McDermott still in over his head

[notpolian]

Hey, if McDermott had risked a timeout on a challenge, he might not even able to take those critical defensive timeouts.  At least this week they didn't have to call one for an extra point.

[hondo in seattle]

41 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

I have such a problem with this.  All of us could see a tv replay that showed it wasn’t a catch BEFORE the Patriots flew up to the line to snap the ball.  I was screaming at my TV for Sean to throw the flag.  That’s fine that Sean himself couldn’t see the replay, but do we not pay people to do this exact job, and to advise our head coach?  Someone should’ve been in Sean’s ear right away telling him “that’s not a catch.”

Someone didn’t do their job. 

We do have a guy - a former ref as a matter of fact.  And he didn't scream in Sean's ear.  Apparently, it wasn't obvious to him either.  If I was Sean, I'd trust the ex-ref too.   

[folz]

28 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

As much as we can criticize him anyway because it’s the first half just throw the flag, I’m actually pretty curious on his postgame statement.  Up until this year you were kinda boned as an away team and forced to rely on broadcast angles which were significantly delayed.  If you gave mcd your YouTube tv login it really wouldn’t help him much on a play the pats are rushing to the line in that scenario. 

 

this year both teams are SUPPOSED to get all those replay angles from the Hawkeye camera instantly but I wonder if that’s only certain games or didn’t happen in this case or what.  Knowing NEs sordid history with one known cheater on the staff still I bet those expanded replay angles never showed up 😂. The whole expanded replay camera stuff was not well explained at all 

 

the way mcd worded it he may have been taking a shot at the leagues new replay system not working but I could be wrong 

 

I was thinking a bit along the same lines. I'm totally speculating here, but can't help at least entertaining these thoughts...

 

1. The play was way down field. No one on the Bills sideline had a good view of it---not even the cb covering the play could be sure.

 

2. Replay Assist: I'm still not sure about this whole replay assist thing. It seems very arbitrary when they decide to use it or not. They will overturn one call in a critical game and then later in that same game on another bad call, there is not a peep from replay assist. Unfortunately, to me, it seems like one more way the NFL can steer games rather than a system to make things more fair (at least the way it is being employed currently).

 

Now, none of that matters in this particular scenario except for the fact that if replay assist is supposed to overturn obvious missed calls and they don't overturn a play (the Boutte catch), then as a coach you are thinking it is a 50/50 call at best, otherwise they would have automatically turned it over. And if it is truly 50/50, then likely the play on the field will stand (there won't be enough evidence to overturn it). So, unless your team gets a better view and says wait they should have overturned that, throw the flag...then maybe as a coach you think it isn't worth it---probably won't win it...because some ref (replay assist) has already looked at it and deemed not to overturn it automatically (must not be obvious). I think the system actually makes it harder on the coaches and doesn't seem to be employed consistently.

 

3. We were in Foxboro. Kraft, Vrabel, McDaniels, and others were all part of the Pats dynasty (this is not an entirely new atmosphere, there are still ties to the old regime---in the organization, coaching staff, and stadium crew). Do we really put it past New England for their stadium crew to delay the Bills team getting the replays a few seconds, or not running the clock just before the half to make sure their team has a couple of extra seconds, or enough time for a FG, or whatever? Not saying I know how it works (who is to provide the replays and how), but in the past in NE, we have had issues with headsets and radios, the clock has malfunctioned a number of times before, etc. Not a full blown accusation here, but my Spidey senses are tingling.

 

4. A team rushing to the line to get off another play is not an admission of guilt (meaning that they know for a fact that the play wasn't good). Teams do this anytime a play might be close. I have seen the Bills do it when they play would have stood under replay anyhow. Sometimes neither team can be sure in those first few seconds, so you rush the team up just in case. A team could be rushing to the line, so you throw your flag thinking they know something, and then you still lose the challenge. It is not a determinative factor if the other team is rushing the next play.

 

 

[NoSaint]

50 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Don't get me wrong, I would have challenged the play based on what I saw - but I had the benefit of the replays. If the Bills truly didn't have access to a replay in time, some in here are arguing that McDermott should have just challenged due to the context of the play or the body language of the Patriots, because the only risk was the loss of a first half time out. I am simply pointing out that the risk was much larger than just a first half time out.

I mean your option there was do it or don’t without perfect info. 
 

ultimately would you risk a challenge to possibly create a turnover out of a diving catch from a so-so receiver where his own team isn’t confident. 
 

I understand the risk and think you have to do it 

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

We do have a guy - a former ref as a matter of fact.  And he didn't scream in Sean's ear.  Apparently, it wasn't obvious to him either.  If I was Sean, I'd trust the ex-ref too.   

he may never get an actual look at it in a hurry up. 
 

At some point this is the math of the risk vs reward and not an evaluation of whether you know the ball moved for sure

 

very low risk, and the reward is a game changing play 

Edited 4 hours ago by NoSaint

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Can I ask a question? Why is he getting crucified when New York should have buzzed in and overturned that on its own, without him needing to challenge? On nearly every questionable play where the offense is rushing, they almost always buzz down.

 

 

I am not defending McDermott as he should have challenged it. However what’s with the league having very inconsistent replay assist? If there is assist from NY it should be applied evenly and consistently, not randomly. Wait until the current inconsistency blows a Las Vegas line and signicantg money is lost by Vegas. There will be a sudden change, mark it.

[Bruffalo]

I haven't read the whole thread so this was probably pointed out earlier. 

 

The real culprit on the no challenge is whoever decided that replay assist wasn't going to be used in that instance, when it absolutely should have. The uneven application of the rules, even from the nebulous sky judges in the NFL, is a major issue.

