GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said: Restructuring is kicking the can down the road. It solves short-term problems but becomes problematic later. It is but if those players end up playing on that 'can' money it is actually a way of buying cap space. Because $10m now in 2023 against a $228m cap is more expensive than $10m in 2025 when the projections are the cap will be somewhere between $265-280m. With an ever escalating cap accounting more money later is good financial sense not just a way to buy now and pay later. Edited December 6, 2023 by GunnerBill 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is but if those players end up playing on that 'can' money it is actually a way of buying cap space. Because $10m now in 2023 against a $228m cap is more expensive than $10m in 2025 when the projections are the cap will be somewhere between $265-280m. With an ever escalating cap accounting more money later is good financial sense not just a way to buy now and pay later. We saw this with the Saints for years. They’ve been in “cap hell” for 14 years. They still sign big FA’s. They still pay their premium players. And that’s with Brees retiring! If there’s some short term pain when Josh Allen retires, and we can still be flexible and acquire good players and spend our cap basically until then, there is no problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Bills Fan Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Interesting look at the Bills UFAs in 2024: Player Position. Age. 2023 AAV. Micah Hyde. FS. 32.9. $9,625,000 DaQuan Jones. DT. 31.9. $7,000,000 Leonard Floyd. OLB. 31.2. $7,000,000 Tim Settle. DT. 26.3. $4,500,000 Jordan Phillips. DE. 31.2. $3,000,000 Tyler Matakevich. ILB. 30.9. $2,500,000 Poona Ford. DE. 28.0. $2,250,000 Tyrel Dodson. ILB. 25.4. $2,010,000 Dane Jackson. CB. 27.0. $2,010,000 Trent Sherfield. WR. 27.8. $1,770,000 Damien Harris. RB. 26.8. $1,770,000 Taylor Rapp. S. 25.9. $1,770,000 David Edwards. G. 26.7. $1,770,000 A.J. Epenesa. DE. 25.2. $1,469,325 Shaq Lawson. DE. 29.4. $1,317,500 Latavius Murray. RB. 33.8. $1,317,500 Kyle Allen. QB. 27.7. $1,232,500 Cam Lewis. CB. 26.6. $1,185,000 Germain Ifedi. RT. 29.5. $1,165,000 Gabriel Davis. WR. 24.7. $998,595 Quintin Morris. TE. 24.8. $787,500 -ERFA- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: So you want to keep him until the bitter end? I don’t think that’s smart. Josh needs a known weapon. We aren't sure if any of these prospects will pan out, let alone produce from day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Desert Bills Fan said: Interesting look at the Bills UFAs in 2024: Player Position. Age. 2023 AAV. Micah Hyde. FS. 32.9. $9,625,000 DaQuan Jones. DT. 31.9. $7,000,000 Leonard Floyd. OLB. 31.2. $7,000,000 Tim Settle. DT. 26.3. $4,500,000 Jordan Phillips. DE. 31.2. $3,000,000 Tyler Matakevich. ILB. 30.9. $2,500,000 Poona Ford. DE. 28.0. $2,250,000 Tyrel Dodson. ILB. 25.4. $2,010,000 Dane Jackson. CB. 27.0. $2,010,000 Trent Sherfield. WR. 27.8. $1,770,000 Damien Harris. RB. 26.8. $1,770,000 Taylor Rapp. S. 25.9. $1,770,000 David Edwards. G. 26.7. $1,770,000 A.J. Epenesa. DE. 25.2. $1,469,325 Shaq Lawson. DE. 29.4. $1,317,500 Latavius Murray. RB. 33.8. $1,317,500 Kyle Allen. QB. 27.7. $1,232,500 Cam Lewis. CB. 26.6. $1,185,000 Germain Ifedi. RT. 29.5. $1,165,000 Gabriel Davis. WR. 24.7. $998,595 Quintin Morris. TE. 24.8. $787,500 -ERFA- Out of that list maybe the only one I want back is Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said: Josh needs a known weapon. We aren't sure if any of these prospects will pan out, let alone produce from day one. Went to Spotrac and looked at everyone’s FA WRs. Its Tee Higgins and Michael Pittman Jr as ready made top end weapons. Mike Evans is also a FA, but there is a lot of mileage on those tires. After those guys, it’d be a lot of mid to low tier projections of guys that you would be trying to squeeze more out of. Edited December 7, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 41 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Out of that list maybe the only one I want back is Floyd. You gotta re-sign Floyd, Jones & maybe? AJE. The rest I could care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Went to Spotrac and looked at everyone’s FA WRs. Its Tee Higgins and Michael Pittman Jr as ready made top end weapons. Mike Evans is also a FA, but there is a lot of mileage on those tires. After those guys, I’d be a lot of mid to low tier projections of guys that you would be trying to squeeze more out of. Evans is literally the same age as Diggs. He's got a garbage qb throwing to him and yet he's managed 10 TD's and a 60% catch rate. I'd sign him in a heartbeat on a reasonable deal to pair with Diggs. Then draft Odunze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 12:55 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said: So many fans don’t understand age catches up quickly. If you restructure Diggs you’re locked in until age 33+. Not many WRs produce at that age. Either keep him on his current structure for a year so he can groom his replacement we draft this year or move on completely in the offseason. Restructing 30+ year old non qbs is bad for business. I agree with one caveat: Diggs is a WR who generally avoids big hits, and