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Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs


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37 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

The QB protection rules have done more to extend QBs tenures than anything else.  Put anyone of those QBs in the Marino/Kelly/Elway era and they would be done by 35 too..  

Ok but the argument was about Mcnabb. I wasn't comparing them to Kelly or Marino era.

 

Mcnabb basically played in the same era from all the guys I listed

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18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

To paraphrase Josh Allen's father:

 

"Bloom where you are planted"

 

For the Bills, that is on the right arm of Josh Allen.

 

For perspective.......this is how the Chiefs did it.

 

The Chiefs reached their first 3 AFC championship games(and 2 SB's) on the strength of what could be perceived as "over-investment" in surrounding Mahomes with talent.   Those versions of the Chiefs defense were not so good.   In fact, the 2018 D was arguably the worst in the NFL and they still took the AFCCG to OT and would have been the SB favorite had they reached it.

 

Those Chiefs already had two 1,000 yard receiving targets in Hill and Kelce when they made Sammy Watkins the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL.

 

Once they won a SB and dominated the AFC for 3 seasons the decisions they could make and still succeed were much different.   Now they enter most playoff games with all the pressure on the opposition.   And it shows.   They walk off the bus with the lead because of the psychological advantage.   Most of the changes they've made aren't because they are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers........they are made because Chiefs ownership is just being thrifty and getting away with it.

 

The Bills are still in the development stage the Chiefs were in 2018-2019.

 

The closest they've been to a SB was 2020.........with their most talented offense and least talented defense of the past 4 years.

 

And with all due respect to Joe Marino...........the Chiefs basically never sack Josh Allen either.   It would be nice to take Mahomes down more and to me the reason that they don't is because their defense lacks the ability to adapt to their opponent as well as some others(including Spag's Chiefs).

 

But the answer is pretty clear, IMO..........if you want to break thru and get to and win a SB the way to do it is by giving Allen everything he needs around him and then some.

 

 

It’s no different than the Pats. 
 

The 2018 Pats team that went to the SB were FAR less talented than the 2018 Rams team. But they had a relatively inexperienced young coach and young QB and they mentally fell completely apart when faced with a good defensive gameplan.

 

Tom Brady won that Super Bowl without scoring a touchdown. 
 

It was a mental struggle, and the Pats won the game before they stepped on the field.

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Posted (edited)

I like Joe Marino, but it seems like his roster construction typically leans heavier towards Defense, so I'm not surprised to hear this is his takeaway. 

 

We can worry about getting to Mahomes all we want, but the last two times we played him in the Playoffs we were missing key guys, and in last year's case, somewhat decimated across the board.  Still had a chance if our coaches don't mangle 13 seconds and Dion Dawkins holds his ground for a split second longer.

 

I don't necessarily see healthy defenses like the Ravens or Niners doing what's necessary against KC.  Main difference between them and us lately has been health… which helps lead to his point about Mahomes. 

 

Also.. it's obvious.. Officials allow more OL holding in the Playoffs - across the board.

 

Only team I've seen slow down Mahomes (sans a decimated OL vs TB) was CIN.... so can Babich be Lou Anarumo?  Because that's the guy that slowed down Mahomes. 
 

 

 

Edited by SCBills
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3 hours ago, NewEra said:

This thread off to the same start as every other thread-  sadness brigade 

McDermott sucks-  we get it.  Maybe you should start a mcdermott sucks thread and keep all the same regurgitated material there so we don’t have to read it in every other thread.  

The OP I was responding to initially was about offensive investment vs prioritizing the defense as Marino suggested. So instead of whining about regurgitated material maybe ask yourself why it's an absolute inevitability that discussions about the Bills playoff fortunes always come back to McDermott.

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2 hours ago, Sweats said:

KC seems to have a "2nd gear" come playoff time and we've got a sieve for a D.........do the math.

and yet the point differential was a FG.

11 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Still had a chance if our coaches don't mangle 13 seconds and Dion Dawkins holds his ground for a split second longer.

We also should credit Chris Jones for tipping that sure TD by Josh Allen that would have won the game for the Bills

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17 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

We have to fire McDermott. 

 

At what point do Bills fans come to the conclusion that we will NEVER beat an Andy Reid team in the playoffs with McDermott at the helm ?

 

I'm very sorry 

They should give him at least 15 years to try after all he is such a likeable person. Am I right? This message is loaded with sarcasm btw

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1 hour ago, ganesh said:

and yet the point differential was a FG.

