PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[BillsfaninCT]

I'm still trying to figure out how it's possible for the new stadium to double the value of individual viewing angles of the game.... it's not like the seats are super relevant at a bills game when the bills are relevant, stand the whole game when it's being played.

 

well, i guess the seats do matter then because 1/2 of the total time is commercial and replay reviews these days lol... still not worth double.

 

I guess all the value is about everything except the game itself and in my opinion buffalo didn't need that, the entertainment is served outside the stadium before and after the game in the parking lot, this isn't NYC.

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, BillsfaninCT said:

I'm still trying to figure out how it's possible for the new stadium to double the value of individual viewing angles of the game.... it's not like the seats are super relevant at a bills game when the bills are relevant, stand the whole game when it's being played.

 

well, i guess the seats do matter then because 1/2 of the total time is commercial and replay reviews these days lol... still not worth double.

 

I guess all the value is about everything except the game itself and in my opinion buffalo didn't need that, the entertainment is served outside the stadium before and after the game in the parking lot, this isn't NYC.

 

Well, the new PSL owners will be sitting on their gold fleece orthopedic pillows 

[SoCal Deek]

51 minutes ago, mrags said:

They have raised their prices. I’d say 10% every other year for the last 8 years or so. 
 

my first year in the clubs was last year but before that I was in the end zones and from what I remember the tickets when I started in 06 were around $440/ticket for the year. By the time I left last year I’m pretty sure they were close to double that. We’ve definitely seen price increases over the years. 
 

imo, people are mostly angry about the PSLs. Now that I’ve looked into it more. They aren’t very bad. Even the 15-20k ones. For example, I pay approx 1k/seat now in PSL in the clubs. I just pay it every year with my season tickets, not all at once for the next 30 years. Really isn’t that terrible tho if you look at it like that. That’s where the 10 year payment plan works for most people. The interest isn’t terrible considering. Of course I don’t want to be forced to have to pay all 30 years up front. 

Thanks for sharing the information. I am obviously not an expert on the stadium’s ticket pricing history. If what you’re saying is true then the team should have no problem filling the seats or getting their allotment of repeat season ticket holders. Of course if that’s true then there’s no need for this thread to be up to 40 plus pages. 😉

[mrags]

26 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks for sharing the information. I am obviously not an expert on the stadium’s ticket pricing history. If what you’re saying is true then the team should have no problem filling the seats or getting their allotment of repeat season ticket holders. Of course if that’s true then there’s no need for this thread to be up to 40 plus pages. 😉

Well. Of course some people are dropping. I found that apparent when I was able to move my season tickets this year to a better part of the clubs. Surprised there was as many relocation options that were available to me. At least compared to last year. 
 

I knew I paid PSLs for my correct seats but couldn’t remember how much. Then when I relocated and looked at the contract I saw that it was $985/seat this season and went up to $1005 next year. 
 

but I definitely remember paying only $440 a year for my season tix. It was near $800 by the time I moved last year. Same exact seats. Nothing changed. From 06-23 that’s the increase. It’s quite a long time for that change, but I didn’t remember there being any large increases until the mid 2000 teens. 

[Just Jack]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The marketing mistake the Bills made was linking the new prices to the new stadium. They should’ve been raising prices throughout the years so the sticker shock wouldn’t have been so immediate. I’m was on the Board of an HOA a few years back and I would regularly advocate for raising the monthly dues to keep up with inflation. The majority of the Board wanted to delay things so they’d let the deficit pile up and hit all the residents with a significant increase every three or four years. That increase was predictably followed by a lot of teeth gnashing and ire cast at the Board for mismanagement. 

 

I've had club seats since 2004, I'd have to look up how much I was paying back then for an exact number, but I feel my price has almost doubled since I got them.  It's still below what is being reported for the new stadium.  I'm pretty sure I will not be able to afford what they will call "equal" seats since I'm at the top end of what I'm comfortable paying currently.  Still waiting on my invite to the show. 

[papazoid]

When the new stadium opens in the fall of 2026, those in attendance may notice that the seating concourse is a little steeper than the current stadium. This is due to the new seating setup at the new Highmark being angled at 34 degrees, compared to the current 28-degree design the Bills use. 

 

With the new design, it brings fans closer to the game. Literally. The Bills say that fans who sit in the last row of the general concourse will be 54 feet closer to the field than they are at the current stadium. (which makes sense because there are less seats. where they grow the footprint is wider concourses outside the viewing area)

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-details/71-50e82fd3-1bf9-4adc-9592-3452bdc7f84d

 

(i saw another article that said the new stadium will be 50 feet higher)

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-new-stadium-size-plans-seats-plans-highmark-stadium#:~:text=While the new stadium - expected to open,with deeper and higher seats (50 feet higher).

