Diggs' Drama

[billsfan89]

On 9/2/2025 at 3:52 PM, RoscoeParrish said:

Brown and Beasley were great FA WRs.

 

the record since then is less that stellar.

 

They haven't since 2019 when they acquired Brown/Beasley made many moves at WR via free agency. 2020 they acquired Diggs via trade a home run in my opinion. In 2021 they signed Emmanuel Sanders for a rental and that was solid. 2022 they added Jamison Crowder and he got hurt. 2023 they signed Trent Sherfield a special teams signing and a cheap one at that. In 2024 they whiffed on Samuel but found a decent low end find in Mack Hollins. In 2025 the early returns on Palmer have been solid. 

 

Given that none of these deals were for any significant amount of money and more than 1 year deals other than Samuel and Palmer I don't think that's a bad track record. Not great but not bad at all given the circumstances. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They haven't since 2019 when they acquired Brown/Beasley made many moves at WR via free agency. 2020 they acquired Diggs via trade a home run in my opinion. In 2021 they signed Emmanuel Sanders for a rental and that was solid. 2022 they added Jamison Crowder and he got hurt. 2023 they signed Trent Sherfield a special teams signing and a cheap one at that. In 2024 they whiffed on Samuel but found a decent low end find in Mack Hollins. In 2025 the early returns on Palmer have been solid. 

 

Given that none of these deals were for any significant amount of money and more than 1 year deals other than Samuel and Palmer I don't think that's a bad track record. Not great but not bad at all given the circumstances. 

 

I would have to disagree somewhat.  While not #1 WR money, the Bills paid:
-$5.9M for 13 1/2 games, 1 1/2 playoff games from Emmanuel Sanders (45 receptions) ($131k per reception, $393k per game)
-$1.9M for 4 games, 6 receptions from Jamison Crowder ($316k per reception, $475k per game)
-$12.5M so far for (so far) 14 games, 31 receptions from Curtis Samuel ($403k per reception, $898k per game)

For comparison, Stefon Diggs was paid $78M over 4 playing years and appeared in 73 games with 398 receptions ($196k per reception, $1.07M per game not counting last year's dead cap after whatever went awry).  Something something about paying for production - Diggs was paid more per game, but a bargain on a per-reception basis vs. Crowder or Samuel)

In the same time period (2021-2024) the Bills used a 6th round pick and 2 5th round picks on WR and finally a 1st in 2024.  One has to believe that if they hadn't signed Sanders, then Crowder, then Samuel, Beane might have put a bit higher priority on acquiring WR talent in the draft.  It's a mug's game to scan the drafts and say "we coulda had this guy, we coulda had that guy" but I believe there were some guys in the 2nd-4th round 

I think we must consider the opportunity cost of trading a 3rd and paying $819k to Amari Cooper : 8 games, 20 receptions ($102k per game, $40k per reception isn't much, but the big loss was the 3rd down pick IMO.  Perhaps @JGMcD2 can help me frame how to think about that.

My opinion overall is that Beane has tried to "cheap it" a bit much at WR and the Bills offense and ability to draft have suffered for it.  And while the Diggs trade was a home run at the time, once the Bills offered him a 2nd contract and then "things fell apart" it became a problem, in the bad sense of the word.

[HurlyBurly51]

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

may we hope that child grows up knowing love and support from both of his parents.

Come on now. That's a rude way to talk about Stefon

Edited September 17 by Fan in Chicago

[fan_in_tx]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would have to disagree somewhat.  While not #1 WR money, the Bills paid:
-$5.9M for 13 1/2 games, 1 1/2 playoff games from Emmanuel Sanders (45 receptions) ($131k per reception, $393k per game)
-$1.9M for 4 games, 6 receptions from Jamison Crowder ($316k per reception, $475k per game)
-$12.5M so far for (so far) 14 games, 31 receptions from Curtis Samuel ($403k per reception, $898k per game)

For comparison, Stefon Diggs was paid $78M over 4 playing years and appeared in 73 games with 398 receptions ($196k per reception, $1.07M per game not counting last year's dead cap after whatever went awry).  Something something about paying for production - Diggs was paid more per game, but a bargain on a per-reception basis vs. Crowder or Samuel)

In the same time period (2021-2024) the Bills used a 6th round pick and 2 5th round picks on WR and finally a 1st in 2024.  One has to believe that if they hadn't signed Sanders, then Crowder, then Samuel, Beane might have put a bit higher priority on acquiring WR talent in the draft.  It's a mug's game to scan the drafts and say "we coulda had this guy, we coulda had that guy" but I believe there were some guys in the 2nd-4th round 

I think we must consider the opportunity cost of trading a 3rd and paying $819k to Amari Cooper : 8 games, 20 receptions ($102k per game, $40k per reception isn't much, but the big loss was the 3rd down pick IMO.  Perhaps @JGMcD2 can help me frame how to think about that.

