The Cincy game & its affect on how we view the team

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Jim said:

So idk if Minnesota fits in here, but Von had a huge sack on third down that for all intents and purposes should’ve put that game away. Unfortunately our recently re-signed superstar Cam Lewis thought an interception would be cooler than just knocking the ball away and winning the game. 

 

OK, so what?  You're still spinning here. 

 

We still gave up 33 points and 481 yards, 334 passing and 147 rushing on about 6 YPC.  

 

So because of what you said that's good or excusable?  
 

Stay focused on what the crux of our disagreement is.   

[Dopey]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

 

All teams have a bit of that.  KC almost lost to Jax.  If Huntley didn't fumble at the goal-line, Cincy wouldn't have gotten past the 1st round.

 

I don't disagree that the Bills struggles in the last month or so, but there were some extenuating circumstances.

 

Towards the end of the season the Chiefs beat the Texans by 6 points , in OT. Beat the broncos by 3 and 6 points respectively. Not exactly killing it. We were on a 8 game winning streak before the loss to Cincy. In that streak, we out scored our opponents 207-137. That’s almost 9 points a game.The vocal negative Nancies forget this is the NFL and winning by more than a TD per game isn’t struggling. Even without the extenuating circumstances. What fan wouldn’t want that from their team? Oh yeah, the VOCAL negative Nancies. Just because they keep yelling it, doesn’t make it true. Don’t let them change your opinion. 

[JMM]

1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:

 

Yeah, my ignore list is filled with those people.

 

Last season was tough, don't get me wrong. It felt like destiny that we were going to overcome all of this and win it all. And then we didn't. The Dolphins game was unexplainably close with a 3rd string QB and then the Bengals game happened. It left everybody confused. "Burning it all down" is the fall-back mechanism for some. They're not tough or realists like they want you to think, they're just "runners". They run when things get tough. Then blow smoke in your face so you don't realize they're quitters. 

 

I think we just ran out of juice. The human mind has limits. We overcame most of them last year. And then the hardest one of all hit (Hamlin) and we had a little juice left, but it ran out quick. 

 

Compare to the Chiefs. Compare Allen's adversity this year to Mahomes limping on a bum leg in the playoffs while the rest of his team stepped up and defenses left Kelce wide open. One is not like the other. I think people want to compare in a vacuum because it's easy, but it's not easy, and that is why certain people always seem to make money on the stock market and others never seem to. The ability to see these complexities in a simplified way is tough.

 

What happened is clear to me:

Bills - Great team that dealt with all-time level adversity and just ran out of gas.

Chiefs - Great team that dealt with some adversity and had many lucky breaks. 

 

Again, these things balance themselves out. Bills will be luckier next year and the Chiefs and Bengals will be unluckier. And when that happens, you bet on the team that has proven they can overcome adversity again and again. 

Looking back,  it's almost amazing they went 13-3. And the Miami playoff game a bit misleading,  easily could and probably should have been a blowout at half. They were spent emotionally though no doubt. Cincinnati had a tremendous emotional advantage, but they were the better team that day and physically dominated us. It is what it is. The Bills are still a top 5 team on paper right now. We could flame out next year and not even make the playoffs.  We ALSO could just as easily win it all. Not many teams can realistically say that. I'm looking forward to a season where we don't have all the crazy expectations and I think the team and especially Josh is going to have a huge chip on his shoulder. We shall see. Still think we have a bright future and will win one, if not two SB with Allen.

 

[Airseven]

Plenty of obvious issues with the team well before the Cincy game, but that game crystallized - it was the hard slap across the face where even the most ardent deniers had to face reality.
 

Of course now, with time, some fans are right back to thinking the OL is good to go among other wishful thinking.😆

[ganesh]

On 3/19/2023 at 2:24 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There’s just no way to think we can beat them now, until we see it.  Both times we saw them last season, our defense was on skates. Zero answers. The 1 saving grace is Fraizer being gone. If we ran back the same defense, it was going to be a very helpless feeling. At least now you think it can be different. But again, I’ll have to see us beat them before I know they can.

Why blame the defense only, I don't think the offense did any justice by scoring FGs in the Red Zone.

[The Red King]

Let me sum this up.  OP maintained that any and all current negative feelings and evaluations are the direct result of the Cincy game and only the Cincy game.  The replies here prove that as patently false.  A lot of people here saw and spoke about the cracks in the foundation, and were blasted for pointing them out.

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Plenty of obvious issues with the team well before the Cincy game, but that game crystallized - it was the hard slap across the face where even the most ardent deniers had to face reality.
 

Of course now, with time, some fans are right back to thinking the OL is good to go among other wishful thinking.😆

Every team has issues, even KC. People who have positive vibes about the franchise are not deniers. It’s just our opinion of the franchise. No slap to my face. Sucks for you you feel you got slapped in the face over a loss, but what is the he need to dump on positive posts? I, for one and not going down the 💩 hole some of you live in. It smells like ass in that place. Come out and get some sunshine. There’s a wonderful world out here. It’s ok for some to like what the franchise is doing. It really is ok. 

