ESPN article ranking the top NFL rosters

[PBF81]

16 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23259671221079637

 

Interesting study

 

 

[NewEra]

I wonder if we can turn this thread into every other thread?

 

yup

[PBF81]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

 

This seems flawed from the beginning. It measures how many players play for 3 years post ACL surgery, while ignoring that the average career is only about 3.5 years. WHY are they out of the league? It may be knee related, or guys just don’t last that long. You would expect a low percentage. 

 

I'm not sure that flawed is the right descriptor there.  Like many or even most studies it's limited.  

 

Unless I missed it, I didn't see any accounting for age e.g. 

 

It definitely presented some interesting and relevant stuff.  

 

 

[TC in St. Louis]

I can't wait for this season.  The team has improved at RB, TE, OL, WR, DL, DE, CB, and safety.  Hold steady at LB and let's roll.

[PBF81]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

Still, saying only 28.5% are still in the league 3 years later still sounds like a leading statement, and maybe even misleading. What percentage of players without ACL surgery are still in the league 3 years later. How different is that number? 

 

You just hit on one of that study's issues as it person's to our discussion.

 

Christian Benford suffering an ACL injury would likely end his mediocre career, if not immediately then likely within a season or two tops.  Why?  Because he's not very good to begin with.  White is different.

 

Not that that disputes its conclusions, but I didn't see any provisions for age or how good a player is.  I mean it's pretty certain that a player that is fortunate to make a roster, with an ACL tear, would be finished in the league anyway, regardless of surgery results.  

 

It opens up after that and gets more statistically complicated as well.  Just throwing that out there as one of its nonconsiderations.  

 

 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

With an improved offensive lines and better RBs we should be less predictable. A respectable run game will change the way defenses play us. Hopefully Gabes foot injury is behind him and he improves. 

 

Keep in mind though that better RBs hasn't been our issue.  I also think that time will prove that Singletary is better than Harris, easily, and for certain he's more versatile.  

 

But our problem has simply been putting our RBs to use, particularly when they were running incredibly well.  As I've said, it seems that Dorsey called games last year as if he was vicariously playing QB via Allen.  Like a kid in a pick-up game that constantly has to have the ball.  We all saw those games where our RBs were chewing up yardage by the bushel, and all of a sudden it's an inexplicable lengthy string of passing plays.  It was odd.  

 

 

[PBF81]

22 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

I can't wait for this season.  The team has improved at RB, TE, OL, WR, DL, DE, CB, and safety.  Hold steady at LB and let's roll.

 

Well, that's the narrative anyway.  I would question whether we've improved at RB, CB, Safety or even held steady at LB.  Singletary was more versatile than Harris has ever been in a season, he also averaged more YPC.  Whether a bruiser 2-down three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type RB is an improvement remains to be seen.  Our CBs weren't good last season, so improvement is relative there, we could improve but still have a very average unit.  Safety depends largely upon the injury statuses of both Poyer and Hyde as they age further into their back 9s.  At LB Floyd is a situational player and we have no idea how MLB is going to look right now.  

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think I'd rather have 1 star and 1 solid starter than 4 solid starters in today's NFL.

Nope. Not in McDs defense. He rarely allows his top DB to shadow another teams star WR. 

In this league having 4 quality starter level CBs is a true asset.  Look at the injuries last year alone to Benford and Jackson. White missed time even before the ACL. 

Some have advocated trading Jackson or one of the other guys. 

I think that would be crazy. 

Keep all 4 and if White doesn't return to form move on from him after this year. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Keep in mind though that better RBs hasn't been our issue.  I also think that time will prove that Singletary is better than Harris, easily, and for certain he's more versatile.  

 

But our problem has simply been putting our RBs to use, particularly when they were running incredibly well.  As I've said, it seems that Dorsey called games last year as if he was vicariously playing QB via Allen.  Like a kid in a pick-up game that constantly has to have the ball.  We all saw those games where our RBs were chewing up yardage by the bushel, and all of a sudden it's an inexplicable lengthy string of passing plays.  It was odd.  

 

 

prior to drafting cook, RB was an issue.  Like everyone on the board had said ad nauseam, no one is afraid of our RBs.  No one.   You’d be the first to admit that Beane screwed up when drafting Zack Moss in rd 3 a year after drafting motor rd 3. Neither with speed.  Neither with true power.  2 mid backs.  
 

