Keon WTF?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don't think a fade to Coleman should be the primary read, but if nobody else is open and Coleman is 1 on 1, I would probably rather take my chances throwing a jump ball to him than forcing the ball to a smaller well-covered WR. For whatever reason, most times when we've tried to do this, Josh ends up throwing it low into Coleman's chest instead of giving Coleman a chance to play to his strengths. Just seems like the chemistry isn't there in Year 2, which is pretty concerning. 

So not only does Coleman need a specific set of circumstances to warrant a target, but even the target needs to be a specific kind of throw? 

 

 

[DCOrange]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So not only does Coleman need a specific set of circumstances to warrant a target, but even the target needs to be a specific kind of throw? 

 

 

I mean, yeah, a well thrown ball helps any WR. That's not unique to Coleman. Having a size/athleticism mismatch and then throwing a ball that negates that mismatch is bad.

[GoBills808]

Just now, DCOrange said:

I mean, yeah, a well thrown ball helps any WR. That's not unique to Coleman. Having a size/athleticism mismatch and then throwing a ball that negates that mismatch is bad.

The whole point of having a guy w elite athleticism is to be able to rely on him to win in various positions and w less than ideal throws

 

Coleman thus far has not shown that ability. He's not strong at the catch point and tbh he sometimes doesn't even get there because he's not strong enough to stay on balance

 

 

[SydneyBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wasn’t Keon Coleman early 2nd round ? If so, no 5th year option. 

 

Yes, I just realised that now.

 

Heck, that - sadly - might be a good thing. 

[RichRiderBills]

I still think folks are being too hard on Keon. There's just a huge fandemonium hot take need for instant gratification these days. That and instant hot take overreaction. 

 

Its rampant and rife and a product of this new internet cycle. I hate it. 

 

I'm going to say it again - folks on WGR discussed what they would see as a huge improvement for Keon this year, and the consensus was 60-70 catches and 5-10 TDs. He's still tracking for that kind of season, and yes I know the 8 catch game one helps him. We will see. 

 

Once more I'll point out the Moulds learning curve. Andre Reed took 4 years to get over 60 grabs. A few others as well. It sometimes takes 2-3 years for WRs to develop. Year 3 or 4 were also huge jumps for Lee Evans and Peerless Price. 

 

He's clearly limited and needs to work on several areas, but there is also a pop and tenacity about him that comes out that really has me hopeful. 

 

 

[HappyDays]

40 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

I still think folks are being too hard on Keon. There's just a huge fandemonium hot take need for instant gratification these days. That and instant hot take overreaction. 

 

I generally agree with your point here, I am usually very patient with letting young players develop. But as someone that really liked Coleman as a prospect I have to be honest about what he's doing on the field. I don't expect young players to be immediate superstars but you want to see some sort of arc of progress from them. Josh Allen is a classic example - he was a better player by the end of his rookie year and continued showing progress in his sophomore season. Coleman on the other hand ended his rookie season worse than it started, and to my eyes he has shown no improvement this year. Lack of separation I get and anticipated, but he's not even doing the things he's supposed to do well - fighting through contact, catching back shoulder throws, etc. He's not a Skyy Moore level bust who doesn't deserve to be on the field but his performance so far caps him as a WR4 type.

 

Not giving up on him yet but we really need to start seeing progress and I'm losing hope that that progress is going to show up out of the blue this year. He reportedly showed a ton of progress in camp but it hasn't translated to real games. Next year is big for him. He could still follow the Davante Adams/Nico Collins track of breaking out in his 3rd season. This year I just don't see it.

[Rigotz]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I generally agree with your point here, I am usually very patient with letting young players develop. But as someone that really liked Coleman as a prospect I have to be honest about what he's doing on the field. I don't expect young players to be immediate superstars but you want to see some sort of arc of progress from them. Josh Allen is a classic example - he was a better player by the end of his rookie year and continued showing progress in his sophomore season. Coleman on the other hand ended his rookie season worse than it started, and to my eyes he has shown no improvement this year. Lack of separation I get and anticipated, but he's not even doing the things he's supposed to do well - fighting through contact, catching back shoulder throws, etc. He's not a Skyy Moore level bust who doesn't deserve to be on the field but his performance so far caps him as a WR4 type.

 

Not giving up on him yet but we really need to start seeing progress and I'm losing hope that that progress is going to show up out of the blue this year. He reportedly showed a ton of progress in camp but it hasn't translated to real games. Next year is big for him. He could still follow the Davante Adams/Nico Collins track of breaking out in his 3rd season. This year I just don't see it.

