Mix and match Allen/Mahomes and Reid/McDermott

[Lifefan1]

After a few days here, I got to thinking. What would happen if the coaches stayed where they are, but Allen and Mahomes switched teams? Or the opposite, the rosters stayed the same, but Reid and McDermott switched places? Which team would be better off? I guess the real question here is: Is what Reid does with the KC offense (creating decisions for the defense that gets players like Kelsey open in tough situations, or getting big runs when needed...) something that is tailored just to Mahomes and his skill set? Or would Allen be just as successful in that offense? Would Mahomes be just as dynamic in Brady's offense here? I guess my real frustration comes from watching teams like the Chiefs get players open in space, when we appear to have so much trouble getting that open space? Is it scheme (from the coaches calling plays), or is it talent (running the plays called)?

[Billever76]

Allen would have 6 straight afccg appearances and 2 superbowl rings if they switched teams on their draft nights

Edited January 24 by Billever76

[FireChans]

Just now, Billever76 said:

Allen would have 6 straight afccg appearances and 2 superbowl rings if they were switched teams on their draft nights

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

With hill and kelce and Andy Reid he must certainly would have

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

You forget allen was throwing to the hamburglar version of Kelvin Benjamin and zay Jones who went streaking through LA on bath salts lol

Edited January 24 by Billever76

[FireChans]

Just now, Billever76 said:

With hill and kelce and Andy Reid he must certainly would have

Our boy could barely complete a pass against the Packers in 2018. 
 

Revisionist history city rn.

[Billever76]

6 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

With hill and kelce and Andy Reid he must certainly would have

You forget allen was throwing to the hamburglar version of Kelvin Benjamin and zay Jones who went streaking through LA on bath salts lol

On a full blown 1st year rebuilding team

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Our boy could barely complete a pass against the Packers in 2018. 
 

Revisionist history city rn.

Kc was a superbowl caliber team when mahomes was inserted into the line up and didn't start until his 2nd year....so allen would get a year to sit and then be thrust into a superbowl caliber roster....come on get off mahomes junk...allen is just as good and I'd take allen over mahomes....the rest of this team including coaching have failed allen over and over again and you can't ever say the same with mahomes

Edited January 24 by Billever76

[uticaclub]

Mahomes sat behind Alex Smith on a team that won their division

[HomeskillitMoorman]

We’d have a championship at least, no doubt. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

On a full blown 1st year rebuilding team

Kc was a superbowl winning team when mahomes was inserted into the line up and didn't start until his 2nd year....so allen would get a year to sit and then be thrust into a superbowl caliber roster....come on get off mahomes junk...allen is just as good and I'd take allen over mahomes....the rest of this team including coaching have failed allen over and over again and you can't ever say the same with mahomes

When you say they were a SB winning team, you mean they won one in 1969?

 

They year before Mahomes started, they lost in the wildcard round. The year before Josh Allen started, we lost in the wildcard round. There was certainly a talent gap between the two rosters, but Allen was not a good QB his first year starting. Mahomes was the MVP. It’s not a debate, it’s a legitimate fact.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When you say they were a SB winning team, you mean they won one in 1969?

 

They year before Mahomes started, they lost in the wildcard round. The year before Josh Allen started, we lost in the wildcard round. There was certainly a talent gap between the two rosters, but Allen was not a good QB his first year starting. Mahomes was the MVP. It’s not a debate, it’s a legitimate fact.

I fixed it I mean CALIBER team

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When you say they were a SB winning team, you mean they won one in 1969?

 

They year before Mahomes started, they lost in the wildcard round. The year before Josh Allen started, we lost in the wildcard round. There was certainly a talent gap between the two rosters, but Allen was not a good QB his first year starting. Mahomes was the MVP. It’s not a debate, it’s a legitimate fact.

Mahomes sat a year and his team didn't trade or cut all their star players and start over on a rebuild his first yr starting.....having a year to sit and learn from a vet like Alex Smith and being molded by the greatest offensive minded coach in Andy Reid was the different between mahomes his first time starting and allen first time starting...you seem to not be taking any of that into consideration and that's the most important details

[Chris from Rochester]

3 hours ago, Billever76 said:

You forget allen was throwing to the hamburglar version of Kelvin Benjamin and zay Jones who went streaking through LA on bath salts lol

This is the greatest reply I have ever seen on this site 

[Lifefan1]

 

4 hours ago, Billever76 said:

Allen would have 6 straight afccg appearances and 2 superbowl rings if they switched teams on their draft nights

So what is Reid doing that we aren't? How is he able to put defenses in a bind and we struggle to get folks open in space? Is it personnel or is it scheme?

[ngbills]

14 minutes ago, Lifefan1 said:

 

So what is Reid doing that we aren't? How is he able to put defenses in a bind and we struggle to get folks open in space? Is it personnel or is it scheme?

Well you rarely see 3 receivers in the same space. He seems to run more playaction and move the pocket more. Uses a ton of motion. Not a lot of one read plays. 

[Success]

This is why I hate the argument that Mahomes is so much better than Allen.

