PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, GottaRun said:

- In 20 years of tailgating I have never seen anyone go through a table - that's a pumped up by the media thing
- Drunkenness is something that the rich folk do too
- Condiments?  Seriously?  It's one guy and it's a long time tradition.  Kenny has been to over 400 games home and away (flights, hotels, tickets), you don't seriously think a price increase is going to stop him do you?  
 

 

I've seen people falling over rows of seats in the clubs because they were totally blotto.

[Buffalo716]

32 minutes ago, GottaRun said:

- In 20 years of tailgating I have never seen anyone go through a table - that's a pumped up by the media thing
- Drunkenness is something that the rich folk do too
- Condiments?  Seriously?  It's one guy and it's a long time tradition.  Kenny has been to over 400 games home and away (flights, hotels, tickets), you don't seriously think a price increase is going to stop him do you?  
 

Do you just tailgate in Buffalo Bills lots?

 

If you're in the big grass lots off southwestern there are hundreds of people going through tables for a decade 

[papazoid]

please....back in the day, we used to carry people INTO the stadium....lol

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, papazoid said:

please....back in the day, we used to carry people INTO the stadium....lol

You can still try to carry drunk people into the stadium

 

They will then be escorted out by Erie county sheriff

[GottaRun]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Do you just tailgate in Buffalo Bills lots?

 

If you're in the big grass lots off southwestern there are hundreds of people going through tables for a decade 

Hammers Lot - Hammer and his crew work pretty hard to keep the table smashing out 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, GottaRun said:

Hammers Lot - Hammer and his crew work pretty hard to keep the table smashing out 

Well that's a tame family lot 

 

Obviously all the shenanigans go on in the grass lots where it's a bunch of 20 30 40 year old partiers

 

That's where barstool films

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Do you just tailgate in Buffalo Bills lots?

 

If you're in the big grass lots off southwestern there are hundreds of people going through tables for a decade 

 

A few years back I had a visitor that wanted to see some table slamming (like it's a tourist attraction.
 

We looked all over and wondered the lots and couldn't find any. 

I know it happens but it wasn't easy to find in my experience.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A few years back I had a visitor that wanted to see some table slamming (like it's a tourist attraction.
 

We looked all over and wondered the lots and couldn't find any. 

I know it happens but it wasn't easy to find in my experience.

The lot I have tailgated in for the last decade is the huge grass lot off southwestern 

 

There's definitely thousands of people in it..

 

People are making mixed bag Jungle juice's.. like old school college parties where you throw 100 alcohols into a plastic bag and mix it also with fruits lol there's definitely a lot of antics going on... Like Kiko Alonso Jersey swaps

 

Not to mention , this is where I see the table slamming and bar stool filming... My group actually got in one of their videos 5 years ago

 

So I definitely think it is a limited lot or two

 

None of the bills actual lot will have any of the debauchery

Edited April 4 by Buffalo716

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, papazoid said:

 

"And the BS of PSL as an investment. Give me A break. The ticket rep who used to work for the Cowboys told her some of the ones in Dallas go for $250,000.  Oh OK LOL."

 

in the PSL agreement it clearly states in SEC 4e "Transfers": The Licensee acknowledges that(i) there is currently no market and no guarantee that there will ever be a market for resale of PSL's. (ii) none of Licensor, ECSC, PSL Agent or TeamCo., or their agents has represented that there will be a market for PSL's, (iii) none of Licensor, ECSC, PSL Agent or TeamCo. or any other person is under any obligation to create or cause to be created such a market and (iv) Licensee shall have no claim against Indemnitees for any purported loss of value of the PSL(s) or inability to transfer or sell a PSL for a desired price or any price at all.

 

I guess I didn't read the fine print.  Not sure why the ticket rep that used to work for the Cowboys told my wife she could sell it and some of the ones in Dallas are going for $250,000.

[The 9 Isles]

He is annoying af

[plenzmd1]

6 hours ago, zevo said:

One will never convince me 10% is a good loan rate. But yeah if you have to have seasons and this is the way one has to finance the PSL, more power to you. 

That might be, then go out and get another if you can get better. There is no clause that says ya have to use their lenders.
 

