GunnerBill Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, Turk71 said: You are welcome to your opinion and I hope he is a good center. I'm not confident that the line will be as good as last year, and definitely not confident they can stay healthy all season like last year. I consider last year's line somewhere in the middle....average. Average is the same as really good for the Bills... He was good at guard. I don't think you can just say "he will be as good at center" it needs to be proven. He has played it some though and Edwards who would come in at guard in that scenario started at guard on a Superbowl team. And there is the potential for year 2 growth from Torrence. I see a route to the line being better (unlike safety where I see no route) but it shouldn't be considered a slam dunk that it is and if they get a shot at a high calibre tackle early they should take them IMO and work out the best 5 from there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was good at guard. I don't think you can just say "he will be as good at center" it needs to be proven. He has played it some though and Edwards who would come in at guard in that scenario started at guard on a Superbowl team. And there is the potential for year 2 growth from Torrence. I see a route to the line being better (unlike safety where I see no route) but it shouldn't be considered a slam dunk that it is and if they get a shot at a high calibre tackle early they should take them IMO and work out the best 5 from there. I'm hoping Edwards is an upgrade at guard and I'm crossing my fingers for Torrence to progress rapidly. The center and depth are my biggest concerns. I have to admit, your insistence that he was good gives me a little more hope, even if I don't share such a high opinion. I'd like the line to keep getting better Edited March 25 by Turk71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, Turk71 said: I'm hoping Edwards is an upgrade at guard and I'm crossing my fingers for Torrence to progress rapidly. The center and depth are my biggest concerns. I have to admit, your insistence that he was good gives me a little more hope, even if I don't share such a high opinion. I'd like the line to keep getting better McGovern was better than Torrence, for sure. Torrence was a beast for the first 6 weeks but his performance dropped off after that. He was slightly below average overall but not bad for a rookie and with a full offseason in an NFL strength and conditioning programme and hopefully a bit of technique work on his weakness against speed rushers to his inside shoulder (which teams just kept going at once it was on film) I'm hopeful he can take a step and sustain his top level of performance for a full year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherMan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 15 hours ago, FireChans said: I am not really sure why folks care so much about trying to pretend the Bills are a better football. We still have Josh. It doesn't really matter. How Bills fans, that suffered through the drought and Brady kicking our teeth in every year, have somehow forgotten that a great QB matters infinitely more than the talent level of the other 52 spots is one of life's biggest mysteries. Then hopefully the melon farmer can get it done, eh? Because we know nobody else on the roster is gonna do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 19 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: I read many posts saying this team has taken a step back and truth is we have not. Lets break it down. Offense: QB = Same RB = Same WR = Improved. Samuel IS an upgrade over Davis OL = Same/ slightly improved Morse was old, and light in the butt. McGovern is younger and has played center and been prepping for this moment TE = Improved. Kincaid now has a year of experience and will hit the weight room OC = improved. I cant wait to see his own system implemented So the offense is slightly improved. Defense: DL = Same to slightly improved. We are all praying Von improves, and so far I feel we have improved our depth. We need to increase pass rush through the draft. LB = Improved. We will get Milano back and our other LB's greatly stepped up CB: = Slightly Improved. Douglas now has time in our system and a full offseason to get it down. Benford has another year and hopefully the new DB coach can help Elam Safety: = Slightly improved. This is the one position I expect hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth on, but Hyde and Poyer were showing their age badly last year. I say the two new starters just have to be smart (keep your damn head and eyes up Rapp!) and be in the right position at the right time and tackle. Defense = Same to slightly improved Do we still need WR, esp. Diggs replacement and an upgrade, yes. Do we still need to use draft picks on the Defense, Absolutely. We are always looking to improve, but we are no where near as bad off as some fans, and media, want to make it out to be. I agree about safety. As much as we all love Poyer and Hyde they were slowing down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 19 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: I read many posts saying this team has taken a step back and truth is we have not. Lets break it down. Offense: QB = Same RB = Same WR = Improved. Samuel IS an upgrade over Davis OL = Same/ slightly improved Morse was old, and light in the butt. McGovern is younger and has played center and been prepping for this moment TE = Improved. Kincaid now has a year of experience and will hit the weight room OC = improved. I cant wait to see his own system implemented So the offense is slightly improved. Defense: DL = Same to slightly improved. We are all praying Von improves, and so far I feel we have improved our depth. We need to increase pass rush through the draft. LB = Improved. We will get Milano back and our other LB's greatly stepped up CB: = Slightly Improved. Douglas now has time in our system and a full offseason to get it down. Benford has another year and hopefully the new DB coach can help Elam Safety: = Slightly improved. This is the one position I expect hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth on, but Hyde and Poyer were showing their age badly last year. I say the two new starters just have to be smart (keep your damn head and eyes up Rapp!) and be in the right position at the right time and tackle. Defense = Same to slightly improved Do we still need WR, esp. Diggs replacement and an upgrade, yes. Do we still need to use draft picks on the Defense, Absolutely. We are always looking to improve, but we are no where near as bad off as some fans, and media, want to make it out to be. Sooner, I agree with most of what you wrote, although still a bit nervous will it all come together. Hopefully everyone read the cap space article from Beane’s interview yesterday as it’s in today’s news on the main page. We basically have $7 mil, which is basically what’s needed for the draft and an emergency fund. We’ll get 10 mil. In June from Tre’s release. I don’t know if we could wait to use that on free agents going on the PS or use now. The point is we have to rely on the draft for filling the gaps. Some people think Beane is not a good drat person, but that is not a definite as some posters cherry pick the draft misses. It’s true he’s missed in some and he’s also hit on some of