 

And when people make it, it's always about the TEAM accomplishments Mahomes has.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don’t think it’s just coaches and QBs. The Bills don’t have a Kelce or Chris Jones.

 

If Chris Jones were on the Bills im confident we’d beat KC at least once in the playoffs. Chris Jones by himself prevented the Bills from scoring a go ahead touchdown with under 2 minutes left. Jones defeated our best offensive lineman.

Edited January 24 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

 

Do you not remember how bad the Bills roster was, especially at the offensive skill positions?  Also, 2018 was Mahomes 2nd year where he had 2 full camps, 1 full season under his belt and played in one regular season game already.  Plus he had 2 HOF weapons in Hill and Kelce with one of the greatest offensive minds and QB developers in history.  

 

Allen had squat...fat KB and a mentally shot Zay Jones who couldn't get open or catch.  

[FireChans]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Do you not remember how bad the Bills roster was, especially at the offensive skill positions?  Also, 2018 was Mahomes 2nd year where he had 2 full camps, 1 full season under his belt and played in one regular season game already.  Plus he had 2 HOF weapons in Hill and Kelce with one of the greatest offensive minds and QB developers in history.  

 

Allen had squat...fat KB and a mentally shot Zay Jones who couldn't get open or catch.  

That’s fine. Mahomes in 2018 was a way better QB than Allen in 2018. 
 

He had better coaching, better weapons, and was the better player. These things can all be true. 

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s fine. Mahomes in 2018 was a way better QB than Allen in 2018. 
 

He had better coaching, better weapons, and was the better player. These things can all be true. 

Agree, but I mean if Allen played that first season in KC his season would have looked a lot better than it did in Buffalo.  

[peterpan]

4 hours ago, Billever76 said:

Allen would have 6 straight afccg appearances and 2 superbowl rings if they switched teams on their draft nights

Maybe even more.  Allen doesn’t get hurt, and that’s a big reason the Chiefs lost that one SB.

[C.Biscuit97]

Mahomes won a SB and MVP after trading Tyreek Hill.

 

he is in the afc championship game with a bottom 5 wide receiver core. 
 

mahomes would win wherever he is. 

[Mikie2times]

Andy Reid went 20 years without winning a Super Bowl. His playoff record was was 11-13. KC drafted Mahomes, since that time he has two Super Bowl wins and is 13-3 in the playoffs. Why does everybody think it's Andy Reid or the roster? The clear smoking gun is Mahomes, just like it was Brady in New England. 

 

So if Allen is on that level what is holding Buffalo back? I don't believe we can conclude it's the roster. Patriots and Chiefs didn't win all those Super Bowls because the roster. For my dollar Reid and Belichick help. Sean hurts. What happens when you partner a hall of fame QB with a crappy head coach? Divisional losses. 

[C.Biscuit97]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Do you not remember how bad the Bills roster was, especially at the offensive skill positions?  Also, 2018 was Mahomes 2nd year where he had 2 full camps, 1 full season under his belt and played in one regular season game already.  Plus he had 2 HOF weapons in Hill and Kelce with one of the greatest offensive minds and QB developers in history.  

 

Allen had squat...fat KB and a mentally shot Zay Jones who couldn't get open or catch.  

Mahomes threw for nearly 300 yards in his first nfl start his rookie year. He’s that dude. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes won a SB and MVP after trading Tyreek Hill.

 

he is in the afc championship game with a bottom 5 wide receiver core. 
 

mahomes would win wherever he is. 

This year his defense is elite though. Only reason they’re here. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This year his defense is elite though. Only reason they’re here. 

Yeah, the two time MVP qb isn’t a huge part of the reason they are there. 
 

I get this is coping but putting Mahomes down to cope is a wild move. There are zero other fanbases that would try to discredit how great he is. 

[Mikie2times]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This year his defense is elite though. Only reason they’re here. 

Buffalo ranked better in DVOA than KC the last two years. Nobody would ever call them elite. As I have said, Andy Reid is not the reason, Sean is. It's either that or it's Josh. Our talent gap vs KC is not so severe that it serves as justification. I don't believe it's Josh. Andy was a permanent brides made prior to Mahomes. Something has to give.   

Edited January 24 by Mikie2times

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Billever76 said:

Allen would have 6 straight afccg appearances and 2 superbowl rings if they switched teams on their draft nights

Maybe 3 super bowl rings as he would have been better able to handle Tampa Bays pass rush in that game.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

So if Allen is on that level what is holding Buffalo back? I don't believe we can conclude it's the roster. Patriots and Chiefs didn't win all those Super Bowls because the roster. For my dollar Reid and Belichick help. Sean hurts. What happens when you partner a hall of fame QB with a crappy head coach? Divisional losses. 

McD is what's holding them back.  After that it's the decision to focus on defense at the expense of the offense. 

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

And Mahomes wasn't throwing 50 TD's in Buffalo in 2018.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes won a SB and MVP after trading Tyreek Hill.

 

he is in the afc championship game with a bottom 5 wide receiver core. 
 

mahomes would win wherever he is. 

