing other than mock or discredit others...whether it be our own players, coaches, owners, or fans of this board. Its all good though...

 

This post here, as I have said many times, was not a Trent bash, it was directed to the combined efforts of our QB play over 2 seasons. From playing at a major Pac 10 school that runs a pro style system, I can attest that being as competitive as we have been (only really not in one game, AZ, in 08) with this level of QB production and the rash of injuries to our critical players that we had no depth for, is a minor miracle...I mean to go 7-9 in back to back to season where your turnovers from your QB players are almost double their TD production is quite amazing.

 

Again, I fully support Trent of tomorrow, and hope he comes sooner rather than later, but him and JP were not very good yesterday and that was all my point was. I wasn't a big fan of DJ, but to be honest, his coaching job in 2007 was one of the better ones in the NFL, and yes he made some mistakes in 2008, but given how handicapped he was with inept play down the stretch from JP and Trent, plus the injuries to Schobel, Crowell, Greer, Reed, etc., I am a little more optimistic about him and would like to see what he can do once Trent (if ever) develops and we can get our guys back healthy and add a couple of good players this offseason through draft and free agency.

[Alphadawg7]

Has quarterback play been an issue? Absolutely. Is it the main reason our offense has been suffering? I don't think so.

 

I think our biggest problem has been consistency. It seems on any given play offensive play there is somebody who misses an assignment. Whether it's a lineman missing a block, a receiver not making a hard cut, a qb missing a read, a tight end dropping a pass. It also doesn't help that there were plenty of questionable calls. All of those things go back and reflect on the qb. If the qb is worried about getting whacked on his blind side, he loses confidence that he has time in the pocket (even when he does). A receiver drops a ball or hasn't been getting open all game, the qb isn't going to look that players way as much any more.

 

You hope that your QB is mentally tough enough to forget these things as the game progresses, but after a point (perhaps 7 weeks or so in?) you can't help but start to question the people around you because that's what you've been doing for 6 weeks straight.

 

Is it the QB's fault for getting out of rhythm with the offense? It is. He needs to be able to forget. Should he get more consistency from his team and be able to rely on them to do their jobs? Yes he SHOULD. Has he been able to? No. Where does the blame with that lie? I think some of it comes down to the player drive - but most of it comes from the coaching. They need to make sure the product they are putting on the field is synchronized and it just hasn't been.

 

Agree...very good post...

[Magox]

You know, I've never made it a secret that I'm a believer...a Trent Edwards believer.

 

Those who've read my posts and actually remember my positions will attest to that fact because those who vouch for themselves are doomed to have no credibility (AD).

 

I believe, maybe hope is a better word, that many of you will also verify that I am a very objective observer. But I will wish that others will testify to that claim. What can I say? Whatever.

 

I really wonder how many of you have watched pro football for a long time and have done so with any sense of perspective. Maybe there's a lot of testosterone not accompanied by much judgment flying around these parts. Maybe there's a lot of young guys with a lot of energy and not too much life experience. That's mostly forgivable.

 

Maybe there's a lot of people on our board with a lot of unhappiness in their lives who allow that unhappiness to color their perspective on how they judge others. That's too bad. Bitterness is a sad trait to carry around and it benefits no one. It's even more sad that some people feel the need to inflict their negativity and anger upon others.

 

I don't know but it seems like there's a lot of unhappy people directing a lot of negative energy towards others whether they be members of the Buffalo Bills organization or other posters.

 

Please remember, we're all here for the same reason.

 

Moreover, I wonder how many of you judge yourselves as harshly as you do your local NFL football players or your fellow posters.

 

This is a guy (getting back to Trent Edwards before I took a philosophical detour) we're debating ad infinitum, ad naseum, who has started 23 games in two seasons for a bad team and who has really represented himself well. He's never done anything to make us feel embarrassed or ashamed. He has struggled as young people do in tough situations. He has acquitted himself above what would be expected. He is certainly a more accomplished person than myself and most of you. I can't believe the guy is only 25 years old. When I think back to when I was that age....

 

Be objective. Where was Troy Aikman after two seasons?

 

Don't let your ego get in the way of objectivity. Those of us who played a lot of sports as young people should be able to win and lose gracefully and graciously. That's the point of sports. You learn to win and lose and deal with it. What's really at stake here? We're all anonymous. Why is it so important to win arguments and slander each other and pro athletes? Especially when we are arguing in the name of negativity, hatred, and pettiness?

What a wonderful and thoughtful post!

 

Both on a philosophical level and on football.

 

I would have to say this is one of the best posts that I have read in a while.