Motor is more “versatile” than Harris??  Who cares?  We don’t need versatile.  Our RB1 is versatile.  We needed a RB that can move a pile and be a force on the goal line and short yardage situations.  A back that can allow us to NOT use 17’s legs on every short yard attempt.  So…. contrary to your post, RB WAS an issue. We had no one to move the pile.  Now we have 2.
 

 

 

[Haslett_Stomp]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, that's the narrative anyway.  I would question whether we've improved at RB, CB, Safety or even held steady at LB.  Singletary was more versatile than Harris has ever been in a season, he also averaged more YPC.  Whether a bruiser 2-down three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type RB is an improvement remains to be seen.  Our CBs weren't good last season, so improvement is relative there, we could improve but still have a very average unit.  Safety depends largely upon the injury statuses of both Poyer and Hyde as they age further into their back 9s.  At LB Floyd is a situational player and we have no idea how MLB is going to look right now.  

 

 

 

I liked Singletary, however his propensity for drive-killing turnovers/miscues offset many of his positive contributions to the offense.  The same can be said of Davis last season, however I have a hunch he (Davis) will have the kind of season in 2023 everyone was predicting he would have in 2022.

[PBF81]

56 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The fact that he will draft RBs in the top half of the draft over WRs is extremely head scratching… Specifically targeting James Cook as opposed to someone like George Pickens(I know they’d have to trade up for him).

 

It is headscratching, but I'm not a fan of Beane's, you know that.  I'm sure that McD has had a hand in our drafts also, but the biggest flaw that I've seen with them, apart from not getting the value commensurate with the draft spots of their draftees, is in not drafting the positions that would give us the biggest improvement in our ability to effectively navigate the playoffs.  As you say, taking RBs on day 2 consistently, but only drafting WRs on day 3, and 4 of 7 in rounds 6 and 7, makes zero sense given where we've been and that we have Allen.  

 

Similar for OL.  

 

Round 1:  2 DL 

Round 2:  2 OL (one no longer here, the other TBD), 2 DL 
Round 3:  1 OL, 1 DL 

Round 4:  none 

Round 5:  2 OL (one gone, one soon to be cut) 

Round 6:  1 OL (no longer here) 

Round 7:  2 OL, 1 DL  (only this year's OL is here) 

 

That would be fine if in the playoffs our D actually showed up more often than not, but that's not the case.  

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, that's the narrative anyway.  I would question whether we've improved at RB, CB, Safety or even held steady at LB.  Singletary was more versatile than Harris has ever been in a season, he also averaged more YPC.  Whether a bruiser 2-down three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type RB is an improvement remains to be seen.  Our CBs weren't good last season, so improvement is relative there, we could improve but still have a very average unit.  Safety depends largely upon the injury statuses of both Poyer and Hyde as they age further into their back 9s.  At LB Floyd is a situational player and we have no idea how MLB is going to look right now.  

 

 

Elam was playing well down the stretch. McD should have installed him as day 1 starter. Elam should be very good. The question at CB is White. 

MLB is an unmitigated disaster. Quite amazing that they will have an actual downgrade at MLB. I never thought Edmunds made much of an impact but never thought of him as a liability. Now they have smurfs at MLB. I don't agree with the thought process from Beane on MLB. At least Williams seems to have a nose for the ball. 

As for RB, I think Cook does everything Singletary did and Harris is a solid backup. I like the RB moves.

Floyd is a pass rush specialist not a LB. His job is solely to let Miller heal for the first 6 weeks. Then he becomes a solid depth guy for the playoffs. He keeps Epenesa off the field when the game matters. 

The interior of the DL is sneaky better. Hopefully Oliver lives up to the contract. I would never have signed him long term. Hate the move. 

For me biggest question mark is OT. Dawkins regressed and Brown was terrible. Brown still has potential. Beane seems to believe in him more than anyone. Beane's track record on OL is pretty dismal though.  If Doyle is on the 53 that is problematic. I would not be shocked if Snell is starting at RT by week 8 if Brown disappoints again.

I think this is Dawkins last year. He did not get a contract restructure for a reason. They will draft his replacement next year and free up cap space by letting Dawkins go. 

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

prior to drafting cook, RB was an issue.  Like everyone on the board had said ad nauseam, no one is afraid of our RBs.  No one.   You’d be the first to admit that Beane screwed up when drafting Zack Moss in rd 3 a year after drafting motor rd 3. Neither with speed.  Neither with true power.  2 mid backs.  
 

