The decision that changed all the momentum

[Rocbillsfan1]

I haven’t really seen this discussed anywhere today on the board or on the radio. The single decision I think that changed the nature of the game was McDermott deciding to kick a 48 yard fg in the second half after the Eagles had just gone 3 and out. The Bills already had 1 fg blocked and conditions weren’t great. It only puts them up 13 if it goes in but if he misses puts them in excellent field position and could give the Eagles some life. It was a 50/50 call on making it. Of course Bass misses it and the Eagles jump out and score a TD and the game was never the same. The Bills continued to moe the ball on offense after that but that possession gave the Eagles confidence and a new life. I was angry that McDermott didn’t actually just punt and pin them deep and make them earn it. The Eagles offense has been sputtering to that point and I would have continued to make it hard on them.
 

I think McDermott honestly thought he was being aggressive which he thinks he needs to be. The way the game had been going until that point just didn’t call for it. It’s like he believes the offense needs points on all possessions or it’s a failure. I really wasn’t worried about not getting points there. It was at that moment that my stomached dropped and it was back to here we go again. I also brought up a similar decision in the Giants game when he decided to kick a long field goal late instead of running the ball 3 times and punting and making the Giants go the length of the field with no timeouts and under 60 seconds and was ridiculed by most posters then too. Making the 3 in the Giants game still made it a 1 possession game just like in this instance it’s still a 2 score game. The risk/reward just didn’t add up in either of these situations. No kicker is going to be perfect and I think probably one of the toughest positions to kick a field goal is when it’s a long field goal and you aren’t changing the possession # and potentially giving a big momentum swing to the other team if missed. No one is talking about this but this was the moment for me where it felt like the wheels that McDermott put into motion came off the track.
 

McDermott really shows in almost all situations to have the worst instincts I’ve ever seen. I can think of dozens of times throughout his tenure where I’d basically do the opposite of whatever he is thinking of doing in terms of game/clock mgmt. He’s basically the inverse Cramer of NFL coaches. 

[QB Bills]

You wanted him to punt it from the opposing 31 yard line?

 

I think we've found the one guy who thinks McDermott is too aggressive out there.

[Jay_Fixit]

I can honestly say this is the worst thread I’ve read today. And that’s saying a lot.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, QB Bills said:

You wanted him to punt it from the opposing 31 yard line?

 

I think we've found the one guy who thinks McDermott is too aggressive out there.

Ya. That would be a historically bad decision. The weather was good enough for the Eagles to make a 90 yards field goal. At worst, any NFL kicker makes that 60% or more, the actual average is 70-75%. You have a real risk of a 11 yard net punt on a touchback. I don’t disagree that the game seemed to change at that point. But it’s also when the Eagles started hammering those stretch run to the outside. We had no answer for that and it allowed them to get in some rhythm. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

16 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

You wanted him to punt it from the opposing 31 yard line?

 

I think we've found the one guy who thinks McDermott is too aggressive out there.

No, think you’re missing my point. There are times when he needs to be more aggressive because he can hear all the criticism but there are times where this has led to him making bad decisions. He doesn’t have an internal compass on when and where to pick the correct spots on being aggressive. I know the Eagles made a 59 miracle fg. But without knowing that maybe it wasn’t a great idea to potentially give the Eagles good field position on a 50/50 kick that doesn’t really change the outcome of the game. By all means he should have been aggressive with 20 seconds and if we needed a 60 yarder then take it. In a weird way it’s like he doesn’t trust his offense still and doesn’t want empty possessions. Also if you keep playing good defense you make them punt get a first down or two and get in better range for a fg or potential touchdown. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Rocbillsfan1

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

[Rocbillsfan1]

Again bass has been shaky on longer kicks. He already had a blocked kick and somehow you all had great confidence that he would make it? That’s crazy sounding to me. Also wasn’t a do or die time to kick one. The Eagles kicker has 0 pressure but that Bass miss led to the whole game changing from that point. 

Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Not really hindsight if I didn’t want to kick the fg. Just like I disagreed to kick the fg in the Giants game. 

Also I’ve disliked Mcdermott since the Colts snow game when he punted on 4th and 1 at the 36 in OT when the Bills needed to play for the win. It’s not just about being 100% aggressive all the time. It’s about knowing when to pick your spots and Mcdermott has never shown a good instinct for it.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Again bass has been shaky on longer kicks. He already had a blocked kick and somehow you all had great confidence that he would make it? That’s crazy sounding to me. Also wasn’t a do or die time to kick one. The Eagles kicker has 0 pressure but that Bass miss led to the whole game changing from that point. 

Not really hindsight if I didn’t want to kick the fg. Just like I disagreed to kick the fg in the Giants game. 