 

 

[Adam]

About Anderson, I was speaking of the year he was fantastic and they were 10-6. That's the year he put up the big #'s and the OL was simply dominant. This past season he struggled mightily. His best game came against the NY Giants on Monday Night Football. Other than that, he fell apart totally. Reminded me of JP in '07.

He wasn't fantastic that year- the rest of the team made up for his mistakes just enough to get to 10 wins. I knew he would find a way to screw things up against Cincy and cost them the playoffs.

[2003Contenders]

Let's be honest. Aside from Bledsoe's great first half in 2002, QB has been a problem for the Bills, since Jim Kelly retired. (I am not forgetting about Flutie either; he managed the offense just well enough to win most games when backed by a stellar defense).

 

I have to admit that I found myself drinking the Trent Edwards koolaide after the 5-1 start. He appeared to have turned the corner and was doing more than just managing the game -- he was actually winning it in the 4th quarter. There are a number of theories for his regression, all of which probably bear some merit:

 

1. The severe concussion he received in the Arizona game. This would seem to lose credibility when observing that Trent actually had his best day as a professional in his very next start against the Chargers. Of course, the OL did such a good job that day of protecting him that I don't believe he was even touched. Also, look back at that SD game and observe that as error-free as he played, the Bills' offense didn't exactly explode for 40 points.

 

2. Facing opponents that were familiar with him. Throwing out the Arizona game, in which he played less than a full series, one common denominator with the 4 teams the Bills beat was the fact that none of them had played against Trent before. Beginning with the division free-fall against Miami, all of the opponents had played against him before -- and knew his tendencies. This is not uncommon for a 2nd year player, which is why the notion of a "Sophomore Jinx" exists. It's like a young pitcher in baseball that gets hit hard the 2nd or 3rd time through the batting order.

 

3. The infamous failure against 3-4 defenses. This certainly spelled doom in the division, as all three of the division foes ran this style of defense. I am still not sure why he struggled so much against this base defense. Was it just coincidence? Or some of #2 I listed above as well?

 

4. Coaching let him down. Remember, AVP and Turk were both rookies in their respective roles. Will a year of taking their bumps help them mature in year 2? Or are they just over-matched? Also, by his very nature, Dick Jauron is always going to play it close to the vest. His motto seems to be; Keep it close and try to win in the 4th quarter. That's why you are, unfortunately, never going to see one of his teams leading the league in scoring. Even that explosion against KC had a great deal to do with the aberration of turnovers forced by the defense.

 

5. Key injuries, especially to Josh Reed. When Reed went down, I don't think Trent trusted the other young WRs that had to step up. That was most evident in the Cleveland game, when his confidence seemed shot and he just couldn't pull the trigger.

 

When Bill Parcells was out of football in 2007, he had some great bits of wisdom that he shared on ESPN. Basically he said that a team should have a 4 year cycle plan for a QB. Year 1 you can throw out, since the young man is a rookie and is bound to experience growing pains. Year 2 you need to see positive progression. By Year 3 the QB had better take control of the team -- if not, then you know that you need to find an alternative in Year 4. Obviously the Bills subscribe to this same theory as no QB since Kelly has been a starter for more than 3 years in a row!

 

2009 is Trent's make or break year. If he can't progress beyond what we saw at the BEGINNING of 2008, then we need to think about upgrading the position in 2010.

[Alphadawg7]

Let's be honest. Aside from Bledsoe's great first half in 2002, QB has been a problem for the Bills, since Jim Kelly retired. (I am not forgetting about Flutie either; he managed the offense just well enough to win most games when backed by a stellar defense).

 

I have to admit that I found myself drinking the Trent Edwards koolaide after the 5-1 start. He appeared to have turned the corner and was doing more than just managing the game -- he was actually winning it in the 4th quarter. There are a number of theories for his regression, all of which probably bear some merit:

 

1. The severe concussion he received in the Arizona game. This would seem to lose credibility when observing that Trent actually had his best day as a professional in his very next start against the Chargers. Of course, the OL did such a good job that day of protecting him that I don't believe he was even touched. Also, look back at that SD game and observe that as error-free as he played, the Bills' offense didn't exactly explode for 40 points.

 

2. Facing opponents that were familiar with him. Throwing out the Arizona game, in which he played less than a full series, one common denominator with the 4 teams the Bills beat was the fact that none of them had played against Trent before. Beginning with the division free-fall against Miami, all of the opponents had played against him before -- and knew his tendencies. This is not uncommon for a 2nd year player, which is why the notion of a "Sophomore Jinx" exists. It's like a young pitcher in baseball that gets hit hard the 2nd or 3rd time through the batting order.

