FireChans Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Just now, GoBills808 said: Yes which is why nobody would argue that that a better QB performance vsJETS would have produced a result ???? Josh had 4 TO's against the Jets. Patrick had 3. Mahomes's offense put up 23. Josh's put up 16. Mahomes offense went up 17-0. Josh's went up 13-3. Josh fumbled with 5 minutes left to let the Jets get the ball back to take the lead Mahomes orchestrated a 7 minute drive to end the game with the lead. Man, there's like no difference between the QB's performance lmao. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Just now, FireChans said: ???? Josh had 4 TO's against the Jets. Patrick had 3. Mahomes's offense put up 23. Josh's put up 16. Mahomes offense went up 17-0. Josh's went up 13-3. Josh fumbled with 5 minutes left to let the Jets get the ball back to take the lead Mahomes orchestrated a 7 minute drive to end the game with the lead. Man, there's like no difference between the QB's performance lmao. That's what I said If Allen had played better vs Jets they likely win The Jags point is that the Chiefs get to stack a W having their QB perform arguably worse You see the advantage? Chiefs can overcome those kinds of outings from their QB as it pertains to W/L and rn the Bills cannot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 18 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Still, imo Allen is the best QB the Bills have ever had ( no offense to J. Kelly) Who else has taken the Bills as far as they can go? Kemp rules until someone ties him... and even then he did it 1st. ***** Jim Kelly lol... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: That's what I said If Allen had played better vs Jets they likely win The Jags point is that the Chiefs get to stack a W having their QB perform arguably worse You see the advantage? Chiefs can overcome those kinds of outings from their QB as it pertains to W/L and rn the Bills cannot I'm not asking for the moon. I'm asking for less than FOUR TO's. lmao. The advantage is that the Chiefs have a better team, a better coach and a better QB. We have no chance to compete with that team as long as those 3 things are true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 Josh cost this team the Jets game and he has had some clunkers the past few weeks. Josh is not above criticism, he is one of the best QB’s in the league but when an offense is sputtering a QB has to take some of the blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, FireChans said: I'm not asking for the moon. I'm asking for less than FOUR TO's. lmao. The advantage is that the Chiefs have a better team, a better coach and a better QB. We have no chance to compete with that team as long as those 3 things are true. Ok but your justification for the difference in W/L was the difference in play at QB and I'm trying to explain the margin as it stands can't be explained that simply, nor do the metrics reflect that for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 I am an equal opportunity criticizer. If he plays like *****, like he has been because he doesn't appear to be studying film, I'll call him out. When he plays great, I say he does great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Ok but your justification for the difference in W/L was the difference in play at QB and I'm trying to explain the margin as it stands can't be explained that simply, nor do the metrics reflect that for that matter Sure it can. We would be 5-2 if Josh played as well as Mahomes did against the Jets. Which would be one game back with a head to head matchup upcoming If you want to say it wouldn't have made a difference in the Jags game, go for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, T&C said: Who else has taken the Bills as far as they can go? Kemp rules until someone ties him... and even then he did it 1st. ***** Jim Kelly lol... That was the AFL… different times , different competition level. Those teams were know in particular for their defense. Even in the NFL , that’s not necessarily the defining characteristic of the QB. Trent Dilfer’s of the world have won championships. Simply put, Allen is the most talented QB the franchise has known, and quite possibly ever will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Sure it can. We would be 5-2 if Josh played as well as Mahomes did against the Jets. Which would be one game back with a head to head matchup upcoming If you want to say it wouldn't have made a difference in the Jags game, go for it. 😂😂That's sort of what I am saying Allen was worse than Mahomes v Jets so they win and we lose Allen was better than Mahomes v Jags so they win and we lose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 This is the problem, the critics comparing him to Mahomes as if the context was neutral. There aren't any QBs that stand up to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterLifer Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Let’s recognize him for what he is; a tremendously talented QB who with continued experience may very well be spoken of as one of the greatest ever. But that at present he has room to get better. And if someone had the temerity to say so it does not mean they are a non-fan, or Bills hater, or whatever. Well stated. No look-at-me drama queens here. I sure did not enjoy the Patriots game and sure do enjoy cheering for Josh. That's sports. This old man will buy that old man fan a beer if we ever meet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) You typically need 2 miracles to qualify for sainthood, along with some other stuff. I think Josh has 3. Miracle #1: The 13 seconds game, where he led the Bills to TD drive after TD drive at the end of the game. He was an instrument of God that night I think we can say. Sadly, God didn't care about defense. To be fair, it was his day off. Miracle #2: Helping Gabe Davis turn into an uncoverable TD machine in the 13 second game. Feels a bit like double-dipping, but given what we've seen since that was definitely a miracle. Miracle #3: Dramatically raising his completion %. They said it couldn't be done, you're either an accurate passer or you're not. He did it, and is one of the few to ever do it to that degree. This one feels a little bit like filler, but hey. The man's up for sainthood and we need all we can get! He's got the good works (community involvement, civic pride he has inspired). The more I think about this the more it's making sense... Edited October 24, 2023 by TheFunPolice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikePJ76 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 All I know is there are no tougher players in this league playing his position. The hits he has taken recently would have ended up as major injuries to most of the guys around the league. I have a sneaking suspicion if the monster hits he has been receiving stop the small subtle mistakes will also and the offense will be rolling again. that's just me though. It seems most are really looking to turn him into a villain here. I got that sense when I first signed up in the spring and it feels like it is building momentum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, FireChans said: ???? Josh had 4 TO's against the Jets. Patrick had 3. You forgot Mahomes 4th turnover against the Jets that was taken away by a phantom defensive PI call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: Who is saying Allen is above reproach and should never be criticized? You are mislabeling those of us who push back hard on over the top attacks on Allen as people that are unwilling to tolerate any legitimate criticisms of Allen. That is not what is going on here. And your choice of "Saint Allen" in your thread title betrays your misreading of what we're saying. I have no problems with legit criticisms of Allen. But I'm also not obligated to agree with every one of these criticisms either. There are places where reasonable and knowledgeable Bills fans can disagree on Allen. After all those of us called "Allen homers" on 2BD largely criticized Allen after the Jets game. And we don't have to be harsh in our criticism. IMO Allen has earned the benefit of the doubt from Bills fans that no QB since Jim Kelly has earned. I see to many posters tell us Allen is lazy or can't read defenses or is distracted by off field activities or doesn't see the field well and on and on. I don't agree with this because while it is true that Allen is many of these things at times in a game, like every other QB, it is also true that overall Allen is not these things. And my proof is his season to date stats. Allen's rank among QB Starters: Yards passing = #6 Passing TD's = tied with Mahomes & Tua for #2 Total TD's = #1 Regular QB Rating = #6 QBR = #3 Sorry but given the quality of the Bills O line and skill players not named Diggs a QB that doesn't see the field well or read defenses could not put up these stats. Allen is not surrounded by the Eagles or 49's offensive units. Bringing it back to the NE game. Some of us are reacting to those claiming that Allen played terribly. Do you think he did? The objective evidence overwhelmingly supports that overall he played very good and had the Bills in a position to win the game. That is not saying Allen couldn't have played better, he could have. If elite Allen was on the field the Bills win that game no matter what the D does. So a reasonable position to disagree IMO is whether Allen was very good or just good in the NE game. I would never characterize Allen's play against NE as great that would be wrong. But equally wrong is to try to claim Allen played poorly against NE. But as Greg Cosell says repeatedly when discussing the Bills: "If you need your QB to be elite in every game you have a big problem and it's not the QB". There’s a decent amount of people here that lose their minds if anyone questions our lord and savior Josh Allen. Just look at the reacts to each post that even comes close to questioning Allen. The negative ones are usually the same people and your answer to the bold. Josh does some amazing things but also does some bone headed things. There’s things he’s improved on and things that are still the same as when he was a rookie. He’s a tremendous talent but when you look at the all 22 there’s a lot of times he leaves plays that should have been made on the field. He very well could be the most talented person to ever play QB. He needs to improve his pre and post snap reads along with touch and anticipation. He’s top three with his issues. He should be the unquestioned best. Edited October 24, 2023 by Not at the table Karlos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 59 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: Mahomes and Allen are pretty darn close in all of the statistical measures. I would agree that Mahomes is a bit ahead of him at this point in the season. But NO ONE would call out Mahomes for the things they're calling out Allen for. Yet objectively both QB's performance over the season so far is very similar. Allen had the worst game of the two but he also had the best game of the two. So again why are people dogging Allen about reading defenses and seeing the field in ways they wouldn't dare say about Mahomes for fear of looking stupid? It's really simple here. It's all about the rings. Mahomes has two and Allen doesn't even have a bracket yet. That's really the only stat that counts when you have elite status. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 TRADE HIM! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, newcam2012 said: It's really simple here. It's all about the rings. Mahomes has two and Allen doesn't even have a bracket yet. That's really the only stat that counts when you have elite status. You will never convince me Dan Marino wasn't elite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, Einstein said: You forgot Mahomes 4th turnover against the Jets that was taken away by a phantom defensive PI call. Oh yeah, Buffalo never gets favorable calls lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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