 I think it’s a pretty good rate for ( I think) no credit check unsecured loan. 

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

I must be sitting in the wrong sections, because Bills games are pretty tame. Especially compared to what they used to be. You used to see the yellow jackets swarming sections and breaking up fights and escorting people out all over the stadium. I rarely ever see that any more.

 

Well, over the past several seasons aftermarket prices have been nuts in this stadium.  Maybe the riff-raff has already been cut out.  It stands to reason that the riff-raff wouldn't be STHs anyway.  Any trouble and they wouldn't be for long.  

 

BTW, what's this org chart comment that people are referring to, I missed it.  Would like to be in on the humor.  

 

 

[Mr Info]

7 hours ago, zevo said:

One will never convince me 10% is a good loan rate. But yeah if you have to have seasons and this is the way one has to finance the PSL, more power to you. 

If you are financing PSLs then perhaps you should not be purchasing them. I take it as a lost expense…somewhat like purchasing a fun car that you intend to keep until it dies. After 10 years it’s worth much less and that will probably occur with the PSL. It’s a bonus if it’s worth anything after a while but the benefit of enjoying the seats is like the benefit of enjoying the vehicle while you have it. 

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, Gregg said:

This speaks for every fanbase.

 

 

You can tell how old this is cuz it was back when you could bring your own signs painted with spray paint on bed sheets.

 

 

[mrags]

47 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

If you are financing PSLs then perhaps you should not be purchasing them. I take it as a lost expense…somewhat like purchasing a fun car that you intend to keep until it dies. After 10 years it’s worth much less and that will probably occur with the PSL. It’s a bonus if it’s worth anything after a while but the benefit of enjoying the seats is like the benefit of enjoying the vehicle while you have it. 

Unless you sell them the season after they win the Super Bowl and double your money (yes I know not likely, but one can dream) because everyone will want to get in that stadium at that point. 

[papazoid]

9 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I guess I didn't read the fine print.  Not sure why the ticket rep that used to work for the Cowboys told my wife she could sell it and some of the ones in Dallas are going for $250,000.

 

#1- she can sell it (so thats true)...if she meets certain conditions....see the agreement "Transfers" 

#2- there are PSL markets already for every other nfl team. it's a virtual certainty there will at some point, be one for bills PSL's. The bills are just saying, we have nothing to do with those aftermarkets. 

#3- Dallas PSL's do sell for more than the initial fee (so thats true). but they are more the exception than the rule. check on the browns & jets for a more likely outcome that can be expected for the bills PSL's.

#4- the important thing to the bills is that whoever you transfer the PSL to.....signs a newly created iron clad PSL  agreement between the bills and the new Licensee.

 

 

Edited April 5 by papazoid

[mrags]

44 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

#1- she can sell it (so thats true)...if she meets certain conditions....see the agreement "Transfers" 

#2- there are markets already for every other nfl team. it's a virtual certainty there will at some point, be one for bills PSL's. The bills are just saying, we have nothing to do with those aftermarkets. 

#3- Dallas PSL's do sell for more than the initial fee (so thats true). but they are more the exception than the rule. check on the browns & jets for a more likely outcome that can be for the bills PSL's.

#4- the important thing to the bills is that whoever you transfer the PSL to.....signs a newly created iron clad PSL  agreement between the bills and the new Licensee.

I don’t think there’s going to be any shortage of a wait list for the new stadium once it’s built. I also see people buying these PSLs from someone for as much as they paid or possibly even more depending on the wait list. Time will tell on all that obviously. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

 I also see people buying these PSLs from someone for as much as they paid or possibly even more depending on the wait list. 

 

Now that’s funny.

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Now that’s funny.

Yeah you and some others think they are going to have problems selling the new place out. I believe that not only will they sell it out, theres going to be a multiple year wait list to get tickets 

[Einstein]

36 minutes ago, mrags said:

Yeah you and some others think they are going to have problems selling the new place out.

 

Definitely never said that. They will sell it out.

 

36 minutes ago, mrags said:

I believe that not only will they sell it out, theres going to be a multiple year wait list to get tickets 

 

Could be. PSL’s will plummet regardless.

