OLine/QB Unforced Error Review - All 22 - Week 3 - Washington

[Bocephuz]

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

- BROWN - Brown's best game this year.. but still not good enough. He had a few decent reps where he stood his ground in one on one situations.. particularly against the bull rush. As mentioned above he and Torrence did an excellent job of picking up a stunt in q1.  He also again had a lot of help from RBs and TEs chipping in. As always he was cleanly beaten several times on speed rushes.. forcing Allen to scramble prematurely several times.  

- DORSEY - Same as last week.. I counted 7 times where RBs or TEs chipped on opposing DEs (mostly to help Brown.. but a few to help Dion Dawkins as well). These chips have really helped out and generally have generated positive yardage. Good for Dorsey for recognizing his tackles need help now and then. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The interior of the O-LIne was nothing short of spectacular today in pass protect. Cannot say the same for the Tackles.. as both 73 and 79 had their share of issues against the Commanders. It is obvious that Dorsey now realizes Brown's failings.. and is actively trying to mitigate those failings by sending a RB or TE to help chip on Brown's assignment on about 1/3 of the pass plays. Chipping has been effective.. but the downside is less receivers out on the route.. and the result is usually short yardage dump offs after the chip is executed. Mind you.. I'd rather have the chip blocks than not.. however...these chip blocks really do limit the route depth for Knox and Kincaid. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 2 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - TE Chips DE to help Brown.. even so.. Brown is still beaten by a speed rush..forcing 17 to scramble prematurely. 

 

q1 - Brown and Torrence do nice job of identifying and successfully picking up a stunt

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush..forces rushed throw from JA

 

q1 - UNFORCED ERROR 1 -  Josh makes a dangerous thrown over the middle into triple coverage that is mercifully knocked down

 

q2 - Allen has several plays in a row where he gets the quick game going.. ball out on time to Diggs and Sherfield

 

q2 - Cook has excellent blitz pickup on LB

 

q2 - Both Brown and Dawkins bull-rushed into Allen forcing an incomplete

 

q3- UNFORCED ERROR 2 - Josh has time.. throws ball deep down sideline to Davis for jump ball.. intercepted. 

 

q3-  Josh evades free blitzer and runs into end zone for TD 

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Hats off again to Dorsey for having the RBs and TEs chip on pass rushers on a regular basis. Allen generally made good decisions and generally did not bail out of the pocket unnecessarily. In particular.. he was very good at beating the blitz with his legs (see q3 TD). He also had a few series where the quick game got going and the ball was out as soon as he hit his drop.. negating any potential pass rush issues.

 

McGovern and Torrence have been outstanding additions and continue to impress. I'll give Dawkins a bit of a pass on this one as giving up 2 pressures to a stud like Chase Young is to be expected. Brown.. Brown.. Brown.... he continues to be the weak link and the need for Dorsey to hold in Knox and Kincaid to chip on a regular basis is stunting the downfield/ seam route potential for both of these TEs. Hopefully we will see a change at RT before mid season. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Bocephuz

[Allen2Moulds]

Thank as always for doing this.

 

I'm ok with that second forced error, given the down and distance (3rd and 20), one on one on the outside with Gabe. Too deep for Gabe to have a chance to make a play on it. Not sure if he slowed up, or all on Josh.

[Bocephuz]

5 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Thank as always for doing this.

 

I'm ok with that second forced error, given the down and distance (3rd and 20), one on one on the outside with Gabe. Too deep for Gabe to have a chance to make a play on it. Not sure if he slowed up, or all on Josh.

Happy to do it.

 

To your point.. as far as interceptions go that one is somewhat forgiveable. Nevertheless.. it was unforced.. it was his choice. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

38 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

- BROWN - Brown's best game this year.. but still not good enough. He had a few decent reps where he stood his ground in one on one situations.. particularly against the bull rush. As mentioned above he and Torrence did an excellent job of picking up a stunt in q1.  He also again had a lot of help from RBs and TEs chipping in. As always he was cleanly beaten several times on speed rushes.. forcing Allen to scramble prematurely several times.  

