McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[QCity]

50 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not big on McDermott. I think he’s fine. He’s like the Brock Purdy of HCs to me.

 

I would say he's more like the Dak Prescott of HCs. He can put up some great numbers that everyone will point too, but in the back of your mind there's always that thought of "Hmm not sure if this is the guy that can ever get it done." You could do better, but you also could do a LOT worse, so you hope the stars will align one year. 

[FireChans]

Just now, QCity said:

 

I would say he's more like the Dak Prescott of HCs. He can put up some great numbers that everyone will point too, but in the back of your mind there's always that thought of "Hmm not sure if this is the guy that can ever get it done." You could do better, but you also could do a LOT worse, so you hope the stars will align one year. 

Bingo.

 

Everyone universally agrees he’s pretty good. Everyone universally agrees he’s not close to the best. The majority of folks with worse would gladly take him tomorrow and the few folks with better are glad they don’t have him.

 

Perfect analogy.

[Alphadawg7]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Do you believe that Sean McDermott is a better head coach than Sean Payton? If so, we STRONGLY disagree. Payton has a Super Bowl and would have 2 without the worst call in NFL History. He changed the momentum of the Super Bowl with a surprise onside kick. He went to Denver with a bottom 10 roster and went to the playoffs. Sean Payton is a way better coach than Sean McDermott. 

 

I am not here to say who is better or not between Payton and McD - that is subjective.  But I will say using "way better" is an exaggeration.  While Sean is a great coach in general, lets not also forget he and the Saints struggled to even consistently make the playoffs in NO with prime Brees, he had a lot of things that became critical of him while he was in NO as well.  He is a prime example of how a SB ring can mask a lot of things and make people forget a lot of things. 

 

Would I put McD ahead of him - no, at least not yet, but I also don't think its fair to say Sean is "way better" either.  If McD wins a SB this year, his body of work, win %, and track record will all be better than Sean's.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Fair or not McDermott will be judged by winning a Super Bowl. If he wins one, then he will be considered a legendary coach in WNY. If he doesn't then fans will be angry at Terry Pegula for keeping a coach who wasted Allen's career. 

This is so true.  We are pretty much waiting for hindsight to dictate how we feel about this guy when it's all said and done. 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I remember.

I remember going to the playoffs with the same record that we missed out on the playoffs twice during the drought.

 

I remember only having that record because we played the easiest schedule ever, facing Josh McCown, David Fales, Trevor Siemian, Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett, Derek Carr, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, and Jay Cutler.

 

I remember needing Andy Dalton to save us.

 

 

 

 

This is nothing against McD… just saying that year proves nothing imo.

 

So you're saying that with Tyrod Taylor, we had the better QB in all those games and all those should have been easy wins?

 

[balln]

3 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

This is so true.  We are pretty much waiting for hindsight to dictate how we feel about this guy when it's all said and done. 

But history tells us that no coach /qb combo this long together will win a Super Bowl. So we’re waiting for improbability in my view. That’s why I was for moving on from him after :13 seconds 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I agree. And that is part of the reason why I have been a staunch supporter of keeping McD. It’s also why I stated (in the post you quoted) that my argument is not against McD, but rather against the argument that 2017 proves anything. Marrone and Mularkey both led us to 9-7 records - they just weren’t lucky enough to do so in a year where 9-7 meant a playoff berth. 

 

From another perspective: Rex Ryan went 8-8 with the same roster that McD went 9-7. 

 

He didn't actually. That 2015 Bills team that Rex went 8-8 with was the most loaded Bills roster of my fandom aside from QB. Significant players on that team that were not on the 2017 team: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Percy Harvin, Stefon Gilmore, Ronald Darby, Nigel Bradham, Mario Williams, Marcel Darues (who played 6 games in 2017 and was traded with the Bills at 4-2). 

 

I know McDermott and Beane were responsible for some of that talent not being there because they'd traded away for picks or allowed to walk in FA.... but my point is in terms of the talent on the football field the 2017 roster, while not a scrub roster by any means (2018 was much closer to that - at least on offense), was definitely weaker than the 2015 roster. That 2015 Bills team 100% should have made the playoffs, more so than any other team in the drought IMO. 

 

Rex then went 7-8 before being fired in 2016, which wasn't quite as strong with Mario and Bradham totally gone and Sammy hurt for a lot of the year (and I think that was the year of cluster injuries at safety wasn't it? Ended up starting total scrubs back there). 