My opinion overall is that Beane has tried to "cheap it" a bit much at WR and the Bills offense and ability to draft have suffered for it.  And while the Diggs trade was a home run at the time, once the Bills offered him a 2nd contract and then "things fell apart" it became a problem, in the bad sense of the word.

Good Stats but thinking we should use Targets as opposed to Receptions in this mix to really assess value...    Guess is Diggs had way more targets than Sanders with more drops or defended passes... More opportunity to better align the numbers

 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would have to disagree somewhat.  While not #1 WR money, the Bills paid:
-$5.9M for 13 1/2 games, 1 1/2 playoff games from Emmanuel Sanders (45 receptions) ($131k per reception, $393k per game)
-$1.9M for 4 games, 6 receptions from Jamison Crowder ($316k per reception, $475k per game)
-$12.5M so far for (so far) 14 games, 31 receptions from Curtis Samuel ($403k per reception, $898k per game)

For comparison, Stefon Diggs was paid $78M over 4 playing years and appeared in 73 games with 398 receptions ($196k per reception, $1.07M per game not counting last year's dead cap after whatever went awry).  Something something about paying for production - Diggs was paid more per game, but a bargain on a per-reception basis vs. Crowder or Samuel)

In the same time period (2021-2024) the Bills used a 6th round pick and 2 5th round picks on WR and finally a 1st in 2024.  One has to believe that if they hadn't signed Sanders, then Crowder, then Samuel, Beane might have put a bit higher priority on acquiring WR talent in the draft.  It's a mug's game to scan the drafts and say "we coulda had this guy, we coulda had that guy" but I believe there were some guys in the 2nd-4th round 

I think we must consider the opportunity cost of trading a 3rd and paying $819k to Amari Cooper : 8 games, 20 receptions ($102k per game, $40k per reception isn't much, but the big loss was the 3rd down pick IMO.  Perhaps @JGMcD2 can help me frame how to think about that.

My opinion overall is that Beane has tried to "cheap it" a bit much at WR and the Bills offense and ability to draft have suffered for it.  And while the Diggs trade was a home run at the time, once the Bills offered him a 2nd contract and then "things fell apart" it became a problem, in the bad sense of the word.

 

I don't think Beane has invested much at WR since 2020, that I will agree. I don't think he's done bad at WR from 2021-2024 given the relative lack of resources put into the position But I also don't think he's done well there either. I was glad to see them invest their top two picks in 2023 and 2024 into pass catchers for Josh and I am glad to see the early returns on Palmer looking solid. If Kincaid returns to his rookie year form, Keon develops, and Palmer is a solid complementary outside vet WR I think they will have assembled a good WR room esp with Shakir already being a quality slot WR and I think they will get some pop out of Moore and or Samuel here or there. 

 

But I do think the Bills should eye drafting another WR in the first three rounds in 2026. Assuming Moore and Samuel are gone they will need to keep putting in talent there.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Sorry, digressing a little bit...

 

Brown and Beasley

 

Poyer and Hyde

 

There just was a sweet spot time when Beane could not only grab free agents, but guys at reasonable numbers that were just ridiculously impactful and completely outplayed their contracts.

 

NOW it should be just because guys want to be here because of Allen, but it doesn't have the same result, other than Bosa but they are paying him and he is in the prove time of his career.

 

here's hoping they continue to take full advantage of Palmer, and bring Moore up, as well.