- DORSEY - Same as last week.. I counted 7 times where RBs or TEs chipped on opposing DEs (mostly to help Brown.. but a few to help Dion Dawkins as well). These chips have really helped out and generally have generated positive yardage. Good for Dorsey for recognizing his tackles need help now and then. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The interior of the O-LIne was nothing short of spectacular today in pass protect. Cannot say the same for the Tackles.. as both 73 and 79 had their share of issues against the Commanders. It is obvious that Dorsey now realizes Brown's failings.. and is actively trying to mitigate those failings by sending a RB or TE to help chip on Brown's assignment on about 1/3 of the pass plays. Chipping has been effective.. but the downside is less receivers out on the route.. and the result is usually short yardage dump offs after the chip is executed. Mind you.. I'd rather have the chip blocks than not.. however...these chip blocks really do limit the route depth for Knox and Kincaid. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 2 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - TE Chips DE to help Brown.. even so.. Brown is still beaten by a speed rush..forcing 17 to scramble prematurely. 

 

q1 - Brown and Torrence do nice job of identifying and successfully picking up a stunt

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush..forces rushed throw from JA

 

q1 - UNFORCED ERROR 1 -  Josh makes a dangerous thrown over the middle into triple coverage that is mercifully knocked down

 

q2 - Allen has several plays in a row where he gets the quick game going.. ball out on time to Diggs and Sherfield

 

q2 - Cook has excellent blitz pickup on LB

 

q2 - Both Brown and Dawkins bull-rushed into Allen forcing an incomplete

 

q3- UNFORCED ERROR 2 - Josh has time.. throws ball deep down sideline to Davis for jump ball.. intercepted. 

 

q3-  Josh evades free blitzer and runs into end zone for TD 

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Hats off again to Dorsey for having the RBs and TEs chip on pass rushers on a regular basis. Allen generally made good decisions and generally did not bail out of the pocket unnecessarily. In particular.. he was very good at beating the blitz with his legs (see q3 TD). He also had a few series where the quick game got going and the ball was out as soon as he hit his drop.. negating any potential pass rush issues.

 

McGovern and Torrence have been outstanding additions and continue to impress. I'll give Dawkins a bit of a pass on this one as giving up 2 pressures to a stud like Chase Young is to be expected. Brown.. Brown.. Brown.... he continues to be the weak link and the need for Dorsey to hold in Knox and Kincaid to chip on a regular basis is stunting the downfield/ seam route potential for both of these TEs. Hopefully we will see a change at RT before mid season. 

Thank you for this. In the last 3 weeks the Bills have faced arguably 2 of the top 5 DL's in the NFL and held up well.  They also seem to be improving each week which is what we all hope for.

[Bocephuz]

McGovern has been a huge upgrade at LG over Saffold

 

Torrence has done a good job filling Bates' shoes so far at RG.

[DJB]

This is far better than any PFF nonsense that they spew 

 

Thank you!

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

- BROWN - Brown's best game this year.. but still not good enough. He had a few decent reps where he stood his ground in one on one situations.. particularly against the bull rush. As mentioned above he and Torrence did an excellent job of picking up a stunt in q1.  He also again had a lot of help from RBs and TEs chipping in. As always he was cleanly beaten several times on speed rushes.. forcing Allen to scramble prematurely several times.  

- DORSEY - Same as last week.. I counted 7 times where RBs or TEs chipped on opposing DEs (mostly to help Brown.. but a few to help Dion Dawkins as well). These chips have really helped out and generally have generated positive yardage. Good for Dorsey for recognizing his tackles need help now and then. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The interior of the O-LIne was nothing short of spectacular today in pass protect. Cannot say the same for the Tackles.. as both 73 and 79 had their share of issues against the Commanders. It is obvious that Dorsey now realizes Brown's failings.. and is actively trying to mitigate those failings by sending a RB or TE to help chip on Brown's assignment on about 1/3 of the pass plays. Chipping has been effective.. but the downside is less receivers out on the route.. and the result is usually short yardage dump offs after the chip is executed. Mind you.. I'd rather have the chip blocks than not.. however...these chip blocks really do limit the route depth for Knox and Kincaid. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 2 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - TE Chips DE to help Brown.. even so.. Brown is still beaten by a speed rush..forcing 17 to scramble prematurely. 