 

I take your point about McDermott's 9-7 vs Marrone and Mularkey's 9-7 seasons. Particularly Mularkey's actually. Marrone's was an 8-8 masquerading as a 9-7 by beating the Patriots when the Bills were already eliminated and the Patriots were locked in on playoff seeding. There WAS an element of the Bills getting some breaks their way in 2017 that the tiebreakers favoured them and the Bengals pulled off the comeback in Baltimore. I think that is legit. I less take the argument that McDermott was just one win better than Rex with the same roster. He was 1 or 2 wins better with a definitely weaker roster. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Regular season pretty good. Playoffs not so much.

 

Regular season it is better than "pretty good". No active coach has beaten Andy Reid as many times as McDermott. He is unbeaten vs Kyle Shanahan and has a winning record vs Sean McVay. The one who has gotten the better of him consistently in the regular season is John Harbaugh (3-1 vs McDermott) and ironically McDermott is 2-0 vs him in the playoffs. 

[boyst]

If he wins a super bowl in the next year or two he'd be top 7 on this list. 

 

He hasn't and has the MVP. So he doesn't get the respect. 

[GaryPinC]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

At least 75% posters on here don’t seem to get this. 
No Josh Allen = .500-.600 coaching record for McD

The problem I have with this take is most of the best coaches will have this type of record without a premier QB.  And the coaches who have good records without a premier QB usually have a premier GM to feed them more premier talent than other GMs.  It's the NFL.  If all you have is middle of the road talent, even the best coaches won't consistently dominate.

 

For me, the best coaches in the league (top 12 or so) built a consistent performing and winning team in the regular season.  The premier coaches have also done this consistently in the playoffs.  Top 5 premier coaches should all have won a Superbowl.

 

To make the leap from best coaches to premier, they have to perfect their game day adaption and decisions.  The coaching and/or talent at playoff level demands it.  1-3 plays is usually all you have in these games to tip the game to beat the best.

 

I feel McD is firmly in the 6-12 range depending on your value weighing.  One of his strengths is his continuous improvement mantra.  He's shown it in his offensive philosophy and style changes over the years.  Now he needs to more quickly apply it on the defensive side, talent development side, and game day decisions side.

 

For me, he has the capacity.  But can he do it quickly enough before Allen's window closes?  Or do we need a better GM or at least scouts to feed him better talent?

 

All difficult questions which risk upsetting what has been built, so I understand the big majority are content to keep riding with the current FO.  But this year is it for me, we need to see a more dominant defense in the playoffs, more coaching creativity defensively to tip the scales.  Josh is 7 years in.  At some point he and we are going to lose a season to injury, it's inevitable and that will further set the future SuperBowl victory back.  We can't continue to squander this amazing Josh Allen

 

 

[BigAl2526]

People keep giving Stefanski a pass for the train wreck that is Cleveland.  Yeah, they have and idiot GM, but without evidence on the field you can't justify ranking Stephanski with the best coaches in the league.  I question Tomlin's ranking as well.  Yes, he's had success over a long tenure, but the last several years, the Steelers have tended toward mediocrity.  I don't like the Jim Harbaugh  selection either.  Yeah, he's a good coach with some history before he fled the NFL for Michigan, but PFF seems to buy into the Harbaugh mystique and bluster instead of looking at recent history, because he has precious little.

[bigK14094]

14 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya, nyc radio was trashing McD the other day, saying we should've moved on 2 3 years ago like the knicks did

Buffalo has seen a lot of bad coaches.  McD is not one of those bad ones.  He is in the top 10 best in the league, and perhaps the top 5.  Bills:  NO action required.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

You are a Payton guy, but if McD went 7-9 three straight years with prime Josh Allen, there would be blood in the streets.

 

Payton had the better highs, but I don’t think he’s THAT much better tbh. 

If Sean Payton were here since 2017, do you agree that they’d have at least 1 Super Bowl? He would have been to Allen what Reid is to Mahomes.

1 hour ago, QCity said:

 

I would say he's more like the Dak Prescott of HCs. He can put up some great numbers that everyone will point too, but in the back of your mind there's always that thought of "Hmm not sure if this is the guy that can ever get it done." You could do better, but you also could do a LOT worse, so you hope the stars will align one year. 