We also should credit Chris Jones for tipping that sure TD by Josh Allen that would have won the game for the Bills

 

Even if it was a TD I don't know if the Bills would have won. Wasn't there like 1:40 left on the clock if I remember correctly. Mahomes probably drives right down the field with a good chance at getting a GW TD. The Bills defense was having trouble stopping them.

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17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Umm unless your name is Tom Brady plenty of quarterbacks fall off at 33 or 34 lmao especially back in the day when you are allowed to punish quarterbacks

 

Including our own Jim Kelly

 

Donovan McNabb was really f****** good... 35,000 yards , 230 touchdowns 

 

Strong , mobile.. and a winner... This is Ludacris that people try to downplay Donovan McNabb

Wow never heard such praise for McNabb.  He was good.  But not nearly at the level you are yapping about!  Didn't he lose to Tampa like four years in a row in the playoffs?  And I don't think TO thought very much of him.  LOL

 

I liked Donavan McNabb's game.  But would take Phillip Rivers and Randall Cunningham both over him.  Just my personal opinion having watched them all play a lot of football.  

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18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yep...since the day Josh was drafted, the Bills have failed miserably in finding an elite pass rusher. Just a whole bunch of tier 2 and tier 3 Jags and a HOFer who probably had a career ending injury. 

 

You could argue their best pass rushers since we got Josh were Kyle Williams here exactly 1 year and Jerry Hughes who was on the tail end of his career

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2 hours ago, warrior9 said:

But what is the breaking point man? We don’t have a bad roster. We have an elite QB. A top 5 defense perennially. Usually when a QB (Rodgers , Brees, etc) doesn’t win a SB defense is holding them back. It’s happening with us in the playoffs only which with McD being a D head coach makes it all the more infuriating. McCarthy was absolutely holding the Packers back and I think he’s one of the worst HC of all time in clock management / game management. I don’t want to go down that route where we are “satisfied” for 13 years because we win in the regular season.  

I understand your frustration.  But I also think if you step back and really look at it logically they are not that far off, in fact I will say maybe a little unlucky.  Nobody in the NFL plays the Chiefs better than the Bills consistently.  In 7 matchups McD/Allen and Reid/Mahomes is 4-3 in favor of the Chiefs.  The problem is the playoff losses.  The last two were coin flip games.  Is the defense bad in those games?  Yep and you are right that is where they need to get better.  It is not 15 number 1 WR's.  Marino broke it down well.   The breaking point for most fans is gone but they are not making the decisions.  But if we listen to the fans we would have 5-6 head coaches each year, a bunch would be fired during halftime.  I think you have to be willing to look a little deeper "lost in playoffs 4 times fire coach"

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1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I understand your frustration.  But I also think if you step back and really look at it logically they are not that far off, in fact I will say maybe a little unlucky.  Nobody in the NFL plays the Chiefs better than the Bills consistently.  In 7 matchups McD/Allen and Reid/Mahomes is 4-3 in favor of the Chiefs.  The problem is the playoff losses.  The last two were coin flip games.  Is the defense bad in those games?  Yep and you are right that is where they need to get better.  It is not 15 number 1 WR's.  Marino broke it down well.   The breaking point for most fans is gone but they are not making the decisions.  But if we listen to the fans we would have 5-6 head coaches each year, a bunch would be fired during halftime.  I think you have to be willing to look a little deeper "lost in playoffs 4 times fire coach"

 

the Bengals are 3-1 vs Mahomes and the Chiefs overall, .500 in the playoffs

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4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

No im not a "Super Bowl is a quarterback stat kind of guy".

 

Yet you are making it that way in your Reid discussion.

 

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

But when Andy constantly gets to the nfl championship games and even a SB, but just couldn't get over the hump and then when he leaves and Mcnabb goes to complete s hit? And then andy wins 3 rings with an elite QB?

 

This is not reality...this is not even close to what happened.  See below. 

 

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

I don't think it's that hard to put the pieces to the puzzle here.

 

Like is Bill belichick a crap coach because he can't win a playoff game without an elite QB?

 

I was fine agreeing to disagree, but everything you just said is completely wrong.

  1. Eagles traded McNabb for his 13th season at the end of his career while Andy Reid was still the HC for 3 more years.  So McNabb did NOT go to s*** because Reid LEFT, McNabb left first and retired shortly after as it was the end of his career. 
  2. McNabbs last season in Philly Eagles were 11-5
  3. Reid had a losing record in the 3 years after McNabb left and was fired in 2012 after going 4-12.
  4. The very next season after Reid led them to 4-12 and got fired, the Eagles went 10-6 and back in the playoffs.  

