Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

[krazykat]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

Last season they changed all of that for Edwards to 3 and 5 step drops. Naturally it reduced sacks, which wrongfully Edwards gets credit for. But the offense didn't get more productive. It actually got less productive.

 

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

[obie_wan]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Neither QB threw enough TDs.

 

Most of this problem was from Fairchild not attacking the endzone and actually trying to throw TDs.

 

From some of blurbs from camp, it sounded like Turk was throwing to the endzone from outside the 20 - which is wher them majority of passiong TDs are generated. The defense is not bunched together and the offesnes can still run most patterns.

[eball]

Neither QB threw enough TDs.

 

Most of this problem was from Fairchild not attacking the endzone and actually trying to throw TDs.

 

From some of blurbs from camp, it sounded like Turk was throwing to the endzone from outside the 20 - which is wher them majority of passiong TDs are generated. The defense is not bunched together and the offesnes can still run most patterns.

Sweet Fancy Moses -- I agree with one of your posts. Wonders never cease.

[Bill from NYC]

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

No, the reason that JP takes sacks is because he is like a chicken without a head. He is not, nor will he ever be a polished qb. You know why? Because he doesn't have it. No, it's worse....he is God awful.

 

He throws both ground balls, and passes in the stands. He obviously has no feel for the game, this after 4 years. Losman had a better OL than RJ, and I know that this is saying a lot. Yet, RJ was more accurate and had far more touch. Losman is a guy with a very good arm, but he sucks.

 

You might finally be convinced of this if God forbid Losman gets to play this season.

[1billsfan]

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes. The only reason that he is still on the team is because he is virtually worthless in terms of a trade. He has lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery Kelly Holcomb. The reason for this is that he is a poor NFL qb, this after being handed the job for no reason.

 

I like him with a dust pan, but he is a horror show with the football. You should give it up my friend.

 

 

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

[ax4782]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

Last season they changed all of that for Edwards to 3 and 5 step drops. Naturally it reduced sacks, which wrongfully Edwards gets credit for. But the offense didn't get more productive. It actually got less productive.

 

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

 

 

This is just incorrect on so many levels. First of all, on those shorter routes, Edwards is clearly the better passer. He is more accurate and has a faster release. I don't even recall how many times I saw JP make one of those five yard out passes hit the turf on a Sunny windless day when the guy was wide open. More often than not, that ball was at the guy's feet.

 

The seven step drop thing is a good prima facie argument, but it is fatally flawed. I looked some of the game tapes I had recorded from last year because I wanted to see if I was just more impressed with Edwards b/c he WASN'T Loss-man, or if there was actually a noticeable difference. Before JP got hurt in week three, he was holding onto the ball WAY too long. Typically, even on a seven step drop the ball should be out of the QB's hands in no more than 3.5 seconds after the drop. JP held onto the ball much longer than that in many scenarios. And more significantly, he took a lot of sacks he didn't have to because he refused to get rid of the football and just throw it away. That shows, IMO a lack of mental awareness.

 

Our O-Line did NOT suck at pass blocking. We only allowed 26 total sacks last season which was good for a top-7 finish. To suggest that our O-Line is the problem is really trying to stretch the blame and make JP look less culpable for his own failings than he actually was. As for your suggestion that Walker, Fowler, Butler and Dockery were terrible pass blockers, I suggest you go back and look at the total number of sacks the four of them gave up COMBINED last year. I think you'll see that you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Walker had one of the best years of his career last season in terms of pass blocking and Dockery-Peters were one of the best left side tandems in football. Fowler did get pushed around and is admittedly the weak link in the O-Line, but even he was decent in pass protection. Butler was not a starter last season, and I did not look up his personal numbers, but the fact is, even he played well enough when he was in there. I can't repeat this enough. OUR O-LINE IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!! Having targets who can make plays is.

 

And Schonert has EXPLICITLY stated that he WILL NOT use a seven step drop this season with TE, because he believes in a faster style passing game. Further, he will mix in a lot more no huddle and muddle-huddle system to throw of D's which also requires a shorter drop and quicker release, something that Losman hasn't proven he can handle in the NFL. He just couldn't hack it as a starter. I don't mind the guy being on the bench in case TE gets hurt, but he just can't hack it in the NFL.