This is fair.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

People keep giving Stefanski a pass for the train wreck that is Cleveland.  Yeah, they have and idiot GM, but without evidence on the field you can't justify ranking Stephanski with the best coaches in the league.  I question Tomlin's ranking as well.  Yes, he's had success over a long tenure, but the last several years, the Steelers have tended toward mediocrity.  I don't like the Jim Harbaugh  selection either.  Yeah, he's a good coach with some history before he fled the NFL for Michigan, but PFF seems to buy into the Harbaugh mystique and bluster instead of looking at recent history, because he has precious little.

 

Agree with all three of these. Stefanski is not a top 10 coach IMO. Tomlin I think is top 10 but is ranked too high and the lovefest for Jim Harbaugh is way over the top. If you want someone to turn around a bad team with boring football, he is your man. Otherwise, he ain't.

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If Sean Payton were here since 2017, do you agree that they’d have at least 1 Super Bowl?

 

No. 

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, balln said:

But history tells us that no coach /qb combo this long together will win a Super Bowl. So we’re waiting for improbability in my view. That’s why I was for moving on from him after :13 seconds 

But Allen has already done what no big arm "project" QB has done. But it took a few years to get Allen to this state.

If we had Mahomes starting after his red shirt year, then McD/Bills might have a SB or 2.

 

Fact is McD is here and not getting let go, barring a mental breakdown. This is the year where O and D should both be good. Nothing about getting to let alone winning the SB, is easy. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

They should have gotten rid of him for Jim Harbaugh two years ago.  He's Dungy 2.0 with the best QB in franchise history history who can't win the big game. Ironically if Allens wins one SuperBowl, then McDermott probably makes the HOF. If Bills don't make the SuperBowl this year, he hopefully is fired.

All we can hope for is a SuperBowl win or an embarrassing playoff loss to move on. We are stuck in purgatory right now. The games are fun to watch, but failing to win a championship with the best QB in the NFL is inexcusable. I know this has been argued ad nauseum but many of us only care about a SuperBowl Championship now. Playoff appearances just aren't good enough.

People said the same thing about Reeves with Elway and Schottenhemier with his various superstar players and playoff failures. Reeves at least made it to the SuperBowl.  They even said the same thing about Shula with Marino. 

 

All that said, let's just play the games and see what happens in January. 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If Sean Payton were here since 2017, do you agree that they’d have at least 1 Super Bowl? He would have been to Allen what Reid is to Mahomes.

Not really.

 

i think @Buffalo716 is over the top with his McD praise, but I do believe him and Beane do deserve credit for identifying and developing Allen. As well as overhauling the Bills losing culture.
 

Now maybe if Payton is here in 2017, we feel comfortable drafting Mahomes and the Chiefs miss out on him, but the fact of the matter is if Payton was fired, he wouldn’t have ever considered Buffalo as a destination in 2017.

 

And that’s kinda the problem I see with McD, largely. He deserves credit for Allen and the Bills turnaround. But what we need in 2025 and what we needed in 2017 are very different and that’s why I don’t think he’s too good to fire. 
 

If Payton was coach in 2020 to now, do I think we would’ve done better? Absolutely. But I wasn’t ready to fire McD then and can’t really hold that against anyone.

[Gregg]

26 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

People keep giving Stefanski a pass for the train wreck that is Cleveland.  Yeah, they have and idiot GM, but without evidence on the field you can't justify ranking Stephanski with the best coaches in the league.  I question Tomlin's ranking as well.  Yes, he's had success over a long tenure, but the last several years, the Steelers have tended toward mediocrity.  I don't like the Jim Harbaugh  selection either.  Yeah, he's a good coach with some history before he fled the NFL for Michigan, but PFF seems to buy into the Harbaugh mystique and bluster instead of looking at recent history, because he has precious little.

 

I think Jim Harbaugh is a very good coach. He took the 49ers to the Super Bowl. He won a national championship at Michigan. In his first year as the Chargers HC, he made the playoffs. He wins wherever he goes.

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Jim Harbaugh is way over the top. If you want someone to turn around a bad team with boring football, he is your man

Feel like this is 90% of McDs resume.

[Einstein]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He didn't actually. That 2015 Bills team that Rex went 8-8 with was the most loaded Bills roster of my fandom aside from QB. Significant players on that team that were not on the 2017 team: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Percy Harvin, Stefon Gilmore, Ronald Darby, Nigel Bradham, Mario Williams, Marcel Darues (who played 6 games in 2017 and was traded with the Bills at 4-2). 

 

You and I have had this conversation before. We disagree greatly. You value the players on that team wayyyyy more than I do

 

And that’s ignoring the fact that McD is the reason those players were gone in the first place.