Dorian Williams in the Hoecht/Lorax role?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

35 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

This dude will grind non-stop until he gets there

I think this could be a week for him to see interior looks in the NASCAR package because of his length and the tenacious motor you mention. 
 

His issue with rushing in the interior will be his pad level, and lack of pass rush repertoire. Idk if he could attack from a 2 point stance in a way that Solomon can. Without the right leverage vs the interior offensive lineman, he’d really need to be able to develop the ability to use his long limbs to create the much needed extension required to move these guys. Without it, I imagine he’d be stonewalled with limited skills to disengage. Taking off from a 3 point stance could help with this, but it limits the “move” ability that brings a sense of unpredictability to the rush. 

Edited 16 hours ago by EmotionallyUnstable

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, nosejob said:

I think the key is having someone with some meat. Not Williams or Solomon even. Someone that's 6'6 270, played in the SEC at all DL spots and OLB?

We need a big, bald, batcrap crazy redneck. Do we have that?

Sound a bit like Joey Bosa, except OSU isn’t in the SEC

[boyst]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

They've given him several opportunities as a pass rusher over the last couple years and he just has no instincts for it.

I agree and that's why I think we'd be better off with Thompson on the line 

 

Rushing the passer is difficult. It's not simply see ball get ball.  HIs tracking to the quarterback was off. He would be better as an off the line backer playing as a spy to rush the passer. 

 

Too lazy to get into the nuances of it for those curious why. Just going to say that he doesn't have a nose for it, or the dog that it would take to get in there and be nasty. 

[MasterStrategist]

We are losing the "power"/bull rush, and ability to anchor with Hoecht out.  

 

You could slot Hoecht at the 3 technique/4i on 3rd and 4-5. and not worry about his run defense either.  Thats the big loss, that versatility- not sure they trust Solomon or Dorian at that distance to put them inside.

 

3rd and 6+, absolutely Dorian on the line makes alot of sense. He did a great job "sugaring" the C and got Hoecht or Solomon into some 1-1s vs thr guard -- then basically became a spy on Mahomes/helped eliminate Patrick getting outside the pocket/rushing up the middle.

 

How many times did Mahomes take off successfully?  Very few, because Dorian was effective at that spy/contain role.

 

Edit: will just add, I think the 3 DL 2 LB 6 DBs (dime looks) is something McD has adjusted to playing against KC --- however, not sure we see that against many other teams. 

 

My point is that Im not sure we see many 3 man DL, unless a team with a team/qb who likes to move the pocket.  That said, Dorian might not be deployed in this type of role week to week/its very matchup dependent.  

Edited 16 hours ago by MasterStrategist

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

We are losing the "power"/bull rush, and ability to anchor with Hoecht out.  

 

You could slot Hoecht at the 3 technique/4i on 3rd and 4-5. and not worry about his run defense either.  Thats the big loss, that versatility- not sure they trust Solomon or Dorian at that distance to put them inside.

 

3rd and 6+, absolutely Dorian on the line makes alot of sense. He did a great job "sugaring" the C and got Hoecht or Solomon into some 1-1s vs thr guard -- then basically became a spy on Mahomes/helped eliminate Patrick getting outside the pocket/rushing up the middle.

 

How many times did Mahomes take off successfully?  Very few, because Dorian was effective at that spy/contain role.

This is why I think it’ll be match-up specific. It really isn’t necessary to have that vs a guy like Tua, Flacco, Rodgers and even Stroud.

[Captain Hindsight]

[Jimmy Harris 69]

We need the rooks to play—-Sanders, and Jackson. This string of injuries may end up a blessing,  giving us fresh, young legs up front in January. The next two months allows time to integrate these guys, test different combinations. The Bills have players to play Hoecht’s roaming pass rusher role. This is McDermott’s time to shine. 

[billsfan89]

Probably could combo that role with Dorian and Solomon won’t be the same but maybe they could offer some of that flexibility 

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

I agree and that's why I think we'd be better off with Thompson on the line 

 

Rushing the passer is difficult. It's not simply see ball get ball.  HIs tracking to the quarterback was off. He would be better as an off the line backer playing as a spy to rush the passer. 

 

Too lazy to get into the nuances of it for those curious why. Just going to say that he doesn't have a nose for it, or the dog that it would take to get in there and be nasty. 

Interesting. Have a recommended link or video that might get into it a little bit?

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I was thinking it would be Groot moving around with Bosa and AJ at the ends.  At some point Jackson has to get involved as well.  Williams is an interesting option but I think his size would be a bit of an issue.

 

Groot lacks the violence and explosion you're looking for in this unique role. He can be stout af and disruptive at times, but he doesn't have the combat hands and twitchy flash needed to cause chaos. 

 

6 hours ago, elroy16 said:

They've moved Solomon inside at times as well.

Whoever they use, they have to keep up the movement up front and continue to confuse offenses as opposed to the sit back and read and react. 

 

He was the immediate replacement for Hoecht last week, and it wasn't terrible. He's got some tools, but maybe needs to get away from the length of NFL OTs to get going. 

 

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Yep, hes going to force feed a lot of ppl crow around here... unfortunately i do not think it'll really be this year, but hes built for playing ball.  big nasty, physical, super human strength (I had to crop it to fit on TBD, but its him).  the dude is really raw, but hes as hard of a worker as you can find, all the drive to do it, and all the talent.