 

I'm sorry that the QB you had so much faith in isn't starting for the Bills. Really, I am. I wanted him to work out too. I don't like using First Round Draft Choices on guys who end up not panning out. That being said, Losman has had more than adequate time to grow as a QB and show that he can win games. He put the ultimatum on himself last year with the JAX game. He said it was do or die for him. We lost. And while we were in it until the Fourth Quarter, I recall the play that ended our chances as being a JP underthrown ball that was picked off. Sorry, but TE is the right guy for the job. I'm tired of QB Carousel. Time to stick with a guy and let him prove himself. JP had his chance. He failed the test. Time to move on.

[thebug]

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

 

 

You really should change your name to 1JPFAN because it is obvious you are not a Bills fan.

[ganesh]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Whether it has been JP at the helm or Edwards has been the starting QB, the Bills often ran on 1st and 2nd downs when they were in the red zone. The bills just couldn't punch it in the endzone the last 3 years...I don't know if it was conservative play calling or horrible line play, the Bills just weren't a very strong red zone team.

 

In Edwards defense, many of Losmans TDs were from outside the redzone on big plays to Evans or Parrish. What this Bills offense really needs is its slot receivers like Josh Reed and TEs to step up and be strong targets in the redzone. If Evans is covered and our QBs are not tall enough to see the short field then they need to go more inside and Reed and Royals need to step up to get open for Edwards to throw. In fact this is a area of strength for Edwards compared to JP. JP is not that accurate to release the ball quickly. Edwards can release the ball accurately and quickly, something that is a must when throwing in the middle of the end zone. Hopefully the presence of Hardy will make a big difference in the redzone.

[ganesh]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

That is completely wrong. In fact once Fairchild took over, the first thing he did was to set JPs footwork correct and also to reduce his drop backs to 3-5. The reason JP got sacked more often was he wanted to make a play downfield and held on to the ball. The main reason Edwards got less sacks was better line play from the OL compared to what JP had to deal with. Edwards gets credit because he rarely holds on to the ball, if he doesn't like the play he throws it away. Plus, Edwards did get the benefit of a good running game with Lynch. The year JP had a good season, McGahee did not even try hard.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

We will see. This line has definitely improved over the season having got the chance to play through the full season as a single unit. They can only get better. The key is really Fowler and Peters coming back good from that groin injury.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

 

Agreed...We definitely need this line to be protecting at the 2nd and 3rd level.

[elegantelliotoffen]

He doesn't have a "strong arm" but his arm is strong enough.

[The Senator]

So I propose letting this Edwards' lack of arm strength talk die down.

I thought it had, 'til I saw this thread.

[Ramius]

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes. The only reason that he is still on the team is because he is virtually worthless in terms of a trade. He has lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery Kelly Holcomb. The reason for this is that he is a poor NFL qb, this after being handed the job for no reason.

 

I like him with a dust pan, but he is a horror show with the football. You should give it up my friend.

 

Stay classy supposed "bills fans."

 

Its pretty bad when Edwards is the unquestioned starter and people still feel the need to fling childish personal insults at the backup because he didnt produce as hoped.

[K-9]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Your point? The one about how the QB MUST be able to get the ball into the endzone? That point? My God, I've finally seen the light! I NEVER knew that about football. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Nobody is enamored with Edwards as you put it. It's just obvious he is light years ahead of where JP was at the same stage of their careers. He may end up sucking even worse in the long run. Many of us have readily stated that over and over and over again around here.

 

Yes he has flaws. Most QBs do. Especially young ones going into their first full season as a starter. The question is: do his strengths outweigh his drawbacks? At this point the resounding answer is yes. At least to those who aren't blinded by their refusal to see that the JP experiment is over.

 

If you judge his low TD percentage as a "flaw" in his game then I suggest you look at the history of rookie NFL QBs. Not first year starters, actual rookies. But first you will have to let go of the absurd theory that "throwing" TD passes is strictly a function of QB play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Stay classy supposed "bills fans."

 

Its pretty bad when Edwards is the unquestioned starter and people still feel the need to fling childish personal insults at the backup because he didnt produce as hoped.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

 

You really don't expect more do you?

[K-9]

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

 

Trent Edwards will make you look silly for doubting him. Does that make you feel better?

 

Of course we have faith in his abilities. I once had faith in JP's but that faith was tampered by the knowledge that, even in his 3rd year as a pro and his first full season as starter, he was in a "developmental" stage and he would have me pulling my hair out from time to time. But I was willing to accept that because that's the process with young QBs. As long as he was improving, not making the SAME mistakes over and over, and maturing into better a QB, I was willing to be patient. It's been like that ever since I can remember for any young QB the Bills have had.

