Here come the restructures

[Mango]

1 hour ago, BBFL said:

So ideally where, in a perfect setting, would you be taking space from? Looking at the contracts for the next few years I concur that tight is the appropriate phrase. Not much wiggle room without rearranging numbers that sit atop of the pile. 

In a perfect setting I wouldn’t have signed Von to begin with. It was a risk to win in 2022 at the expense of the longevity of the roster. 

 

At some point we have to reset the roster, put ourselves in a place to re-sign our own, and draft better. Miller’s contract to me, post ACL was off limits. 
 

Extend Daquan Jones, restructure Allen, Dawkins, and maybe Milano. Sometimes you have to live with the roster you build for a year or two and hit the ground running with a little bit of a reset. 
 

I don’t think restructuring Miller gets us a SB this year. And I think it makes it more difficult for us to win one 2,3,4 years down the line.

[Simon Says]

18 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I will say this about Beane, instead of spending right up to the cap, he would be wise to dump/trade away players who are not in their future plans. It would bode well for him if he had multiple extra picks in the 2023 & 2024 Drafts respectively. It keeps our Super Bowl window open long term and his job safe.

Trading requires a trade partner and you can't assume there's a match for every player you want to dump. This year's draft is crucial and I expect a trade down or two. How about Oliver to Houston for both of their 3rd rounders? He might want to to go home and the Texans could use help on their DLine.

32 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

its not like any of this was not expected. The unexpected will be Dawkins, White, Digs, Milano. 

What would be "unexpected" about those 4?

17 hours ago, cba fan said:

what many forget is most contracts now come with restructure language team can invoke at any time. Simple notice to players. agents, banks, payroll dept of team, then money payouts are commenced per new restructure schedule.

 

And player gets money sooner, so they are happy too. 

 

So no time-consuming negotiations and team can wait until last minutes to activate them depending on what moves come up as ops present themselves as FA runs.

i see just the opposite. He always drafts players they interview or bring in for visits. And telegraphs need picks in first round every year. Just like most do.

I wonder about tax conseuences?

17 hours ago, cba fan said:

what many forget is most contracts now come with restructure language team can invoke at any time. Simple notice to players. agents, banks, payroll dept of team, then money payouts are commenced per new restructure schedule.

 

And player gets money sooner, so they are happy too. 

 

So no time-consuming negotiations and team can wait until last minutes to activate them depending on what moves come up as ops present themselves as FA runs.

i see just the opposite. He always drafts players they interview or bring in for visits. And telegraphs need picks in first round every year. Just like most do.

I wonder about tax conseuences?

17 hours ago, cba fan said:

what many forget is most contracts now come with restructure language team can invoke at any time. Simple notice to players. agents, banks, payroll dept of team, then money payouts are commenced per new restructure schedule.

 

And player gets money sooner, so they are happy too. 

 

So no time-consuming negotiations and team can wait until last minutes to activate them depending on what moves come up as ops present themselves as FA runs.

i see just the opposite. He always drafts players they interview or bring in for visits. And telegraphs need picks in first round every year. Just like most do.

I wonder about tax conseuences?

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Aw, come on.

 

Yes, it's flexible. And for owners who don't mind mortgaging the future, very flexible.

 

But no, you really can't have as much space as you want this year, much less in the future. Real quick, can you point out the way to get us, say $100M on the cap this year? Can't be done. If you turn over every rock and twig, you could get to around $80M, but it would leave us with very little flexibility next year. 

 

The credit card analogy is right on target. Yeah, I could use my cards and apply for a bunch more and stretch them all to the limit and get myself a Lambo. But doing that would mean I'd better get used to major lifestyle cuts elsewhere, and at some point it might become necessary to sell that Lambo used to handle some more urgent needs.

 

The reason Jalen Ramsey (and possibly Bobby Wags as well) is available is the Rams are having to throw the life jackets and the seats out the doors to try to save fuel. They cut Floyd at the cost of $19M in dead cap, even though it only saves them $3M on the cap. Why? Because they were well above the cap in 2024 as well as 2023. Taking all the dead money this year means Floyd won't cost them money in 2024, but Floyd was really good for them.