Motor is more “versatile” than Harris??  Who cares?  We don’t need versatile.  Our RB1 is versatile.  We needed a RB that can move a pile and be a force on the goal line and short yardage situations.  A back that can allow us to NOT use 17’s legs on every short yard attempt.  So…. contrary to your post, RB WAS an issue. We had no one to move the pile.  Now we have 2.

 

No one was afraid of our RBs because they knew we wouldn't use them.  We used them less than any other team in the league.  I also distinctly recall reading in many a game thread many talking about how both Cook & Singletary were ripping off huge chunks of yards before Dorsey all but completely abandoned the running game thereafter.  That was my primary point.  

 

Whether or not we need versatility is in the RBs depends upon the play-calling.  Harris' TDs are typically goal-line kinda TDs.  Is he really going to make that kind of difference?  We don't struggle from down there.  We ranked 1st in the league in 3rd-down-conversions, is he really going to add anything there?  

 

I simply don't understand what Harris brings that helps us, besides the narrative, which makes no sense to me.  Sounds like simply more fan-based hope for hope's sake kinda stuff.  

 

Are we really going to become more of a pure running team now that Harris is here?  The smart money says not-a-chance.  I don't see us leaping from DFL in RB utilization to average.  

 

And yes, Moss was a terrible pick.  But consider, Moss and Harris are similarly styled RBs.  IMO Harris is a "mid back" as you put it, as well.  He did nothing great in NE.  ... except against us, literally.  Against the 30 other teams he was the definition of average.  

 

We'll see what happens soon, how they even use our RBs.  So far they've been an afterthought.  

 

 

[PBF81]

33 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

I liked Singletary, however his propensity for drive-killing turnovers/miscues offset many of his positive contributions to the offense.  The same can be said of Davis last season, however I have a hunch he (Davis) will have the kind of season in 2023 everyone was predicting he would have in 2022.

 

You've gotta watch those narratives.  Singletary only fumbled three times last season, twice in wins, once vs. Minnesota, but in that game Minny went 3-and-out the following drive and we got the ball back and scored a TD, so it didn't even matter.  

 

I'm not sure how he would have killed drives otherwise.  We were 1st in the league in 3rd-down-convs.  

 

 

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

No one was afraid of our RBs because they knew we wouldn't use them.  We used them less than any other team in the league.  I also distinctly recall reading in many a game thread many talking about how both Cook & Singletary were ripping off huge chunks of yards before Dorsey all but completely abandoned the running game thereafter.  That was my primary point.  

 

Whether or not we need versatility is in the RBs depends upon the play-calling.  Harris' TDs are typically goal-line kinda TDs.  Is he really going to make that kind of difference?  We don't struggle from down there.  We ranked 1st in the league in 3rd-down-conversions, is he really going to add anything there?  

 

I simply don't understand what Harris brings that helps us, besides the narrative, which makes no sense to me.  Sounds like simply more fan-based hope for hope's sake kinda stuff.  

 

Are we really going to become more of a pure running team now that Harris is here?  The smart money says not-a-chance.  I don't see us leaping from DFL in RB utilization to average.  

 

And yes, Moss was a terrible pick.  But consider, Moss and Harris are similarly styled RBs.  IMO Harris is a "mid back" as you put it, as well.  He did nothing great in NE.  ... except against us, literally.  Against the 30 other teams he was the definition of average.  

 

We'll see what happens soon, how they even use our RBs.  So far they've been an afterthought.  

 

 

I disagree.

 

I’m a motor fan.  I defended him throughout his career here.  He’s a very good make you miss back but he his midget hands, fumbling tendencies, gaffes in the pass game and lack of extra gear is why he wasn’t used as much as some (including me) would’ve liked.   Cook has the extra gear.  Harris has the between the tackles prowess that Motor was missing. Our RB room is much more versatile now that motor and Moss are gone and Harris and Murray are here.

 

I do agree that the play calling is part of the problem- not giving Dorsey (or Daboll) a pass.  I disagree that the RB room isn’t improved and that the RB talent wasn’t part of the problem.  The talent was lacking prior to drafting Cook.  It lacked speed, good hand and power up the middle.  Now we have all 3

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I wonder if we can turn this thread into every other thread?