 

However, one has to draw the line when they see clear signs of REGRESSION. This was patently obvious as early as the later stages of '06 and even more so in training camp last year. He got WORSE.

 

The very same thing could happen to Edwards. And that doesn't make me "nervous" at all. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[1billsfan]

Your point? The one about how the QB MUST be able to get the ball into the endzone? That point? My God, I've finally seen the light! I NEVER knew that about football. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Nobody is enamored with Edwards as you put it. It's just obvious he is light years ahead of where JP was at the same stage of their careers. He may end up sucking even worse in the long run. Many of us have readily stated that over and over and over again around here.

 

Yes he has flaws. Most QBs do. Especially young ones going into their first full season as a starter. The question is: do his strengths outweigh his drawbacks? At this point the resounding answer is yes. At least to those who aren't blinded by their refusal to see that the JP experiment is over.

 

If you judge his low TD percentage as a "flaw" in his game then I suggest you look at the history of rookie NFL QBs. Not first year starters, actual rookies. But first you will have to let go of the absurd theory that "throwing" TD passes is strictly a function of QB play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

[thebug]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

 

 

Yah and then there are azzholes like who would love nothing better than to witness Edwards fail, just so you can bet right.

[K-9]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

 

Clearly nervous and it's starting to show? WTF are you talking about? I think you're confusing me with somebody else. Either that or you just didn't read my post. At any rate, from the tone of your ramblings and constant need to put words in my mouth to support your position in the debate, it's clear to me that the nerves ARE clearly starting to show. Don't let 'em see you sweat, eh #1?

 

Quick question: can you PROVE that Trent's low TD % is his flaw alone? Can you support that absurd theory with evidence that he missed all sorts of wide open receivers for instance? Or that everyone, on EVERY play, executed his assignment perfectly with the exception of Edwards? I could go on and on, but you get the point. I think.

 

Your crusade is making you look like one of the least knowledgeable fans I've ever come across.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season.

The red zone is the money zone. If Trent Edwards is to emerge as a big-time, big-money, playoff team leading, NFL QB, he absolutely positively has to figure out how to get it done in the money zone.

Quick question: can you PROVE that Trent's low TD % is his flaw alone? Can you support that absurd theory with evidence that he missed all sorts of wide open receivers for instance? Or that everyone, on EVERY play, executed his assignment perfectly with the exception of Edwards? I could go on and on, but you get the point. I think.

Good point. Offensive success depends on more than just the QB doing his job correctly.

 

This brings to mind a QB named Doug Flutie, though. Flutie was a QB with some defects to his own game, who was not surrounded with superstars -- his OL was pretty bad actually, I lost count of how many times he wheeled around in the backfield running for his life in games. But, he often was able to wing it despite all the break downs and make things happen enough to move the sticks. With a stud defense, that was good enough to make the Bills a playoff team -- the last playoff team that we've enjoyed.

[Flbillsfan#1]

You really should change your name to 1JPFAN because it is obvious you are not a Bills fan.

Just because he believes in JP he is not a Bills Fan? :D

[thebug]

Just because he believes in JP he is not a Bills Fan?

 

 

No but just like you he crusades against Trent.....

[Flbillsfan#1]

No but just like you he crusades against Trent.....

Just like you crusade against JP. Does that make you not a Bills fan? At the end of the day I know ALL of us Bills fans will root for and support the QB on the field playing for the Bills.

[thebug]

Just like you crusade against JP. Does that make you not a Bills fan? At the end of the day I know ALL of us Bills fans will root for and support the QB on the field playing for the Bills.

 

 

Yes but my dislike for JP is based on history and I cheered for him and wanted him to do well when he was in there, there is a difference. Just like any other player that continued to fail for the Bills, I would want them out as well.....but to continually bash a young QB before he has had a real opportunity to show what he can do and to hope he fails (or gets injured)so your guy gets yet another chance is bull sh--.

[BADOLBILZ]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

[Adam]

No but just like you he crusades against Trent.....

Both are the result of stupid impatient fans, and a dumber front office that even cares what those fans think. JP was a 5ear project when we drafted him, lost his first year to injury after getting hit by a guy that wanted to prove he was a real NFL player. He never should have stepped onto the field in year 2, because WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT BLEDSOE. But, no- the fans would have rather had Hank Bullough come back than keep Bledsoe, so we lied to ourselves and said that we don't care if JP is ready or not.