[ganesh]

17 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Plenty of obvious issues with the team well before the Cincy game, but that game crystallized - it was the hard slap across the face where even the most ardent deniers had to face reality.
 

Of course now, with time, some fans are right back to thinking the OL is good to go among other wishful thinking.😆

It would be good to list what the "Plenty of obvious issues" would be so that we can be objective.

 

I agree that the OL requires the upgrade;  so does all teams.  The Bengals played 3 backups against us.  I mean their talent level would have been below our starters right...but they played lights out...may be the scheme had something to do with it. 

 

The team went 13-3 in regular season...but after the Hamlin injury, they had too many things to overcome emotionally...

 

They had an odd year, where they had to dig themselves out of snow to travel to a game, were stuck in Chicago on Christmas and had to fly into Rochester; and the Hamlin injury in Cincinnati.  Not to forget that Knox lost his brother at the beginning of the season and their owner went into a real bad medical situation .  

 

The entire secondary was decimated at different times and so did the DL.   There was also a revolving door at the OL due to injuries.   It is hard to overcome so many things in the NFL and the team still finished 13-3 and lost close games to the Jets, Miami and Minnesota, with the Jets game being the only one where I thought they were bullied by the Jets defense. 

[letsgoteam]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:10 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

 

Now that we've had several weeks to process last season, I think it comes down to a series of unfortunate events. 

 

•Micah out for the season

•Josh's elbow injury 

▪︎ Von out for the season

• Damar almost dying

 

....then factor in blizzards,  shootings, Kim almost dying.  Name me one organization that could absorb all that and have the emotional capacity to advance.  There isn't one.  We won't take a step back as long as this team collectively takes a "deep breath". The chaos of 2022 will probably never be duplicated again.

 

The Damar play, if that doesn't happen, could have changed the season. Now, everyone likes to say that the Bills were going to lose that game regardless (based off of the playoff game, but weather conditions were much better that night in Cinn then the playoff game. Also, the Bills marched right down the field on their drive. Maybe the Bills win a shootout that night. If they would have won, they would have been the #1 seed, playing Jacksonville in the Divisional Round, off of a bye. If they win, they play KC or Cinn after having to play against each other.

 

Maybe what should be said is whatever team does not have to play one another in the divisional is the one that will goto the Super Bowl. Which is what has happened the last two years.

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

It wasn't the last month or so though. It was since October. 

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The co-owner was ill when the Bills were smoking the Rams on national TV to open the season and embarrassing the Titans on MNF. The game being moved to Detroit due to snow had zero effect on how the season played out or the loss in the playoffs and that's a good thing, considering we play in Buffalo.

 

The ONLY extenuating circumstance even remotely plausible is Damar.

 

But even that's nonsense considering athletes often have their best performances after loved ones die. Remember Tiger Woods winning the major after his Dad's passing? Allen throwing for 3(?) TD's after his grandma passing? Brett Favre throwing for 4 TD's after his father passed? etc.

 

The extenuating circumstance stuff is just excuses. The team hadn't looked like a top 5 team since October. The playoff loss really wasn't all that surprising considering their play the 2-3 months preceding it.

 

He tries agreeing and it’s not enough. What a drama queen. Mad, much?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Why blame the defense only, I don't think the offense did any justice by scoring FGs in the Red Zone.

I’m just aggravated with that. This team is never once allowed to have an off day offensively. The defense can get steamrolled by every accurate QB and physical run team. Nobody cares. This offense avg like 28 points a game for 4 straight years and all everyone does is complain about the weapons. The defense is our problem. It’s been the problem. It’s asking way too much of this offense to put up 30 every single game. It’s not sustainable and it’s not right honestly. I’m blaming the defense. When you are getting zero resistance on every drive defensively, it makes the offense press.

[Airseven]

55 minutes ago, ganesh said:

It would be good to list what the "Plenty of obvious issues" would be so that we can be objective.

Terrible OL. Everyone struggling outside of perhaps Morse. No leverage, no push at LOS. Brown a turnstile. Saffold a shell. Allen reverting to his mean. Inaccurate, erratic, likely injured. Davis and McKenzie both non-factors. No support for Diggs. Knox stuck inline to help the porous OL or otherwise not utilized in pass game. Play-calling issues need not be elaborated upon here. No pass rush. No replacement for Miller. Epenesa a ghost. Oliver and Settle both non-factors. White slow and ineffective. Elam apparently benched at one point. Jackson lacking physicality. No replacement for Hyde. Poyer breaking down with an assortment of injuries. Lack of scheme aggression need not be elaborated upon here. These are off the top of my head to give you a fair reply. I’m sure I’m forgetting something sorry.