 

I don't really blame McDermott as much as I blame the NFL for its uneven use of technology to officiate games.

[BuffaloBill]

Just now, Bruffalo said:

I haven't read the whole thread so this was probably pointed out earlier. 

 

The real culprit on the no challenge is whoever decided that replay assist wasn't going to be used in that instance, when it absolutely should have. The uneven application of the rules, even from the nebulous sky judges in the NFL, is a major issue.

 

I don't really blame McDermott as much as I blame the NFL for its uneven use of technology to officiate games.

  Amen

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

19 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

I haven't read the whole thread so this was probably pointed out earlier. 

 

The real culprit on the no challenge is whoever decided that replay assist wasn't going to be used in that instance, when it absolutely should have. The uneven application of the rules, even from the nebulous sky judges in the NFL, is a major issue.

 

I don't really blame McDermott as much as I blame the NFL for its uneven use of technology to officiate games.

A good clue for replay assist is when the other team is sprinting to avoid the replay.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

wait

 

you thought yesterday was an example of some great defensive performance?

The first half was beyond abysmal. The second half was a defensive masterpiece. The long run by Henderson and your attempt to put words in my mouth notwithstanding. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

The first half was beyond abysmal. The second half was a defensive masterpiece. The long run by Henderson and your attempt to put words in my mouth notwithstanding. 

nobody gets credit for being terrible one half and acceptable for one half except the Buffalo Bills defense 

 

simply amazing

[bigK14094]

Yup., a hesitency to challenge so early in the game.  If you don't have stadium access to replay, leave a staff member in a motel nearby, have him watch the game and connect by phone.  McD not on top of this situation.  Not having access is McD's fault!!!

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

ok

 

we can say ridiculous things like this because we have allen. but he is an anomaly. more proof bills fans do not have realistic expectations 

 

for normal teams 7 points on the first drive of the game is HUGE. similarly, getting a stop on the opening drive is basically stealing a possession because you're getting the second half kickoff. 

Insane to me this post is catching eyeroll grief lol

[GoBills808]

Just now, BillsShredder83 said:

Insane to me this post is catching eyeroll grief lol

not really

 

longer i post here the less i respect people's football chops

[Livinginthepast]

In McD's defense it looked like a really good catch so I dont fault him for being slow on the draw when it came to a challenge flag. In addition the replay assist should have paused it before the snap as they did for the Bills non catch. What really irked me about McD's slowness was that they should have had someone go down and fake an injury when it was obvious that the something might have been up with the call. The whole Pats team knew they had to rush the snap and that should have been the obvious giveaway that something was up with the previous play. Because it was so early in the game, the Bills player feigning an injury would have not resulted in a time out being forced on the Bills. So why arent the players instructed to do this in that situation? or maybe the Bills defensive coaches could buzz in to the headset of the defensive captain to tell them to do that. (They can contact the helmet headsets on defense cant they?). Having a player go down with a "cramp" etc at that moment would have allowed the time for the idiots in the replay assist to review the play or given the Bills time to think about a challenge. 

[WotAGuy]

McDermott’s voice cracked twice during his postgame speech. Lombardi’s voice never cracked. The guy’s a loser I tell ya. 

[Sweats]

10 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Yup., a hesitency to challenge so early in the game.  If you don't have stadium access to replay, leave a staff member in a motel nearby, have him watch the game and connect by phone.  McD not on top of this situation.  Not having access is McD's fault!!!

 

 

 

 

Yep, you cracked the case wide open there.

[Jimmy Harris 69]

2 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

McD deserves a lot of criticism for not throwing a flag. I don't care what he says, there has to be someone who sees the replay we saw and tell him to throw a flag. Or he just has to be able to do it himself.

 

But bringing up Reid right now is... weird. Guy blew the entire Chiefs season by one of the most stupid coaching decision I've ever seen last week against the Texans when he went for a 4th down on his own half instead of punting. 

 

Grass is not always greener on the other side.

Condensing all that has gone wrong for the chiefs this year into that one play is kind of silly. Andy Reid has won two super bowls, I don’t think he needs your advice or mine. Now  McDermott, he gets the full load of our crap until he gets to the SB. 

[Chuck Schick]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

His conservative play before half saved them 4 points. I know it’s weird, no faith in D to get off the field and try to go in half 21-14, instead he settled for the 24-7 pats lead. Just funny, not many coaches would do that. Honestly they gotta get better game plan to start games or make the necessary changes on the fly instead of at half time. 

Wait, what?  How could the Bills have scored another TD before halftime?

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

We do have a guy - a former ref as a matter of fact.  And he didn't scream in Sean's ear.  Apparently, it wasn't obvious to him either.  If I was Sean, I'd trust the ex-ref too.   

I’m confused. We all saw the ball hit the ground. It was worth a challenge, so in my opinion, ex-ref didn’t do his job. 

[davefan66]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

McDermott explained why there was no challenge: the Bills never got a replay before the Patriots snapped the next play.

 

But let’s zoom out for a moment.  When I was a kid visiting the Louvre, I overheard someone say every brushstroke on a painting was perfect.  I got close, studied it, and told my mom I disagreed.  She told me to step back, take in the whole canvas, and then give my opinion.

 

So let’s stand back here. Vrabel has the stronger roster and one of the best offensive coordinators in the league.  The Patriots were at home, playing their most meaningful game since Brady left.  And yet McDermott and the Bills walked out with the win. 

 

You can nitpick individual brushstrokes if you want, but taken as a whole, that game was a masterpiece — and a credit to McDermott’s coaching.

 

 

Lets not forget the pats were coming off a buy and had two weeks to prepare.