Colts vs Patriots in Frankfurt GameDay thread

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

The point is Bill Belichick is Rich Kotite and Dick Jauron without Brady. His record without him proves that but people have been brainwashed for 2 decades. Brady left Belichick and in his first season took the Buccs who had 12 straight non playoff seasons before he got there and won a Super Bowl. 

And Brady chose the Bucks because had Evans and Godwin, he brought Gronk. Toss in they had some good talent on D.

[muppy]

I hope this humbles the pats* fans a bit. I am enjoying this recent turn of events this season not gonna lie.

[Buffalo03]

12 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And Brady chose the Bucks because had Evans and Godwin, he brought Gronk. Toss in they had some good talent on D.

James Winston and a couple of other QBs played with that same team. Are we seriously gonna act like guys like Mike Evans, Godwin and an old Gronk made Brady? 😂. The dude is the best to ever play. He makes everyone else around him better. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin were already there before him and it didn't matter. Brady played with Reche Caldwell, David Givens and Deion Branch all at the same time and made them all look good. Let's not make it seem like the Buccs who again, had 12 straight non playoff seasons before he got there were the reason. They don't do that with Jameis Winston still in that roster or most other QBs for that matter

[dave mcbride]

46 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Did you not read that I acknowledged that? They were coming off a season in which they 16-0. The Patriots won 11 games that season. 9 out of those 11 wins were against teams with losing records. The only 2 teams he beat that year with winning records went no better than 9-7. He had 5 losses that season. 4 of those losses came to teams with a winning record and the other to and 8-8 chargers team which smashed them that year. So, 9 wins out of 11 games against losing teams. 4 losses out 5 games against winning teams. Please tell me what is so impressive about that. Many coaches could have easily done the same

Ok. The reason why the Bills offense got "shut down in the Super Bowl" was because of their own stubbornness. Belichick invited them to run the entire game. Belichick himself acknowledged this and said that he hoped we wouldn't run that much because they would have been in trouble. Thurman had 15 carries for 135 yards. Imagine what Thurman would have done with 25 or 30. Our offense got shut down because they were gonna live and die with what got them there. This was said by Frank Reich and Jim Kelly themselves in interviews. Belichick gets way to much credit for that. And yes, look at the records without Brady. He is dick Jauron. He had ONE Victory better in the same amount of games coached after his first 6 seasons than Rich Kotite. Kotite went 40-57 in 6 years. Belichick went 41-56 in his first 6 years. He is not a genius. People have been brainwashed into believing that

I did read what you wrote. You said he went 10-5 that season, and I presumed you were using the ridiculous NFL qb victory accounting system that gives a qb victory to matt cassel in the Bills’ 2014 opener because they ran a trick play where tyrod taylor split wide. Cassel didn’t play another play. Anyway, using common sense accounting, he went 11-5 sans Brady in 2008.

[Airseven]

24 minutes ago, muppy said:

I hope this humbles the pats* fans a bit. I am enjoying this recent turn of events this season not gonna lie.

If only their one highlight wasn’t smacking the Bills.

[Buffalo03]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I did read what you wrote. You said he went 10-5 that season, and I presumed you were using the ridiculous NFL qb victory accounting system that gives a qb victory to matt cassel in the Bills’ 2014 opener because they ran a trick play where tyrod taylor split wide. Cassel didn’t play another play. Anyway, using common sense accounting, he went 11-5 sans Brady in 2008.

Yes, he went 11-5. Brady started and played about a half. Brady went down in the 2nd quarter of that game. He went 10-5 with Matt Cassell. Cassell play one snap in that season opener in 2015. Not nearly 2 quarters lol. But are we really gonna argue over one game for you to win an argument, bro? Let's get real here. 9 of 11 wins against teams with losing records. 4 out of 5 losses to teams with winning records. Nothing he did that season was special 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Buffalo03]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I did read what you wrote. You said he went 10-5 that season, and I presumed you were using the ridiculous NFL qb victory accounting system that gives a qb victory to matt cassel in the Bills’ 2014 opener because they ran a trick play where tyrod taylor split wide. Cassel didn’t play another play. Anyway, using common sense accounting, he went 11-5 sans Brady in 2008.