the later picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 The question needs to be "Are we improving our roster". Let's face it, if we want to get to the Super Bowl our roster has to improve, not remain at the same level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 comes down to coaching and injuries as long as we have Allen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I agree about safety. As much as we all love Poyer and Hyde they were slowing down. Agreed. For some there’s always something to worry about. A couple mid-30 year old safeties, one who signed for a 1 year $2m deal and the other who’d probably be lucky to get that doesn’t register high on the list. Replacing Floyd’s production seems like more legitimate gripe but he seemed to really tail off at end of year after he blew the Denver game. Even though Morse was getting up there in age, any time you re-shuffle an O-Line that was playing well is a concern and Morse did get scooped up right away for decent money. Gonna have to just trust McBeane on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Of course we’ve taken a step back! Haven’t you seen we have a thread on here on it’s 16th page about how Josh didn’t rent a trailer in the off season to live outside the Bills practice facility and hasn’t worked on his pass rush skills to help the defense. So I don’t see where your optimism is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillenger4 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 21 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: I read many posts saying this team has taken a step back and truth is we have not. Lets break it down. Offense: QB = Same RB = Same WR = Improved. Samuel IS an upgrade over Davis OL = Same/ slightly improved Morse was old, and light in the butt. McGovern is younger and has played center and been prepping for this moment TE = Improved. Kincaid now has a year of experience and will hit the weight room OC = improved. I cant wait to see his own system implemented So the offense is slightly improved. Defense: DL = Same to slightly improved. We are all praying Von improves, and so far I feel we have improved our depth. We need to increase pass rush through the draft. LB = Improved. We will get Milano back and our other LB's greatly stepped up CB: = Slightly Improved. Douglas now has time in our system and a full offseason to get it down. Benford has another year and hopefully the new DB coach can help Elam Safety: = Slightly improved. This is the one position I expect hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth on, but Hyde and Poyer were showing their age badly last year. I say the two new starters just have to be smart (keep your damn head and eyes up Rapp!) and be in the right position at the right time and tackle. Defense = Same to slightly improved Do we still need WR, esp. Diggs replacement and an upgrade, yes. Do we still need to use draft picks on the Defense, Absolutely. We are always looking to improve, but we are no where near as bad off as some fans, and media, want to make it out to be. Like the optimism, but there is a lot of praying and hoping going on in your post. If we are praying and hoping - we are cooked. I hope you are correct with your dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortchaz Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said: Nothing like an opening night loss to the jets to smash those 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He was good at guard. I don't think you can just say "he will be as good at center" it needs to be proven. He has played it some though and Edwards who would come in at guard in that scenario started at guard on a Superbowl team. And there is the potential for year 2 growth from Torrence. I see a route to the line being better (unlike safety where I see no route) but it shouldn't be considered a slam dunk that it is and if they get a shot at a high calibre tackle early they should take them IMO and work out the best 5 from there. I agree with this. I don't see how we can just assume center is taken care of. Guy hasn't played there, so we simply can't know. And I don't think we can assume much of anything about Edwards, either. It all might work out, it makes sense, I get it, but it's two changes on the offensive line, two changes from a line that performed well last season. And I absolutely agree about safety. I don't see how they've gotten better there. Rapp wasn't better last season than either of the two vets, and I don't think Edwards was either. I'm one who believes more help is coming, and it won't be a rookie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 talk to me mid October, I'll let you know what steps we've taken backwards or forwards... Unitl then nobody here knows. They have a feeling or an opinion but do not know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrochester55 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) Center, Safety and Defensive End are the three biggest question marks. We lost experience and leadership in those position and there is no guarantee that the replacements can fill that void. McDermott has a strategy of finding veteran at low prices in free agency after being silent on Day 1. Given the cap situation, I was pleasantly surprised with who we brought in. Now we see if they fit the system. Maybe our signings are the next Beasley, Hyde or Poyer. Maybe they end up replacement level or worse like Saffold, Addison or Sherfield. Whether or not we took a step back depends on what our signings bring to the table. The Free agent signings over the last 7 years are mixed in level of success, so are the drafts for that matter. We have no way of knowing how it pans out until the season. Edited March 25 by dgrochester55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 22 hours ago, NI Bills Fan said: I agree to an extent and like the positivity, but find it hard to agree on the D Line and safety positions, we need a pass rush threat at DE (to replace Floyd) and a bit more at safety before I could say we've actually improved there. We do. His name is Von Miller. 😆 Nah, I'm just kidding, brother. I just thought you'd like that on a Monday morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amprov56 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 22 hours ago, That's No Moon said: That certainly is the optimistic way of looking at it. Optimism is always better than pessimism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 i agree we have not taken a step back..... but neither has half the league... in fact, i think the 2024 team will be better than 2023 and beane isn't even done improving. need to wait and see how this things shake out for everyone. but according to neutral las vegas betting odds....bills currently have the 4th best chance to win it....which is pretty darn good, but probably where we were last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Not real sure about the LB depth . I heard Greg Cosell say on 1 Bills Live that the LB they picked up from Philly was not really good last year, hopefully with the coaches here he can improve but is more than likely just a ST's & depth player . If one of the starters go down though if he is as bad as Cosell says then he could be a player to worry about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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