he’s not reliant on pure speed, which gives him an opportunity to extend his productivity by a couple seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 11 hours ago, Desert Bills Fan said: Interesting look at the Bills UFAs in 2024: Player Position. Age. 2023 AAV. Micah Hyde. FS. 32.9. $9,625,000 DaQuan Jones. DT. 31.9. $7,000,000 Leonard Floyd. OLB. 31.2. $7,000,000 Tim Settle. DT. 26.3. $4,500,000 Jordan Phillips. DE. 31.2. $3,000,000 Tyler Matakevich. ILB. 30.9. $2,500,000 Poona Ford. DE. 28.0. $2,250,000 Tyrel Dodson. ILB. 25.4. $2,010,000 Dane Jackson. CB. 27.0. $2,010,000 Trent Sherfield. WR. 27.8. $1,770,000 Damien Harris. RB. 26.8. $1,770,000 Taylor Rapp. S. 25.9. $1,770,000 David Edwards. G. 26.7. $1,770,000 A.J. Epenesa. DE. 25.2. $1,469,325 Shaq Lawson. DE. 29.4. $1,317,500 Latavius Murray. RB. 33.8. $1,317,500 Kyle Allen. QB. 27.7. $1,232,500 Cam Lewis. CB. 26.6. $1,185,000 Germain Ifedi. RT. 29.5. $1,165,000 Gabriel Davis. WR. 24.7. $998,595 Quintin Morris. TE. 24.8. $787,500 -ERFA- I mean, this is who I want back. The problem is that we have numerous holes that are going to need to be filled. Certain positions may warrant spending a little cheddar (DE2, DT2, WR2), and I am hopeful Beane can find ways to replace guys with cost controlled draft picks or stop gap free agents at others (CB3, LB3, S2, IOL3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 11:27 PM, DrDawkinstein said: Greg Tompsett is making the podcast rounds in the bye week this week and talking cap. Gave a pretty detailed plan on Cover1 and showed how the Bills could get themselves to about $72M UNDER the cap. Or $56M under without anything too crazy. Worth watching, or at least clicking around through, for anyone concerned with our cap situation next year. He was also on Locked On Bills to discuss our Free Agents and re-signing options As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. Tompsett's Preferred/Likely Moves - Cap Savings Extend Dawkins - $7M Extend Douglas - $6M Extend Johnson - $5M Release Siran Neal - $3M Release Sam Martin - $1M Restructure McGovern - $3M With these moves added to the above, the Bills would be $44M UNDER Painful but Possible - Cap Savings Release Poyer - $5.5M Release Tre - $6M Bills now $56M UNDER Prefer Not - Cap Savings Restructure Milano - $2.5M Restructure Knox - $6M Trade Elam - $165k Release Bates - $1.5M Release Morse - $5.5M Bills now $72M UNDER I type all that to once again reiterate, the cap is a myth. Bills need to take there cap medicine so to speak next yr . Do enough just to get under the cap for the draft and to sign some minimum salary free agents to fill out the roster. I don’t trust Beane anymore with building this team and don’t want to see him continue to kick the can down the road for a team that’s getting older. We need a mini reset and if that means relying on the draft and signing more undrafted players so be it. I hope McBeane gets fired and we hire a new GM/Coach to rebuild this team. The Bills have no identity we neither have a physical or mental identity as a team we’re not fast we’re not big we’re not aggressive we’re not an intelligent team . This all starts at the top so new ideas need to be brought in to fix this mess that McBeane has made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Evans is literally the same age as Diggs. He's got a garbage qb throwing to him and yet he's managed 10 TD's and a 60% catch rate. I'd sign him in a heartbeat on a reasonable deal to pair with Diggs. Then draft Odunze. Good point on Evans/Diggs age and love the idea to pair him with Odunze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 12:15 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said: Release Morse, get younger at the position. Creed Humphrey should be available in the second round. We'd get an All-Pro on a rookie contract. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, finn said: Creed Humphrey should be available in the second round. We'd get an All-Pro on a rookie contract. /s I have dreamt of an OL with Torrence and Dawand Jones on the right side. Now I am adding Humphrey at C to that dream OL. What could have been….. Edited December 7, 2023 by BarleyNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) On 12/6/2023 at 1:27 PM, DrDawkinstein said: Greg Tompsett is making the podcast rounds in the bye week this week and talking cap. Gave a pretty detailed plan on Cover1 and showed how the Bills could get themselves to about $72M UNDER the cap. Or $56M under without anything too crazy. Worth watching, or at least clicking around through, for anyone concerned with our cap situation next year. He was also on Locked On Bills to discuss our Free Agents and re-signing options As a little preview, the detailed plan to get to $72M... No Brainers - Cap Saved Restructure Josh - $23M Restructure Diggs - $13M Restructure Ed - $3M Release Hines - $5M Release Harty - $4M Total - $48M Being $29M OVER cap right now, these moves alone put us $19M UNDER. Tompsett's Preferred/Likely Moves - Cap Savings Extend Dawkins - $7M Extend Douglas - $6M Extend Johnson - $5M Release Siran Neal - $3M Release Sam Martin - $1M Restructure McGovern - $3M With these moves added to the above, the Bills would be $44M UNDER Painful but Possible - Cap Savings Release Poyer - $5.5M