 

Great post and one caveat I'll add, as I'm not OUT on Coleman either.

 

Through 6 games, Coleman has proven that he can't be relied upon in big situations this year.

 

If the coaching staff keeps drawing up plays to him in big moments, that's on the coaching staff, not Keon.

 

He clearly needs to develop his route tree and isn't ready yet to be featured. Maybe he never will be... but it's certain he isn't ready now.

Edited 3 hours ago by Rigotz

[Allen2Moulds]

1 hour ago, RichRiderBills said:

I still think folks are being too hard on Keon. There's just a huge fandemonium hot take need for instant gratification these days. That and instant hot take overreaction. 

 

Its rampant and rife and a product of this new internet cycle. I hate it. 

 

I'm going to say it again - folks on WGR discussed what they would see as a huge improvement for Keon this year, and the consensus was 60-70 catches and 5-10 TDs. He's still tracking for that kind of season, and yes I know the 8 catch game one helps him. We will see. 

 

Once more I'll point out the Moulds learning curve. Andre Reed took 4 years to get over 60 grabs. A few others as well. It sometimes takes 2-3 years for WRs to develop. Year 3 or 4 were also huge jumps for Lee Evans and Peerless Price. 

 

He's clearly limited and needs to work on several areas, but there is also a pop and tenacity about him that comes out that really has me hopeful. 

 

 

For me it's not stats, it's about what defenses are able to do against our offense.  If this continues, Allen won't finish the season.  The last 2 games, Allen has been hit more times than I can remember.  Teams are sending the house, and betting that our receivers won't get open in 1 on 1 situations, and they've mostly been right.

 

There were a lot of us here, myself included that hated the Keon Coleman pick, because there were far too many scouting reports that said that he failed to separate at the Collegiate level.  If he was a 5th round pick, that was coming in only in certain situations as maybe our 4th or 5th guy like Shavers, than I would absolutely love him.  But the fact that he's been relied on to start as our X receiver is an absolute mistake.

 

In that regard, it's on Beane and not Keone's fault.  He doesn't control when or who drafts him.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I generally agree with your point here, I am usually very patient with letting young players develop. But as someone that really liked Coleman as a prospect I have to be honest about what he's doing on the field. I don't expect young players to be immediate superstars but you want to see some sort of arc of progress from them. Josh Allen is a classic example - he was a better player by the end of his rookie year and continued showing progress in his sophomore season. Coleman on the other hand ended his rookie season worse than it started, and to my eyes he has shown no improvement this year. Lack of separation I get and anticipated, but he's not even doing the things he's supposed to do well - fighting through contact, catching back shoulder throws, etc. He's not a Skyy Moore level bust who doesn't deserve to be on the field but his performance so far caps him as a WR4 type.

 

Not giving up on him yet but we really need to start seeing progress and I'm losing hope that that progress is going to show up out of the blue this year. He reportedly showed a ton of progress in camp but it hasn't translated to real games. Next year is big for him. He could still follow the Davante Adams/Nico Collins track of breaking out in his 3rd season. This year I just don't see it.

I wasn't a big fan of the pick and I've been pretty critical of beanes choices and picks as of late. But I can see the vision im assuming beane had. Replace the Gabe Davis role with a more athletic yac guy that can do 50/50 balls. Is that for sure what beane was thinking? We may never know. I disagree with it but I can understand the vision if it was.

 

So I think theres a multitude of things at play with keon, he hasn't shown much growth and theres obviously some maturity issues still there but many of the issues with him are not his fault imo. Beane asked Gabe to be a #2, hes not that, he never showed the ability to be that, not his fault. Beane is asking keon to be a wr1B/wr2 with out a dominant wr1 alpha that demands doubles and takes attention away from keon, hes not that, not his fault. Beane brought him into a situation thats not nearly the type of offense he could thrive in. Keon would thrive in an offense where teams have thier eyes or dt on the alpha and all of a sudden keon is on a slant route vs a LB or cb2 and torches you for 30 yards with yac, he could be dangerous wr2. But that won't happen in buffalo, that isn't thier identity (unless a trade). I think another key piece was what Gabe was highly successful at, the play breaks down josh allen rolls to his right, gabe works his way to josh, finds some space near the sideline and josh hits Gabe for 20. Defenses are doing everything they can to not allow josh to roll to his right this season and it seems to be working. And if keon is the Gabe replacement, defenses have done a good job of taking that away. I would absolutely love to be proven completely wrong and keon become an alpha but I dont think it will happen and i think its unfair for beane to ask him to be something he hasn't shown to be.

Edited 2 hours ago by Norcalbillsfan