I given you everything I can give you to prove his is no better than Dick Jauron or Rich Kotite without Brady and you, just like all the other Belichick d*ck riders just don't wanna face facts. I gave you records of 10 out of 12 non playoff seasons without Brady and you want to point to one game in 2008 to add to it lol. Hilarious 

[billieve420]

And to think the Bills lost to this team.

[The Jokeman]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

James Winston and a couple of other QBs played with that same team. Are we seriously gonna act like guys like Mike Evans, Godwin and an old Gronk made Brady? 😂. The dude is the best to ever play. He makes everyone else around him better. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin were already there before him and it didn't matter. Brady played with Reche Caldwell, David Givens and Deion Branch all at the same time and made them all look good. Let's not make it seem like the Buccs who again, had 12 straight non playoff seasons before he got there were the reason. They don't do that with Jameis Winston still in that roster or most other QBs for that matter

If I'm not mistaken Winston had 28 passing TDs the year before Brady and Gronk got there. 

[Doc]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

If I'm not mistaken Winston had 28 passing TDs the year before Brady and Gronk got there. 

 

You're mistaken.  It was 33.

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

If I'm not mistaken Winston had 28 passing TDs the year before Brady and Gronk got there. 

Ok. And what did they do that season?

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

You're mistaken.  It was 33.

And what happened that season? They didn't do anything. He also threw 30 interceptions

[CSBill]

5 hours ago, stuvian said:

EJ Speed is a great football name 

Wonder if he is related to Lake Speed, a NASCAR driver back in the 90s? Drove the SPAM car. For real. 

[The Jokeman]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Ok. And what did they do that season?

And what happened that season? They didn't do anything. He also threw 30 interceptions

Point being Brady went to a team with good receiving options and not going to a team devoid of talent.

[somnus00]

Brady is one of the greatest to play the game. I hate to say it because I can't stand the guy. But also, he doesn't win all of those rings without Belichick's defensive mind.

 

Brady didn't limit the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points, or the McVay Rams offense to 3 points. Brady didn't stop the Falcons from scoring in the second half, nor did he get a goalline stop when the ball should've been given to Beast Mode.

 

He hand picked the bucs for a reason. It gave an aging Brady a team loaded with playmakers and a good coach. Brady was great. But QBs don't win games by themselves. It's not a question of Brady OR Belichick... it was Brady AND Belichick. Greatest coach QB combo of all time. I'm going to melt my keyboard now, for allowing me to type that.

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

I hope this humbles the pats* fans a bit. I am enjoying this recent turn of events this season not gonna lie.

It’s thinning the herd that’s for sure.. a lot of them jumping to the 49ers now. I knew they would become bad again, I’m shocked how long the good times lasted.. 

[Buffalo03]

6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Point being Brady went to a team with good receiving options and not going to a team devoid of talent.

And this is a guy that won Super Bowls with David Givens, Reche Caldwell and Deion Branch. The fact that he went to a talented Tampa team doesn't really mean much. There is no doubt in my mind that you could have downgraded his entire WR core and it still wouldn't have mattered

6 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

Brady is one of the greatest to play the game. I hate to say it because I can't stand the guy. But also, he doesn't win all of those rings without Belichick's defensive mind.

 

Brady didn't limit the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points, or the McVay Rams offense to 3 points. Brady didn't stop the Falcons from scoring in the second half, nor did he get a goalline stop when the ball should've been given to Beast Mode.

 

He hand picked the bucs for a reason. It gave an aging Brady a team loaded with playmakers and a good coach. Brady was great. But QBs don't win games by themselves. It's not a question of Brady OR Belichick... it was Brady AND Belichick. Greatest coach QB combo of all time. I'm going to melt my keyboard now, for allowing me to type that.

This is brain washing. Bill Belichick's great defensive mind did nothing in Cleveland and he did nothing without Brady in either place. What part of this don't people understand?

