Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

What did you think about Cole Bishop?

 

DT’s will be Oliver, Sanders, Ogun, Walker and DaQuan?

 

Will Carter be on the team until week 7 after Ogun gets back or is he so bad that he’s gone regardless?

 

I thought Cole was fine this week. He didn't stand out but no mistakes that were immediately noticeable.

[NickelCity]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought Cole was fine this week. He didn't stand out but no mistakes that were immediately noticeable.

 

His decisiveness and timing were noticably better but it's such a small sample size I can't really say more than that. Better than a bad performance though. 

 

Wrt Shavers and special teams, he was an ace in college. I am really interested to see what he would look like as a core teamer during the regular season (i.e., not splitting reps all off-season)

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I had Deone on my good list and he was in pass rush - reason I left him off the list was I rewatched some run defense snaps and he is having real issues there still. He really is Jordan Phillips mkii. Built like a 1T plays like a 3T.

 

I just can't bring myself to care about his run defense, especially in a rookie season where he is going to have a specialized rotational role. Put him next to Oliver on 3rd downs or late in games in obvious passing situations and just let him penetrate. I understand he was going against backup OL but he was obviously way too much to handle for whichever unfortunate soul he was matched up against.

 

On his run defense - He gets washed down the line when he stands up too tall off the snap. This was a known problem during his time at Kentucky and he needs to continue working on it to become a 3 down player. I did notice at least some progress last night though. He had a couple dominant run stuffs where he kept his pads low and that leverage allowed him to easily swat aside his blocker and get into the backfield almost immediately.

 

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

DeWayne Carter - Sound the alarm. DeWayne Carter was out there right to the end last night playing with such luminaries as Nelson Ceaser, Marcus Harris and Paris Shand alongside him on the defensive line. He made zero impact. If he makes the roster it is because Brandon Beane has gone to bat for his 3rd round pick of just over one year ago. The coaches are telling you what they think of where he is through their usage. And it is not good.

 

He's been shockingly bad this preseason. I know he was nothing to write home about in his rookie season but he never looked this bad. Not only was he on the field with the Nelson Ceasars of the defensive line, he was going against the Nelson Caesar version of offensive linemen and was getting stonewalled on every snap. I know the Bills asked him to change his weight and try to become a more natural 1T, and that experiment has just flat out failed. My one slight concern with trading him would be that some other team will get him back to a 3T body and he'll eventually develop into a good player. But I just don't see how he fits into the long term plans here.

 

I'll throw Ogunjobi out as another player that has seriously underwhelmed me this preseason. He's been playing 3T next to Carter almost exclusively if my eyes don't deceive me, and he just isn't getting any kind of push at all. Looks like yet another classic Beane bust of a DL signing - a 30+ year old who has declined in recent years but we for some reason hand him a legit contract. Because of void years he even costs $2.57M against the cap in 2026, and will still be haunting the cap table in 2027 and 2028! Beane really just can't help himself with these players. I was so proud of him for restraining himself but he had to go and spoil it on the last meaningful day of free agency. The man needs to get himself a sponsor and start attending meetings.

 

On DTs in general - We're in a weird spot with this position. It's kind of like the WR conversation where we joke about having nothing but slot players, except here it is all 3Ts. Does Daquan Jones even have a comparable backup on this roster? Zion Logue is the only player that jumps out which is crazy to say out loud. Does he have a chance of making it if we trade Carter?

 

Edited Sunday at 03:50 PM by HappyDays

[muppy]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So another pre-season comes to a close and it's time for the final 2025 edition of Good Night / Bad Night! Let's get started

 

Good Night for...

 

Tyrell Shavers - Shavers makes it the rarely seen GN/BN hattrick and gets his third positive call out in three games. I think he came into camp as the leader in the clubhouse for WR6 after two years on the practice squad and flashing with the long touch down against the Jets last season. However, I thought his path to the 53 was narrow. This summer he has improved his special teams play, getting on the field in coverage units, has been the stand out receiver in pre-season and put the cherry on the top with the stunning one handed touchdown grab last night. Even more telling he was pulled from last night's game at the same time as the other "they're on the roster" guys. I do still have a question about his ability to separate against NFL corners but I think he has made it. And boy has he earned it! 

 

Shane Buechele - Having seen limited action through the first two pre-season games Buechele got the start and performed admirably as the Bills Quarterback going 25/30 for 278 and a touchdown as well as showing some mobility with his legs. What does it all mean? I don't think he is in the competition for the #2 Quarterback position but I suspect the Bills have decided who has won that job (and I think it's Trubisky) and are preparing for a world where Mike White doesn't come back to our practice squad. In that situation I think this was basically Buechele's audition to be the Bills break glass in case of emergency QB3. 

