Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[FireChans]

23 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But one thing I think you have wrong is about us being thin - I would argue that we are actually the opposite, I would say we are more deep compared to most teams with competent WR's, I mean Samuel and Moore can and have started with success on other teams in worse QB situations too.  You can't say that about a lot of teams.  Now last year was different, those 2 didn't work out, but this year I am referencing the deep guys are competent WRs even though we don't use them (which is frustrating on its own). 

Just to be clear, I am arguing that we were super thin in 2022 and 2023.

 

And so those offseasons were perfect to add depth pieces that may have been ready to be contributors in 2024 and 2025. Just like we have done for LB and DL and DE and CB for their entire tenure.

 

They won’t do that for WR. And because they won’t, they are forced to pay guys like Samuel and Palmer nearly $20M total to fill holes.

 

Do I think Beane could have drafted 1-2 WRs that wouldn’t have made it necessary to throw money at Samuel and Palmer? Yes.

 

Do I think having 1-2 other rookie contract WRs and saving on Palmer and Samuel may have made a Pickens acquisition more feasible? Yes.

 

Thats why I believe it’s a compounding problem

[SoonerBillsFan]

Beane refuses to admit we have an issue at WR.  I dont get why, you're paying Josh 300 mill,find anotherJohn "smoke"  Brown and let's stretch the field.

 

I have to put this out there, if this is Josh not wanting to deal with another "Diggs" then get the talent then man up and tell the guy how it is.  You have to put up with some WR bs,its just how it is.

[Solomon Grundy]

30 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Beane refuses to admit we have an issue at WR.  I dont get why, you're paying Josh 300 mill,find anotherJohn "smoke"  Brown and let's stretch the field.

 

I have to put this out there, if this is Josh not wanting to deal with another "Diggs" then get the talent then man up and tell the guy how it is.  You have to put up with some WR bs,its just how it is.

See Jalen Hurts

[Alphadawg7]

54 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I get where you’re coming from, and I actually agree with parts of what you’re saying, especially around context and the fact that there wasn’t an obvious, slam-dunk Diggs replacement sitting there at the Bills’ draft slots. But I think you’re still missing the broader point of what “passing on a replacement” really means.

 

It’s not just about identifying one specific player they could have drafted or traded for but it’s about whether the organization prioritized that need enough to create the opportunity. Saying, “there was no one available at our picks” ignores that front offices routinely move up or structure cap space around a position they deem critical. The Bills clearly didn’t see WR1 as that level of priority.

 

No disrespect, but you seem to be ignoring that 2 years in a row, the Bills used the first pick in the draft, including a trade up where they used a 1st and 4th to get Kincaid, to get a pass catching weapon for Josh Allen.  Not sure how they can be accused of not prioritizing it, when even when they had Diggs and Davis still, they invested a 1st and 4th to get Kincaid after they unsuccessfully tried to trade up to get what was believed to be Addison.  

 

Then the first year without Diggs, they also had a $31M dead cap hit on a team already tight on cap.  They didn't have cap room to acquire a top end WR, and they didn't have a high enough pick to get any of the premiere outside WR prospects.  They took Keon, who has been the best WR in the calls on the outside so far from that draft.  So they took the best available outside WR actually even though that pick Keon has not yet worked out as we have hoped.  But he is also being used poorly by Brady in this offense, which isn't helping matters.

 

54 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

If Beane and McDermott had viewed replacing Diggs as a foundational need, they could have approached the offseason differently, whether that meant freeing up cap to pursue a higher-end veteran, packaging picks to move up for BTJ, or even structuring a trade before the draft. Instead, they made a conscious bet that their offense and Allen’s playmaking could sustain itself through scheme and depth rather than a true WR1. That’s a valid strategic choice, but it is a choice.

 

They clearly did - the invested their first pick in the draft in back to back years on a pass catcher for Allen.  And they also invested a 4th (as part of the trade to get Kincaid) and a 5th also in the same draft in a late round WR pick as well.

 

54 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

So when people say “they passed on a replacement,” it’s not necessarily saying “they passed on Player X who was guaranteed to be better.” It’s saying “they chose not to make replacing Diggs a top-level investment priority.” That’s fair to debate.

 

Is it fair?  You are accusing a GM of not prioritizing weapons for Allen when in 2023 all but 2 of our picks were used on offense, including our 1st and 4th on Kincaid when we still had a top 5 WR and in 2024 they again used their top pick on a WR that has actually been the best outside WR available from the point we selected him in the entire draft.  

 

54 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

You’re absolutely right that there weren’t obvious perfect options, and that DK and Pickens came with baggage or cost issues. But you can still fairly question whether the Bills’ overall philosophy, essentially deciding WR1 wasn’t worth aggressively targeting, was the right call for a team trying to keep its Super Bowl window open.