 

yup

Yes!! Freddie Coleman just diffused Chris Canty on First Take. Freddie called the Bills "the landlords" of the AFC EAST and believes Josh will correct the turnover problems to win it again. Canty chose the Dolphins

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Shhh!!  Beane doesn't have a weak spot!  

 

Besides, that's not at all true, just look at his draft history:

 

2nd Round:  1 RB

3rd Round:  2 RBs 

4th Round:  1 WR

5th Round:  2 WRs

6th Round:  3 WRs (none still here) 

7th Round:  1 WR (no longer here) 

 

Day 1:  None

Day 2:  3 RBs

Day 3:  7 WRs (only 3 still here, one likely in his last season, the other two from this past draft and last year's draft) 

 

So it's clearly not true, and probably best never to challenge Beane's methods here again.  (sarcasm) 

 

Sidenote:  The only great WR he's ever brought here, we paid top dollar for and had a drama history. 

 

 

 

I'm curious how good everyone would think that our roster would be if Allen weren't on it. 

 

We'll never know the answer to that, but I have my suspicions. 

 

 

Here’s the thing though. They did nail the Allen pick.

We sat through two decades of teams that had their fair share of drafted success but never hit on a QB. And the adage that nothing matters until you get the QB is true.

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I disagree.

 

I’m a motor fan.  I defended him throughout his career here.  He’s a very good make you miss back but he his midget hands, fumbling tendencies, gaffes in the pass game and lack of extra gear is why he wasn’t used as much as some (including me) would’ve liked.   Cook has the extra gear.  Harris has the between the tackles prowess that Motor was missing. Our RB room is much more versatile now that motor and Moss are gone and Harris and Murray are here.

 

I do agree that the play calling is part of the problem- not giving Dorsey (or Daboll) a pass.  I disagree that the RB room isn’t improved and that the RB talent wasn’t part of the problem.  The talent was lacking prior to drafting Cook.  It lacked speed, good hand and power up the middle.  Now we have all 3

 

We'll find out soon enough.  I guess I'm merely curious as to why you and others are so high on Harris given his relatively pedestrian stats.  ... except for (literally) against us.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Here’s the thing though. They did nail the Allen pick.

We sat through two decades of teams that had their fair share of drafted success but never hit on a QB. And the adage that nothing matters until you get the QB is true.

 

That's a little off the original point, but either way, nailing one pick hardly makes someone a good drafter.  

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

It is headscratching, but I'm not a fan of Beane's, you know that.  I'm sure that McD has had a hand in our drafts also, but the biggest flaw that I've seen with them, apart from not getting the value commensurate with the draft spots of their draftees, is in not drafting the positions that would give us the biggest improvement in our ability to effectively navigate the playoffs.  As you say, taking RBs on day 2 consistently, but only drafting WRs on day 3, and 4 of 7 in rounds 6 and 7, makes zero sense given where we've been and that we have Allen.  

 

Similar for OL.  

 

Round 1:  2 DL 

Round 2:  2 OL (one no longer here, the other TBD), 2 DL 
Round 3:  1 OL, 1 DL 

Round 4:  none 

Round 5:  2 OL (one gone, one soon to be cut) 

Round 6:  1 OL (no longer here) 

Round 7:  2 OL, 1 DL  (only this year's OL is here) 

 

That would be fine if in the playoffs our D actually showed up more often than not, but that's not the case.  

 

 

Analysis of the investment in the OL that does not include the fact that we have Dawkins and Morse as high paid, relatively young, established starters, is misleading. 

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll find out soon enough.  I guess I'm merely curious as to why you and others are so high on Harris given his relatively pedestrian stats.  ... except for (literally) against us.  

 

 

 

That's a little off the original point, but either way, nailing one pick hardly makes someone a good drafter.  

 

 

Every single one of Beane’s second rounders could’ve been All-Pros and we would have still been worse off if we didn’t have Allen. 
 

It was quite possibly the best pick in Bills history.

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll find out soon enough.  I guess I'm merely curious as to why you and others are so high on Harris given his relatively pedestrian stats.  ... except for (literally) against us.  

 

 

 

That's a little off the original point, but either way, nailing one pick hardly makes someone a good drafter.  

 

 

 

I'm high on Harris for something other than stats.  Though I concede my impression of him is largely based on Bills games - which are weirdly the best games of his career.  

