newcam2012 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The losses in the playoffs under McBean are too small of a sample size at this point (as our the wins). He's 4-3 since Allen became elite in 2020. In basketball it's more of a fair argument that a great regular season coach can't get it done in the playoffs because it's a seven game series. If a bad break bounces your way or you have an off day you still have six games to win four. If your the better team and lose four out of seven coaching changes should be made even if that coach had a great regular season. Single elimination in the NFL makes for great playoff games but they often will let the worse team advance. Which is why the best shot for a Super Bowl is simply getting a playoff spot year after year hoping you can cash in on one of those lottery tickets. I know this same argument has been hashed out on this thread ad nauseum but the basketball comparison doesn't hold water imo. Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ... Even in college football it took Harbaugh five years just to beat Ohio State. There was tremendous pressure to can him but Michigan's patience eventually was rewarded. We only have five years (not six) of playoff experience to draw on over McDermott and he's 4-5. If he was 0-5 or 1-5 then he should be shown the door. I strongly believe that you can get better at your job and McDermott has shown me enough growth as a head coach over the years that I believe he'll figure it out next post season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Dr. Who said: Alright, done talking to you. They've been a disappointment in the playoffs in general. You think differently, that's your business. So it’s brought up to you that they’ve made it past the wildcard round and now you don’t wanna play anymore Sorry if your feelings are hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Section 122 says: "The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams." That's not underachieving in their mind. Yet, you say quite the opposite talking about single elimination games and the underdog has better chances to win. Sure the NBA and NFL format is different and you make a valid counter argument. Nevertheless, I stand by the premise of my statement which is good coaches get relieved of their duties. If you will, maybe the college football arena is a better example. Lastly, is six years of playoff experience a small sample size? Many solid coaches wont sniff that. I'd argue it's more than enough to make a solid evaluation and an informed decision. Thus far, McD has been vastly out coached, out schemed, and out prepared come playoff time. Not sure how an unbiased football fan can't see this. What has he done in the playoffs that you can say wow McD and his coaching staff are on point? For me, it's the game plan when they faced Lamar. That was far too long to be awed or impressed. With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ... Absolutely demolishing the Pats. They were so on point that I got cut and bled out onto my couch at home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 22 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Even in college football it took Harbaugh five years just to beat Ohio State. There was tremendous pressure to can him but Michigan's patience eventually was rewarded. We only have five years (not six) of playoff experience to draw on over McDermott and he's 4-5. If he was 0-5 or 1-5 then he should be shown the door. I strongly believe that you can get better at your job and McDermott has shown me enough growth as a head coach over the years that I believe he'll figure it out next post season. "I believe he'll figure it out next post season." That says it all right there. Hope you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, newcam2012 said: "I believe he'll figure it out next post season." That says it all right there. Hope you are right. I mean. I do have a time machine fwiw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Absolutely demolishing the Pats. They were so on point that I got cut and bled out onto my couch at home. That was fun to watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 52 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: So it’s brought up to you that they’ve made it past the wildcard round and now you don’t wanna play anymore Sorry if your feelings are hurt I know they have advanced beyond the Wild Card round, but they have not consistently done well in the playoffs. They need to do better or they will be a disappointment in terms of the potential of the talent on the team. That is my "global" sense of it and your petty jibes don't alter a thing. I don't mind dialogue with folks who disagree with me. I do mind interacting with individuals of your temperament. My feelings are not hurt. I am annoyed by your attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: We talked about it a lot during the drought…the 1st coach to break the drought would be so revered that they would be getting a blank check on their time in buffalo. It’s Buffalo, baby! you knew it was coming. It cAme. Now we roll with it. Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead? ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round? Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.” We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress. This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I know they have advanced beyond the Wild Card round, but they have not consistently done well in the playoffs. They need to do better or they will be a disappointment in terms of the potential of the talent on the team. That is my "global" sense of it and your petty jibes don't alter a thing. I don't mind dialogue with folks who disagree with me. I do mind interacting with individuals of your temperament. My feelings are not hurt. I am annoyed by your attitude. Everybody wants to make the Super Bowl just because people think that McDermott has done a good job doesn’t mean that we don’t know that we haven’t made it all the way 2 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead? ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round? Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.” We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress. This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate. You are exactly one of those posters that I am talking about. Do you think that progress is linear You mess with this coaching and we could easily go backwards because they would bring in their own schemes. They would have to be learned all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, newcam2012 said: With respect, what makes you think McD can lead this team to a SB appearence? What does he bring to the table come post season? Is it scheme? Poise? Experience? Game planning? Game time adjustments? Game preparation? Xs and Os?, motivation?, optimism? hope for the better? ... That's a question that I keep asking myself. The only answers provided are "stability" and "consistency." Well, I'm not sure we need to be more consistent, rather, we need to break the current mold and exceed its output come playoff time. As to "stability," WTH does that even mean other than a feel good term for what in essence ultimately seems to translate to doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. Once again, we had the 2021 Chiefs' playoff game won, and likely would have beaten the Rams in the Super