 

In short:

You’re right there wasn’t a sure-thing replacement sitting there.

But that’s partly because the Bills didn’t put themselves in position to get one.
That’s the real debate, not who they literally passed on, but whether they should’ve prioritized finding a true WR1 more than they did.

 

I appreciate the friendly debate and dialogue, and enjoyed the convo.  But I respectfully disagree they did not put themselves in position to get one when they used their most prized draft assets 2 years in a row on weapons for Allen, plus used multiple picks on OL help, including a 2nd in 2023 on O'Cyrus, all to help Josh Allen.  You can't draft what isn't there, they drafted based on what was available.  And as much as people are dissatisfied with Keon, there is not another outside WR that has done more than Keon or proven to be better thus far.  So the mistake was not drafting a different WR, it was not drafting Cooper DeJean, which of course would have even pissed the fan base off even more even though he would be the better pick in a redo.  

 

The only argument is that they did not draft one in 2025, but after a 2023 draft based almost entirely on offense (all picks but 2 were used on offense) and 2024 first addressing WR over say someone like Cooper DeJean, it was time to address the defense that was by far the weakest part of the team in 2024 after the offense put up the best season in franchise history leading to Allen winning MVP.  The last time our team was on the field, our defense gave up 32 to a team that had not scored 30 the entire season and was down 31-0 in their next game - while our offense averaged 29 PPG against 3 of the best defenses in the AFC in our 3 playoff games.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Just to be clear, I am arguing that we were super thin in 2022 and 2023.

 

And so those offseasons were perfect to add depth pieces that may have been ready to be contributors in 2024 and 2025. Just like we have done for LB and DL and DE and CB for their entire tenure.

 

They won’t do that for WR. And because they won’t, they are forced to pay guys like Samuel and Palmer nearly $20M total to fill holes.

 

Do I think Beane could have drafted 1-2 WRs that wouldn’t have made it necessary to throw money at Samuel and Palmer? Yes.

 

Do I think having 1-2 other rookie contract WRs and saving on Palmer and Samuel may have made a Pickens acquisition more feasible? Yes.

 

Thats why I believe it’s a compounding problem

 

Thanks for clarifying.  But no disrespect, I don't know I would start nit picking the 2022 draft that saw us take Cook in the 2nd, Bernard in the 3rd, Shakir in the 5th, Araiza in the 5th (didn't work out, but he was worthy of the pick), Benford in the 6th.  

 

2023 we used almost the whole draft on offense, including 1st, 4th, and 5th on pass catchers and our 2nd on OL help for Josh too.  Literally 4 of our first 5 picks were used on offense.  And it is known Beane tried unsuccessfully to trade up higher in that draft before the WR run, and was unsuccessful and rebuffed.  And I have first hand knowledge the Chargers were one of the teams who had no interest in trading set on Quentin.  4 WR's went off the board in a row and left us trading up for what was literally the highest graded offensive weapon still on the board in Kincaid.  And he was 100% drafted to be a weapon for Allen, to be a bonafide 2nd target weapon along side our top 5 WR Diggs.  

 

The only non day 3 pick he used on defense was Dorian Williams in the 3rd, and in his only stint starting for a partial season he led the team in tackles.  Hard to fault them for taking him there when 1st, 2nd, and our 4th (via trade up) had already been used on offense.

 

Again - you keep ignoring the context.  I am all for adding WR's too, but you just keep saying they could have done this and that without considering the real world events that actually happened.  Beane then also spent a future 3rd on Cooper, another high value draft asset on another WR which with our $31M dead cap hit was about the best case scenario given his contract was owed under $1M when we acquired him.  

 

So now add in we also spent a 2025 draft asset of a 3rd round pick also on a WR.  And I know you and most everyone here supported that trade.  We can all have revisionist theory now and say well maybe we should have held on to that 3rd and used that 3rd to draft a WR this year, but thats not what anyone was saying when the trade was made that was almost universally accepted around here.  

 

We already know 2022 was Beane's best overall draft ever, even with Elam busting.  2023 we used 3 of our picks on pass catchers, and 5 of our 7 picks on offense.  2024, we used our first pick to take a WR, in a draft that has not seen any outside WR after him be any better than Keon has.  And 2025, our defense was by far our biggest issues and our WR room upgraded the overall talent in the room compared to the 2024 group that was part of the best offense in Bills history.  

 

I respect the convo, and the different perspective.  But I do not think you are really being fair to Beane when factoring in how much he did actually invest in weapons and protection for Allen since 2022 really, and what few options he has had to legitimately replace Diggs and add to the room since the Diggs relationship blew up earlier than intended, which included saddling a cap strapped team with $31M in dead money too.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Alphadawg7