[TheFunPolice]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

What’s best for him is a year off for owners to forget this disaster then want to hire him.   Unless the Giants HC job opens up

 

True, but he's too old for a gap year IMO

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

And this is a guy that won Super Bowls with David Givens, Reche Caldwell and Deion Branch. The fact that he went to a talented Tampa team doesn't really mean much. There is no doubt in my mind that you could have downgraded his entire WR core and it still wouldn't have mattered

He won those Super Bowls due to strong defenses that Belichick ran. I'm not denying Brady is a great QB but Belichick is no slouch either  as I won't forget how he put a master class in sopping Kelly and Bills passing game in Super Bowl XXV.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

One of the worst for sure…I’m not even sure it’s debatable. 

 

You’re right that it’s not debatable, but it’s not debatable that we aren’t the worst defense in the league without those guys.

 

Not a single metric shows us to be. 

[Buffalo03]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

He won those Super Bowls due to strong defenses that Belichick ran. I'm not denying Brady is a great QB but Belichick is no slouch either  as I won't forget how he put a master class in sopping Kelly and Bills passing game in Super Bowl XXV.

Ok and again I will tell you like I told the other guy that brought up the "master class" he did against the Bills in the Super Bowl. Bill Belichck said in interviews that he invited the Bills to run all game. He was afraid of us taking advantage of that because he knew they would be in trouble. The Bills were too stubborn to take the invitation and wanted to stick with what got them there as said in interviews by Jim Kelly and Frank Reich. Thurman Thomas only ran the ball 15 times and had 135 yards. I'll say that again louder for the people in the back THURMAN THOMAS RAN THE BALL ONLY 15 TIMES FOR 135 YARDS AND A TD when the Bills took Belichick's invitation. Imagine if Thomas has 25-30 carries in that game. We aren't talking about a "master class" performance. It would have been forgotten about a long time ago. The Bills were way to stubborn to change what got them there. That is why that "magnificent" defensive game plan worked. Period. And again. This was said by old Billy boy himself in an interview about that game. So, let's hold off on the credit for that one.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Buffalo03

[The Jokeman]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Ok and again I will tell you like I told the other guy that brought up the "master class" he did against the Bills in the Super Bowl. Bill Belichck said in interviews that he invited the Bills to run all game. He was afraid of us taking advantage of that because he knew they would be in trouble. The Bills were too stubborn to take the invitation and wanted to stick with what got them there as said in interviews by Jim Kelly and Frank Reich. Thurman Thomas only ran the ball 15 times and had 135 yards. I'll say that again louder for the people in the back THURMAN THOMAS RAN THE BALL ONLY 15 TIMES FOR 135 YARDS AND A TD when the Bills took Belichick's invitation. Imagine if Thomas has 25-30 carries in that game. We aren't talking about a "master class" performance. It would have been forgotten about a long time ago. The Bills were way to stubborn to change what got them there. That is why that "magnificent" defensive game plan worked. Period. And again. This was said by old Billy boy himself in an interview about that game. So, let's hold off on the credit for that one.

But we didn't run Thurman and were stubborn, kudos for BB to developing a plan and making it work. 

[Buffalo03]

6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

But we didn't run Thurman and were stubborn, kudos for BB to developing a plan and making it work. 

So, we are giving Belichick credit for the Bills deciding not to do what worked better for them and take what was given to them and probably would have won the game if they had? A defensive game plan that would have been a forgotten memory if we had? Ride that d*ck harder man. How does it feel. Should he go harder and faster? 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Buffalo03

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

So, we are giving Belichick credit for the Bills deciding not to do what worked better for them and take what was given to them and probably would have won the game if they had? A game plan that would have been a forgotten memory if we had? Ride that d*ck harder man. How does it feel. Should he go harder and faster? 