Bowl for our first Championship and Lombardi trophy. The one single person that prevented it was the one that everyone's placing their faith in. He singlehandedly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That's not even disputable, yet people simply ignore it as if it's entirely irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 10:05 AM, JGMcD2 said: This just isn’t true 🤦🏻 And his sage wisdom comes with 250ish posts here on TBD........good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Everybody wants to make the Super Bowl just because people think that McDermott has done a good job doesn’t mean that we don’t know that we haven’t made it all the way You are exactly one of those posters that I am talking about. Do you think that progress is linear You mess with this coaching and we could easily go backwards because they would bring in their own schemes. They would have to be learned all over again. Honestly, with Allen & Diggs alone, and with increased utilization of a running game that we are bottom-dwelling in, I fail to see how most coaches wouldn't make the playoffs regularly. As to the regular season record and seed, who cares. The entire isn't isn't the regular season, which by implication you cite as the seeming standard from which not to regress. Otherwise, no, I don't possibly see how we would do worse in the playoffs. IMO Saleh, McDaniel, Belichick, all, to start, would have won us a Championship in 2021. Think otherwise, but in response to your question, "do I think progress is linear," apart from not really understanding what you're asking, I think that there's been zero pattern of improvement regarding coaching on McD's watch, none, nada, even as Allen's gotten better every season, or perhaps particularly in light of that. If I understand you correctly, you're implying that there's not constant improvement from season to season. But there most certainly should be a trend upward in general if there truly is improvement, even if only in the 2-steps forward, 1-step backwards mode. This whole "made the playoffs" stuff is superficiality at its finest. Apart from the New England game, you cannot name one playoff game of the other 8 whereby both the O and D showed up and both brought their A-game. And in that game we were facing a rookie QB with receivers that would have qualified as our depth WRs, and coached by a coach that also has zero wherewithal as to how offenses are efficiently run, so why would that even have been significant in this way. That's problematic for any coach that's 6 seasons deep with an ever worsening record of playoff futility. I can see the argument if we hammered Skylar Thompson's Fins, in our own house, and then played a tight game down to the wire vs. Cincy by simply lost, but the opposite is true, Skylar Thompson nearly beat Josh Allen, IN Buffalo, and Cincy handed us our a$$e$. Our last playoff game prior to that, we had the AFC won and could have prematurely celebrated our Lombardi, but McD singlehandedly gave the game away. So upon what do we place out future playoff hopes on? It's anything but improvement. Fans continually crying about not having the talent is wearing pretty thin. I mean what, we need an All-Pro roster to win a Super Bowl? That'd be absurd. We have the best QB by a country mile in the history of this franchise, and we cannot advance past the Divisional Round more than once, while giving the season away on a silver platter immediately following that, and which Levy's team did 5 times in his first seven seasons. It's going to be an interesting season to be sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 I’m genuinely excited to see what McD can do on the defense and what a year 2 Dorsey can do. They both deserved the extension, this team with Josh Allen under this leadership will always be in the hunt. They just got to get over that hump. It took Andy Reid 11-12 seasons making the playoffs to win a SB. He was known at one time for not being able to take a team all the way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 6 hours ago, Einstein said: Wow. This speaks volumes. Please elaborate kind sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 14 minutes ago, Radar said: Please elaborate kind sir. You would rather be the bridesmaid for a long time but never the bride… I just don’t understand that rational. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerstAusGosheim Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Magox said: It took Andy Reid 11-12 seasons making the playoffs to win a SB. No, it took Patrick Mahomes. The greatest QB of this generation – which McNabb wasn't. This whole...don't give up on Sean, just look at Andy line of thinking, is stupid. It's Patrick Mahomes, the guy Sean gave to Andy. If that doesn't happen, Andy is still just old Andy. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Well, it's comforting to see that nothing has changed on the board during my break. The way I see it, Terry Pegula owns the team and seems satisfied (for the near future) in Beane and McDermott. I kind of feel the same way. For all the fans that hate the move, I can't change your minds, so I won't try. Just a comment on some of the points made in this thread. Andy Reid did take all those seasons to win a SB. Maybe it's only because he has an elite QB. I'm of the opinion the Mahomes could win without Reid as long as he had a decent OC. Just my opinion and I'm not taking anything away from Andy. It's true that Sean Payton won his only SB in his 4th year. It has been followed by never winning another for 11 seasons WITH an ELITE QB. so, if the criteria for HCs is they must win in the first X number of years, what's the criteria of these ELITE HCs who have won only 1 SB for consecutive SB misses before they are retreads or "one hit wonders"? Something to ponder. All that matters is this season Beane and McDermott are running the show. I'm going to watch to see how they and the players do. Go Bills! 1 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, PBF81 said: Good point, but what, accompanied by fans so worried about "returning to the past" that they're perfectly willing to forego improvement to achieve the ultimate prize, for fear that what, they won't win the division instead? ... or "make the playoffs" so that we can be embarassed in the WC or D round? Ben Franklin once said ... “Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.” We have a fanbase today that appears to be afraid of growth and progress. This team's efforts at "growth and progress" are limited to roster moves, which is unfortunate. Buffalo as a Sports Town has no Hardware. We have no titles. No established championship culture. So the fans of Buffalo, we have no great standard of the past to hold the modern teams to. Not that holding modern teams to last teams is some guarantee receipt for success. But it does expose that our fans and our community doesn’t really have any experience in recognizing when winning isn’t really as successful as it could be otherwise. which probably (if they all don’t get much better and win) will lead to Bills current regime being here much longer than they should. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninMinn. Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 High aspirations low expectations. Formula for a peaceful Buffalo fan experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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