 

Jets had a 10,000 person waiting list a couple years ago while PSL’s were selling for penny’s on the dollar.

 

One problem with resale, outside of no intrinsic value, is that people don’t want to go get a $10k personal loan for used PSL’s that now have less time remaining of them.

[mrags]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Definitely never said that. They will sell it out.

 

 

Could be. PSL’s will plummet regardless.

 

Jets had a 10,000 person waiting list a couple years ago while PSL’s were selling for penny’s on the dollar.

 

One problem with resale, outside of no intrinsic value, is that people don’t want to go get a $10k personal loan for used PSL’s that now have less time remaining of them.

If you’re talking 12 years down the road. You may be correct. If you’re talking after Allen is gone you may be correct. If you’re talking when we’re back in the basement, you may be correct. If your talking 3 years after the place opens and Allen jist won a Super Bowl, your probably incorrect. 
 

Yes I get that it’s an improbability, but that does not mean it’s impossible. And I still stand by you don’t actually need to get full value for them based on resale if you had them XX number of years already. Of course it’s likely you don’t make every cent back. But you also used them for those years. 

[zevo]

11 hours ago, Mr Info said:

If you are financing PSLs then perhaps you should not be purchasing them. I take it as a lost expense…somewhat like purchasing a fun car that you intend to keep until it dies. After 10 years it’s worth much less and that will probably occur with the PSL. It’s a bonus if it’s worth anything after a while but the benefit of enjoying the seats is like the benefit of enjoying the vehicle while you have it. 

Bingo, but I also understand there is value in what owning season tickets brings to someone. saying that paying 10% interest is a good rate for the right to own a seat is comical. cmon.

Edited April 5 by zevo

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

If you’re talking 12 years down the road. You may be correct. If you’re talking after Allen is gone you may be correct. If you’re talking when we’re back in the basement, you may be correct. If your talking 3 years after the place opens and Allen jist won a Super Bowl, your probably incorrect. 
 

Yes I get that it’s an improbability, but that does not mean it’s impossible. And I still stand by you don’t actually need to get full value for them based on resale if you had them XX number of years already. Of course it’s likely you don’t make every cent back. But you also used them for those years. 

 

You should be able to get around 25-40% of what you paid for them at the 5 year mark.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You should be able to get around 25-40% of what you paid for them at the 5 year mark.

I think your batchit crazy. 
 

again, if the place is sold out and there’s a waiting list. People will be paying pro-rated PSL prices at the very least. 
 

but again, you’ll have used them for XX amount of time, so getting something back is fine 

[Jrb1979]

13 hours ago, mrags said:

Yeah you and some others think they are going to have problems selling the new place out. I believe that not only will they sell it out, theres going to be a multiple year wait list to get tickets 

I'm sure they will sellout the first few seasons as long as they are good. I have my doubts about wait lists and enough PSLs filling the stadium. Yeah that's what is happening now but that's with lower average ticket prices and no PSLs. 

[Einstein]

23 minutes ago, mrags said:

I think your batchit crazy. 
 

again, if the place is sold out and there’s a waiting list. People will be paying pro-rated PSL prices at the very least. 

In 2010, the Jets waiting list was over 10,000 deep.

PSL's sold for $25,000 each at the 50 yard line.

7 years later, those same $25,000 PSL's were for sale for $4,500. That's only 2 years after going 10-6.

Economics is undefeated.

[mrags]

15 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I'm sure they will sellout the first few seasons as long as they are good. I have my doubts about wait lists and enough PSLs filling the stadium. Yeah that's what is happening now but that's with lower average ticket prices and no PSLs. 

It’s been argued over and over again on here. Let’s just say I don’t agree with your opinion. The place will be sold out for the next 10+ years 

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I'm sure they will sellout the first few seasons as long as they are good. I have my doubts about wait lists and enough PSLs filling the stadium. Yeah that's what is happening now but that's with lower average ticket prices and no PSLs. 

Yes. And keep in mind "wait lists" is primarily marketing.

Washington boasted of their HUGE wait list for over a decade. Then the Washington Post did an expose that exposed that it was all a sham. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

The place will be sold out for the next 10+ years 

This is undoubtably true in my opinion. A 60,000 seat stadium in Buffalo will sell out. 