So the ACTUAL facts are is that Reid and his time in Philly went to s*** after McNabb left and Michael Vick took over and rejuvenated his career in Philly, but they won less games than they did when McNabb was there despite Vicks numbers being similar to McNabbs.  Reids record got worse every year after McNabb until he was fired in 2012 with a 4-12 record.  

 

Sorry, but you keep wanting to go down this rabbit hole, it is just not the hole you think it Is.  

 

 

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Gotta hit Mahomes.  This past season without Milano and Benard there was no answer for Kelce.  Kelce is getting older.  Contain Kelce and hit Mahomes.  Do both of those and you win the game.  

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Be healthier and be at home.

 

Does anyone really think the 05-06 Hurricanes were better than the Sabres?  No.

 

Am I making excuses?  No, I am citing the reason and fact.  We were FUBAR by kickoff of that game, regardless of our sometimes sus receiving #1 and #2.

 

Want to worry about somebody?  I will always worry about Cincy more than the Chiefs.

 

Why?  We.  Haven't.  Beaten. Them. Yet.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I understand your frustration.  But I also think if you step back and really look at it logically they are not that far off, in fact I will say maybe a little unlucky.  Nobody in the NFL plays the Chiefs better than the Bills consistently.  In 7 matchups McD/Allen and Reid/Mahomes is 4-3 in favor of the Chiefs.  The problem is the playoff losses.  The last two were coin flip games.  Is the defense bad in those games?  Yep and you are right that is where they need to get better.  It is not 15 number 1 WR's.  Marino broke it down well.   The breaking point for most fans is gone but they are not making the decisions.  But if we listen to the fans we would have 5-6 head coaches each year, a bunch would be fired during halftime.  I think you have to be willing to look a little deeper "lost in playoffs 4 times fire coach"

That’s fine but McDermott has beaten 1 starting QB in play offs, never won on the road and has never beaten a 1-4 seed. 
 

so what is the breaking point when you realize he isn’t the guy for your team?

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15 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

That’s fine but McDermott has beaten 1 starting QB in play offs, never won on the road and has never beaten a 1-4 seed. 
 

so what is the breaking point when you realize he isn’t the guy for your team?

Phillip Rivers, Mac Jones and Lamar Jackson are all starters, not sure I understand your point.  Do you mean elite QB's?

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19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is Ludacris that people try to downplay Donovan McNabb

Donovan McNabb was a great QB.

Patrick Mahomes is a once-a-generation talent who has put Andy Reid over the top.

Both statements are true.

 

Andy should thank Sean in his HOF ceremony for trading him Mahomes.

 

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13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I don't completely agree with that as I think Mahomes has been just as good as Allen in the last two Divisional Round games.

 

Look at the degree of difficulty though. In the 13 seconds game Mahomes tosses a slant to Tyreek Hill that he runs in for a 65 yard TD. Allen is dodging free rushers and launching a 60 yard pinpoint bomb over the entire defense. Not much different this past divisional round. Mahomes is calmly standing back and finding a wide open target on every single play while Allen is standing on his head doing magic tricks just to move the ball forward 5 yards at a time.

 

It's not Mahomes' fault that he has had an easier time in those matchups and he's certainly made the most of those opportunities but I give Allen the edge in those matchups because he has gotten his team so close to winning despite objectively much more unfavorable circumstances.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, FireChans said:

Oh I had nothing to disagree with, just making the point.

 

In my book, taking over a more talented team as an HC AND finding a franchise QB sooner should be a recipe to be MORE successful FASTER. The argument that @Buffalo716 is making is the opposite.

 

I don't think we can point to a team in history that was worse off because their coach took over a more talented team and found their franchise QB faster. Maybe McD and the Bills broke the mold in that regard.

You're completely distorting my point.. 

 

My point has always been Patrick mahomes took over a contending team... Ready to win big games ... Andy Reid built the roster into a contender while he had Alex Smith.. transitioned to mahomes with a team ready to win

 

Josh Allen did not take over a team ready to win big games and the team had to grow with him 

 

That is a point that is 100% true... The bills Josh Allen's rookie year were not ready to win

 

They weren't really ready to win big games his second year either..

 

Patrick mahomes got a team ready to win Year One.. Josh Allen's team wasn't ready to win till year 3

 

You can't dispute that and that has been my point... The Bills team grew with Josh Allen into a contender 

 

Patrick mahomes got a contender

 

 

 

Edited by Buffalo716
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