 

 

Edited April 7 by papazoid

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

When the new stadium opens in the fall of 2026, those in attendance may notice that the seating concourse is a little steeper than the current stadium. This is due to the new seating setup at the new Highmark being angled at 34 degrees, compared to the current 28-degree design the Bills use. 

 

With the new design, it brings fans closer to the game. Literally. The Bills say that fans who sit in the last row of the general concourse will be 54 feet closer to the field than they are at the current stadium. (which makes sense because there are less seats. where they grow the footprint is wider concourses outside the viewing area)

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-details/71-50e82fd3-1bf9-4adc-9592-3452bdc7f84d

The stadium is taller because of all the piles of money the Pegulas are stacking up in the new stadium. 

[Just Jack]

49 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Just FYI - You have not paid PSL’s for your current seats. The Bills do not have PSL’s at the current stadium. Not in the clubs or anywhere else.

 

You’ve repeated this misinformation so many times in this thread, despite being told that it’s not true, that I called the Bills ticket office last week to ask, and they confirmed that no-one has ever paid a PSL at the current stadium.

 

 

The have Club Seat Licenses that we pay every year.  Same animal, different name.  

 

EDIT: here's mine 

Edited April 7 by Just Jack

[Einstein]

45 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

The have Club Seat Licenses that we pay every year.  Same animal, different name.  

 

They’re very different. Apples and oranges.

 

The club seat is essentially a ticket fee. They are a per year charge (PSL’s are a 30 year charge with a one-time fee) and the club seats can be cancelled at any time (PSL’s can’t) without paying any charge for a further 3 years. They also can’t be sold (PSL’s can), and there is no double taxation (PSL’s do).

 

Theyre completely different animals.

Really the only way they are similar is they cost money.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Einstein

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The marketing mistake the Bills have made in this shameful timeshare style sales process.

 

I’ve dug into the history of the past 8 or so stadiums built, and as far as my research has lead me, no other teams have done this. It’s completely out of left field.

 

They created no hype, spent zero time getting people excited, and then chose the absolute worst sales process imaginable, with the highest negative connotations. This is a textbook case of what NOT to do.

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

[Just Jack]

5 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

I haven't found that answer, but here is an article about their stadium the first few years after opening and PSL's/ticket sales.  

 

How The Dallas Cowboys Lost The Home-Field Advantage (texasobserver.org)

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

Not that ive seen. Edit; The Falcons had a PSL preview center too, but I don’t know if it was required or just a perk.

 

I have traced back the announcements of the previous decade of new stadiums that I could find, and when the PSL’s were announced, nearly all of them had full write-ups of exactly what was included, how much they would cost in various parts of the stadiums, etc.

This was in addition to releasing dozens of renderings and introducing features and advertising benefits of the new stadium.

 

None that I can find have done this shut-lips, timeshare style presentation, with a purposeful restriction of renderings.

 

The Bills are breaking the mold with this process.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Einstein

[Just Jack]

33 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

Legends did sell for the 49ers, but not sure if they did an experience center.  They are also signed up to sell for the new Washington stadium. And the Oakland A's new stadium in Las Vegas. Legends team up with A’s on new ballpark - Coliseum (coliseum-online.com)

 

EDIT: Legends did sell for the Falcons... AMBSE to Expand Relationship With Legends (atlantafalcons.com)

 

 

The Falcons did have a center, and the Titans will have a center...

 

Falcons... New Stadium Reserve Seat PSL Sales to Start (atlantafalcons.com)

Quote

All current season ticket holders will have the first opportunity to visit the state-of-the-art new stadium preview center and meet with a dedicated sales consultant to learn more about the seat selection process.  Fans who are not current season ticket holders will have the opportunity to purchase season tickets for the new stadium by joining the waitlist.

 

Titans... Titans President and CEO Burke Nihill Discusses What's Next for New Stadium, Which is Expected to Open in 2027 (tennesseetitans.com)

Quote

Nihill said a PSL Experience Center will be built in Germantown, and it's expected to open in March 2024. Fans will have a technology experience where they'll be able to see what their seats would look like, and it's where the PSL transactions will take place.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Just Jack

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The marketing mistake the Bills have made in this shameful timeshare style sales process.