 

With a 17-7 lead with 10+ minutes left in the 3rd Quarter, against a good offense, your options are

 

1) 48 yard FG

2) Go for it on 4th and 10

3) Punt

 

Weather wasn't THAT bad. You 100% take the FG attempt. Anything else is hindsight nonsense. 

[QB Bills]

4 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

No, think you’re missing my point. There are times when he needs to be more aggressive because he can hear all the criticism but there are times where this has led to him making bad decisions. He doesn’t have an internal compass on when and where to pick the correct spots on being aggressive. I know the Eagles made a 59 miracle fg. But without knowing that maybe it wasn’t a great idea to potentially give the Eagles good field position on a 50/50 kick that doesn’t really change the outcome of the game. By all means he should have been aggressive with 20 seconds and if needed a 60 harder then take it. In a weird way it’s like he doesn’t trust his offense still and doesn’t want empty possessions. Also if you keep playing good defense you make them punt get a first down or two and get in better range for a fg or potential touchdown. 

I see your point. And it does make sense to a certain extent. But a 48 yard field goal attempt for Bass..you have to think that's almost automatic even with the rain. 

 

The result of the play was a backbreaker but not the decision, imo.

[Rocbillsfan1]

I think he would have gone for it if it wasn’t 4th and 10. Idk about whether not being that bad, and Bass has been struggling, and just had a field goal blocked. Idk why you trust Bass there instead of your defense who has shut down the Eagles to that point.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said:

I think he would have gone for it if it wasn’t 4th and 10. Idk about whether not being that bad, and Bass has been struggling, and just had a field goal blocked. Idk why you trust Bass there instead of your defense who has shut down the Eagles to that point.

 

He made a 48 yard FG earlier in this very game

[Rocbillsfan1]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

He made a 48 yard FG earlier in this very game

True but the team was losing at that point and not up 10 and controlling the game. Again not always against kicking it, it just depends on what the game is calling for at that time. If we are that worried about the Eagles offense why not pin them deep or go for it if you feel like you need lots of points.

6 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

He made a 48 yard FG earlier in this very game

Just the same thought on the Giants game too. Like yea I guess he could make it but you’re just giving the ball back to the Giants with more time and timeouts and not pinned deep. Sometimes you just don’t take the risk. 

[BillsFan130]

McDermott made a lot of awful decisions, but I don’t think that was one of them.

 

Your 5 million dollar kicker simply just has to make that kick.

[Rocbillsfan1]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

McDermott made a lot of awful decisions, but I don’t think that was one of them.

 

Your 5 million dollar kicker simply just has to make that kick.

Wish he did.

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Wish he did.

Yep. But that’s on Bass, not McDermott 

[Rocbillsfan1]

He’s now 66% on 40 and out which is not good. Add in the other elements I’m talking about like crappy weather, a previous blocked kick and I’m not exactly super trustworthy of my kicker there to not give the home team momentum. 

[ToGoGo]

I had car problems this morning. If only McDermott rotated my tires this summer it wouldn’t have happened. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

Just now, ToGoGo said:

I had car problems this morning. If only McDermott rotated my tires this summer it wouldn’t have happened. 

McDermott is managing the car though. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

54 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

I haven’t really seen this discussed anywhere today on the board or on the radio. The single decision I think that changed the nature of the game was McDermott deciding to kick a 48 yard fg in the second half after the Eagles had just gone 3 and out. The Bills already had 1 fg blocked and conditions weren’t great. It only puts them up 13 if it goes in but if he misses puts them in excellent field position and could give the Eagles some life. It was a 50/50 call on making it. Of course Bass misses it and the Eagles jump out and score a TD and the game was never the same. The Bills continued to moe the ball on offense after that but that possession gave the Eagles confidence and a new life. I was angry that McDermott didn’t actually just punt and pin them deep and make them earn it. The Eagles offense has been sputtering to that point and I would have continued to make it hard on them.
 

I think McDermott honestly thought he was being aggressive which he thinks he needs to be. The way the game had been going until that point just didn’t call for it. It’s like he believes the offense needs points on all possessions or it’s a failure. I really wasn’t worried about not getting points there. It was at that moment that my stomached dropped and it was back to here we go again. I also brought up a similar decision in the Giants game when he decided to kick a long field goal late instead of running the ball 3 times and punting and making the Giants go the length of the field with no timeouts and under 60 seconds and was ridiculed by most posters then too. Making the 3 in the Giants game still made it a 1 possession game just like in this instance it’s still a 2 score game. The risk/reward just didn’t add up in either of these situations. No kicker is going to be perfect and I think probably one of the toughest positions to kick a field goal is when it’s a long field goal and you aren’t changing the possession # and potentially giving a big momentum swing to the other team if missed. No one is talking about this but this was the moment for me where it felt like the wheels that McDermott put into motion came off the track.
 