 

Amazingly enough, JP had moderate success, despite being forced onto the field long before he was ready. Then, after a few years of development on a team so horrendous it could bring tears to your eyes, we end his development, and THROW A ROOKIE out there. Now people are complaining about him already. He shouldn't have played as much as he did last year- way too soon. Fans will be turning on him soon, and we will be taking a 1st round QB again.

 

And don't give me any garbage about not being able to develop QB's anymore. Look at what Jacksonville did with David Garrard. Look at Hasselback in Seattle. Look at how Eli Manning struggled for years. Impatient fans should be either ignored or mocked- they will keep shelling out the dough and coming to the games anyways.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Yes but my dislike for JP is based on history and I cheered for him and wanted him to do well when he was in there, there is a difference. Just like any other player that continued to fail for the Bills, I would want them out as well.....but to continually bash a young QB before he has had a real opportunity to show what he can do and to hope he fails (or gets injured)so your guy gets yet another chance is bull sh--.

I have not seen ONE post that said they HOPED Trent fails or is injured. That is simply your interpretation of someone saying they THOUGHT Trent would fail or get injured. It would be especially foolish to HOPE Trent fails, because JP will not be a Bill in 09 putting the Bills back to square one if he does fail. It is obvious there is a difference of opinion about the abilities of BOTH QB's on this board, but WE ARE ALL BILLS FANS.

[Captain Hindsight]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

Excellent post

[ieatcrayonz]

Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

 

Live Recording.

 

 

Fooled again. I forgot about this thread and again thought it was about proxy morons.

[Bill from NYC]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

 

Sound the horns! This is a rare moment in which I vehemently disagree with you. Actually I am glad. To agree lockstep with any one person's views would damage my credibility as an objective fan.

 

Badol, allow me to point to Matt Hasselback. I think that Trent has at least as much arm strength as him, and has a chance to be as, or even more accurate. Plus, Trent seems taller, and is filling out as well.

I first saw MH in a preseason game as a rookie out of BC with Green Bay. Immediately, I noticed a quick decision making process, accuracy, and that dreaded word....poise. My first look at Edwards was the Detroit preseason game, and I saw the same exact stuff. It was the freaking same!

Do I claim to be as qualified as you in terms of rating qbs? No, not even close. That said, I do have some experience at watching these guys, and I am thinking that Trent will at some point be a good enough qb to take a football team to a superbowl. In fact, I think he can be as good as Eli (not Peyton) Manning. Why not?

 

If JP starts, this team is done imo. This is not a prediction that makes me happy. JP has the arm. So what? Trent, as a rookie, was good at all the things JP sucks at doing. Say what you will about JP's skill set, and I will make the case that RJ had more skills. Jeff George threw a faster, longer ball than Bledsoe or Marino, let alone JP. Using my same experience at watching qbs, I don't think that Losman will ever be smart nor consistent enough to get it done. You saw me. I was at RWS with you rooting for him, but enough is enough.

 

In any event, this is one that I need to be "right" about. If he is as good as I think he is and the OL stays healthy, I think we will be in the playoffs this season, and I am thinking of ways to get "permission" from Millie to let me go up there if it happens. How cool would that be?

 

In any event,

[Flbillsfan#1]

Sound the horns! This is a rare moment in which I vehemently disagree with you. Actually I am glad. To agree lockstep with any one person's views would damage my credibility as an objective fan.

 

Badol, allow me to point to Matt Hasselback. I think that Trent has at least as much arm strength as him, and has a chance to be as, or even more accurate. Plus, Trent seems taller, and is filling out as well.

I first saw MH in a preseason game as a rookie out of BC with Green Bay. Immediately, I noticed a quick decision making process, accuracy, and that dreaded word....poise. My first look at Edwards was the Detroit preseason game, and I saw the same exact stuff. It was the freaking same!

Do I claim to be as qualified as you in terms of rating qbs? No, not even close. That said, I do have some experience at watching these guys, and I am thinking that Trent will at some point be a good enough qb to take a football team to a superbowl. In fact, I think he can be as good as Eli (not Peyton) Manning. Why not?

 

If JP starts, this team is done imo. This is not a prediction that makes me happy. JP has the arm. So what? Trent, as a rookie, was good at all the things JP sucks at doing. Say what you will about JP's skill set, and I will make the case that RJ had more skills. Jeff George threw a faster, longer ball than Bledsoe or Marino, let alone JP. Using my same experience at watching qbs, I don't think that Losman will ever be smart nor consistent enough to get it done. You saw me. I was at RWS with you rooting for him, but enough is enough.