 

q1 - Brown and Torrence do nice job of identifying and successfully picking up a stunt

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush..forces rushed throw from JA

 

q1 - UNFORCED ERROR 1 -  Josh makes a dangerous thrown over the middle into triple coverage that is mercifully knocked down

 

q2 - Allen has several plays in a row where he gets the quick game going.. ball out on time to Diggs and Sherfield

 

q2 - Cook has excellent blitz pickup on LB

 

q2 - Both Brown and Dawkins bull-rushed into Allen forcing an incomplete

 

q3- UNFORCED ERROR 2 - Josh has time.. throws ball deep down sideline to Davis for jump ball.. intercepted. 

 

q3-  Josh evades free blitzer and runs into end zone for TD 

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Hats off again to Dorsey for having the RBs and TEs chip on pass rushers on a regular basis. Allen generally made good decisions and generally did not bail out of the pocket unnecessarily. In particular.. he was very good at beating the blitz with his legs (see q3 TD). He also had a few series where the quick game got going and the ball was out as soon as he hit his drop.. negating any potential pass rush issues.

 

McGovern and Torrence have been outstanding additions and continue to impress. I'll give Dawkins a bit of a pass on this one as giving up 2 pressures to a stud like Chase Young is to be expected. Brown.. Brown.. Brown.... he continues to be the weak link and the need for Dorsey to hold in Knox and Kincaid to chip on a regular basis is stunting the downfield/ seam route potential for both of these TEs. Hopefully we will see a change at RT before mid season. 

Thank you for doing this. It is always informative. 

 

I am a bit confused by the part I bolded. Maybe I'm missing something. I likely am. 

 

In the above you said you counted 7 times that a RB or TE was asked to chip in this game. And a few of those were to help Dawkins, not Brown. So that would be 5 chips to help Brown?

 

Allen threw 32 passes. That would be roughly 21% (15% of pass plays to help Brown) of the time either Kincaid, Knox or a RB had to chip. Is this considered needing help on a regular basis? I'd be curious to see what a league average is on it.

 

 

[NewEra]

Stop targeting Spencer Brown!!!  😉 

[Bocephuz]

Regarding the chipping

- That is a good question regarding league wide averages.. I really couldn't tell you what the league wide percentage is. Perhaps PFF has a stat for that?

 

- I can tell you that in my review of Dorsey's games last year ..and in the Jets Game 1 this year.. there were very few instances of RBs or TEs chipping or doubling the DE on pass rush plays

 

- There has clearly been a material difference in amount of called for "chips" and "doubles" by Dorsey the last 2 games. 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

McGovern has been a huge upgrade at LG over Saffold

 

Torrence has done a good job filling Bates' shoes so far at RG.

 

They are both huge upgrades. 

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

- BROWN - Brown's best game this year.. but still not good enough. He had a few decent reps where he stood his ground in one on one situations.. particularly against the bull rush. As mentioned above he and Torrence did an excellent job of picking up a stunt in q1.  He also again had a lot of help from RBs and TEs chipping in. As always he was cleanly beaten several times on speed rushes.. forcing Allen to scramble prematurely several times.  

- DORSEY - Same as last week.. I counted 7 times where RBs or TEs chipped on opposing DEs (mostly to help Brown.. but a few to help Dion Dawkins as well). These chips have really helped out and generally have generated positive yardage. Good for Dorsey for recognizing his tackles need help now and then. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The interior of the O-LIne was nothing short of spectacular today in pass protect. Cannot say the same for the Tackles.. as both 73 and 79 had their share of issues against the Commanders. It is obvious that Dorsey now realizes Brown's failings.. and is actively trying to mitigate those failings by sending a RB or TE to help chip on Brown's assignment on about 1/3 of the pass plays. Chipping has been effective.. but the downside is less receivers out on the route.. and the result is usually short yardage dump offs after the chip is executed. Mind you.. I'd rather have the chip blocks than not.. however...these chip blocks really do limit the route depth for Knox and Kincaid. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 2 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - TE Chips DE to help Brown.. even so.. Brown is still beaten by a speed rush..forcing 17 to scramble prematurely. 