But that has nothing to do with PSL prices.

[mrags]

19 minutes ago, Einstein said:

In 2010, the Jets waiting list was over 10,000 deep.

PSL's sold for $25,000 each at the 50 yard line.

7 years later, those same $25,000 PSL's were for sale for $4,500. That's only 2 years after going 10-6.

Economics is undefeated.

Ok cool. I don’t agree with your opinion. We’re not the jets. This isn’t 2010 or 2017. 

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This is undoubtably true in my opinion. A 60,000 seat stadium in Buffalo will sell out. 

But that has nothing to do with PSL prices.

Got it. Cool

[Buddy Hix]

Allen has 5-7 years left in him, most likely. Those PSLs won’t be worth much a few years from now, imo. Buffalo is a great football area but a middling franchise, and once the unicorn is long in the tooth, I would expect there’s a good chance mediocrity ensues.

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

Allen has 5-7 years left in him, most likely. Those PSLs won’t be worth much a few years from now, imo. Buffalo is a great football area but a middling franchise, and once the unicorn is long in the tooth, I would expect there’s a good chance mediocrity ensues.

He's 27 lol he's got a lot more than 5 years left

 

He's playing for 10 if he stays healthy.. he's always said he wanted to go down as one of the best

 

He's not retiring when he's still going to be in his prime at 32

[Gregg]

41 minutes ago, Einstein said:

In 2010, the Jets waiting list was over 10,000 deep.

PSL's sold for $25,000 each at the 50 yard line.

7 years later, those same $25,000 PSL's were for sale for $4,500. That's only 2 years after going 10-6.

Economics is undefeated.

 

I mentioned this before, but thousands of Jets/Giants fans dropped their seasons and just purchase individual game tickets. I know a few Giants fans who do this. They still go to every game they just don't sit in the same seats as a season ticket holder does. They love doing it this way as they save so much money not paying the PSL fee.

[Einstein]

28 minutes ago, mrags said:

We’re not the jets.

Agreed. We have a much smaller market.

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I mentioned this before, but thousands of Jets/Giants fans dropped their seasons and just purchase individual game tickets. I know a few Giants fans who do this. They still go to every game they just don't sit in the same seats as a season ticket holder does. They love doing it this way as they save so much money not paying the PSL fee.

This is exactly right. And it plummeted the PSL market. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

This is exactly right. And it plummeted the PSL market. 

 

This is in a market that has a ton of corporate support being in the NYC area. Same will happen with the Bills. The Bills will see a big decline in season ticket sales but a big increase in selling individual game tickets. The games at the new stadium will still sellout but they won't have as many season ticket holders.

[mrags]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Agreed. We have a much smaller market.

Ok. Cool 

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

This is in a market that has a ton of corporate support being in the NYC area. Same will happen with the Bills. The Bills will see a big decline in season ticket sales but a big increase in selling individual game tickets. The games at the new stadium will still sellout but they won't have as many season ticket holders.

Lol, this is just wrong. The stadium will be ONLY season tickets as it currently is. Now if you’re saying people will purchase tickets on the SECONDARY market at a higher percentage than they do now, that’s possible. The Bills entire stadium though will be sold with season tickets. 

[mrags]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, this is just wrong. The stadium will be ONLY season tickets as it currently is. Now if you’re saying people will purchase tickets on the SECONDARY market at a higher percentage than they do now, that’s possible. The Bills entire stadium though will be sold with season tickets. 

Ty. Some people still get it

[papazoid]

40 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, this is just wrong. The stadium will be ONLY season tickets as it currently is. Now if you’re saying people will purchase tickets on the SECONDARY market at a higher percentage than they do now, that’s possible. The Bills entire stadium though will be sold with season tickets. 

 

for 2023 there were just under 64,000 season tickets. the capacity is just over 70,000. they deliberately hold back some for individual sale.

 

i dont think the new stadium will be 100% season ticket (i could be wrong)

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/updates-on-bills-2024-season-ticket-member-renewals-and-opening-of-bills-stadium-experience

Edited April 5 by papazoid