You seem to want to give BB for none of his lifetime of success, sorry man you can't fake his track record 

[Buffalo03]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

You seem to want to give BB for none of his lifetime of success, sorry man you can't fake his track record 

The success he never would have had without the greatest QB of all time for 20 years. Belichick again said after 5 failed years in Cleveland and one failed year in New England that if things didn't change, he feared the whole coaching staff including him would get fired. They started that season 0-2 without Brady. Bledsoe got hurt, Brady came in and Belichick's head coaching job was saved from then on. It's no secret. I have given every single thing I can to prove he is garbage without him. But you can't quit the d*ck riding. It's too far in. You're enjoying it too much to remove it. The resume he has without Brady would never get hired anywhere and got him fired from one place and nearly a second time. Before Brady saved his job. What kind of track record does he have without Brady? Brady has one without him

Edited November 12, 2023 by Buffalo03

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

The success he never would have had without the greatest QB of all time for 20 years. Belichick again after 5 failed years in Cleveland and one failed year in New England that if things didn't change, he feared the whole coaching staff including him would get fired. They started that season 0-2 without Brady. Bledsoe got hurt, Brady came in and Belichick's head coaching job was saved from then on. It's no secret. I have given every single thing I can to prove he is garbage without him. But you can't quit the d*ck riding. It's too far in. You're enjoying it too much to remove it. The resume he has without Brady would never get hired anywhere and got him fired from one place and nearly a second time. Before Brady saved his job. 

He's average HC without him but he's still one of the best NFL defensive minds the sport has scene. I hate him but still give him and Brady credit for all they did in New England.

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Ok. The reason why the Bills offense got "shut down in the Super Bowl" was because of their own stubbornness. Belichick invited them to run the entire game. Belichick himself acknowledged this and said that he hoped we wouldn't run that much because they would have been in trouble. Thurman had 15 carries for 135 yards. Imagine what Thurman would have done with 25 or 30.

Good point but a bit of monday Morning QB'ing. Had the Bills run more the Giants D would have adjusted. How that would have changed the score is an interesting "what-if."

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

You’re right that it’s not debatable, but it’s not debatable that we aren’t the worst defense in the league without those guys.

 

Not a single metric shows us to be. 

Dead last in defensive DVOA weeks 5-9. I’ve gotta go through the turnover numbers but we are hardly forcing any and are rarely getting off the field on third down also. 
 

our defensive metrics were extremely good prior to week 5 so just looking at the overall season numbers is hardly relevant (if that’s what you’re doing)

Edited November 12, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Our offense got shut down because they were gonna live and die with what got them there. This was said by Frank Reich and Jim Kelly themselves in interviews. Belichick gets way to much credit for that

Belichick was the one who designed the D that stopped the K-Gun passing game. I read that he did two things:

1. Changed the D after every Buffalo possession so that when Kelly & Marchibroda worked out what the Giants were doing in the previous Bills' possession, Kelly faced a different D on the next possession.

2. The Giants' D was designed to keep everything in front of them. The Bills were a great YAC team and this aspect of the D was designed to limit YAC.

 

Belichick was a very good coach. The combo of bel & Brady made  them both GOAT's at their respective positions.  As someone on this forum has said, great coaches are great, in part, because they have great players.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I given you everything I can give you to prove his is no better than Dick Jauron or Rich Kotite without Brady and you, just like all the other Belichick d*ck riders just don't wanna face facts. I gave you records of 10 out of 12 non playoff seasons without Brady and you want to point to one game in 2008 to add to it lol. Hilarious 

Nice with the crude personal insults! I am  truly impressed! I am even more impressed by the fact that you are accusing me of this despite my never having said one positive thing about Belichick. I was simply pointing out that the record you claimed for 2008 was not in fact correct given the faulty way the NFL accounts for QB wins. I meant nothing more and nothing less.

More seriously, calling people d**k riders is extraordinarily juvenile.  Not cool.

[somnus00]

4 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

And this is a guy that won Super Bowls with David Givens, Reche Caldwell and Deion Branch. The fact that he went to a talented Tampa team doesn't really mean much. There is no doubt in my mind that you could have downgraded his entire WR core and it still wouldn't have mattered

This is brain washing. Bill Belichick's great defensive mind did nothing in Cleveland and he did nothing without Brady in either place. What part of this don't people understand?

The one who is brainwashed is you, apparently. You're on some strange crusade to prove that Belichick isn't a good coach. Any objective person who knows football, knows that Belichick is a damn good coach.

 

By your simplistic measure, Brian Billick was an excellent coach because he won a superbowl with Trent Dilfer.

 

And you fail to address how Tom Brady wins the superbowls, I mentioned previously, without Belichick's excellent coaching.