[BMWR100RT]

There is a lot of luck involved in winning championships. Injuries, bad calls, off field incidents, etc. can derail.

 

I am fairly convinced the Damar Hamlin injury and the emotional toll it took was too much for this team. I personally didn't sleep for all the days before the miracle and I'm not his friend/teammate.

 

I just can't believe the focus required at the top level wasn't effected. The talent was able to overcome the lethargic play until Cincinnati.  

[JohnNord]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How much more simple can I make this?  Coaching staff's job is to have their playoff team mentally and physically ready for a playoff game. Plus they have to have a cogent game plan.

 

None of that was apparent that day.  It wasn't just a string of boneheaded player errors.   These guys were not properly prepared....and you conclude that this had nothing to do with coaching?

 

lol, ok--well argued.

You’re not understanding my point.  I’m not saying that the coaches are without blame.  I am saying that EVERYONE deserves their blame.

 

You want to try to say that everything is on coaching - which is very much a flawed argument.  The reason I bring up Edmunds and Oliver is a perfect example of this.  These are two players that you would not expect to get dominated by backup lineman.  Yet…watch the tape.  
 

By trying to scapegoat the entire loss on coaching, you are giving a pass to several players who just simply played small in big moments.  
 

Most people that aren’t ultra emotional about the loss and can think pragmatically understand why your argument and mind self is tremendously flawed.  

[mjt328]

Real problems with this team starting showing up back in early October.  

We keep hearing all the excuses (weather, Hamlin, etc.), but the alarm was sounding well before then.  A lot of fans just chose to sweep those issues under the rug, because the Bills managed to barely scrape by each week.  

 

Things didn't really change after getting smashed by the Bengals.

 

Those who are more optimistic still see the Bills as legitimate Super Bowl contenders, and think our playoff performance was just a fluke.

Some of us still believe the Bills have major roster flaws, and have done almost nothing to upgrade the roster since the season ended.  

 

[Don Otreply]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:44 PM, TheBrownBear said:

The loss was demoralizing for sure, but part of me is still convinced we wore the wrong cleats and, combined with the wrong game plan for the weather, were essentially playing on skates all day.  I don't believe we are two touchdowns worse than the Bengals.

   Well, the Bengals were beating us soundly in the first game before it was called, and did so again in the second game, so…, yeah, right now they are are coached better and the players are playing better, is what it is.
 

   Could we next time around have better coaching/scheming, and play better? Yes this can happen, but history says that our coaches lack of desire to adapt/recognize the need come the postseason will continue to be the root cause of our early departure from the playoffs, the only counter to this likelihood is if Josh and the guys play lights out in every single playoff game…,  

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Meatloaf63]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:11 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Biggest game of the year and they came out flat, with no energy and poorly prepared. 
 

 

Explain the same look that happened in Cincinnati, we’re they just flat both games?

[damj]

Understood there was alot going on last season that the team had to deal with... Still the Cinncy exposed some weaknesses in our offensive and defensive approaches. If we adjust, we'll be fine, if not, we'll struggle to beat like Cinncy that use such a heavy short passing attack 

[ScottLaw]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

You’re not understanding my point.  I’m not saying that the coaches are without blame.  I am saying that EVERYONE deserves their blame.

 

You want to try to say that everything is on coaching - which is very much a flawed argument.  The reason I bring up Edmunds and Oliver is a perfect example of this.  These are two players that you would not expect to get dominated by backup lineman.  Yet…watch the tape.  
 

By trying to scapegoat the entire loss on coaching, you are giving a pass to several players who just simply played small in big moments.  
 

Most people that aren’t ultra emotional about the loss and can think pragmatically understand why your argument and mind self is tremendously flawed.  

I think the majority of the blame should go on clashing staff… it’s their job to have these guys prepared and ready emotionally, mentally, and physically…. They clearly were not…. And the Bengals very clearly had a much better strategy. It was a straight ass kicking in all phases. 

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, Airseven said:

Terrible OL. Everyone struggling outside of perhaps Morse. No leverage, no push at LOS. Brown a turnstile. Saffold a shell. Allen reverting to his mean. Inaccurate, erratic, likely injured. Davis and McKenzie both non-factors. No support for Diggs. Knox stuck inline to help the porous OL or otherwise not utilized in pass game. Play-calling issues need not be elaborated upon here. No pass rush. No replacement for Miller. Epenesa a ghost. Oliver and Settle both non-factors. White slow and ineffective. Elam apparently benched at one point. Jackson lacking physicality. No replacement for Hyde. Poyer breaking down with an assortment of injuries. Lack of scheme aggression need not be elaborated upon here. These are off the top of my head to give you a fair reply. I’m sure I’m forgetting something sorry.

Don’t apologize, keep going. It’s what you do.