 

I’ve dug into the history of the past 8 or so stadiums built, and as far as my research has lead me, no other teams have done this. It’s completely out of left field.

 

They created no hype, spent zero time getting people excited, and then chose the absolute worst sales process imaginable, with the highest negative connotations. This is a textbook case of what NOT to do.

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Not that i’ve seen.

 

I have traced back the announcements of the previous decade of new stadiums, and when the PSL’s were announced, nearly all of them had full write-ups of exactly what was included, how much they would cost in various parts of the stadiums, etc.

This was in addition to releasing dozens of renderings and introducing features and advertising benefits of the new stadium.

 

None that I can find have done this shut-lips, timeshare style presentation, with a purposeful restriction of renderings.

 

The Bills are breaking the mold with this process.

Do you have season club seats?

[Mr Info]

32 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

I have posted this elsewhere but some may have missed it due to the length of this thread. My Bills Experience was on Tuesday, March 19.

 

i was a bit surprised at the PSL price and was not ready to commit at that time but requested the PSL agreement doc from my rep. She sent it a couple days later and I reviewed it. Fortunately, the PSL expense fit in my entertainment budget so called my rep back to reserve club seats. Unfortunately, the seats that were shown during my experience were no longer available so selected 2 others that my rep showed in a virtual view. 

 

I had 2 reps during my presentation and both were nice and cordial and I never felt any pressure like a ‘time share’ presentation would entail.

 

I am attaching a link to the PSL Agreement that I received and signed. I have whited out any personal info. 

 

Some on this thread have such animosity toward the Bills, the owner, and the PSL process. If PSLs are not for you, then I hope you are able to secure individual game tix to those games you would like to attend in 2026.
 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:f4c5e14f-8131-435b-8867-a28937564e2f

[Just Jack]

18 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Do you have season club seats?

 

I have the feeling that several people that post regularly in this thread do not have seasons of any type, and just like to argue.  

[Einstein]

42 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Do you have season club seats?

 

Not anymore.

Moved from Jim Kelly Club to M&T club (all exclusive with buffet)

[Mike in Horseheads]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not anymore.

Moved from Jim Kelly Club to M&T club (all exclusive with buffet)

So if you don't have them then why are you on this constant crusade of bitchin about the process?

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

So if you don't have them then why are you on this constant crusade of bitchin about the process?

 

Not sure if you know this (genuinely) but PSL’s do not simply exist in the clubs. They exist in the entire stadium (including the area where I will sit).

 

That being said, I’m not “bitchin”. I am simply speaking truth to the situation. Many attempt to apply an emotion to my posts, but the truth is that I have very few feels on what I post. There are facts, there are numbers, and there is analysis based upon those facts and numbers.

 

Whoever wishes to purchase a PSL should do so. Their choice has no impact on me.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

[Mike in Horseheads]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not sure if you know this (genuinely) but PSL’s do not simply exist in the clubs. They exist in the entire stadium (including the area where I will sit).

 

That being said, I’m not “bitchin”. I am simply speaking truth to the situation. Many attempt to apply an emotion to my posts, but the truth is that I have very few feels on what I post. There are facts, there are numbers, and there is analysis based upon those facts and numbers.

 

Whoever wishes to purchase a PSL should do so. Their choice has no impact on me.

Yes I'm aware of the stadium being PSL everywhere.

[SoCal Deek]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

Thanks but my analogy or perception had nothing to do with my architectural background. It came from sitting through more than a few timeshare presentations. This is a distinct style of marketing and generally not a well appreciated one. It’s known for deceptive pricing, long term commitments, high pressure appointment style meetings, and hidden additional fees. I have no idea why the Bills adopted this style. It’s not as if your typical Buffalonian is visiting Orchard Park on vacation. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks but my analogy or perception had nothing to do with my architectural background. It came from sitting through more than a few timeshare presentations. This is a distinct style of marketing and generally not a well appreciated one. It’s known for deceptive pricing, long term commitments, high pressure appointment style meetings, and hidden additional fees. I have no idea why the Bills adopted this style. It’s not as if your typical Buffalonian is visiting Orchard Park on vacation. 

 

Well said. I was just reading through some older stadium builds and found some interesting tidbits.

 

- The only stadium I could find that also had a timeshare style presentation is the Falcons. They initially were selling the club section fairly quickly and advertised that (remind you of anyone?) and then it slowed down… They ended up cutting the price of PSL’s in HALF in some sections, which angered a lot of fans who paid PSL’s at full price. 