 

That's it.  Sorry for the tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would have to disagree somewhat.  While not #1 WR money, the Bills paid:
-$5.9M for 13 1/2 games, 1 1/2 playoff games from Emmanuel Sanders (45 receptions) ($131k per reception, $393k per game)
-$1.9M for 4 games, 6 receptions from Jamison Crowder ($316k per reception, $475k per game)
-$12.5M so far for (so far) 14 games, 31 receptions from Curtis Samuel ($403k per reception, $898k per game)

For comparison, Stefon Diggs was paid $78M over 4 playing years and appeared in 73 games with 398 receptions ($196k per reception, $1.07M per game not counting last year's dead cap after whatever went awry).  Something something about paying for production - Diggs was paid more per game, but a bargain on a per-reception basis vs. Crowder or Samuel)

In the same time period (2021-2024) the Bills used a 6th round pick and 2 5th round picks on WR and finally a 1st in 2024.  One has to believe that if they hadn't signed Sanders, then Crowder, then Samuel, Beane might have put a bit higher priority on acquiring WR talent in the draft.  It's a mug's game to scan the drafts and say "we coulda had this guy, we coulda had that guy" but I believe there were some guys in the 2nd-4th round 

I think we must consider the opportunity cost of trading a 3rd and paying $819k to Amari Cooper : 8 games, 20 receptions ($102k per game, $40k per reception isn't much, but the big loss was the 3rd down pick IMO.  Perhaps @JGMcD2 can help me frame how to think about that.

My opinion overall is that Beane has tried to "cheap it" a bit much at WR and the Bills offense and ability to draft have suffered for it.  And while the Diggs trade was a home run at the time, once the Bills offered him a 2nd contract and then "things fell apart" it became a problem, in the bad sense of the word.

Not arguing your historical accuracy, but as Beane would say, how exaclty has the offense suffered for it? I mean how many more points can they score?

 

Place the blame where it belongs - the defense. 

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They haven't since 2019 when they acquired Brown/Beasley made many moves at WR via free agency. 2020 they acquired Diggs via trade a home run in my opinion. In 2021 they signed Emmanuel Sanders for a rental and that was solid. 2022 they added Jamison Crowder and he got hurt. 2023 they signed Trent Sherfield a special teams signing and a cheap one at that. In 2024 they whiffed on Samuel but found a decent low end find in Mack Hollins. In 2025 the early returns on Palmer have been solid. 

 

Given that none of these deals were for any significant amount of money and more than 1 year deals other than Samuel and Palmer I don't think that's a bad track record. Not great but not bad at all given the circumstances. 

You forgot $9.5M for Harty over 2 yrs. Harty and Samuel were not exaclty cheap deals but not super expensive either. 

[BillsShredder83]

On 9/3/2025 at 12:49 AM, djp14150 said:

I generally agree with you...

 

Know draft rating boards they fo factor in system fit.  Buffalo playing a 4-3 D they are downgrading players whk might only be a 3-4 fit. Similarly roster needs factor in. Buffalo having Allen isn't using a 1/3 day pick  on a QB now.

 

With Watkins it was injuries that did him jn.

 

Others its just not doing well enough at the pro level.

 

What's not there yet in scouting is the ability to measure the player alone vs teammate effects

 

We've seen players drafted high that suck but then go to a new team and succeeed.  Success in league is so heavily dependant on system fit.

 

No, injuries, specifically how they lingered, were a symptom of 'No Brain Disease', significantly worse than CTE.  Dude admitted to getting drunk EVERY night!  He didnt put in any work in the film room.  Finally,

 

HE CUT HIS G*D** CAST OFF WITHOUT MEDICAL INPUT OR EVEN MEDICAL SUPERVISION!

DO YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF RARE COMPANY THAT PUTS HIM IN?  PEOPLE WHO HAVE CUT THEIR OWN CAST OFF - PEOPLE WHO HAD MEDICAL INSURANCE, LET ALONE THE LITERAL BEST IN THE WORLD?!

 

Absolutely. F'n. Bonkers!

[BillsShredder83]

6 hours ago, boyst said:

may we hope that child grows up knowing love and support from both of his or her parents.

Dude has got a major split in the road moment here... one that has forged a winning attitude in some of the greatest men ever! Or revealed to everyone and themselves the ultimate act of cowardice, immaturity and selfishness of their own character.

 

For all parties involved I hope Stef picks the right one!  Hes young enough to right the ship that is his life, relationships and attitude, and wind up a better man for it.  I can say without a doubt in my mind, I'd be proud as heck to see him pick the high road on this one!

[BillsShredder83]

38 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Not arguing your historical accuracy, but as Beane would say, how exaclty has the offense suffered for it? I mean how many more points can they score?

 

Place the blame where it belongs - the defense. 

You forgot $9.5M for Harty over 2 yrs. Harty and Samuel were not exaclty cheap deals but not super expensive either. 