 

But from what I've seen, compared to Motor, Harris is bigger, faster, and stronger.   Harris is a much better inside runner for sure - and we need that - but he's a capable outside runner too with some burst.  

 

As for stats, the Pats run a far more balanced offense than ours.  Our offense revolves around Josh - primarily as a passer but also as a runner.  In fact, Josh has been the only runner Bills that opponents actually fear and game-plan against.  The running backs in Buffalo are an afterthought.  And that's why Motor has such a healthy YPC number.  He plays against light boxes, DEs who focus entirely on Josh, and LBs whose first step is backward rather than forward toward the ball carrier. 

 

NE's opponents actually take Patriot RBs seriously and gameplan against them.  It's therefore harder for Pats RBs to achieve good YPC numbers than Bills RBs.  

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Harty and Sherfield have never had a big season between them and have both averaged less than 200 yards per season over their careers.    

 And what great offensive minds did Harty and Sherfield play for in their illustrious careers thus far?

 

It's like we are betting on the under thus far with these WRs. I do think they have a potential to be better than kumerow and lil dirty, the offense hinges on Davis running more than 2 routes and a rookie TE who is going to be asked to play WR....

 

No concerns here at all...

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll find out soon enough.  I guess I'm merely curious as to why you and others are so high on Harris given his relatively pedestrian stats.  ... except for (literally) against us.  

 

 

 

That's a little off the original point, but either way, nailing one pick hardly makes someone a good drafter.  

 

 

I’m not “so high” on harris.  He’s a good between the tackles RB that can fill a role that we’ve sorely missed.  He’s a good red zone back and rarely ever fumbles.  He has a knack for getting the yards that are needed.  He does things that motor couldn’t.  Motor didn’t really do anything that Cook can’t do.  We’ve added different layers to the RB room that we haven’t had.  
 

Harris was also running in an offense with no passing threats and a below average QB.  4.7 ypc for his career is a solid number-  not pedestrian.  449 attempts and 20 rushing TDs is also a solid number. Meanwhile Motor had 672 carries and 16 TDs…. And his QB has 546 attempts and 38 TDs.  

[Reed83HOF]

48 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think your overrating the RBs and run game in general… it doesn’t/won’t move the needle for this team nearly as much as adding a significant starting WR opposite Diggs would. 

The RB was upgraded, it will help a bit. It certainly won't move the needle like WR2, it's a passing league

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think your overrating the RBs and run game in general… it doesn’t/won’t move the needle for this team nearly as much as adding a significant starting WR opposite Diggs would. 

Right- and they don’t cost nearly as much either

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think your overrating the RBs and run game in general… it doesn’t/won’t move the needle for this team nearly as much as adding a significant starting WR opposite Diggs would. 

 

That's true.  But the two new RBs combined cost less than a "significant starting WR."  

 

On a limited budget and with some draft picks, Beane upgraded the offense.  The OL is better.  Our stable of backs is better.  Kincaid adds another dimension at TE.  The depth at WR is better though our disappointing #2 remains the same.  If our QB stays healthy, we'll improve at that position, too, since he obviously had UCL problems last year.   

 

The offensive roster is far from perfect, but Dorsey has enough to work with that we ought to put up a lot of points.  

[JerseyBills]

How is Harty a journeyman? 

 

Dude ended his rookie contract with NO and got signed here

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And again, not nearly as impactful. Clearly you know I feel they should’ve done more at WR and invested less at other positions(safety, special teams, and defensive line). 

 

Sometimes things just don't work out.  FAs find higher bidders.  Agents miscommunicate.  Some players don't like certain cities, teams, coaches...  Maybe a WR you want seems uninterested, so you sign someone else at a different position, and then the WR's agent comes back to you when it's too late cap-wise.   It's not like shopping at the store.  There are a lot of variables and what's on the shelf changes almost daily.  

 

On the whole, Beane did well this offseason, but you're right for wishing they did more at wideout.  I don't see any of the pundits ranking our WR duo among the top of the league.  No one ranks our OL  very high either.  When you have a QB like Allen, you want him to have a good bodyguard and good targets.  

 

So if I want to get controversial, I'll question the Von Miller signing.   He's a good guy and a future HOFer.  But that $120,000,000 could have gotten us a good #2WR.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And again, not nearly as impactful. Clearly you know I feel they should’ve done more at WR and invested less at other positions(safety, special teams, and defensive line). 