Elite genetics, younger brother is a Freshman LB at Texas.

 

 

Hes super raw, when he got to LSU he didnt look like he belonged in D-2, let alone the SEC! Had to be one of, if not THE most improved dude in college ball across his 4 years at school. Its amazing how different his game got, kid loves ball, loves smashing and the physicality.  This dude will grind non-stop until he gets there.  Hes raw for the NFL, but he will adjust.

 

Relentless Work ethic/drive + Elite Size/Strength + Serious Athlete (not just strong) + Genetics + Studious w/ film

 

Dont believe me? I don't blame you, hes barely dressed this year. But this is just him behind the curve from HS imo, ton of untapped talent, you will get 100% to his ceiling -- no matter what that ends up being.

 

(Sorry link looks weird, its NFL Film Room on Youtube, but I had to link it from Google homepage, as YT is blocked at work)

Heres him dominating & outsmarting the #4 Overall Pick last year - LT Will Campbell (New England) several times in 2024

 

Link below ⬇️⬇️⬇️

https://share.google/FyzoNo5C7LNdk0bhq

 

Rewatching it "Dominating" is a bit hyperbolic, (but I'll leave it for criticism LOL) early on Campbell clamps him up a good amount, but you can absolutely see as the game progresses, Landon starts figuring him out. Tons of pressures, disruptive in run game. Smacks Nussmeier hard AF (@60second mark & 1:10 mark).  See a decent amount of reps from 2pt stance 

 

Jackson has much to learn about pad level and awareness, but he flashes the kind of frenetic, combative length you admire in a pass rusher. Obviously, he's an explosive physical specimen. We've seen Bills Day Two defensive draft picks show steep improvement after year one (Bernard and Bishop are recent examples). He's got the tools to invest some patience in. 

 

[vincec]

It’ll probably be Solomon playing that “marauder” role now that Hoecht is out, but he’s not great at it. I have doubts that Williams can do it given his small size and lack of pass rushing skill set. TBH, there really isn’t a good candidate on the team. That’s why Hoecht was brought here in the first place.

Edited 7 hours ago by vincec

[vincec]

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

Jackson has much to learn about pad level and awareness, but he flashes the kind of frenetic, combative length you admire in a pass rusher. Obviously, he's an explosive physical specimen. We've seen Bills Day Two defensive draft picks show steep improvement after year one (Bernard and Bishop are recent examples). He's got the tools to invest some patience in. 

They have no choice but to help Jackson make the jump but I can’t think of the last DL who went from looking that bad to a becoming a solid contributor. Usually you at least see some flashes in year one (unless they’re hurt). I hesitate to even say it, but I got Maybin vibes when I watched him in PS.

Edited 11 hours ago by vincec

[JoshAllin]

Just throwing names out there, maybe try out buffalo joe in the mix

[eball]

13 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I would like it...Williams is violent and sudden, something we lack mostly. Reminds me a lot of Bradham in that way.

Which reminds me…guns don’t kill people, Nigel Bradham kills people. 
 

[ProcessTruster]

sounds good.  I think when all the injured pieces on defense are back, they should be fine

[Not at the table Karlos]

It will most likely be Solomon. The guy that was playing the position all year while Hoecht was suspended and the guy that replaced him after he got injured. 

11 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

We are losing the "power"/bull rush, and ability to anchor with Hoecht out.  

 

You could slot Hoecht at the 3 technique/4i on 3rd and 4-5. and not worry about his run defense either.  Thats the big loss, that versatility- not sure they trust Solomon or Dorian at that distance to put them inside.

 

3rd and 6+, absolutely Dorian on the line makes alot of sense. He did a great job "sugaring" the C and got Hoecht or Solomon into some 1-1s vs thr guard -- then basically became a spy on Mahomes/helped eliminate Patrick getting outside the pocket/rushing up the middle.

 

How many times did Mahomes take off successfully?  Very few, because Dorian was effective at that spy/contain role.

 

Edit: will just add, I think the 3 DL 2 LB 6 DBs (dime looks) is something McD has adjusted to playing against KC --- however, not sure we see that against many other teams. 

 

My point is that Im not sure we see many 3 man DL, unless a team with a team/qb who likes to move the pocket.  That said, Dorian might not be deployed in this type of role week to week/its very matchup dependent.  

They’ve been running that package all year with Solomon in that spot. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Not at the table Karlos

[GaryPinC]

Maybe, but Soloman wasn't running it as effectively as Hoecht was.  Of course the change of coaching oversight may be the difference also.

 

It seems clear to me McDermott doesn't like to stunt his DL much and so the marauder role is critical in keeping the offense off balance. 

Hoecht's aggressiveness and effectiveness empowered and energized the entire defensive along with the secondary finally getting on the same page.

 

They need to figure out SOMEBODY who can fill that role even half as well as Hoecht.  

[boyst]

8 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Interesting. Have a recommended link or video that might get into it a little bit?

nope. lol

i don't watch much of the media stuff/takes. there's just too much and it burns me out. 

[noacls17]

14 hours ago, ngbills said:

Hoecht is listed as 300lbs

Training camp interview on gr he sd he was 267 

[Virgil]

I think it's nice in theory, but I don't believe Williams is as strong as Hoecht.  Hoecht was bull rushing through people and if they didn't get their full body in front of him, it was game over.