 

3. The infamous failure against 3-4 defenses. This certainly spelled doom in the division, as all three of the division foes ran this style of defense. I am still not sure why he struggled so much against this base defense. Was it just coincidence? Or some of #2 I listed above as well?

 

4. Coaching let him down. Remember, AVP and Turk were both rookies in their respective roles. Will a year of taking their bumps help them mature in year 2? Or are they just over-matched? Also, by his very nature, Dick Jauron is always going to play it close to the vest. His motto seems to be; Keep it close and try to win in the 4th quarter. That's why you are, unfortunately, never going to see one of his teams leading the league in scoring. Even that explosion against KC had a great deal to do with the aberration of turnovers forced by the defense.

 

5. Key injuries, especially to Josh Reed. When Reed went down, I don't think Trent trusted the other young WRs that had to step up. That was most evident in the Cleveland game, when his confidence seemed shot and he just couldn't pull the trigger.

 

When Bill Parcells was out of football in 2007, he had some great bits of wisdom that he shared on ESPN. Basically he said that a team should have a 4 year cycle plan for a QB. Year 1 you can throw out, since the young man is a rookie and is bound to experience growing pains. Year 2 you need to see positive progression. By Year 3 the QB had better take control of the team -- if not, then you know that you need to find an alternative in Year 4.

 

2009 is Trent's make or break year. If he can't progress beyond what we saw at the BEGINNING of 2008, then we need to think about upgrading the position in 2010.

 

Excellent post...great assesment, and love the bit about Parcells quote...its the truth...

[DIE HARD 1967]

I like Thurman Thomas's comment on WGR

 

" The only problem with Trent Edwards in Buffalo is......he is not Jim Kelly, and fans will always hold every QB in Buffalo to that standard"

[2003Contenders]

I like Thurman Thomas's comment on WGR

 

" The only problem with Trent Edwards in Buffalo is......he is not Jim Kelly, and fans will always hold every QB in Buffalo to that standard"

 

 

There is some truth to that. Of course, even when Kelly played there were some fans (albeit a minority of them) that wanted to run HIM out of town too! LOL

[stuckincincy]

I like Thurman Thomas's comment on WGR

 

" The only problem with Trent Edwards in Buffalo is......he is not Jim Kelly, and fans will always hold every QB in Buffalo to that standard"

He's right. TE doesn't act like a gunslinger, that will now and then air it out despite the odds against, despite what the sidelines called. I don't get to see many Bills games - but TE's abilities to date, and the Bills' passing strategies seem to be fairly easy to scheme against.

 

Perhaps Thomas delivered a backhand compliment?...dunno.

[The Senator]

Michael Koenen's mom called my brother and told him that the Falcons were going to franchise tag her son because she remembered he was a Bills fan from a chance meeting at the Ferndale Starbucks. I guess there weren't many guys named Oedipus in the phone book.

 

Oedipus was 9th string on the Trojans too.

Funny stuff.

 

Doubt it's gonna earn AlpoDawg's "Great Post" Seal of Approval, but who the f%3K cares? It made me laugh out loud.

[Alphadawg7]

Funny stuff.

 

Doubt it's gonna earn AlpoDawg's "Great Post" Seal of Approval, but who the f%3K cares? It made me laugh out loud.

 

lol, another typical post from the "The Janitor"...it was only a matter of time...surprise it took you this long to chime in, work must have had you all tied up cleaning up a Category 5 mess in the crapper...

[Pneumonic]

I don't care if we put an orange cone at QB! Fix the lines and the rest will follow.

That's not what history (at least recent) shows.

 

For most every unsuccessful team in the sal ca era the common denominator is poor QB play. And the reasons are obvious. Your QB touches the ball on every single play on offense so therefore has the greatest impact on success (or failure) on that side of the ball. Further, getting a top QB is the single toughest chore facing a NFL franchise. Getting a stud OL isn't going to make a lousy QB suddenly good. If it were so then all of those crappy franchises over the years that suffered with lousy QB play would simply have drafted and/or signed top OL and be finished with the losing.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, a top OL can improve upon a QB's performance but it won't polish a QB turd (or orange cone) into a jewel.

[grammer_police]

Oh look, it's another Trent bash thread from Betadog.

 

Yawn.

 

No, it's a well imformed, researched post. Unlike your's. Dick.

[grammer_police]

First, my name is "BillsVet" because I am a military veteran and obviously a Bills fan. The only season since 1988 that I missed was 2004 when I was deployed.

 

You got yourself off to a bad start on this board by quoting sources that you attempted in vain to prove. So much so that it came down to your "proof" being a pilot television show and whether or not it was on IMDB. Pretty lame if you ask me. Your inside source was allegedly Matt Cassel's mother, which isn't much of a source on anyone but her son.

