Mikie2times Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) The responses here are funny. Any human on this planet is free and clear to ask whatever the “F” they want to be compensated. It’s up to the free market to make a decision if that request makes sense or not. Nobody ever got more by asking for less. He is an entertainer. Nothing more. He doesn’t have to show some sort of love for the game because that was the image of his predecessors. If that answer doesn’t work, again, free market. Edited October 20, 2023 by Mikie2times 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Super Fan Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 He won’t get NFL ownership unless he buys it in a ownership group in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 On 10/18/2023 at 10:30 PM, CDogg20 said: Per reports, Caleb Williams is demanding part ownership of whatever team that drafts him. I wanna hear what my favorite people gave to say about this! Personally I think this could potentially destroy his draft stock unless he backs off of it. Absolutely ludacris to think that much of yourself Well the good news is...belichik would never draft that kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 21 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Setting aside CW’s specific situation, how exactly is “the horse out of the barn”? No NFL team has given a player ownership as part of their contract as a player. Nor has one given that to a coach. The NFL is not an also-ran league like the MLS or XFL. A former player, coach or GM can buy in just like anyone else. It won’t even matter if an owner pulls a Haslam/Watson and tries to do it because the league will never allow it to happen. I just meant the fact that it's being discussed more and more. Momentum is building. The League office will do its best to shut that down as quickly as possible. But the more it gets talked about, the more agents think about it, and come up with ways to pitch it, next thing you know it will become a bargaining chip in the next round of CBA negotiations. I guess I've just seen it so many times in my career in tech. Someone comes up with an idea that seems crazy. Everyone says "No way!" at first, especially those that will be most affected by it. But if there is a want, and there IS a want here, then it slowly builds. Next thing you know, it's happening. And then it's like it was always there the whole time and no big deal. I know when we were growing up, no player was ever talking about team ownership or ownership as compensation. Now they are across most of the leagues. And we've already seen a few instances of it being discussed in the NFL. All you need is that seed of thought to be planted, and it's on. Not saying it will happen quickly, but I'd bet within the next few rounds of CBA renewals you'll see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 17 hours ago, bigK14094 said: They should start their own league then. They should! If the NFLPA decided they were taking all the players and starting their own league, I guarantee that would be the league you watch. Heck, if the top 100 players defected and started their own league, that would be the league we all watch. The owners bring zero value to the table. ZERO. It's all about the players. They are the reason we watch. They are the reason the league rakes in billions of dollars every year. The spite and vitriol displayed in this thread is so weird. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 34 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: They should! If the NFLPA decided they were taking all the players and starting their own league, I guarantee that would be the league you watch. Heck, if the top 100 players defected and started their own league, that would be the league we all watch. The owners bring zero value to the table. ZERO. It's all about the players. They are the reason we watch. They are the reason the league rakes in billions of dollars every year. The spite and vitriol displayed in this thread is so weird. the catch is the owners control the infrastructure and the logistics of the league. without those two the NFLPA could never succeed. the logistics of the nfl schedule is absolutely amazing from the league level down to the team. the communication and coordination on that level is tremendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, boyst said: the catch is the owners control the infrastructure and the logistics of the league. without those two the NFLPA could never succeed. the logistics of the nfl schedule is absolutely amazing from the league level down to the team. the communication and coordination on that level is tremendous. Cmon man, that isnt wizardry or rocket surgery. The Player's League would just hire folks to do that work, same as it is today. Stadiums would be the hardest thing to figure out right away, but USFL and XFL pulled it off. The more talented league would have an easier time catching on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob71 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 I told the Bills I will no longer be a fan without part ownership... they are considering it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Cmon man, that isnt wizardry or rocket surgery. The Player's League would just hire folks to do that work, same as it is today. Stadiums would be the hardest thing to figure out right away, but USFL and XFL pulled it off. The more talented league would have an easier time catching on. Nope, the hardest part will be walking away from BILLIONS of dollars in TV contracts until the league is proven and a deal can be struck. Owners could act as the bank there, but we are getting rid of the owners. If your career only lasts a few more years, who wants to give up the vast majority of their income as an investment for future generations. Yeah, that would be nobody. Players are in it for the money. They won’t walk away from that. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Augie said: Nope, the hardest part will be walking away from BILLIONS of dollars in TV contracts until the league is proven and a deal can be struck. Owners could act as the bank there, but we are getting rid of the owners. If your career only lasts a few more years, who wants to give up the vast majority of their income as an investment for future generations. Yeah, that would be nobody. Players are in it for the money. They won’t walk away from that. I'm not saying it would happen or will happen or it would be easy. Just illustrating the point that the viewership would follow the players. 16 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. You guys are really spun up on this whole thing No one is seriously arguing the bold. The whole point was the owners need players more than the players need owners. Starting a new league would be tough, but at this point, there is no reason the players/CBA dont take a larger share of the existing league now that all of the founding owners are dead/out. Edited October 20, 2023 by DrDawkinstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) The more I think of this and the more you see "I'd take him off my board!" the more I wonder if that's the strategy. The talking heads in the media act like "falling down the board" is a bad thing, when in reality you drop a few spots and end up on a team like Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver with Sean Payton, NE with a long history, rich owner, and lots of $$ who just had down years... Maybe that's the plan. OR create enough true doubt in the Chicagos of the world that they will trade out of the pick. Right now Chicago has the #1 and #2 picks. What if they hired a real coaching staff, picked their QB at #1 and traded #2 for an insane amount of capital? Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoolhouserock Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 The NFL cannot allow this to happen. Imagine if teams could offer ownership stakes to their franchise QB. They could potentially minimize QB contracts that go against the cap. It would be a huge competitive advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Somebody will draft him high in the first round. Then there will be a long holdout. If I were to bet, I'd bet that he never gets his share of ownership. The team that drafts him will regret it and he will be an epic bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Don't care enough about a guy who will never be a Bill to read a 9 page thread to see if there is any further info on how real this story is or not. It doesn't matter how real it is or not, because there is less than a 0% chance any team would give a player who has never stepped on an NFL field part ownership in a team. Note: There is less than a 0% chance they would do this for any player in the league ever, not even a Mahomes. Players come and go, the league is forever. They can't and will not ever open that pandoras box, nor should they. So this is either utter delusion by Caleb who is about to get a rude awakening, who isn't even playing that great the past couple weeks by the way...or it's just a BS story or some some exaggerated story that probably originated off a joke or something. PS: Good chance too this is just some postering his team around him is doing in terms of maybe trying to affect some teams interest that he does not want to play for who may be in contention for the top pick too. All the talk around LA is that he will stay at USC if certain teams end up with the top pick and intend on picking him. So this could be some games or a smoke screen to try and cool some interest from teams he doesn't want to play for too. For example, from what I have heard is that there is no way he will go to Chicago even though all my Chicago friends think they are getting both Caleb and Harrison Jr this draft. Supposedly he won't go to a team that has a poor history of developing QB's, and Chicago's track record might be the worst in the NFL at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: I just meant the fact that it's being discussed more and more. Momentum is building. The League office will do its best to shut that down as quickly as possible. But the more it gets talked about, the more agents think about it, and come up with ways to pitch it, next thing you know it will become a bargaining chip in the next round of CBA negotiations. I guess I've just seen it so many times in my career in tech. Someone comes up with an idea that seems crazy. Everyone says "No way!" at first, especially those that will be most affected by it. But if there is a want, and there IS a want here, then it slowly builds. Next thing you know, it's happening. And then it's like it was always there the whole time and no big deal. I know when we were growing up, no player was ever talking about team ownership or ownership as compensation. Now they are across most of the leagues. And we've already seen a few instances of it being discussed in the NFL. All you need is that seed of thought to be planted, and it's on. Not saying it will happen quickly, but I'd bet within the next few rounds of CBA renewals you'll see it. I get what you’re saying about things coming to pass that were once unthinkable. But I think this is a hill NFL owners would die on. However it is an excellent negotiating tactic toward fully guaranteed contracts. Compared to players getting a piece of ownership of a team a fully guaranteed 5 or 6 year deal is very palatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Absolutely worth the shot to ask for an ownership stake. Who here thinks it's bad business? If a team says no or league squashes it, then so be it. And no QB needy franchise is taking him off their board. Edited October 20, 2023 by Chicken Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: who is going to pay the players in this new league? If this was something they wanted to do they could try to go to a league that already exists like the XFL and make $50,000. And if they are under contract with an NFL team things would be dicey legally to say the least. This was already done in the past with the USFL. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, lots of big names played there for a bit but not many % wise and the NFL did just fine. The idea that the top players would all decide to leave the NFL and take a massive paycut so that some unproven rookie can get part ownership of an NFL team (but they're leaving?) is just goofy. What would happen IF a bunch of big name guys left is other NFL players would see opportunity for starting jobs and more $$ in the big league. You think Mahomes is walking away from a half billion dollars to make peanuts in some spring league? There is 0% chance any player is getting part ownership of a team, especially an unproven rookie. He will get tens of millions of dollars per year though, mostly guaranteed. Ever heard of LIV Golf? Never count the Saudis out from trying to do something crazy and throw HUGE money at it. They could go after a guy like Williams and whoever might be coming up as FA for the year and flip stuff on its head real quick. Take away the young stars by offering more money than the NFL will.. get weird quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: Ever heard of LIV Golf? Never count the Saudis out from trying to do something crazy and throw HUGE money at it. They could go after a guy like Williams and whoever might be coming up as FA for the year and flip stuff on its head real quick. Take away the young stars by offering more money than the NFL will.. get weird quick. The big difference though is LIV is just a handful of golfers. Football you need huge rosters, practice facilities, stadiums, coaching staffs, support staffs, training staffs, coaches, referees... By the time you get to practice squads and full rosters you would need 350 (ish) players just to field 6 teams, which is a tiny league. Way different from tossing gazillions of $ at a handful of big names like what happened with golf. The courses already exist and it's an individual sport for the most part. Football is enormously expensive in terms of overhead, and you need a ton of players to make it work, which is why a lot of smaller schools don't have it. Edited October 20, 2023 by TheFunPolice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 18 hours ago, foreboding said: Well the good news is...belichik would never draft that kind of guy. Bad news, probably won't be his call come draft time. Good news, Kraft can give him partial ownership of one of his favorite day spas if he wanted to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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