And again- we started the offseason 20m OVER the cap-  we’ve added several players that will help our team thanks to kicking boatloads of cash down the road.  
 

I wanted hopkins too-  we all realize that you wanted hopkins over everything else and that WR2 was the only thing that this team needed to get us over the top.  We’ve read your 300 posts stating such

[BADOLBILZ]

34 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

How is Harty a journeyman? 

 

Dude ended his rookie contract with NO and got signed here

 

"Technically competent but unable to excel"

 

That's the sports definition of a journeyman. 

 

Like Andre Holmes.   Remember him?   One 600 yard season but ended up playing 7 and averaging only 250 per year.

 

A player can play for a lot of teams and not be a journeyman........Emmanuel Sanders.

 

 

[Toyo321]

Buffalo does not have any consistent game to game impact players on the team on the D side of the ball.

You need to get real on this.  There is no telling how Miller and White are going to be this year.

I don't see White making a significant contribution the way he was prior to his injury.  He is not the same player anymore.

The same with Miller.  There is no way he is going to be 100% opening day, he is older and his age and his injury are

going to play a major factor too. 

 

Poyer and Hyde are getting old, they might have one more good year in them, but they are not the same as they once were.

 

Rehab and practice are one thing, but when you get on the field, when it matters, that is where the performance decline is 

seen first hand.  I am not going to judge anyone, but I am going scrutinize these players level of play and the money they are being paid now. 

 

Because they are not pulling their weight on this team and they are getting paid major money.  Last years loss to Cincy was proof of this.

 

I hate to say it but our D line is not exempt from dreadful play last year.  Last year they played well in some games and had absolutely terrible games too.

Watching our DE's & line not being able to get to the QB last year was like riding a roller coaster.  It was very up and down.  So many missed tackles at the LOS and from the linebackers too,  mainly Edmunds and all of his blown tackles.

 

I really hop McD can do something with the D this year, it will be on his shoulders if this D sinks or swims.

 

I am very sceptical about the D this year,  especially McD having to perform double duty.  It seems that this is just recipe for disaster & with him.

 

All the teams QB's in our division are better or getting better this year.  Not getting pressure on the QB is going to be an issue this year.  We will wait and see.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Toyo321

[harmonkillebrew]

Take J Allen out of the mix and we're middle of the pack

He elevates the entire roster in ways only a couple of QBs can (Mahomes, ....)

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Analysis of the investment in the OL that does not include the fact that we have Dawkins and Morse as high paid, relatively young, established starters, is misleading. 

 

Every single one of Beane’s second rounders could’ve been All-Pros and we would have still been worse off if we didn’t have Allen. 
 

It was quite possibly the best pick in Bills history.

 

We were talking about the draft, so staying within that context, no, it's not misleading.  Furthermore, 2 OL-men do not a complete OL make.  

 

Furthermore, Dawkins predated Beane.  

 

A lot of things "could" have happened.  

 

 

[TC in St. Louis]

11 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, that's the narrative anyway.  I would question whether we've improved at RB, CB, Safety or even held steady at LB.  Singletary was more versatile than Harris has ever been in a season, he also averaged more YPC.  Whether a bruiser 2-down three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust type RB is an improvement remains to be seen.  Our CBs weren't good last season, so improvement is relative there, we could improve but still have a very average unit.  Safety depends largely upon the injury statuses of both Poyer and Hyde as they age further into their back 9s.  At LB Floyd is a situational player and we have no idea how MLB is going to look right now.  

 

 

I'd take this year's RB room over last year's.  Cornerback....reports are that T White is back to his old self, and we now have Benford, Elam entering the second year, absolutely better than when they started, with Dane Jackson in the fold as well.  Safety?  Well, you gotta count the players that are here right now.  Hyde, Poyer, Hamlin, Taylor Rapp.  I don't know how the inside linebackers will perform, but I get the feeling that McDermott has a plan for them.  

 

But, it's just an opinion.  We'll see.  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

We were talking about the draft, so staying within that context, no, it's not misleading.  Furthermore, 2 OL-men do not a complete OL make.  

 

Furthermore, Dawkins predated Beane.  

 

A lot of things "could" have happened.  

 

 

Was Josh Allen arguably the best pick in Bills history as it relates to winning football games, yes or no?