 

Dorian Williams - I think Williams has had a nice pre-season and there are signs of his play recognition skills improving. He started last season well in that regard and then regressed as the year went on when it feels like he increasingly just slips back into bad habits. This is a big, big year for Williams. It feels now or never for him if he is going to put himself in pole position to succeed Matt Milano after this coming season. Last night he was positive, decisive and showed off that closing speed and hard hitting that has always been there. 

 

KJ Hamler - I don't think Hamler is making the roster but he had a nice night including a touchdown grab and the speed and burst is still there with him. It's the consistency and the mental side that has always held him back. The Bills likely bring him back again to the practice squad but if not there is enough on film that someone else will. That feels like his lot now in the NFL, but I think he can make that work for another year or two.

 

The backup tight ends - Zach Davidson has had an interesting summer. He started it potentially in competition with rookie Jackson Hawes for the 3rd tight end role vacated by Quintin Morris and has ended it with a bit of a fight to hang on to a practice squad spot. I particularly like the look Keleki Latu who had a long catch and run but Davidson had two nice grabs of his own so that practice squad contest for TE4 is intriguing. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Daequan Hardy - This time last year a lot of us thought Hardy had made the roster and were surprised when he ended up cut and on the practice squad. However, this summer he has not shone at all and the Buccaneers picked on him relentlessly last night. I think he was in coverage on both touchdown passes for the home side and he was out of position so often it was almost funny. He might stick on the practice squad, but he might be done here too. 

 

DeWayne Carter - Sound the alarm. DeWayne Carter was out there right to the end last night playing with such luminaries as Nelson Ceaser, Marcus Harris and Paris Shand alongside him on the defensive line. He made zero impact. If he makes the roster it is because Brandon Beane has gone to bat for his 3rd round pick of just over one year ago. The coaches are telling you what they think of where he is through their usage. And it is not good.

 

Kendrick Green - Generally I think the backup offensive linemen have had a reasonable summer - but Green gave up a bad sack in the two minute drill and generally last night seemed to struggle with his balance. He is likely in a battle with Dan Feeney as the vet interior offensive lineman on the practice squad and despite arriving on the roster much later I think Feeney's center ability gives him the inside track and I think he has been the more consistent through three pre-season games. 

 

Coverage units - The first two games were a pretty good look for new special teams coordinator Chris Tabor - however, last night less so. Returns of 39, 42 and 57 yards respectively will cause serious concern among the Bills staff and while it's true that in the final pre-season game a special teams coach might not have all of his guys this was a really disappointing effort. 

 

The Buccaneers play-by-play guy - Who spent the first two series calling running back Elijah Young "Jarveon Howard." In fairness to him it is probably partly on Bills PR as Howard was signed then immediately waived hurt this week only to have Young replace him.... but even when the game feed was clearly showing close ups of Young's jersey the play by play game continued. Eventually a producer pointed out his error. But it was funny while it lasted. 

 

 

That's a wrap folks. Let's hear your thoughts.... we are on to cutdowns!

excellent recap. I appreciate this a LOT.  I always root for the laundry whomever makes the  cut. Its getting g to the nitty gritty now

 

Its time to put up or go home prospects. 

 

🍿

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Shavers - I believe that when he was originally signed to the practice squad a couple of years ago, one of the things mentioned about him was his Special Teams play ... With Shakir recovering from a high ankle sprain and with Samuel constantly injured, I'd bet they either keep 6 or put Samuel on IR.

 

You are correct. I heard that he was an elite gunner or something along those lines.  Versatility will get him on this team.  

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, MDH said:

This has been what I’ve seen most pre-season as well. Walker gets a few splash plays that get everyone’s attention but Sanders has been the better - more consistent- player who does all the little things that don’t always get noticed. 

 

Well to be fair, the Bills defense has had plenty of players that "do all the little things" but then always fail to make a big play in a big moment. Fans maybe have gotten a bit sick of that archetype. So I think having a DL who might be the inverse of that is a great addition to the roster. Consistency is important but splash plays win games. Walker looks like a splash play waiting to happen.

 

Edited Sunday at 03:42 PM by HappyDays

[Dan]

3 hours ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

We’ll be talking about Landon Jackson next year like we are talking about Carter this year.

 

I just don’t see how he becomes a starting NFL lineman. 

True.  We all know your career is set within 4months of being drafted.  If he’s not an all pro now, cut him!

[Process]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I just can't bring myself to care about his run defense, especially in a rookie season where he is going to have a specialized rotational role. Put him next to Oliver on 3rd downs or late in games in obvious passing situations and just let him penetrate. I understand he was going against backup OL but he was obviously way too much to handle for whichever unfortunate soul he was matched up against.

 

On his run defense - He gets washed down the line when he stands up too tall off the snap. This was a known problem during his time at Kentucky and he needs to continue working on it to become a 3 down player. I did notice at least some progress last night though. He had a couple dominant run stuffs where he kept his pads low and that leverage allowed him to easily swat aside his blocker and get into the backfield almost immediately.