 

q1 - Brown and Torrence do nice job of identifying and successfully picking up a stunt

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush..forces rushed throw from JA

 

q1 - UNFORCED ERROR 1 -  Josh makes a dangerous thrown over the middle into triple coverage that is mercifully knocked down

 

q2 - Allen has several plays in a row where he gets the quick game going.. ball out on time to Diggs and Sherfield

 

q2 - Cook has excellent blitz pickup on LB

 

q2 - Both Brown and Dawkins bull-rushed into Allen forcing an incomplete

 

q3- UNFORCED ERROR 2 - Josh has time.. throws ball deep down sideline to Davis for jump ball.. intercepted. 

 

q3-  Josh evades free blitzer and runs into end zone for TD 

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Hats off again to Dorsey for having the RBs and TEs chip on pass rushers on a regular basis. Allen generally made good decisions and generally did not bail out of the pocket unnecessarily. In particular.. he was very good at beating the blitz with his legs (see q3 TD). He also had a few series where the quick game got going and the ball was out as soon as he hit his drop.. negating any potential pass rush issues.

 

McGovern and Torrence have been outstanding additions and continue to impress. I'll give Dawkins a bit of a pass on this one as giving up 2 pressures to a stud like Chase Young is to be expected. Brown.. Brown.. Brown.... he continues to be the weak link and the need for Dorsey to hold in Knox and Kincaid to chip on a regular basis is stunting the downfield/ seam route potential for both of these TEs. Hopefully we will see a change at RT before mid season. 

So the difference between Dawkins and Brown was one pressure, the Commanders have Sweat on one side and Young on the other, but Dawkins gets a pass and Brown doesn’t.  Right.  Uh huh.  

Edited September 27, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Bocephuz]

 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

So the difference between Dawkins and Brown was one pressure, the Commanders have Sweat one one side and Young in the other, but Dawkins gets a pass and Brown doesn’t.  Right.  Uh huh.  

 

 

I give Dawkins the benefit of the doubt because he has a fairly consistent track record of good performances against elite DEs

 

At this stage Brown no longer gets the benefit of the doubt from me. 

 

If you go back and read my posts from last year.. you will see I gave Dawkins plenty of criticism for his play the first half of the year. Fortunately he rallied and got himself back on track. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

 

 

 

I give Dawkins the benefit of the doubt because he has a fairly consistent track record of good performances against elite DEs

 

At this stage Brown no longer gets the benefit of the doubt from me. 

 

If you go back and read my posts from last year.. you will see I gave Dawkins plenty of criticism for his play the first half of the year. Fortunately he rallied and got himself back on track. 

Do you think it is fair to compare last year to this year given the injuries he was dealing with last year?

 

Ladies and gentlemen, while I understand Brown can certainly improve, the poster is demonstrating classic confirmation bias.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Do you think it is fair to compare last year to this year given the injuries he was dealing with last year?

 

Ladies and gentlemen, while I understand Brown can certainly improve, the poster is demonstrating classic confirmation bias.

What a load of bunk.

This guy does everybody in this community an awesome favor by taking the time to do this and all you can do is rag on him because his detailed study doesn't match up with your own biases. 

Maybe either take the time to do your own study or keep your fact-free carping to yourself.

 

Thank you Bocephuz; 99% of us appreciate what you're doing here. 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Bocephuz said:

 

 

 

I give Dawkins the benefit of the doubt because he has a fairly consistent track record of good performances against elite DEs

 

At this stage Brown no longer gets the benefit of the doubt from me. 

 

If you go back and read my posts from last year.. you will see I gave Dawkins plenty of criticism for his play the first half of the year. Fortunately he rallied and got himself back on track. 

 

Which was the 2nd rep Dion lost? I am on vacation so haven't been through this week's a22. The 3rd down in the endzone and when was the other? Want to try and find it cos I definitely missed it live.

[oldmanfan]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

What a load of bunk.

This guy does everybody in this community an awesome favor by taking the time to do this and all you can do is rag on him because his detailed study doesn't match up with your own biases. 

Maybe either take the time to do your own study or keep your fact-free carping to yourself.

 

Thank you Bocephuz; 99% of us appreciate what you're doing here. 

I am appreciative, but merely going by what he said.  What he said is he saw one more pressure against Guy A than Guy B, each of which were facing tough matchups (funny how there only one guy was mentioned but not the other first round guy), but decided to cut Guy B slack vs. Guy A because he had already formed an opinion of Guy A.  Stats 101 tells you that’s confirmation bias.