McDermott really shows in almost all situations to have the worst instincts I’ve ever seen. I can think of dozens of times throughout his tenure where I’d basically do the opposite of whatever he is thinking of doing in terms of game/clock mgmt. He’s basically the inverse Cramer of NFL coaches. 

Another way to say you want McD fired. Don't be afraid just come out and say it like the others who think that way

[Reks Ryan]

Can you imagine the outrage if he actually called for a punt from the 31 yard line?   Holy Jesus that woulda been stupid.  
 

This is the thread that jumped the shark on McDermott criticism.  Pretty much shows that some fans are going to be against every decision that doesn’t work out perfectly.

 

[Rocbillsfan1]

28 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Another way to say you want McD fired. Don't be afraid just come out and say it like the others who think that way

I haven’t been afraid, I literally just said I turned on him before we even made our first playoff game. This guy has always been a mediocre coach at best. I get why he hasn’t been fired yet but if the Bills don’t make the playoffs they should 100% be looking for a new coach. 
 

It almost does feel like he never will be able to make a correct decision because he’s not thinking clearly and has severe PTSD from all the bad decisions he’s already made. Also there’s a bit of luck involved and he clearly has 0 of it. 

18 minutes ago, Reks Ryan said:

Can you imagine the outrage if he actually called for a punt from the 31 yard line?   Holy Jesus that woulda been stupid.  
 

This is the thread that jumped the shark on McDermott criticism.  Pretty much shows that some fans are going to be against every decision that doesn’t work out perfectly.

 

Well he makes it pretty easy since he makes so many bad ones that contribute to losses. That’s been the constant theme throughout his tenure.  Just horrible beats with inexplicable decisions. 

[vanislebills44]

48yard field goal attempt or punt?? hahahahaha good 2 end the night with a laugh...

2 use a mcdermott schtick, yah hindsight is 20/20, he missed, most dont...

[PBF81]

Quote

The decision that changed all the momentum

 

I thought that it was Allen's picked off pass to Diggs early in the 4th.  

 

We had recovered from that FGA and scored a TD on a 70-yard drive on the series prior to go up by 10.  

 

Then on that drive, on 2nd-and-8, no need to take any risks, Allen makes one of the dumbest pass decisions of the season.  He forces Diggs who's not only double-covered, but also about 4 yards shy of the marker.  

 

Meanwhile, Davis is wide f'n open for a 1st-down on the left sideline.  

Cook is wide open on the right likely to run for the 1st a few yards shy of it.  

Kincaid and the other WR, I think Shakir, in the 5 WR set took defenders downfield with them.  

 

That set the Eagles up at our 24 for the go-ahead TD.  It was almost all Eagles after that.  

 

After that, in the last 12:46 of the 4th and OT, the Eagles logged 17 points, 130 yards, and 7 1st-downs.  

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

8 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

I haven’t really seen this discussed anywhere today on the board or on the radio. The single decision I think that changed the nature of the game was McDermott deciding to kick a 48 yard fg in the second half after the Eagles had just gone 3 and out. The Bills already had 1 fg blocked and conditions weren’t great. It only puts them up 13 if it goes in but if he misses puts them in excellent field position and could give the Eagles some life. It was a 50/50 call on making it. Of course Bass misses it and the Eagles jump out and score a TD and the game was never the same. The Bills continued to moe the ball on offense after that but that possession gave the Eagles confidence and a new life. I was angry that McDermott didn’t actually just punt and pin them deep and make them earn it. The Eagles offense has been sputtering to that point and I would have continued to make it hard on them.
 

I think McDermott honestly thought he was being aggressive which he thinks he needs to be. The way the game had been going until that point just didn’t call for it. It’s like he believes the offense needs points on all possessions or it’s a failure. I really wasn’t worried about not getting points there. It was at that moment that my stomached dropped and it was back to here we go again. I also brought up a similar decision in the Giants game when he decided to kick a long field goal late instead of running the ball 3 times and punting and making the Giants go the length of the field with no timeouts and under 60 seconds and was ridiculed by most posters then too. Making the 3 in the Giants game still made it a 1 possession game just like in this instance it’s still a 2 score game. The risk/reward just didn’t add up in either of these situations. No kicker is going to be perfect and I think probably one of the toughest positions to kick a field goal is when it’s a long field goal and you aren’t changing the possession # and potentially giving a big momentum swing to the other team if missed. No one is talking about this but this was the moment for me where it felt like the wheels that McDermott put into motion came off the track.
 

McDermott really shows in almost all situations to have the worst instincts I’ve ever seen. I can think of dozens of times throughout his tenure where I’d basically do the opposite of whatever he is thinking of doing in terms of game/clock mgmt. He’s basically the inverse Cramer of NFL coaches. 