 

 

Lol, the reason that Ramsey and Wagner are going and gone is because the Rams realize that hey aren’t good enough!! If the Rams won 13 games last year, they, along with Robinson would still be there!!

 

You don’t need the number to say “$100M” you need to be able to minimize the cap hits within there. The Bills gave Von Miller 6 years and $120M. They took a 2022 cap hit of $5.15M.
 

It isn’t real!! I’ve been preaching that for a decade in here. I used to see LOTS of resistance. Now, the overwhelming majority of people are in agreement. You can sign, and keep, pretty much whoever you want and need. It is a matter of “is the juice worth the squeeze?” The Bills could EASILY keep Edmunds, Poyer and Motor if they wanted. They know that they need some changes so are going to allocate resources differently. 

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

There are limits though.  It is real.   The saints have ridiculous amounts of void money in future years.  Why is tyreek hill in Miami?  Why is adams in Las Vegas?  Answer:  the cap is real.   Sure it’s soft and can be manipulated but there are real limits.  

Tyreek is in Miami because they got a haul + space. If they wanted to keep him, they could have. The same goes for Adams. The Packers weren’t good enough with him. They took assets and went in a different direction. It’s not as complicated as some make it out to be.

 

The Bills can EASILY have the space for whomever they want. It’ll just cost more out of pocket now. It’ll hurt future cap years, but like the Saints, you can indefinitely push that out. Instead of biting the bullet and eating Thomas’ big number, they’ll extend him to lessen the blow. 
 

@nedboy7what SPECIFICALLY do you disagree with? Happy to discuss in further depth…

Edited March 11, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[BBFL]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

In a perfect setting I wouldn’t have signed Von to begin with. It was a risk to win in 2022 at the expense of the longevity of the roster. 

 

At some point we have to reset the roster, put ourselves in a place to re-sign our own, and draft better. Miller’s contract to me, post ACL was off limits. 
 

Extend Daquan Jones, restructure Allen, Dawkins, and maybe Milano. Sometimes you have to live with the roster you build for a year or two and hit the ground running with a little bit of a reset. 
 

I don’t think restructuring Miller gets us a SB this year. And I think it makes it more difficult for us to win one 2,3,4 years down the line.

Thanks. Seems like a level headed assessment.  I love Von but that sword to get us to the SB wasn’t one I was hoping the Bills were willing to die on. They were and we live with the hopeful consequences. There was a lot of fans suggesting that the pass rush shouldnt have been the biggest priority going into last off-season, especially with the amount invested and tied up in the defensive line to begin with. 
 

So does that possible minor adjustment/reset to the roster begin next offseason or do they continue rolling the dice without change in roster priority going into 2023-24? One would hope they are at the same gauge of principles the majority of the fan base is at… protect Josh and maximize the elite talent he possesses. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by BBFL

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

In a perfect setting I wouldn’t have signed Von to begin with. It was a risk to win in 2022 at the expense of the longevity of the roster. 

 

At some point we have to reset the roster, put ourselves in a place to re-sign our own, and draft better. Miller’s contract to me, post ACL was off limits. 
 

Extend Daquan Jones, restructure Allen, Dawkins, and maybe Milano. Sometimes you have to live with the roster you build for a year or two and hit the ground running with a little bit of a reset. 
 

I don’t think restructuring Miller gets us a SB this year. And I think it makes it more difficult for us to win one 2,3,4 years down the line.

Seems like he played a huge factor in the win in the road vs KC. How did that pass rush look without him ? The NFL is a this year league. Let’s worry about future years when we have to. The Bills with BB will be a contender for years to come but in particular this year. 

[Trust The Process]

Bills DT Tim Settle agreed to a renegotiated deal for 2023 that reduces his cap charge by about $600K.

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I mean, they have 24 Free Agents. They were always going to have to free up money to replace those bodies and/or bring some back. Whether they'll be able to come up with enough to sign any real big names as upgrades remains to be seen.

This.  We have a lot of holes we need to fill based on players who won’t be back.  Then we still have places we already  needed to seriously upgrade like along the OL and offensive playmakers.

