McDermott - "Still looking for that other safety"

[MrEpsYtown]

I complained a bunch when they re-signed Hamlin because I think he is terrible and I feel like McDermott likes to stay in a comfort zone with guys.

I was fearful having that dude around would tempt coach to go with ole reliable and that’s where this is probably headed.  Hopefully, Bishop or someone steps up. The Simmons thing has been a no brainer for 2 years now, perhaps he wants too much. 
 

I am guessing McDermott is trying to light a fire with his public comments but that stuff is cheesy. Get the Bishop coached up…the mistakes he is making are fixable. 

[RoscoeParrish]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

C'mon, man.

In the 100+ year history of football, there has never been a defense where safety was anywhere near the most important position.

In the vast majority of defenses it's probably one of the 2-3 least important positions.

By its very nature, really bad safety play is gonna result in longer and longer plays.

 

I think the difference between very good and bad safety play is not as important as many other defensive positions.

 

But horrendous safety play will actually kill you

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

I'm pretty sure that's out of McDermotts mouth but I don't have a quote handy. Brian Dawkins was 100 percent the most important player on Jim Johnson/McDermott era Eagles. There not even a close #2.

No way is it the most important, that's just a load of crap.  Coach said it was one of thr most difficult positions to learn, not too long ago.

 

That trio of Mike, Will and Nickle is the most important on this defense.  Clearly trench play dictates on both sides of the ball, but one constant in a very good McD defense is that "middle layer".  We put A LOT on the plate of Milano, Taron and TB.  

 

Bishop has to stay healthy from here on out.  But he and Rapp are more than capable combo, with the rest of pieces surrounding them.

[Buffalo Ballin]

Didn't Beane and McDermott realize that players on defense DO get injured? Seems stupid that quality back ups weren't drafted years ago for Poyer and Hyde. Even for Milano. Somebody bring us up to speed on this.

 

Counting on players to stay healthy is negligent.

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Didn't Beane and McDermott realize that players on defense DO get injured? Seems stupid that quality back ups weren't drafted years ago for Poyer and Hyde. Even for Milano. Somebody bring us up to speed on this.

 

Counting on players to stay healthy is negligent.

 

 

 

Beane drafted Hamlin and Johnson and I beleive at least one other guy to develop. And of course brought in Rapp.  He tried. 

Beane wastes a pick or two every year moving up for a player. Maybe that explains lack of depth at certain places. 

As for Milano, he drafted two LBs in Williams and Bernard that could both play his spot while still waiting to see if Edmunds coudl play. Dont recall other LBs before that. Also had Kleine and Spector. So they had some depth along the way. 

The reality is there is often a significant drop off from starter to 2nd team. It's not like college where there is just another 4 or 5 star recruit waiting his turn. 

[stevestojan]

10 hours ago, BlueRed said:

It wouldn’t surprise me to see Cam Lewis  get the starting nod for the beginning of the year and then get Cole mixed in down the road. 

My god this sentence makes me realize how spoiled we were with Poyer and Hyde. 

[MikePJ76]

2 hours ago, Turf Toejam 34 said:

I think after Sunday who is giving up anything for RVD?    

Teams are always looking for tackles.  All year long.  

[NickelCity]

2 hours ago, Turf Toejam 34 said:

I think after Sunday who is giving up anything for RVD?    

 

If I was a team with a middling tackle situation I'd be all over RVD. We have a shockingly good inventory of OLine talent. 

[MJS]

Bishop played 12 snaps with a bunch of backups against starters, after missing a bunch of time with injury, was clearly shaking off some rust, and we all want to write him off before he even plays a snap in his 2nd year. Ok.

[Mango]

20 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think it was a mistake to ever draft one high. These days, and especially in McDermott's scheme, the safety position is mostly about cerebral traits. All else being equal you'd prefer to have a high end athletic talent there of course, but that's not as important as the safety understanding their responsibilities and hitting their landmarks. That's where Hamlin despite his athletic limitations still beats out Bishop.

 

Hyde and Poyer were 5th and 7th round picks respectively. Hyde had a 4.73 RAS score, Poyer had a 5.32. I don't know why this regime decided a top 64 pick with athletic traits but under-developed instincts and technique was the direction we needed to go.

 

 

Things don't apply generically to all teams.

 

McD relies heavily on his safety tandem. Porter/Hyde injuries and aging have been a major hurdle that McBeane haven't been able to get over.

 

If McD can take any old cerebral 7th round safety and turn them into one of the best (active)safety tandems the league, and our best safety tandem in franchise history, then he's welcome to sprinkle that magic dust again at anytime.

 

But until then it's held this defense back and it's a vital position group for the team. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:29 PM by Mango

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Bad sign for Bishop:

 

 

If Bishop is smart, he will use this as motivation to get his *** into gear. This is your dream. 