 

- The Jets had a similar situation. They reduced the price of nearly 18,000 PSL’s (over 20% of the stadium) in half after a year of trying to sell them.

 

- Raiders reduced the price of PSL’s at their new stadium too, but to their credited, they credited people who already bought PSL’s to the new discounted price.

[Just Jack]

The Vikings also did the new stadium center when selling their new stadium seats, here is one person's article about it...

 

Signing The Minnesota Vikings PSL Agreements (thevikingage.com)

[Einstein]

21 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

The Vikings also did the new stadium center when selling their new stadium seats, here is one person's article about it...

 

Signing The Minnesota Vikings PSL Agreements (thevikingage.com)

 

I stand corrected. The Vikings too. I didn’t find any info on this when I looked.

 

The Vikings however publicly announced prices for PSL’s without having to go to the timeshare presentation. They didn’t hide it.

 

The presentation was just to buy the PSL you already knew the price of.

Edited April 7 by Einstein

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

The “plan” is in its infancy and it remains to be seen if it’s good or bad. If the Bills achieve their desired PSL sales goal, then it can only be viewed as successful. The fact that some are rankled by the process so far has little bearing on whether or not it will be successful.

 

As far as not being normal, is that simply because it’s never been done before? If so, there are other adjectives that apply.

[WotAGuy]

Opinions of people who haven’t been to the presentation are fine, but @Mr Info gave a first hand account that is very different than the opinions of outsiders.  So, take it for what it’s worth. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

If the Bills achieve their desired PSL sales goal, then it can only be viewed as successful..

Successful for the billionaire owner, yes.

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Successful for the billionaire owner, yes.

 

These multifaceted discussions are challenging in a chat room format. I’ve never said this is good or bad for the ‘billionaire’ and I’m definitely not anti-billionaire. My point has always been that is a terribly deceptive form of sales. There are lots of ways to sell products and services. This particular one is famous for being less than open about the true costs. I’m not a big fan of the tactic….and I don’t think it’s necessary to sell tickets for a historically beloved football team to a historically loyal fan base. 

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Successful for the billionaire owner, yes.

 

Sometimes capitalism can be a b.i.t.c.h. I guess.

 

I’ve been lamenting the pricing out of the middle class for years now, but that genie is out of the bottle and there’s no putting it back unless the consumer market forces economic changes. And we just aren’t dissatisfied enough to do that currently.

[Jrb1979]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

These multifaceted discussions are challenging in a chat room format. I’ve never said this is good or bad for the ‘billionaire’ and I’m definitely not anti-billionaire. My point has always been that is a terribly deceptive form of sales. There are lots of ways to sell products and services. This particular one is famous for being less than open about the true costs. I’m not a big fan of the tactic….and I don’t think it’s necessary to sell tickets for a historically beloved football team to a historically loyal fan base. 

I think they had to go this route. If they released all the different prices they would have a harder time selling the higher priced ones. 

[mrags]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Just FYI - You have not paid PSL’s for your current seats. The Bills do not have PSL’s at the current stadium. Not in the clubs or anywhere else.

 

You’ve said this a lot so I called the Bills ticket office last week to ask, and they confirmed that no-one has ever paid a PSL at the current stadium.

 

 

Well. As a STH I can tell you that you are in fact incorrect. I have written documentation to prove it. Maybe you should just stick to arguing things you actually know about. 

[Jukester]

From the Facebook discussion

[mrags]

2 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

I have the feeling that several people that post regularly in this thread do not have seasons of any type, and just like to argue.  

They like to act like they know everything for a fact as well

[Mr. WEO]

Just snag a ticket on the secondary market.  you'll never be "priced out"...

[SoCal Deek]

34 minutes ago, Jukester said:

From the Facebook discussion

So for ‘ just’ $30,000 more you get free food and drinks? No thanks. I’ll pack a lunch from home. 😂

[Einstein]

39 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Just snag a ticket on the secondary market.  you'll never be "priced out"...

Better yet, grab a PSL when the Bills cut the price in half - or when someone sells it on the resale market for penny's on the dollar.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Better yet, grab a PSL when the Bills cut the price in half - or when someone sells it on the resale market for penny's on the dollar.

 

For someone who is not at all emotional about this, you are quite persistent. 

[Einstein]

Just now, Augie said:

For someone who is not at all emotional about this, you are quite persistent. 

I don't see the correlation you're drawing.

If I am confident in my analysis, and therefore persistent in my belief, that = emotional ... to you?