 

 

 

He's been shockingly bad this preseason. I know he was nothing to write home about in his rookie season but he never looked this bad. Not only was he on the field with the Nelson Ceasars of the defensive line, he was going against the Nelson Caesar version of offensive linemen and was getting stonewalled on every snap. I know the Bills asked him to change his weight and try to become a more natural 1T, and that experiment has just flat out failed. My one slight concern with trading him would be that some other team will get him back to a 3T body and he'll eventually develop into a good player. But I just don't see how he fits into the long term plans here.

 

I'll throw Ogunjobi out as another player that has seriously underwhelmed me this preseason. He's been playing 3T next to Carter almost exclusively if my eyes don't deceive me, and he just isn't getting any kind of push at all. Looks like yet another classic Beane bust of a DL signing - a 30+ year old who has declined in recent years but we for some reason hand him a legit contract. Because of void years he even costs $2.57M against the cap in 2026, and will still be haunting the cap table in 2027 and 2028! Beane really just can't help himself with these players. I was so proud of him for restraining himself but he had to go and spoil it on the last meaningful day of preseason. The man needs to get himself a sponsor and start attending meetings.

 

On DTs in general - We're in a weird spot with this position. It's kind of like the WR conversation where we joke about having nothing but slot players, except here it is all 3Ts. Does Daquan Jones even have a comparable backup on this roster? Zion Logue is the only player that jumps out which is crazy to say out loud. Does he have a chance of making it if we trade Carter?

 

I've hated the Ogunjobi signing since Day 1. Have a feeling he's going to end up being added to the long list of DTs we give good money too, who end up doing nothing here. Hope I'm wrong. 

[LEBills]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I just can't bring myself to care about his run defense, especially in a rookie season where he is going to have a specialized rotational role. Put him next to Oliver on 3rd downs or late in games in obvious passing situations and just let him penetrate. I understand he was going against backup OL but he was obviously way too much to handle for whichever unfortunate soul he was matched up against.

 

On his run defense - He gets washed down the line when he stands up too tall off the snap. This was a known problem during his time at Kentucky and he needs to continue working on it to become a 3 down player. I did notice at least some progress last night though. He had a couple dominant run stuffs where he kept his pads low and that leverage allowed him to easily swat aside his blocker and get into the backfield almost immediately.

 

 

 

He's been shockingly bad this preseason. I know he was nothing to write home about in his rookie season but he never looked this bad. Not only was he on the field with the Nelson Ceasars of the defensive line, he was going against the Nelson Caesar version of offensive linemen and was getting stonewalled on every snap. I know the Bills asked him to change his weight and try to become a more natural 1T, and that experiment has just flat out failed. My one slight concern with trading him would be that some other team will get him back to a 3T body and he'll eventually develop into a good player. But I just don't see how he fits into the long term plans here.

 

I'll throw Ogunjobi out as another player that has serioisly underwhelmed me this preseason. He's been playing 3T next to Carter almost exclusively this preseason if my eyes don't deceive me, and he just isn't getting any kind of push at all. Looks like yet another classic Beane bust of a DL signing - a 30+ year old who has declined in recent years but we for some reason hand him a legit contract. Because of void years he even costs $2.57M against the cap in 2026, and will still be haunting the cap table in 2027 and 2028! Beane really just can't help himself with these players. I was so proud of him for restraining himself but he had to go and spoil it on the last meaningful day of preseason. The man needs to get himself a sponsor and start attending meetings.

 

On DTs in general - We're in a weird spot with this position. It's kind of like the WR conversation where we joke about having nothing but slot players, except here it is all 3Ts. Does Daquan Jones even have a comparable backup on this roster? Zion Logue is the only player that jumps out which is crazy to say out loud. Does he have a chance of making it if we trade Carter? 

A pretty good chance that Obi is just cut week 6 for cap savings imo. 

Spending too much on mid DL players in free agency, drafting too many running backs in the first 4 rounds, and not drafting WRs are my three biggest gripes with Beane. That was a small part of the reason I was pumped we signed Cook. That means Beane won’t use an early pick on running back for a couple years.

 

Im not sure we can break the other two habits lol

 

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought Cole was fine this week. He didn't stand out but no mistakes that were immediately noticeable.

There was a second part to my question.

[LEBills]

19 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

You are correct. I heard that he was an elite gunner or something along those lines.  Versatility will get him on this team.  

It was punt block team at SDSU, he had like 3 punt block return touchdowns or something like that.

Edited Sunday at 03:53 PM by LEBills

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Was on my good list until he missed the kick. Good to see him out there and looking healthy. But you can't miss those chip shots and get a good night!