 

Regardless of whether you like it, Trent Edwards is the QB of this team. He doesn't miss on draft picks, he doesn't sign free agents, he doesn't hire lame duck coaches who never should have been hired after failing in Chicago. He doesn't hire OC's who've never been in the position and who never would have been without Buffalo. He doesn't put the game plan together, but he is an integral part of this team.

 

You want a QB with less than 2 seasons of NFL starts to play like an All Pro. When you refer to QB play, you're making a veiled reference against TE and we all know it. In the short time you've been here, you've managed to alienate a lot of people, particularly those who don't wholeheartedly agree with your tired rationale.

 

I'll be critical of TE when he has a bad game. The first quarter of the Cleveland MNF game was about as bad as a QB can play. He had a lack of confidence, but his rookie OC and rookie QB coach did nothing to react to the Browns defense. People criticize TE as the checkdown man, and there were guys open, but try playing QB with 6-7 guys in coverage on every down.

 

I didn't care for the way you introduced yourself onto this board. Get over yourself.

 

So just because you "served" in the war you have a right to be an ass?

I dont "care" for the way you represent the troops.

[tennesseeboy]

Ok...I've given it some thought...IT'S NOT THE QB. Actually its not the TE or defensive rush. Its not the safety or coach. Listen....ITS THE SCOREBOARD!!!! YEAH...after most of the games its the same thing. The frigging scoreboard gives the other team more points. Lets get a new scoreboad and there are eight wins right there.

[The Senator]

Ok...I've given it some thought...IT'S NOT THE QB. Actually its not the TE or defensive rush. Its not the safety or coach. Listen....ITS THE SCOREBOARD!!!! YEAH...after most of the games its the same thing. The frigging scoreboard gives the other team more points. Lets get a new scoreboad and there are eight wins right there.

LOL..great post!

[JPicc2114]

Stats dont always tell the true story dude... What if Trent had some wide receivers?? What if he had a TE?? What if he not gotten a concussion??

 

 

It is multiple factors contributing into a collective effort for Crappiness. Tom Brady wasnt throwing for 50 TDs when Wes Welker and Randy Moss werent there.

 

 

So my suggestion is go find something else to do than to waste your time digging up useless stats that mean nothing.

[thebug]

So just because you "served" in the war you have a right to be an ass?

I dont "care" for the way you represent the troops.

 

 

Just, Just, you say just, show some respect face.

[Big Turk]

well, at least we don't have to put up with JP "Lost"man anymore!!

 

[timba]

That's not what history (at least recent) shows.

 

For most every unsuccessful team in the sal ca era the common denominator is poor QB play. And the reasons are obvious. Your QB touches the ball on every single play on offense so therefore has the greatest impact on success (or failure) on that side of the ball. Further, getting a top QB is the single toughest chore facing a NFL franchise. Getting a stud OL isn't going to make a lousy QB suddenly good. If it were so then all of those crappy franchises over the years that suffered with lousy QB play would simply have drafted and/or signed top OL and be finished with the losing.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, a top OL can improve upon a QB's performance but it won't polish a QB turd (or orange cone) into a jewel.

 

I'm pretty sure that's why they've remained crappy for so long. They keep looking for the one position fix, the QB, when they needed to spend the money and draft picks on decent linemen! For example, you pick up a rookie QB who, over the course of his first nfl season, has less than 2 seconds to throw on every down due to virtually no blocking. He's not going to have very good numbers. It will lead to the defense not respecting the pass because receivers don't have time to get open. Which in turn can lead to defenses stopping the run by packing a bunch in the box as there is no pass offense.

 

That sounds kind of familiar doesn't it? The entire offense seems to be in disarray, but the line is the problem!

 

Poor QB play is a symptom of the bigger problem.

[The Senator]

well, at least we don't have to put up with JP "Lost"man anymore!!

 

hahaha...LOL...great post!

[DC Tom]

Ok...I've given it some thought...IT'S NOT THE QB. Actually its not the TE or defensive rush. Its not the safety or coach. Listen....ITS THE SCOREBOARD!!!! YEAH...after most of the games its the same thing. The frigging scoreboard gives the other team more points. Lets get a new scoreboad and there are eight wins right there.

 

I blame the field. The scoreboard wouldn't have to give the other team more points if the end zones didn't let them in so often.

[SDS]

I blame the field. The scoreboard wouldn't have to give the other team more points if the end zones didn't let them in so often.

 

I'm smelling a lawsuit on grounds of discrimination.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

I blame the field. The scoreboard wouldn't have to give the other team more points if the end zones didn't let them in so often.