 

I have said both in your thread and here Brown can certainly improve.  But you are bound and determined to throw him under the bus regardless.  In fact in your thread someone informed you that the number of times a guy got chipped to help Brown was much less than you said and you indicated that individual may be right since you actually missed a large number of snaps.  Guess what that’s called?  Hint - see above.

 

Brown is not the best RT out there.  He is good in the run game but susceptible in pass protection, to me because his height and overall size may work against him at times.  He is to me the 5the best starting lineman   All I am asking people to do is look at the guy with objectivity and not pre-conceived bias.

Edited September 27, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Dr Krentist]

Another unforced error by Josh is this play. He had Cook to the left with three blockers but instead throws it to Diggs. Maybe that was the play design, I don't know.

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

but decided to cut Guy B slack vs. Guy A because he had already formed an opinion of Guy A

 

His cutting him some slack has ZERO to do with his opinion; it was entirely about the clear, documented history of both players.

Which he told you. And you proceeded to ignore so you could rag on him with your own spin.

The last word is yours; I'm done clogging up a great thread with your self-aggrandizing bull####.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Dr Krentist said:

Another unforced error by Josh is this play. He had Cook to the left with three blockers but instead throws it to Diggs. Maybe that was the play design, I don't know.

Have to imagine that's the design

 

Look at how the line is moving to next level

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Dr Krentist said:

Another unforced error by Josh is this play. He had Cook to the left with three blockers but instead throws it to Diggs. Maybe that was the play design, I don't know.

 

That is design. Wide receiver screen all the way. Commanders read it. Bad playcall in that situation IMO. 3rd and long, fringe FG range, can't call a play that risks losing yards.

 

Bass bailed Dorsey out nailing a 54 yarder that would have been good from 60

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Dr Krentist said:

Another unforced error by Josh is this play. He had Cook to the left with three blockers but instead throws it to Diggs. Maybe that was the play design, I don't know.

 

That's a designed WR screen.

[Simon]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

That is design. Wide receiver screen all the way. Commanders read it. Bad playcall in that situation IMO.

 

Not necessarily.

The trips leaves Diggs with only one guy to beat. I'll take those odds on most snaps.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

His cutting him some slack has ZERO to do with his opinion; it was entirely about the clear, documented history of both players.

Which he told you. And you proceeded to ignore so you could rag on him with your own spin.

The last word is yours; I'm done clogging up a great thread with your self-aggrandizing bull####.

You don’t like being told you might be wrong.  Too bad.

 

I will say again Brown certainly has room to improve.  

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is design. Wide receiver screen all the way. Commanders read it. Bad playcall in that situation IMO.

 

Yeah I agree.  That's something you call 2nd and 5...not 3rd and 12.  

Edited September 27, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Not necessarily.

The trips leaves Diggs with only one guy to beat. I'll take those odds on most snaps.

Correct imo

 

up 10 and wanting to get the ball in your playmakers hands w zero risk, best case scenario he picks up the first down, second best he gets you closer in FG range, almost no chance of incompletion/INT, plus a rainy day...there is nothing wrong w this playcall

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Bocephuz said:

Regarding the chipping

- That is a good question regarding league wide averages.. I really couldn't tell you what the league wide percentage is. Perhaps PFF has a stat for that?

 

- I can tell you that in my review of Dorsey's games last year ..and in the Jets Game 1 this year.. there were very few instances of RBs or TEs chipping or doubling the DE on pass rush plays

 

- There has clearly been a material difference in amount of called for "chips" and "doubles" by Dorsey the last 2 games. 

 

Makes a lot of sense. I feel somewhat nlike the extra chips possibly were gameplan specific to help against Crosby and help our 5th best OLman against a strong front 4. 

 

Should be interesting to see going forward if he's left on an island a bit more against other guys or of this is just what they have to do to set him up better. 

 

Again, thank you for your work in these threads. Always good to learn!

[Bocephuz]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Do you think it is fair to compare last year to this year given the injuries he was dealing with last year?

 

Ladies and gentlemen, while I understand Brown can certainly improve, the poster is demonstrating classic confirmation bias.

Brown’s performance this year is near identical to last year. If he was injured last year .. and thus healthy this year.. his 2023 performance so far clearly indicates health was not the problem 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which was the 2nd rep Dion lost? I am on vacation so haven't been through this week's a22. The 3rd down in the endzone and when was the other? Want to try and find it cos I definitely missed it live.