Its not just points though.  Its the ease with which they do it at.  It's about extending drives that dont result in points, from 2 First Downs, to 3.  Reducing the times we go 3 and out.  More cracks at 3rd and short than 3rd and long or medium.  Having the ability to beat a team with an entire playbook.... having an entire section of a playbook left untapped when the playoffs roll around, for when you REALLY need a first down, or a drive for 3points.

 

We are regular season points kings, no doubt!  The defense in the playoffs needs to be better, but theres more than 1 way to skin a cat.  Having the defense step up and playing 10% better against KC gets it done!  But getting an extra 10% outta the offense gets it done too.  Sometimes leaning into a strength is better than spending extra time/effort/resources into something you're not good at.  There is a reason you don't go to the urologist to clean your teeth! If you know something and do it well, its a heckuva lot more valuable to increase resources at doing that thing better.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would have to disagree somewhat.  While not #1 WR money, the Bills paid:
-$5.9M for 13 1/2 games, 1 1/2 playoff games from Emmanuel Sanders (45 receptions) ($131k per reception, $393k per game)
-$1.9M for 4 games, 6 receptions from Jamison Crowder ($316k per reception, $475k per game)
-$12.5M so far for (so far) 14 games, 31 receptions from Curtis Samuel ($403k per reception, $898k per game)

For comparison, Stefon Diggs was paid $78M over 4 playing years and appeared in 73 games with 398 receptions ($196k per reception, $1.07M per game not counting last year's dead cap after whatever went awry).  Something something about paying for production - Diggs was paid more per game, but a bargain on a per-reception basis vs. Crowder or Samuel)

In the same time period (2021-2024) the Bills used a 6th round pick and 2 5th round picks on WR and finally a 1st in 2024.  One has to believe that if they hadn't signed Sanders, then Crowder, then Samuel, Beane might have put a bit higher priority on acquiring WR talent in the draft.  It's a mug's game to scan the drafts and say "we coulda had this guy, we coulda had that guy" but I believe there were some guys in the 2nd-4th round 

I think we must consider the opportunity cost of trading a 3rd and paying $819k to Amari Cooper : 8 games, 20 receptions ($102k per game, $40k per reception isn't much, but the big loss was the 3rd down pick IMO.  Perhaps @JGMcD2 can help me frame how to think about that.

My opinion overall is that Beane has tried to "cheap it" a bit much at WR and the Bills offense and ability to draft have suffered for it.  And while the Diggs trade was a home run at the time, once the Bills offered him a 2nd contract and then "things fell apart" it became a problem, in the bad sense of the word.

 

This isn't how these things are graded though.  Every top end WR is going to look cheap on a per catch basis because of the volume difference.  And all teams have these exact same mathematical discrepancies in this regard.

 

 

[Yobogoya!]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Sorry, digressing a little bit...

 

Brown and Beasley

 

Poyer and Hyde

 

There just was a sweet spot time when Beane could not only grab free agents, but guys at reasonable numbers that were just ridiculously impactful and completely outplayed their contracts.

Poyer and Hyde were Whaley. 
 

Brown and Bease were Beane’s first free agent class, and definitely still among his best pickups. 

[Ralonzo]

56 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

There is a reason you don't go to the urologist to clean your teeth!

You don't?

[PonyBoy]

Well I guess when Diggs  starting dating her a baby was in the "Cardi's" 😉

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

Well I guess when Diggs  starting dating her a baby was in the "Cardi's" 😉

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

3 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

Well I guess when Diggs  starting dating her a baby was in the "Cardi's" 😉

[nuklz2594]

Waiting for the reality show steph cardi,and child. Wish them well but just saying...

[YoloinOhio]

Wait … so he also got someone else pregnant this year? When he told Tyreek he wanted to get like him I thought he was referring to SBs

Edited September 18 by YoloinOhio

[Mr. WEO]

On 9/17/2025 at 4:47 PM, dollars 2 donuts said:

Sorry, digressing a little bit...

 

Brown and Beasley

 

Poyer and Hyde

 

There just was a sweet spot time when Beane could not only grab free agents, but guys at reasonable numbers that were just ridiculously impactful and completely outplayed their contracts.

 

NOW it should be just because guys want to be here because of Allen, but it doesn't have the same result, other than Bosa but they are paying him and he is in the prove time of his career.

 

here's hoping they continue to take full advantage of Palmer, and bring Moore up, as well.

 

That's it.  Sorry for the tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brown 1.0 played 24 games total of 1500 yards fir over 25 million 

 

not a value play