If he does not give Bass a try there then he going to ket called out for it.  I see you point and agree that it gave Philly life because of field position but it's still a kick Bass has to make.  The reality is on that drive Philly made adjustments and started running wide,  again as usual we never adjusted and they ended up scoring 4 second half TD'S. This is why you hire a DC and not name yourself as the DC when your the HC.  How can Mcdermott be the HC which requires full attention and also focus on adjustment on defensive side of the ball.  It was a poor decision and Beane should have never allowed it to happen

 

I thought the Bills play calling on OT drive is not very smart,  we we're running the ball well on the series on go ahead TD drive and Philly adjusted by stacking the box on first downs.  On that OT drive for a FG we had no success running on first down and when they had first down at Philly 26 they needed to put the ball in Allen's hands and not waste downs trying to run which they did on 1st and 10 and got next to nothing.  It should have been pass/run option for Allen on 3 straight plays.  He was cooking and Philly is not vert good in pass coverage ,  again another coaching mistake because they had to know there defence was not stopping Philly the way they were scoring in that second half.  

Edited November 28, 2023 by Niagara Dude

[ProcessTruster]

Remember, if McD goes, the entire staff, including Joe Brady is released by the new HC as well.  This isn't fantasy football, they come in pieces but go out as a group in the vast majority of cases.   

 

McD probably needs to hire a DC and get himself a (new?) clock or game management assistant, that's all.   

 

Must be pretty wild down there in real time on the sidelines on the road in a high pressure situation.   I'd want some advice in my ear.  

[HomeskillitMoorman]

9 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Again bass has been shaky on longer kicks. He already had a blocked kick and somehow you all had great confidence that he would make it? That’s crazy sounding to me. Also wasn’t a do or die time to kick one. The Eagles kicker has 0 pressure but that Bass miss led to the whole game changing from that point. 

Not really hindsight if I didn’t want to kick the fg. Just like I disagreed to kick the fg in the Giants game. 

Also I’ve disliked Mcdermott since the Colts snow game when he punted on 4th and 1 at the 36 in OT when the Bills needed to play for the win. It’s not just about being 100% aggressive all the time. It’s about knowing when to pick your spots and Mcdermott has never shown a good instinct for it.

 

The FG in this game was the right call, but I do agree with you that McD's game management issues have been there since the beginning and he hasn't worked on improving himself as a head coach at all in these 7 years. That tells you a lot about him. What he did in that Colts game was an egregious mistake and he's the same exact guy today that he was then. And it's killing us. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[Matt_In_NH]

10 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

I was angry that McDermott didn’t actually just punt and pin them deep and make them earn it.

Suggesting a punt there is ludicrous.  There is no end to the depths this fan base will go to to criticize every possible decision.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[Never NEVER Give-up]

Horrible post.  Now we should fire the coach because he's not clairvoyant!  He should have known Bass would miss, so punt from the 31.  No one would have 2nd guessed him. OMG, he'd get pitch-forked!!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

This is a weird take…that’s a pretty high percentage field goal and a comfortable lead if you make it…if you go for it there and get it, you’re still not guaranteed 7 points and might just end up settling for a fg anyway 

 

punting there only nets you a few yards of field position

Edited November 28, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Jauronimo]

13 hours ago, Reks Ryan said:

Can you imagine the outrage if he actually called for a punt from the 31 yard line?   Holy Jesus that woulda been stupid.  
 

This is the thread that jumped the shark on McDermott criticism.  Pretty much shows that some fans are going to be against every decision that doesn’t work out perfectly.

 

Netting 10 yards would have been pretty sweet though.

[st pete gogolak]

If anyone other than OP agrees with this, you should let him know.  Punting from the 31 yard line with a 10 point lead  would be the worst “Preposterous Punt” (credit to Greg Easterbrook) in Bills’ history. Worse than Gregg Williams punting from Pats’ 30 yard line way back when.

[BillsFooteball]

Well that’s one take from the game I was not expecting 

[Rocbillsfan1]

It’s funny seeing all the negative responses to this take. Yes McDermott made many more obvious errors in this game and others as well. The truth is this was still the biggest momentum swing of the game as the Eagles looked dead in the water and after the moss their offense found a rhythm and boom TD and many more after that. I can see why people wouldn’t blame McDermott for this but I think the topic is still worth discussion. 
 

Bass already hit a 48 yarder when they were down. He’s about 60% around 50 yards. Conditions suck, the Eagles had 2 turnovers and 2 3 and outs prior to that. Crazy that people can’t even bring up the discussion of punting and pinning them at the 5 or 10. They could have faked going for it on 4th down if they get 5 yards they could then go for it or kick a closer fg. If not back up 5 yards get a little more room for your punter. Point is they could have tried burying the Eagles there. The Fg even if made wouldn’t have changed the nature of the game(didn’t make it a 3 possesion game). Crazy that people don’t see any potential value of getting a defensive stop getting the ball back and getting fresh downs to try and score with less time. The idea that you always kick the fg I think could be debatable.