 

4 hours ago, Dr Krentist said:

Another unforced error by Josh is this play. He had Cook to the left with three blockers but instead throws it to Diggs. Maybe that was the play design, I don't know.

good catch. i miss a few occasionally. always happy to learn from others observations 

[Fan in Chicago]

8 hours ago, Bocephuz said:

I

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

 

 

In the past two game, it is really nice to see a nice clean pocket and more than 2 seconds for JA to scan the field. I cant remember the last time I saw such consistent clean pockets. The interior of the line has been very solid. 

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Thank you for this. In the last 3 weeks the Bills have faced arguably 2 of the top 5 DL's in the NFL and held up well.  They also seem to be improving each week which is what we all hope for.

This week will be no easy...

[Bocephuz]

16 minutes ago, ganesh said:

This week will be no easy...

It will not be. Hopefully Josh can stay disciplined and pick his spots 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I wouldn’t call the play @Dr Krentist posted an error, mostly because a WR option was like 1 of the options on this play.

 

Allen likely had some sort of read, maybe a safety or LB, to key in on which would tell him where to go. 
 

Although the line appears to be working towards Diggs, they are really working hat to hat. The Cook swing was there, and they had it lined up just about as well as you could want it (given the down and distance).

 

As others have mentioned, since we don’t know the key or what Dorsey is telling Allen in his ear given weather, situation etc, I think this is a pass. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Not necessarily.

The trips leaves Diggs with only one guy to beat. I'll take those odds on most snaps.

 

I think it's the situation that makes it bad.  Call plays that don't have a high chance of losing yards. We aren't good with screens to begin with. Short routes with throw aways. A solid run call. Something like that. We luckily were able to still hit the FG. JMO.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah I agree.  That's something you call 2nd and 5...not 3rd and 12.  

 

I am fine with it 3rd and 12 if you are 5 yards further in and I take the point that based on the alignment it has a chance to work. But when you are 3rd and long on the edge of FG range it is a bad idea to call something that risks losing yards IMO. 

 

Bass bailed them out. That call could have been one that took points off the board.

9 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Not necessarily.

The trips leaves Diggs with only one guy to beat. I'll take those odds on most snaps.

 

Yes, but it is the wrong situation to call a play that risks losing yardage. 

[27yanks]

20 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Do you think it is fair to compare last year to this year given the injuries he was dealing with last year?

 

Ladies and gentlemen, while I understand Brown can certainly improve, the poster is demonstrating classic confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias is the tendency of people's minds to seek out information that supports the views they already hold. It also leads people to interpret evidence in ways that support their pre-existing beliefs, expectations, or hypotheses.

 

It's not Confirmation Bias when the player keeps providing the data, that in the judgement(based on clear accurate data) of Bocephuz seems to be solid and without bias. Facts and the videos don't lie. 

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, 27yanks said:

Confirmation bias is the tendency of people's minds to seek out information that supports the views they already hold. It also leads people to interpret evidence in ways that support their pre-existing beliefs, expectations, or hypotheses.

 

It's not Confirmation Bias when the player keeps providing the data, that in the judgement(based on clear accurate data) of Bocephuz seems to be solid and without bias. Facts and the videos don't lie. 

But is one’s judgment clouded because one expects to see poor performance?

[27yanks]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:38 PM, oldmanfan said:

But is one’s judgment clouded because one expects to see poor performance?

Obsolutely. 

[Big Turk]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:55 PM, Bocephuz said:

In the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays

 

I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays). 

 

UNFORCED ERROR  =  Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision 

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN =  O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block

 

____

 

OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS

DAWKINS - 2

MCGOVERN - 0

MORSE - 0

TORRENCE - 0

BROWN - 3

 

 

-DAWKINS - Dion drew a tough matchup with Chase Young across from him most of the day. Young beat him a few times ..collapsing the pocket. In general Dawkins was solid

- MCGOVERN - Again.. another clean sheet for McGovern. To my eye he did not misread any stunts or give up any pressures.