Release Tre - $6M Bills now $56M UNDER Prefer Not - Cap Savings Restructure Milano - $2.5M Restructure Knox - $6M Trade Elam - $165k Release Bates - $1.5M Release Morse - $5.5M Bills now $72M UNDER I type all that to once again reiterate, the cap is a myth. You're not really using these numbers the way he talked about it. The cap is anything but a myth, and Tompsett helps make that clear. The specifics of those numbers are expressed much better this way: "This top bucket of 'absolute-must-dos,' I think all of these are going to happen. They immediately get us from $29M in the hole to $19M in cap space. We even debated that a good chunk of these preferred/likely ones are probably going to happen, and [if all of them were done] that gets us to $45M." - Tompsett Again, he says a good chunk of them are going to happen. If all of them happened, it'd put us at $45M but that's unlikely. Instead, "a good chunk of them" could happen. "I think a lot of that is going to happen." Meaning those won't likely get us to $45M but maybe somewhere close. "And then down here there's another $28M floating around in things that I'd prefer not to do, but they absolutely can do." He talks about his purpose here, saying "Hopefully this shows you that there's a lot of options out there and fans should not be anxious about it looking like $29M over the cap. We're going to be just fine. It's all depending on which one of these they want to do." So, using the $72M as anything but a theoretically possible milestone is a bit disingenuous. He isn't even saying they'll get to $56M. $45M is the number he's talking about getting near. After that there are bunch of options, options he doesn't really like. Some of which may happen, but maybe not. As an example, he talks about the option of getting rid of Poyer and saving around $6M, but then says that replacing him would probably cost more than the money you save by cutting him. There's a lot of that here, particularly further down the list. Make some of these moves and you then leave a hole you have to fill, which will then cost money. Just getting to $44M, for instance, you'd then have to replace Sam Martin and Siran Neil and would have around 35 guys on the roster, having lost guys like DaQuan Jones, Leonard Floyd, Poona Ford, Dane Jackson, Taylor Rapp, Latavius Murray, Micah Hyde and a bunch more. The cap is very very real. It's flexible within limits. But real. And restrictive. Edited December 7, 2023 by Thurman#1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said: Josh needs a known weapon. We aren't sure if any of these prospects will pan out, let alone produce from day one. $24 million in cap space is a lot to spend on a younger weapon when we choose to separate from Diggs. Just saying. Holding on to Diggs too long could bite us in the end. 4 hours ago, finn said: Creed Humphrey should be available in the second round. We'd get an All-Pro on a rookie contract. /s The guy the Ravens took after we drafted Elam also. Edited December 7, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 11:56 PM, TampaBillsJunkie said: Thanks for posting. A good topic to dive into. We are not in cap hell, but certainly not as flexible as we would like. The DL is going to be an issue and we need to spend some money there. It will be an interesting off-season if we don't make a serious playoff run. I like most of the moves they discussed, but we do need to find ourselves a reliable #2 WR. I just hope we pull this season together and finish strong. It's been so disappointing so far. Seems pretty flexible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 On 12/7/2023 at 11:56 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said: $24 million in cap space is a lot to spend on a younger weapon when we choose to separate from Diggs. Just saying. Holding on to Diggs too long could bite us in the end. Given Diggs' age and remaining contract, there is no reason he shouldnt play it out and finish his career here in Buffalo as the next Bill to get into the Hall of Fame. Especially if we take a WR in the 1st next year. We'll be getting two WR1s for the price of one, and as Diggs' contract ends in 4 years, have the 5th year option on the new guy to give us even more cap space in 2028. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 12/6/2023 at 7:29 AM, SoonerBillsFan said: I have been saying this. Just a few years ago the saints were 100 mill over the cap and got under. He isn't addressing a post June 1st cut of Von. No way Von can stay. Von will be a tough call. It comes down to whether he's worth the $7 million in savings they'd get if they cut him; the rest of his salary is guaranteed. He's just taking up a roster spot at this point, but it's possible he return to form next year. Tre White is another tough one, could depend on whether Elam develops. The only easy cut is Harty, who just catches punts and falls down. Sounds like Hines will be back, so at least we'll have someone to return kickoffs. I would not restructure Diggs until it's more clear what is up with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Don’t they need to sign Brown. If he is a mid level starting tackle, what is that, about 8 per? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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