 

If anyone thinks we made these moves to be major players in FA then you’re surely going to be disappointed.  We will be active, because we need bodies, but we most likely won’t be big players at the top of the market.  That cap space needs to be spread around, including signing our draft class.  
 

Our best chance at a significant addition IMHO is via trade where we offload some salary in the acquisition of said player.  For example, I could see us trading Ed Oliver for a WR or OL help, or even for someone to replace guys we may be losing like Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin.  

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Beane never goes into the Draft with a glaring hole in the roster.  He will work free agency like he does every year to fill the holes in the roster and walk into the Draft able to go in any direction.  That's his MO.

 

They did not have a hole when they traded Tyrod to Cleveland and was depending upon getting a QB in draft?

[TheBeaneBandit]

10 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

Bills DT Tim Settle agreed to a renegotiated deal for 2023 that reduces his cap charge by about $600K.

Cool hopefully we hear something official soon. Every little bit helps these days lol

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I agree.

 

Flip side of that is that our OL has had holes every single one of those 6 years listed but we've yet to spend a single first round pick at the position and have only spent one day two pick at the position over those six years I believe. 

 

Yikes!

Agree. For some reason Beane has addressed Oline with free agents. Morse, Williams, Spain, Q, Saffold, and later round projects(Ford being the notable exception). To be fair, though overpaying some of these guys have worked out ok.

Perhaps he believes the oline play in college is so bad and it takes too much time to develop so he has gone the veteran route. That is not really a bad assumption.  

Hope he goes WR then oline 1 and 2 this year. 

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Milano seems like a no brainer.  So would Diggs, unless there really are issues and he wants out. The Bills will have much to consider as to whether to restructure White and Dawkins (especially White).   I would not.

 

If Diggs wants money out of restructure tell him "we do not follow you"  and you will get notice from Bills about it from Bills PR in social meeting channels

[BBFL]

28 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Seems like he played a huge factor in the win in the road vs KC. How did that pass rush look without him ? The NFL is a this year league. Let’s worry about future years when we have to. The Bills with BB will be a contender for years to come but in particular this year. 

The concern is a guy getting top dollar (top 5 at DE) who’s coming into the tail end of his career. He was bought for closing. Would you rather Von be closing an opponents entire season than a regular game? So far out of the 2/3 (yes the deal is 6) years we will have him before likely parting ways, it will have been, depending on your perspective half or a third of them when it actually matters… At this point I’d rather him ride the pine until the snaps absolutely matter and/or playoff time. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by BBFL

[Simon Says]

19 hours ago, BBFL said:

100% agreement. 
 

Dawkins and White are the only viable big cap hit candidates. Really don’t see Milano being restructured; if anything he warrants more money via an extension and we’ll with Diggs being restructured just 2 years ago I find that will be a tough task to ask again. Had we made a Super Bowl or won a Lombardi? Totally different. 

Knox,Morse.....

[BBFL]

10 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

Knox,Morse.....

1 year removed from a deal that put him top 5 $@TE. Ouch. 😬

[Draconator]

1 hour ago, Trust The Process said:

Bills DT Tim Settle agreed to a renegotiated deal for 2023 that reduces his cap charge by about $600K.

 

[cba fan]

17 hours ago, HomeTeam said:

I hope this does not complicate this with Von Miller going forward. It would be nice to be able to get out after year 3 if we wanted to. I never liked that signing tbh. Hope I'm wrong. 

it Von stayed healthy and Daquan Jones also was healthy for Bengals games.....Bills may have won.

[ngbills]

14 minutes ago, Draconator said:

 

Now we will be major free agency players

[cba fan]

16 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

when did that start? i swear i remember kc asking hill to do it 3 years  ago and him publicly proclaiming no

i don't know when it exactly started. But the big deals had it in first. Not all have it in so apparently Hill did not agree to the language. or see below speculation

 

The KC Hill restructure had more details allegedly speculatively KC wanted to add void years which required Hill agreement. see here.....

 

Tyreek Hill turns down restructured contract for K.C. Chiefs (arrowheadaddict.com)

Tyreek Hill turns down restructured contract for K.C. Chiefs.url

Edited March 11, 2023 by cba fan

[RocCityRoller]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

In a perfect setting I wouldn’t have signed Von to begin with. It was a risk to win in 2022 at the expense of the longevity of the roster. 