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

IMO they’ve mismanaged the WR position the last two offseasons(arguably three) so your simply just making excuses for them… it’s just a blind spot with McBeane… probably going back to their Carolina days I just don’t think they value the position all that much… specifically when your emphasizing RBs over them in a passing league… wouldn’t surprise me if it held them back again next season especially with an injury to one of their starters or Kincaid with a slow start to his career. 

McD is so conservative and cautious by nature, I just can't imagine him giving Kincaid huge opportunity to go wild, especially early in the season.  Expect him to be eased into the picture painfully slowly and him arriving late.

 

I see this year as a regression relative to last.   Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

[PBF81]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Was Josh Allen arguably the best pick in Bills history as it relates to winning football games, yes or no?

 

Quit trolling.

 

The discussion that I was having with someone was re: resources put into the OL, relatively speaking.  If you want to change it, fine, just direct it to the person or people you want to have it with.  Answering obvious questions isn't something I'm interested in.

 

WTH are you talking about otherwise?  

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by PBF81

[hondo in seattle]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:14 AM, Nextmanup said:

McD is so conservative and cautious by nature, I just can't imagine him giving Kincaid huge opportunity to go wild, especially early in the season.  Expect him to be eased into the picture painfully slowly and him arriving late.

 

I see this year as a regression relative to last.   Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

 

I don't think we'll match last year's 13-3 record.  I think we overachieved a bit in the regular season last year, given all the key injuries we had.  And we're facing a tougher schedule this year.

But I do think, barring significant injuries, we'll field a better team.  And that bodes well - hopefully - for the playoffs.  

[Jerry Jabber]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:24 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Article is part of ESPN+ https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/37892244/2023-season-roster-rankings-starting-lineups-all-32-nfl-teams

 

1. Chiefs

2. Eagles

3. Buffalo Bills

 

Strongest unit: Safety. Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer have been nothing short of elite since teaming up in Buffalo in 2017. Both are 32 years old and missed substantial time in 2022, so perhaps a slip in play could be in store. But Buffalo will have a healthy Damar Hamlin and newcomer Taylor Rapp (who played 90% of the Rams' defensive snaps in 2022) as quality depth. -- Clay

 

Weakest unit: Wide receiver depth. Stefon Diggs is elite, but No. 2 WR Gabe Davis was limited to a situational deep-threat role for most of 2022. Davis is back, but Cole Beasley, Isaiah McKenzie and Jamison Crowder are gone and will be "replaced" by journeymen Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield and Day 3 fliers Khalil Shakir and Justin Shorter. Buffalo will need a big rookie season from versatile tight end Dalton Kincaid. -- Clay

 

X factor for 2023: Safeties Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde. Two years ago they fueled the league's best defense, but in 2022 they combined for just 14 games played. Both are up in there in age, but do they have one more strong season left in them? -- Walder

 

Nonstarter to know: WR Deonte Harty. In 2021, Harty was efficient with a 30% target rate and a 2.9 yards per route run that trailed only those of Cooper Kupp, Deebo Samuel and Davante Adams. Injuries limited him in 2022, but those numbers still have me intrigued. -- Walder

 

4. Dolphins

Glad to see others feel the same way I do about the depth at WR. 

[DCofNC]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:26 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

No objections for that. They are. Harty is on his 2nd team. Sherfield his fourth. But I don't see that as a negative.

 

By that definition Beasley (Bills were his 2md team), John Brown (Bills were his 3rd in his first run), Crowder (Bills 3rd team) were journeymen as well. In fact, more players then not in this day and age would fall under "journeymen" label.

The term Journeyman is one used in the trades to indicate you are of proficiency at the basics of your trade, not a master, not a rookie.  It’s a term to say, you are serviceable as an average expectation at your job.  It is not one to say you have taken a “journey”, as in many teams, to be where you are. 
 

One does not need to go to many teams to be  a Journeyman, as you are incorrectly trying to make it seem.  These players are, in the present terms, a JAG or Just Another Guy.  They are not poor, they are not special.

On 6/30/2023 at 11:06 PM, ScottLaw said:

IMO they’ve mismanaged the WR position the last two offseasons(arguably three) so your simply just making excuses for them… it’s just a blind spot with McBeane… probably going back to their Carolina days I just don’t think they value the position all that much… specifically when your emphasizing RBs over them in a passing league… wouldn’t surprise me if it held them back again next season especially with an injury to one of their starters or Kincaid with a slow start to his career. 

God help them if Diggs goes down, season over.