- MORSE - 2 weeks in a row with a clean sheet in pass pro for the reliable vet

- TORRENCE - Yet another solid performance. He and Brown successfully identified and picked up a stunt in q1

- BROWN - Brown's best game this year.. but still not good enough. He had a few decent reps where he stood his ground in one on one situations.. particularly against the bull rush. As mentioned above he and Torrence did an excellent job of picking up a stunt in q1.  He also again had a lot of help from RBs and TEs chipping in. As always he was cleanly beaten several times on speed rushes.. forcing Allen to scramble prematurely several times.  

- DORSEY - Same as last week.. I counted 7 times where RBs or TEs chipped on opposing DEs (mostly to help Brown.. but a few to help Dion Dawkins as well). These chips have really helped out and generally have generated positive yardage. Good for Dorsey for recognizing his tackles need help now and then. 

 

OL SUMMARY :  The interior of the O-LIne was nothing short of spectacular today in pass protect. Cannot say the same for the Tackles.. as both 73 and 79 had their share of issues against the Commanders. It is obvious that Dorsey now realizes Brown's failings.. and is actively trying to mitigate those failings by sending a RB or TE to help chip on Brown's assignment on about 1/3 of the pass plays. Chipping has been effective.. but the downside is less receivers out on the route.. and the result is usually short yardage dump offs after the chip is executed. Mind you.. I'd rather have the chip blocks than not.. however...these chip blocks really do limit the route depth for Knox and Kincaid. 

 

QB UNFORCED ERRORS:  Josh had 2 unforced errors by my count.  Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially.  

 

SIGNIFICANT PLAYS - 

 

q1 - TE Chips DE to help Brown.. even so.. Brown is still beaten by a speed rush..forcing 17 to scramble prematurely. 

 

q1 - Brown and Torrence do nice job of identifying and successfully picking up a stunt

 

q1 - Brown beaten by speed rush..forces rushed throw from JA

 

q1 - UNFORCED ERROR 1 -  Josh makes a dangerous thrown over the middle into triple coverage that is mercifully knocked down

 

q2 - Allen has several plays in a row where he gets the quick game going.. ball out on time to Diggs and Sherfield

 

q2 - Cook has excellent blitz pickup on LB

 

q2 - Both Brown and Dawkins bull-rushed into Allen forcing an incomplete

 

q3- UNFORCED ERROR 2 - Josh has time.. throws ball deep down sideline to Davis for jump ball.. intercepted. 

 

q3-  Josh evades free blitzer and runs into end zone for TD 

 

 

 

 

SUMMARY  -  Hats off again to Dorsey for having the RBs and TEs chip on pass rushers on a regular basis. Allen generally made good decisions and generally did not bail out of the pocket unnecessarily. In particular.. he was very good at beating the blitz with his legs (see q3 TD). He also had a few series where the quick game got going and the ball was out as soon as he hit his drop.. negating any potential pass rush issues.

 

McGovern and Torrence have been outstanding additions and continue to impress. I'll give Dawkins a bit of a pass on this one as giving up 2 pressures to a stud like Chase Young is to be expected. Brown.. Brown.. Brown.... he continues to be the weak link and the need for Dorsey to hold in Knox and Kincaid to chip on a regular basis is stunting the downfield/ seam route potential for both of these TEs. Hopefully we will see a change at RT before mid season. 

 

I believe Allen was not making the right line calls for the protection scheme, and this was noticeable in the first half because there were several times he had near immediate pressure while 2 or 3 of the OLinemen were blocking air.  To me, that signals he is not setting up blockers properly.  Seems like he/Morse/Dorsey got things figured in the 2nd half and things were better.

 

I remember an interview where Allen talked about Morse making all the protection calls for him...I think maybe back in 2019?  When he first started emerging and how it allowed him to not have so much on his plate because Morse was so good at getting them set right.  Wondering if I am blaming the wrong person here and that should go on Morse if he is still the person making the line calls, or if Allen has "graduated" so to speak on that.  I think he has and that he was setting those protections, but they didn't look right...similar to the Bengals playoff game, he was not getting those blitzes blocked up properly and it was causing havoc.  

 

IMO, this is a big reason why you have to take what happens on a given play with a grain of salt because we don't always know what their assignment was supposed to be based on the protection call made at the line or if it was changed.

 

@HoofHeartedis there any merit to what my untrained eyes were seeing in both last night and the Bengal playoff game?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Big Turk