 

At some point we have to reset the roster, put ourselves in a place to re-sign our own, and draft better. Miller’s contract to me, post ACL was off limits. 
 

Extend Daquan Jones, restructure Allen, Dawkins, and maybe Milano. Sometimes you have to live with the roster you build for a year or two and hit the ground running with a little bit of a reset. 
 

I don’t think restructuring Miller gets us a SB this year. And I think it makes it more difficult for us to win one 2,3,4 years down the line.

^ this fan gets it.

 

Buffalo spent most of Allen's 5 year window avoiding the big splash FA. That was the time to do it. The Miller signing was about 2 seasons too late. Chandler Jones, Mack and Miller all moved in the season or two prior to last one, and no real noise from TBD to do it.

 

The FO preferred bringing in a bunch of also rans and hope to strike lightning rather than get a star or two each off-season, with the exception of Diggs. Even then Diggs was a very good WR, but not a star. The OL is a prefect example of this failed strategy.

 

The best thing this team could do now is clean some house, get younger, draft better and find one solid starter each FA period. Not a star, can't afford it, and not a bunch of Harts and Quessenberrys you hope will luck into starters. Stop using void years for over the hill former stars like Emmanual Sanders.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, the reason that Ramsey and Wagner are going and gone is because the Rams realize that hey aren’t good enough!! If the Rams won 13 games last year, they, along with Robinson would still be there!!

 

You don’t need the number to say “$100M” you need to be able to minimize the cap hits within there. The Bills gave Von Miller 6 years and $120M. They took a 2022 cap hit of $5.15M.
 

It isn’t real!! I’ve been preaching that for a decade in here. I used to see LOTS of resistance. Now, the overwhelming majority of people are in agreement. You can sign, and keep, pretty much whoever you want and need. It is a matter of “is the juice worth the squeeze?” The Bills could EASILY keep Edmunds, Poyer and Motor if they wanted. They know that they need some changes so are going to allocate resources differently. 

Tyreek is in Miami because they got a haul + space. If they wanted to keep him, they could have. The same goes for Adams. The Packers weren’t good enough with him. They took assets and went in a different direction. It’s not as complicated as some make it out to be.

 

The Bills can EASILY have the space for whomever they want. It’ll just cost more out of pocket now. It’ll hurt future cap years, but like the Saints, you can indefinitely push that out. Instead of biting the bullet and eating Thomas’ big number, they’ll extend him to lessen the blow. 
 

@nedboy7what SPECIFICALLY do you disagree with? Happy to discuss in further depth…

Kriby my guy, you are one of my favorite posters here. But I think there is some major middle ground between your “the cap doesn’t matter” and people who think the NFL is a hard cap.

 

I actually think NO is a prime example of the cap mattering. They had a first ballot HoF coach and QB combo, pushed the limits of what was possible with the salary cap. And at the end of the day they were over .500 almost as much as they were at/under it. And they continued to pay that bill through losing seasons to try and right their cap situation.
 

I understand the “one before I die”, but long term I have zero interest in being the New Orleans Saints. Woof. 

4 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

^ this fan gets it.

 

Buffalo spent most of Allen's 5 year window avoiding the big splash FA. That was the time to do it. The Miller signing was about 2 seasons too late. Chandler Jones, Mack and Miller all moved in the season or two prior to last one, and no real noise from TBD to do it.

 

The FO preferred bringing in a bunch of also rans and hope to strike lightning rather than get a star or two each off-season, with the exception of Diggs. Even then Diggs was a very good WR, but not a star. The OL is a prefect example of this failed strategy.

 

The best thing this team could do now is clean some house, get younger, draft better and find one solid starter each FA period. Not a star, can't afford it, and not a bunch of Harts and Quessenberrys you hope will luck into starters. Stop using void years for over the hill former stars like Emmanual Sanders.

I was actually hoping we’d reset a bit last year so that we could keep Edmunds and Poyer this offseason to not create any additional holes as we try and fill voids at OL and WR depth while also trying to get some replacements in house to take over for aging vets.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mango