 

In any event, this is one that I need to be "right" about. If he is as good as I think he is and the OL stays healthy, I think we will be in the playoffs this season, and I am thinking of ways to get "permission" from Millie to let me go up there if it happens. How cool would that be?

 

In any event,

I HOPE you are correct in your assessment, but right now I have to agree with BADOL. Trent will have to find the end zone in 08 for the Bills to make the playoffs in my opinion.

[C.Biscuit97]

Both are the result of stupid impatient fans, and a dumber front office that even cares what those fans think. JP was a 5ear project when we drafted him, lost his first year to injury after getting hit by a guy that wanted to prove he was a real NFL player. He never should have stepped onto the field in year 2, because WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT BLEDSOE. But, no- the fans would have rather had Hank Bullough come back than keep Bledsoe, so we lied to ourselves and said that we don't care if JP is ready or not.

 

With the amount of money you pay rookie 1st round QBs, there is no such thing as a 5 year project at QB. You simply don't have that luxury anymore. As for Bledsoe, I agree the time would have been much better off with him as a starter and Losman sitting on the bench, but how much better? I think 9-7 is probably the best record Bledsoe could lead a team to at that point in his career. It was time for a change and you can only learn so much from the sidelines.

 

Amazingly enough, JP had moderate success, despite being forced onto the field long before he was ready. Then, after a few years of development on a team so horrendous it could bring tears to your eyes, we end his development, and THROW A ROOKIE out there. Now people are complaining about him already. He shouldn't have played as much as he did last year- way too soon. Fans will be turning on him soon, and we will be taking a 1st round QB again.

 

Let's be honest. Losman was probably the worst starting QB in the league his first season. At teh same time, he should have been given more starts to gain valuable playing time. However, the coaches were trying to say their jobs and risked losing the team if they kept JP in there. Holcomb, with as many shortcomings as he had, gave the team a better shot to win. And for the record that team wasn't that bad. In fact, they were coming off a 9-7 season and were a trendy playoff pick. I don't know why you insist on getting that wrong.

 

Also, there are only a select few who are complaining about Trent. You're right though. He shouldn't have played last year. But he was forced to by Losman's regression. The coaches gave JP every opportunity to seize his job back and he failed badly. But I don't think there is any question that Edwards is miles ahead of where JP was at similar stages in their careers.

 

And don't give me any garbage about not being able to develop QB's anymore. Look at what Jacksonville did with David Garrard. Look at Hasselback in Seattle. Look at how Eli Manning struggled for years. Impatient fans should be either ignored or mocked- they will keep shelling out the dough and coming to the games anyways.

 

Sorry but your facts are completely wrong on this. Jacksonville didn't draft Garrad to be a starter. In fact, they thought so much about his ability after drafting him in the 4th round, they drafted Leftwich with a 1st round pick the next season. He got his job because Leftwich flamed out (sound familiar?) The same thing with Hasselback. The Packers didn't spend a 7th round pick on Hasselback expecting him to beat out Farve for a starting job. In fact for most of his time there, he was a 3rd string QB. As for Manning, it is a completely different story. For 1, despite how inconsistent he has been, he still lead the Giants to 3 playoff berths. Also, if he was the #1 overall pick and his last name wasn't Manning, he would have been benched long before the Super Bowl.

[C.Biscuit97]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

 

Again, guys like Montana and Garcia for example, didn't have cannons. Smart QBs get the ball to their playmakers in the best position for them to gain yards after the catch. If Edwards hits Parrish on a 10 yard crossing route and PArrish is able to gain 20 yards after the catch, it is still a 30 yard pass play.

[Gordio]

Clearly nervous and it's starting to show? WTF are you talking about? I think you're confusing me with somebody else. Either that or you just didn't read my post. At any rate, from the tone of your ramblings and constant need to put words in my mouth to support your position in the debate, it's clear to me that the nerves ARE clearly starting to show. Don't let 'em see you sweat, eh #1?

 

Quick question: can you PROVE that Trent's low TD % is his flaw alone? Can you support that absurd theory with evidence that he missed all sorts of wide open receivers for instance? Or that everyone, on EVERY play, executed his assignment perfectly with the exception of Edwards? I could go on and on, but you get the point. I think.