Agree about Bass.  He makes me nervous.  High school kickers can’t miss those.  And he almost missed another one as well.  Don’t like his ball alway drifting to the right.  

[BlueRed]

29 minutes ago, Process said:

I've hated the Ogunjobi signing since Day 1. Have a feeling he's going to end up being added to the long list of DTs we give good money too, who end up doing nothing here. Hope I'm wrong. 

I was curious if other people were worried about Larry O. He played a bit last night and made zero impact against Bucs 3rd stringers. 
Everyone expects him to make the roster and join the DL rotation after his suspension but I don’t know that I see it. He hasn’t seemed to have made an impact all summer - but as others have noted, he’d be a costly swing and a miss if cut. 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well to be fair, the Bills defense has had plenty of players that "do all the little things" but then always fail to make a big play in a big moment. Fans maybe have gotten a bit sick of that archetype. So I think having a DL who might be the inverse of that is a great addition to the roster. Consistency is important but splash plays win games. Walker looks like a splash play waiting to happen.

 

 

Splash plays might appear to win big games but if you're out of position over and over again you can also cost a team games and many fans might be unware it's even happening. Ideally a player can be do both. 

[JaBu]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thats a bit optical illusion. Tv head on angle doesn't always do a good job on kicks. They were all good except for the miss. 

 

I  have to disagree; there was at least one that was close to the right upright and even the announcer made comment. All the Tampa kicker's kicks were much cleaner, it wasn't just the TV angle.

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, blacklabel said:

If Shavers doesn't make the team outright after that ridiculous TD catch I will.... I'll.... Well, I'll just sit here like a lump still but maybe I'll shake my fist at the clouds or something. 

 

I dunno if there's a spot for Hamler but I feel like he could be a bit of a speed option for them if they want. 

 

Deone Walker had some great plays. A couple times he flat out manhandled his guy and made a TFL. And then he got in there for a sack with Epenesa helping out. I know a few series later he did get washed out on some nice runs by TB but there's enough there that the dude could be a really solid player once he puts it all together. 

 

Cole Bishop looked as confident as I've seen him yet so good for him, keep it going. 

 

That catch was a beautiful thing.  But I've seen guys make circus catches in flag football leagues.  If you can't separate, you don't belong in the NFL.  With Shavers, that's a concern - though I am rooting for the kid.

[MikePJ76]

1 hour ago, Process said:

I've hated the Ogunjobi signing since Day 1. Have a feeling he's going to end up being added to the long list of DTs we give good money too, who end up doing nothing here. Hope I'm wrong. 

Yep me too.

 

terrible signing along with Forrest and the rest of the defensive free agents.

 

Ogunjobi is a declining player with no clear position who was released by Pittsburgh because he regressed vs the run, his only real quality.  Throw in the suspension.   Just absurd signing.
 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

We really think Buechele will be the 3? I would be nervous about that. At least white has started a bunch and played some meaningful snaps. And I suspect that if trubisky ended up playing at all, he could have a short leash given how awful he is— so would hope the 3rd guy is somewhat reliable. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

We really think Buechele will be the 3? I would be nervous about that. At least white has started a bunch and played some meaningful snaps. And I suspect that if trubisky ended up playing at all, he could have a short leash given how awful he is— so would hope the 3rd guy is somewhat reliable. 

If you are down to QB 3…

[VW82]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tyrell Shavers - I think he came into camp as the leader in the clubhouse for WR6 after two years on the practice squad and flashing with the long touch down against the Jets last season. However, I thought his path to the 53 was narrow. This summer he has improved his special teams play, getting on the field in coverage units, has been the stand out receiver in pre-season and put the cherry on the top with the stunning one handed touchdown grab last night. Even more telling he was pulled from last night's game at the same time as the other "they're on the roster" guys. I do still have a question about his ability to separate against NFL corners but I think he has made it. And boy has he earned it! 

 

 

Lots of folks seem to believe we'll keep six WRs this year. Why? Last year we kept five. A big part of our offensive philosophy seems to be "play big" with extra linemen or TEs. At some point, there just isn't room, especially if we go into the season with a few injured guys we probably don't want to stash on IR given they might be back in a week or two (e.g. Tre, Max).

 

If we only keep five, has Shavers done enough on teams to outplay a guy like Shenault? The latter appears to have also had a great camp / preseason, but specifically in the role he'd play every week as a core teams guy. Interesting he can even return kicks. 

 

I don't mean to downplay how good Shavers has been, and he'd be the first call once one of the top 4 goes down (samuel, samuel, curtis), but that likely isn't the case heading into week one, and I tend not to think Shavers will make it over Samuel given the traits he (theoretically) brings to the offense that no one else does. Maybe I'm missing something here Edit: another poster intimated Shenault was a disaster in coverage yesterday so maybe that complicates things.

Edited Sunday at 06:20 PM by VW82