No one is disputing that Mahomes wouldn't win what is up for discussion is whether or not Mahomes would be going to AFCC games every year and winning a couple of Super Bowls in Buffalo.  After all Allen wins a lot of games and has led the Bills to 5 straight playoff appearances and 4 straight division titles.  I have no doubt that Mahomes would have equaled that production under McD had he been here.

 

As an aside I shudder at the thought of the offense Reid would fashion with Allen.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Maybe 3 super bowl rings as he would have been better able to handle Tampa Bays pass rush in that game.

 

 

McD is what's holding them back.  After that it's the decision to focus on defense at the expense of the offense. 

And Mahomes wasn't throwing 50 TD's in Buffalo in 2018.

 

 

Mahomes was amazing in that TB Super Bowl considering how bad their o line play was. 
 

 

[ILBillsfan]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

Allen was never making the AFCCG as a rookie in 2018.

 

Do you not remember how different these dudes’ 2018’s were lol. Josh had like 10 passing TD’s, Mahomes had 50.

Mahomes did not make it as a rookie either

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No one is disputing that Mahomes wouldn't win what is up for discussion is whether or not Mahomes would be going to AFCC games every year and winning a couple of Super Bowls in Buffalo.  After all Allen wins a lot of games and has led the Bills to 5 straight playoff appearances and 4 straight division titles.  I have no doubt that Mahomes would have equaled that production under McD had he been here.

 

As an aside I shudder at the thought of the offense Reid would fashion with Allen.

 

 

The problem with is with how sensitive some are, if you say Mahomes would have won SBs here, you will get labeled as an Allen hater, when this has zero to do with Allen. 

 

The nfl league is mahomes and everybody else. IMO (and most non bills fans), Mahomes is one of the great qbs ever. He might be only qb who could have carried that KC offense with a Gabe Davis type rookie wr (Rice), literal garbage WRs, and declining Kelce to the title game. Allen is great as well. But it’s Mahomes and everyone else. 
 

and I think the Ravens will win. But the fact this pretty garbage KC team is even close shows his greatest. No other qb beats us on Sunday. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes was amazing in that TB Super Bowl considering how bad their o line play was. 
 

 

He was?  Mahomes stats for the Super Bowl against TB:  26 of 49 passes for 270 yards, 0 TD's & 2 INT's with a rating of 52.  Also 5 carries for 33 yards, 0 TD's.

 

Sure, the Chiefs O line was a wreck and Mahomes was running for his life but he still had a lot of weapons available. When Allen puts up numbers like this you people claim he sucked and if we point out a porous O line played a role you accuse us of making excuses for Allen.

 

 

 

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

The problem with is with how sensitive some are, if you say Mahomes would have won SBs here, you will get labeled as an Allen hater, when this has zero to do with Allen. 

 

The nfl league is mahomes and everybody else. IMO (and most non bills fans), Mahomes is one of the great qbs ever. He might be only qb who could have carried that KC offense with a Gabe Davis type rookie wr (Rice), literal garbage WRs, and declining Kelce to the title game. Allen is great as well. But it’s Mahomes and everyone else. 
 

and I think the Ravens will win. But the fact this pretty garbage KC team is even close shows his greatest. No other qb beats us on Sunday. 

Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL.  Allen is #2 IMO.  But I also believe that Mahomes would not have won or even gotten to a Super Bowl on the Bills teams of the last 6 years.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

He was?  Mahomes stats for the Super Bowl against TB:  26 of 49 passes for 270 yards, 0 TD's & 2 INT's with a rating of 52.  Also 5 carries for 33 yards, 0 TD's.

 

Sure, the Chiefs O line was a wreck and Mahomes was running for his life but he still had a lot of weapons available. When Allen puts up numbers like this you people claim he sucked and if we point out a porous O line played a role you accuse us of making excuses for Allen.

 

 

 

There was not one instance this year where Allen’s oline was as bad as Mahomes was in that SB. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

There was not one instance this year where Allen’s oline was as bad as Mahomes was in that SB. 

Maybe not this year but over the last 5 years there have been a lot of times the Bills O line was that bad and maybe even worse. Allen's play hides a lot of O line defects.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Maybe not this year but over the last 5 years there have been a lot of times the Bills O line was that bad and maybe even worse. Allen's play hides a lot of O line defects.

 

 

You think Allen is 20+ points better than Mahomes on the same team?

[stlbills13]

Allen/Reid would be better than Mahomes/McDermott all else being equal. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

You think Allen is 20+ points better than Mahomes on the same team?

I don't understand your question.  I'm not saying Allen on KC would have beat TB that year I'm saying that the way Allen plays the game he would have been in a better position to deal with the pass rush and having a beat up O line then Mahomes can. 

 

 

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Well you rarely see 3 receivers in the same space. He seems to run more playaction and move the pocket more. Uses a ton of motion. Not a lot of one read plays. 

dont forget the shovel pass.

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't understand your question.  I'm not saying Allen on KC would have beat TB that year I'm saying that the way Allen plays the game he would have been in a better position to deal with the pass rush and having a beat up O line then Mahomes can. 

 

 

That was my question

[MPL]

Well, here we are. The Chiefs officially broke us. 

[nedboy7]

What if Mahomes and Allen were to switch girlfriends. Who would win at pickle ball then?