 

Your crusade is making you look like one of the least knowledgeable fans I've ever come across.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

I do not know why you continuosly try to reason & use logic with this guy. He is not going to change his mind no matter what you say. He is going to be disgruntled & miserable & bitter all year because Losman is not going to get his 5th chance at the starting job. It is like talking to a wall. It is too bad too that he feels this way because I really think the bills are going to do some great things this year & he is going to be too bitter too enjoy it.

 

I will say this one more time. Alot of the success of the season really depends on Edwards. He needs to play better then he did last year(which common sense tells you he will). If he plays the same as he did last year the bills will not make the playoffs again. I think he is really positioned to do some good things this year. All things considered he had he played well last year given the fact that he was a 1st year rookie qb. I think he has the makeup to progress, not regress, Iam really not concerned about his arm strength, he could make all the throws he has too, & I lovew his quick release & his mental makeup for the game. I think/hope he is going to be fine.

[C.Biscuit97]

Sound the horns! This is a rare moment in which I vehemently disagree with you. Actually I am glad. To agree lockstep with any one person's views would damage my credibility as an objective fan.

 

Badol, allow me to point to Matt Hasselback. I think that Trent has at least as much arm strength as him, and has a chance to be as, or even more accurate. Plus, Trent seems taller, and is filling out as well.

I first saw MH in a preseason game as a rookie out of BC with Green Bay. Immediately, I noticed a quick decision making process, accuracy, and that dreaded word....poise. My first look at Edwards was the Detroit preseason game, and I saw the same exact stuff. It was the freaking same!

Do I claim to be as qualified as you in terms of rating qbs? No, not even close. That said, I do have some experience at watching these guys, and I am thinking that Trent will at some point be a good enough qb to take a football team to a superbowl. In fact, I think he can be as good as Eli (not Peyton) Manning. Why not?

 

If JP starts, this team is done imo. This is not a prediction that makes me happy. JP has the arm. So what? Trent, as a rookie, was good at all the things JP sucks at doing. Say what you will about JP's skill set, and I will make the case that RJ had more skills. Jeff George threw a faster, longer ball than Bledsoe or Marino, let alone JP. Using my same experience at watching qbs, I don't think that Losman will ever be smart nor consistent enough to get it done. You saw me. I was at RWS with you rooting for him, but enough is enough.

 

In any event, this is one that I need to be "right" about. If he is as good as I think he is and the OL stays healthy, I think we will be in the playoffs this season, and I am thinking of ways to get "permission" from Millie to let me go up there if it happens. How cool would that be?

 

In any event,

 

 

Great post. It takes more than physical skills to suceed in the NFL as a QB.

[1billsfan]

I do not know why you continuosly try to reason & use logic with this guy. He is not going to change his mind no matter what you say. He is going to be disgruntled & miserable & bitter all year because Losman is not going to get his 5th chance at the starting job. It is like talking to a wall. It is too bad too that he feels this way because I really think the bills are going to do some great things this year & he is going to be too bitter too enjoy it.

 

I will say this one more time. Alot of the success of the season really depends on Edwards. He needs to play better then he did last year(which common sense tells you he will). If he plays the same as he did last year the bills will not make the playoffs again. I think he is really positioned to do some good things this year. All things considered he had he played well last year given the fact that he was a 1st year rookie qb. I think he has the makeup to progress, not regress, Iam really not concerned about his arm strength, he could make all the throws he has too, & I lovew his quick release & his mental makeup for the game. I think/hope he is going to be fine.

 

I like how you try tearing me a new one and then proceed to agree with the point I've been making regarding Edwards and him needing to play better this year. I would be more than happy to say I was wrong and see the Bills make the playoffs. The sorry thing is that once someone dares to question the great almighty and expose a very weak area in his game, you and your friend are the ones who lose all reason and logic and feel the need to bust on Losman as if it would hurt my feelings. That's weird. Why can't you take any criticism of Edwards unless it comes from you yourself? Losman's on the bench, you guys are the ones that are still fixated on the QB debate. I'm past it, I want our starting QB Trent Edwards to throw touchdown passes this year. If that's unreasonable or illogical then I'm sorry I can't help you.

[MDH]

Sound the horns! This is a rare moment in which I vehemently disagree with you. Actually I am glad. To agree lockstep with any one person's views would damage my credibility as an objective fan.