When did the jumbotron go in? 1996. When was our last playoff win? 1995.

 

It's the jumbotron.

[Stenbar]

I will go along with part of this..No doubt if we had a Peyton Manning Tom Brady our record would indeed be better..They could overcome the coaching an talent deficiencies of this poorly run franchise..I hope Trent turns into that but the cards are stacked against him..He isnt blessed with superior physical talent and doesnt seem to have the football sense of Peyton..He looks like he is gonna be a average NFL qb who could win with a well oiled machine from top too bottom..Problem is this franchise is a joke from our (lol) hall of fame owner to our idiotic coaching staff include that with our mental midget scouting staff and you have a disaster..Trent cant overcome all that he could howeverstep into a well run team and succeed..

[Sisyphean Bills]

That's not what history (at least recent) shows.

 

For most every unsuccessful team in the sal ca era the common denominator is poor QB play. And the reasons are obvious. Your QB touches the ball on every single play on offense so therefore has the greatest impact on success (or failure) on that side of the ball. Further, getting a top QB is the single toughest chore facing a NFL franchise. Getting a stud OL isn't going to make a lousy QB suddenly good. If it were so then all of those crappy franchises over the years that suffered with lousy QB play would simply have drafted and/or signed top OL and be finished with the losing.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, a top OL can improve upon a QB's performance but it won't polish a QB turd (or orange cone) into a jewel.

So, by this theory Daunte Culpepper is the guy that held the Lions back to 0-16 but was also the guy that was good enough to lead the Vikings to a #1 seed in the salary cap era. Trent Dilfer was the guy that held the Bucs back but led the Ravens to a Super Bowl victory. Brett Favre won a Super Bowl in Green Bay but also held them back in seasons they stunk as he held back the Jets. Jeff Garcia has been to 4 Pro Bowls and led the 49ers to the playoffs as well as Tampa but held back 5 teams including the 49ers and Tampa. Rex Grossman dragged the Bears to a Super Bowl and has also held the Bears back ever since. Neal O'Donnell led the Steelers and held back the Jets. Bledsoe led the Patriots and held back 3 teams including the Patriots. Kurt Warner led the Rams and Cardinals to the Super Bowl but held the New York Giants back. I can go on...

 

Football is a team game. The modern game is about coaching as much as it is about players. In the old NFL, teams lined up 11 on 11 and the better team prevailed. If you had Jim Brown, you had a guy that was physically dominant, you gave him the ball, he ran over everyone, and you won games and championships. Now, talent is much more evenly distributed and evolved. (If you don't believe it look at all the worst-to-firsts, late season runs, and teams that nobody predicts doing very well over the last few years -- indeed, the Bills are the anomaly in that they are one of the few dysfunctional organizations that seems to find a way to blow it each and every year.) Modern football is about match-ups, exploiting weaknesses, game planning, systems, play calling, sets, formations, packages, clock management, proper technique, keeping the team focused. And, guess what? The QB doesn't do any of that. That's why you see guys like Grossman, Johnson, Delhomme, Gannon, Dilfer, Collins, Chandler, McNair, Bledsoe, O'Donnell, and Humphries "drag their teams" all the way to the Super Bowl in the salary cap era. It's why winning teams and franchises that stay in the hunt invest in and pay for good front offices and coaches.

[BillsVet]

So just because you "served" in the war you have a right to be an ass?

I dont "care" for the way you represent the troops.

 

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

 

That's how soldiers handle people like yourself. At least from the top of castles.

[Gordio]

That's not what history (at least recent) shows.

 

For most every unsuccessful team in the sal ca era the common denominator is poor QB play. And the reasons are obvious. Your QB touches the ball on every single play on offense so therefore has the greatest impact on success (or failure) on that side of the ball. Further, getting a top QB is the single toughest chore facing a NFL franchise. Getting a stud OL isn't going to make a lousy QB suddenly good. If it were so then all of those crappy franchises over the years that suffered with lousy QB play would simply have drafted and/or signed top OL and be finished with the losing.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, a top OL can improve upon a QB's performance but it won't polish a QB turd (or orange cone) into a jewel.

 

 

Yep, excellent post. The lack of importance place on the qb position on this board is mind boggling. I have often said, find a good young qb that you could build your team around. But everybody around here likes to make excuses for our dismal qb performances over the years. Oh, we dont have a dominant line, we do not have a top flight #2 receiver, we do not have a back that can rush for 2,000 yards blah, blah, blah. It is a qb driven league. I think we have a good one in Edwards. I hope so because if he plays like he did for the most part in 08, we have no chance of a winning record next year. I have seen enough good things in him to lead me to believe he will improve this year.