11 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

Not sure I've ever seen a position battle in a camp have so many guys doing everything they can to NOT win the battle 

Idk. I remember when Donald Jones won the Bills #1 WR spot at one point. That was the most pathetic position battle I’ve ever seen. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:57 AM by ChronicAndKnuckles

[stevestojan]

6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

If Bishop is smart, he will use this as motivation to get his *** into gear. This is your dream. 

 

I don’t think it’s for lack of trying; he’s simply not good enough. Effort only gets you so far. 

[Success]

54 minutes ago, MJS said:

Bishop played 12 snaps with a bunch of backups against starters, after missing a bunch of time with injury, was clearly shaking off some rust, and we all want to write him off before he even plays a snap in his 2nd year. Ok.

 

I'm dumbfounded by the whole discussion.  We have no idea what we have w/ Bishop yet.  

 

McDermott is doing his thing & trying to motivate, and I think he's trying in his own way to acknowledge the concern that the fanbase has about the position.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Hyde and Poyer were 5th and 7th round picks respectively. Hyde had a 4.73 RAS score, Poyer had a 5.32. I don't know why this regime decided a top 64 pick with athletic traits but under-developed instincts and technique was the direction we needed to go.

 

For the same reason they drafted Max Hairston... somewhere along the way over the last two years the Bills realized that they needed better and faster athletes on defense.

 

11 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I think best case scenario this turns out like a couple years ago where MLB was an open competition throughout camp, and no one knew Bernard would end up ready to be the starter bc he had been injured.  If Bishop could just get healthy and then some consistency in terms of reps, I think the coaching staff believes he can take on the starting role.  But he really hasn’t earned it yet either.

 

Yes, the best case scenario. At this point there's a lot of wishing and hoping.

 

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

So Bishop is still getting the 1st team reps in practice at least.

 

No surprise here... they don't really have many options. Plan A is to try to light a fire under Bishop's ass. They're hoping that they don't have to resort to plan B.

 

8 hours ago, balln said:

Just such a weird and bold McD comment this am. “We’re still trying to figure out who’s playing next to Rapp”

 

like is he playing mind games w bishop? Just weird. Would be easy to just say “yea bishop has missed time and only had one practice before the game. He’ll be better. We have love and confidence in him.”

 

NOPE. instead he says what he said. Bizarre

 

I don't think it's bizarre at all. It has been commented on numerous times how much more honest and less coddling McDermott has been this year. It looks to me like he's made the decision to not insulate players from criticism but rather allow them to feel the pressure to perform that all pros should feel. A 2nd round pick who's falling short of expectations should feel pressure. At this level and at these stakes, if a person can't handle pressure then they're not going to succeed. Coaches should be setting expectations and standards, not protecting players who are underperforming.

 

As I said in another thread, Parcells and Coughlin were a-holes most of the time.

 

And they each won 2 Super Bowls.

 

[That's No Moon]

4 hours ago, Brand J said:

I know McD has said that safety “is the most challenging position to learn in our defense.” And I remember that quote because it took me by surprise. I would’ve thought MLB was the most challenging with all its responsibilities.

You are correct, I misremembered what he said.  However, being the most challenging position to learn doesn't give me a lot of warm fuzzies that it's going to be fixed soon.  Bishop has missed so much off-season time in his first two years that it has to have stunted his development. They brought in Forrest and he's apparently lost.  They drafted Hancock and McDermott has already said they are trying not to overload him. Even if they brought in Simmons (which I don't think they will), how quickly can he pick up what they are trying to do?

1 hour ago, Success said:

We have no idea what we have w/ Bishop yet.  

That doesn't concern you tremendously?

[BillMafia716ix]

Is Cole Bishop our new Kaiir Elam? Sure is looking like it. Hasn’t been healthy and when he does play, he hasn’t been anything spectacular. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:01 AM by BillMafia716ix

[JoshAllin]

I wanted Cooper Dejean with the 1st pic last seaosn. I could see him playing safety at the same mvp level he had last season. Hopefully this isnt a big problem this season and Bish steps up

[iccrewman112]

I’m pretty sure Justin Simmons is available. Maybe he would chase a ring on a 2 year deal where essentially this year is low pay but there are guarantees for next year to avoid some cap hit.

 

thought he was a good fit last season. Maybe he worth bringing in or a phone call to gauge interest.

[RoscoeParrish]

3 hours ago, Success said:

I’m dumbfounded by the whole discussion.  We have no idea what we have w/ Bishop yet.  

Isn’t this kind of the problem?

 

They apparently really loved him in the second round, and said they almost traded up to get him, and with a MASSIVE need at S and next to minimum competition and now in year two of the system, he can’t even maintain being penciled in to start week one?

Edited Wednesday at 07:12 AM by RoscoeParrish

[That's No Moon]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

Isn’t this kind of the problem?

 

They apparently really loved him in the second round, and said they almost traded up to get him, and with a MASSIVE need at S and next to minimum competition, he can’t even maintain being penciled in to start week one?

He's missed massive chunks of development time in each of his 1st two seasons. It's a tremendous problem.