 

Badol, allow me to point to Matt Hasselback. I think that Trent has at least as much arm strength as him, and has a chance to be as, or even more accurate. Plus, Trent seems taller, and is filling out as well.

I first saw MH in a preseason game as a rookie out of BC with Green Bay. Immediately, I noticed a quick decision making process, accuracy, and that dreaded word....poise. My first look at Edwards was the Detroit preseason game, and I saw the same exact stuff. It was the freaking same!

Do I claim to be as qualified as you in terms of rating qbs? No, not even close. That said, I do have some experience at watching these guys, and I am thinking that Trent will at some point be a good enough qb to take a football team to a superbowl. In fact, I think he can be as good as Eli (not Peyton) Manning. Why not?

 

If JP starts, this team is done imo. This is not a prediction that makes me happy. JP has the arm. So what? Trent, as a rookie, was good at all the things JP sucks at doing. Say what you will about JP's skill set, and I will make the case that RJ had more skills. Jeff George threw a faster, longer ball than Bledsoe or Marino, let alone JP. Using my same experience at watching qbs, I don't think that Losman will ever be smart nor consistent enough to get it done. You saw me. I was at RWS with you rooting for him, but enough is enough.

 

In any event, this is one that I need to be "right" about. If he is as good as I think he is and the OL stays healthy, I think we will be in the playoffs this season, and I am thinking of ways to get "permission" from Millie to let me go up there if it happens. How cool would that be?

 

In any event,

 

How did JP even come into the discussion here? Bado was speaking strictly about Edwards. Bado brought up several solid points that had nothing to do with JP and you didn't address any of those but instead resorted to the typical Edwards vs. JP post that we've seen a thousand times.

 

And as for Hasselback's arm - he can make every throw needed, the same can not yet be said about Edwards. He floats the out patterns and (as Bado has stated) has way too much loft on his long ball, which wouldn't necessarily be an issue if he could mussel it down field farther too allow for the extra time it takes to get there (alla Jeff Blake). Arm strength is definitely an overrated aspect of the QB position but only if the QB can make ALL the necessary throws. We'll see if Edwards can do that this year.

[Bill from NYC]

How did JP even come into the discussion here? Bado was speaking strictly about Edwards. Bado brought up several solid points that had nothing to do with JP and you didn't address any of those but instead resorted to the typical Edwards vs. JP post that we've seen a thousand times.

 

>>>> Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season.<<<<

 

Yeah....OK.

[C.Biscuit97]

How did JP even come into the discussion here? Bado was speaking strictly about Edwards. Bado brought up several solid points that had nothing to do with JP and you didn't address any of those but instead resorted to the typical Edwards vs. JP post that we've seen a thousand times.

 

And as for Hasselback's arm - he can make every throw needed, the same can not yet be said about Edwards. He floats the out patterns and (as Bado has stated) has way too much loft on his long ball, which wouldn't necessarily be an issue if he could mussel it down field farther too allow for the extra time it takes to get there (alla Jeff Blake). Arm strength is definitely an overrated aspect of the QB position but only if the QB can make ALL the necessary throws. We'll see if Edwards can do that this year.

 

 

I think Bill was stating that Hasselback improved his arm strength since his rookie year. I think they are very similar QBs. If Hasselback had that much better of an arm than Edwards, he won't have been a 7th round pick.

[Bill from NYC]

And as for Hasselback's arm - he can make every throw needed

 

This is empty rhetoric. Every throw needed? What does that mean? Can he toss a 40 yard out pattern? Can he zip it in between 2 defenders at 50 yards? Can he throw a 60 yard bomb without much air? Of course he can't. Neither could Steve Young of Joe Montana?

 

You are simply looking to criticize Edwards, and wincing in agony whan someone compares him favorable to Losman, who isn't good in his 5th year.

[keepthefaith]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

 

Well said. You hit the nail on the head when you mention teams defending him short, blitzing and forcing him to beat them deep. People wonder why the Bills get no productivity from the tight end, well, he's blocking on many pass plays. Trent's tendency to throw short along with an offensive game plan that stresses the check down plays right into the hands of the defense. The Bills are not hard to game plan against, and more defenders close to the line of scrimmage hurts the running game as well. Add to this that Trent is basically a pocket passer and the defense can also rush the passer knowing where he will likely be in his drop. The Bills counter? 3 step drops, short stuff, rarely play action, running against 8 defenders near the line of scrimmage. Who's pressuring who? The opposing defense is pressuring the Bills' offense more often than not.